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Let the pre-Alpha cash shop items flow...

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  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,443
    Tiller said:
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.

    This thread seems to have veered way off topic, however there is some strong misconception that needs to be cleared up

    Your subscription is not RNG based.

    RNG, if I'm not mistaken means Random Number Generated

    In order for your toon to lose any "spirit" (2 days of play time for a pleb and more for nobles) you would have to suffer what is called a "coup de grace". Which is an act taken after your character has been knocked out

    From my understanding you can fight someone and if you lose you are "knocked out" (which does not cost any spirit loss AT ALL). At that point they could, if they wanted, loot only *some* of your possessions. And they could do a "coup de grace" (this act is what causes the spirit loss or loss of max lifespan) in order to rip your soul from your body and send you into the spirit realm. That would give them access to loot more of your items (the exact mechanics on this haven't been hashed out because everything is still in process)

    Most crafters imho would be closer to the 12 month max because they *should* rarely be seeing any kind of combat or suffer spirit loss

    Then you have the reckless adventurer or deviant who loses their spirit quicker than a pissed off girlfriend sending a text

    It's between these demographics of the super careful, and the super risky that you'd see an 8 month median. What the average lifespan *will* be though? Well, only time can tell us that

    One thing is certain though, your lifespan will not be *RNG Based*, it will be 12 months max and shorter depending on the amount of risk you decide to take

    So playing the games combat content is considered super risky? Still absurd. This game's mechanics sound more more like something some random guy on a forum came up with in a drunken stooper late one night then an actual MMO game that should be made. No wonder they had a hard time selling it to investors. It would barely work tied to your character alone, much less your subscription $$.

    Maybe it would work in some single player Indie Greenlight game on Steam, but a mainstream MMO? Harsher mechanics then Rimworld, and I love that game. This might fail hard, and by that it's gonna end up like both versions of Darkfall or Albion Online, but worse. I hate watching games themselves up for failure right out the gate, and looks like this will be one.


  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    Tiller said:
    Tiller said:
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.

    This thread seems to have veered way off topic, however there is some strong misconception that needs to be cleared up

    Your subscription is not RNG based.

    RNG, if I'm not mistaken means Random Number Generated

    In order for your toon to lose any "spirit" (2 days of play time for a pleb and more for nobles) you would have to suffer what is called a "coup de grace". Which is an act taken after your character has been knocked out

    From my understanding you can fight someone and if you lose you are "knocked out" (which does not cost any spirit loss AT ALL). At that point they could, if they wanted, loot only *some* of your possessions. And they could do a "coup de grace" (this act is what causes the spirit loss or loss of max lifespan) in order to rip your soul from your body and send you into the spirit realm. That would give them access to loot more of your items (the exact mechanics on this haven't been hashed out because everything is still in process)

    Most crafters imho would be closer to the 12 month max because they *should* rarely be seeing any kind of combat or suffer spirit loss

    Then you have the reckless adventurer or deviant who loses their spirit quicker than a pissed off girlfriend sending a text

    It's between these demographics of the super careful, and the super risky that you'd see an 8 month median. What the average lifespan *will* be though? Well, only time can tell us that

    One thing is certain though, your lifespan will not be *RNG Based*, it will be 12 months max and shorter depending on the amount of risk you decide to take

    So playing the games combat content is considered super risky? Still absurd. This game's mechanics sound more more like something some random guy on a forum came up with in a drunken stooper late one night then an actual MMO game that should be made. No wonder they had a hard time selling it to investors. It would barely work tied to your character alone, much less your subscription $$.

    Maybe it would work in some single player Indie Greenlight game on Steam, but a mainstream MMO? Harsher mechanics then Rimworld, and I love that game. This might fail hard, and by that it's gonna end up like both versions of Darkfall or Albion Online, but worse. I hate watching games themselves up for failure right out the gate, and looks like this will be one.
    So we agree your lifespan isn't RNG based, great!
    mystichaze
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,572
    Ungood said:
    I only point out any soul can do any skill to dispel confusion. A lot of people reading may not know this and your post didn't include that info so that's why I wanted to point it out
    There is "doing anything" and then there is "better suited to do".  So to avoid any misunderstandings I want to clear up any confusion.   Not all souls will start out being able to do all things equally.   If you work at it you can push a soul in the direction you want by using certain skills.  But of course, if your soul was already pre-disposed to certain traits that would be easier, and faster.

    So if I spend a life as a soldier... in my next life I would be better as a soldier, and if I wanted to be a Blacksmith I could do so and push into new skills, or I could buy a new SoulPack based on Blacksmith and start faster and easier.




    I see you have never played games like this.. 

    I'll give you this clue for free..

    or in your next life.. you can be a blacksmith that is "better" at combat.. and.. well in a game of Open PvP.. let the value of that sink in.
    Sure.  Is this like when you assumed I was some PvP gank-dude?

    So yeah.. you can be a blacksmith that is "better" at combat.  You just will be behind in your Blacksmithing.   Way to focus on an insignificant detail.  Lets change soldier and Blacksmith and make it Alchemist and Blacksmith if that makes it easier for you to follow along.

    Yes, you can take your prior Alchemist and bend them into a Blacksmith... OR you can buy a "Blacksmith Soulpack" with souls pre-disposed to the Blacksmith traits.  There is obviously an advantage to buying a soul pre-disposed to a specific career otherwise there would be no purpose served by selling themed soul-packs.

    Who would have thought we would have all these followups because I said you MIGHT buy a soulpack if you restarted after dropping the game for 6 months.

    Griefers are going to have a field day with some of you.


    Kyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,488
    Ungood said:
    I only point out any soul can do any skill to dispel confusion. A lot of people reading may not know this and your post didn't include that info so that's why I wanted to point it out
    There is "doing anything" and then there is "better suited to do".  So to avoid any misunderstandings I want to clear up any confusion.   Not all souls will start out being able to do all things equally.   If you work at it you can push a soul in the direction you want by using certain skills.  But of course, if your soul was already pre-disposed to certain traits that would be easier, and faster.

    So if I spend a life as a soldier... in my next life I would be better as a soldier, and if I wanted to be a Blacksmith I could do so and push into new skills, or I could buy a new SoulPack based on Blacksmith and start faster and easier.




    I see you have never played games like this.. 

    I'll give you this clue for free..

    or in your next life.. you can be a blacksmith that is "better" at combat.. and.. well in a game of Open PvP.. let the value of that sink in.
    Sure.  Is this like when you assumed I was some PvP gank-dude?

    So yeah.. you can be a blacksmith that is "better" at combat.  You just will be behind in your Blacksmithing.   Way to focus on an insignificant detail.  Lets change soldier and Blacksmith and make it Alchemist and Blacksmith if that makes it easier for you to follow along.

    Yes, you can take your prior Alchemist and bend them into a Blacksmith... OR you can buy a "Blacksmith Soulpack" with souls pre-disposed to the Blacksmith traits.  There is obviously an advantage to buying a soul pre-disposed to a specific career otherwise there would be no purpose served by selling themed soul-packs.

    Who would have thought we would have all these followups because I said you MIGHT buy a soulpack if you restarted after dropping the game for 6 months.

    Griefers are going to have a field day with some of you.


    Some? This is going to be a griefer's paradise.

    Should be fun to watch.
    Slapshot1188

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    edited March 2018
    "And just to get back into the game you need to pony up the $35 (and maybe a $10 SoulPack to make a new character) just to get back into the game"

    Again, I was only adding clarity because most people won't be as knowledgeable about the game as you and I.

    The way it's written to say "and maybe a soul pack to create a new character" wasn't very clear. To someone who doesn't know a lot about the game that could be construed as "needing" to buy a soul pack to create a new character

    I merely added clarity
  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    Also, why not have an Alchy/Smith?

    You'd be able to sell some nice wares!
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,572
    "And just to get back into the game you need to pony up the $35 (and maybe a $10 SoulPack to make a new character) just to get back into the game"

    Again, I was only adding clarity because most people won't be as knowledgeable about the game as you and I.

    The way it's written to say "and maybe a soul pack to create a new character" wasn't very clear. To someone who doesn't know a lot about the game that could be construed as "needing" to buy a soul pack to create a new character

    I merely added clarity
    Sure.  Clear as mud.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,274
    Tiller said:
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.

    This thread seems to have veered way off topic, however there is some strong misconception that needs to be cleared up

    Your subscription is not RNG based.

    RNG, if I'm not mistaken means Random Number Generated

    In order for your toon to lose any "spirit" (2 days of play time for a pleb and more for nobles) you would have to suffer what is called a "coup de grace". Which is an act taken after your character has been knocked out

    From my understanding you can fight someone and if you lose you are "knocked out" (which does not cost any spirit loss AT ALL). At that point they could, if they wanted, loot only *some* of your possessions. And they could do a "coup de grace" (this act is what causes the spirit loss or loss of max lifespan) in order to rip your soul from your body and send you into the spirit realm. That would give them access to loot more of your items (the exact mechanics on this haven't been hashed out because everything is still in process)

    Most crafters imho would be closer to the 12 month max because they *should* rarely be seeing any kind of combat or suffer spirit loss

    Then you have the reckless adventurer or deviant who loses their spirit quicker than a pissed off girlfriend sending a text

    It's between these demographics of the super careful, and the super risky that you'd see an 8 month median. What the average lifespan *will* be though? Well, only time can tell us that

    One thing is certain though, your lifespan will not be *RNG Based*, it will be 12 months max and shorter depending on the amount of risk you decide to take

    Just to chime in- the idea that Crafters won't be targets has to assume they won't leave the safety of their liege's walls.

    Ask EVE miners/traders if they aren't targeted specifically due to their lack of any adequate means of defending themselves.  That's what Crafters will face anytime they leave the safety of their liege's protection.  If the liege can't protect them outside the city/castle/what have you walls, they will be targeted repeatedly as a target of opportunity.

    Defenseless players have always been preyed upon by those with the power to gank them.  This has been a constant throughout the genre's existence, I don't see CoE changing that.  Folks gank in games where they get nothing; the same will happen here, and I'm not convinced the life cost system will do much to deter it.
    Kyleran

    image
  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    Tiller said:
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.

    This thread seems to have veered way off topic, however there is some strong misconception that needs to be cleared up

    Your subscription is not RNG based.

    RNG, if I'm not mistaken means Random Number Generated

    In order for your toon to lose any "spirit" (2 days of play time for a pleb and more for nobles) you would have to suffer what is called a "coup de grace". Which is an act taken after your character has been knocked out

    From my understanding you can fight someone and if you lose you are "knocked out" (which does not cost any spirit loss AT ALL). At that point they could, if they wanted, loot only *some* of your possessions. And they could do a "coup de grace" (this act is what causes the spirit loss or loss of max lifespan) in order to rip your soul from your body and send you into the spirit realm. That would give them access to loot more of your items (the exact mechanics on this haven't been hashed out because everything is still in process)

    Most crafters imho would be closer to the 12 month max because they *should* rarely be seeing any kind of combat or suffer spirit loss

    Then you have the reckless adventurer or deviant who loses their spirit quicker than a pissed off girlfriend sending a text

    It's between these demographics of the super careful, and the super risky that you'd see an 8 month median. What the average lifespan *will* be though? Well, only time can tell us that

    One thing is certain though, your lifespan will not be *RNG Based*, it will be 12 months max and shorter depending on the amount of risk you decide to take

    Just to chime in- the idea that Crafters won't be targets has to assume they won't leave the safety of their liege's walls.

    Ask EVE miners/traders if they aren't targeted specifically due to their lack of any adequate means of defending themselves.  That's what Crafters will face anytime they leave the safety of their liege's protection.  If the liege can't protect them outside the city/castle/what have you walls, they will be targeted repeatedly as a target of opportunity.

    Defenseless players have always been preyed upon by those with the power to gank them.  This has been a constant throughout the genre's existence, I don't see CoE changing that.  Folks gank in games where they get nothing; the same will happen here, and I'm not convinced the life cost system will do much to deter it.
    That's a valid point! And to that I pose this question
    If I buy all of my supplies in town
    Craft all of my goods in town
    Sell them out of my shop in town
    Why would my Crafter leave the town?
  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    "And just to get back into the game you need to pony up the $35 (and maybe a $10 SoulPack to make a new character) just to get back into the game"

    Again, I was only adding clarity because most people won't be as knowledgeable about the game as you and I.

    The way it's written to say "and maybe a soul pack to create a new character" wasn't very clear. To someone who doesn't know a lot about the game that could be construed as "needing" to buy a soul pack to create a new character

    I merely added clarity
    Sure.  Clear as mud.

    Well color me black. Pot meet Kettle
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,274
    Tiller said:
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.

    This thread seems to have veered way off topic, however there is some strong misconception that needs to be cleared up

    Your subscription is not RNG based.

    RNG, if I'm not mistaken means Random Number Generated

    In order for your toon to lose any "spirit" (2 days of play time for a pleb and more for nobles) you would have to suffer what is called a "coup de grace". Which is an act taken after your character has been knocked out

    From my understanding you can fight someone and if you lose you are "knocked out" (which does not cost any spirit loss AT ALL). At that point they could, if they wanted, loot only *some* of your possessions. And they could do a "coup de grace" (this act is what causes the spirit loss or loss of max lifespan) in order to rip your soul from your body and send you into the spirit realm. That would give them access to loot more of your items (the exact mechanics on this haven't been hashed out because everything is still in process)

    Most crafters imho would be closer to the 12 month max because they *should* rarely be seeing any kind of combat or suffer spirit loss

    Then you have the reckless adventurer or deviant who loses their spirit quicker than a pissed off girlfriend sending a text

    It's between these demographics of the super careful, and the super risky that you'd see an 8 month median. What the average lifespan *will* be though? Well, only time can tell us that

    One thing is certain though, your lifespan will not be *RNG Based*, it will be 12 months max and shorter depending on the amount of risk you decide to take

    Just to chime in- the idea that Crafters won't be targets has to assume they won't leave the safety of their liege's walls.

    Ask EVE miners/traders if they aren't targeted specifically due to their lack of any adequate means of defending themselves.  That's what Crafters will face anytime they leave the safety of their liege's protection.  If the liege can't protect them outside the city/castle/what have you walls, they will be targeted repeatedly as a target of opportunity.

    Defenseless players have always been preyed upon by those with the power to gank them.  This has been a constant throughout the genre's existence, I don't see CoE changing that.  Folks gank in games where they get nothing; the same will happen here, and I'm not convinced the life cost system will do much to deter it.
    That's a valid point! And to that I pose this question
    If I buy all of my supplies in town
    Craft all of my goods in town
    Sell them out of my shop in town
    Why would my Crafter leave the town?
    To meet up with others, to take a break from crafting and see more than 5% of the entire game world?  To meet a potential supplier?

    I mean, you're literally implying that Crafters will park their characters in a town and never leave it.  How many players have you honestly met that have done such a thing?

    image
  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    Right, but a vast majority of their time would be spent in relative safety imo

    Also, going out into the wilds with friends, strength in numbers?

    Outside of making a game full on PvE you can't stop ganking, so it's sort of a moot point to say there will be ganking, right?

    Heck you even have people "griefing" in full on PvE games by stealing kills or loot. So there is no real way to stop griefing either. Mitigate it? Sure, you can try, but abusers and sadists will always find a way. There is no arounf that fact
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,572
    Tiller said:
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.

    This thread seems to have veered way off topic, however there is some strong misconception that needs to be cleared up

    Your subscription is not RNG based.

    RNG, if I'm not mistaken means Random Number Generated

    In order for your toon to lose any "spirit" (2 days of play time for a pleb and more for nobles) you would have to suffer what is called a "coup de grace". Which is an act taken after your character has been knocked out

    From my understanding you can fight someone and if you lose you are "knocked out" (which does not cost any spirit loss AT ALL). At that point they could, if they wanted, loot only *some* of your possessions. And they could do a "coup de grace" (this act is what causes the spirit loss or loss of max lifespan) in order to rip your soul from your body and send you into the spirit realm. That would give them access to loot more of your items (the exact mechanics on this haven't been hashed out because everything is still in process)

    Most crafters imho would be closer to the 12 month max because they *should* rarely be seeing any kind of combat or suffer spirit loss

    Then you have the reckless adventurer or deviant who loses their spirit quicker than a pissed off girlfriend sending a text

    It's between these demographics of the super careful, and the super risky that you'd see an 8 month median. What the average lifespan *will* be though? Well, only time can tell us that

    One thing is certain though, your lifespan will not be *RNG Based*, it will be 12 months max and shorter depending on the amount of risk you decide to take

    Just to chime in- the idea that Crafters won't be targets has to assume they won't leave the safety of their liege's walls.

    Ask EVE miners/traders if they aren't targeted specifically due to their lack of any adequate means of defending themselves.  That's what Crafters will face anytime they leave the safety of their liege's protection.  If the liege can't protect them outside the city/castle/what have you walls, they will be targeted repeatedly as a target of opportunity.

    Defenseless players have always been preyed upon by those with the power to gank them.  This has been a constant throughout the genre's existence, I don't see CoE changing that.  Folks gank in games where they get nothing; the same will happen here, and I'm not convinced the life cost system will do much to deter it.
    That's a valid point! And to that I pose this question
    If I buy all of my supplies in town
    Craft all of my goods in town
    Sell them out of my shop in town
    Why would my Crafter leave the town?
    To meet up with others, to take a break from crafting and see more than 5% of the entire game world?  To meet a potential supplier?

    I mean, you're literally implying that Crafters will park their characters in a town and never leave it.  How many players have you honestly met that have done such a thing?
    Towns will be target rich environments for griefers.  Especially in off hours.
    These characters cannot log out.  Shooting fish in a barrel.

    Kyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    Tiller said:
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.

    This thread seems to have veered way off topic, however there is some strong misconception that needs to be cleared up

    Your subscription is not RNG based.

    RNG, if I'm not mistaken means Random Number Generated

    In order for your toon to lose any "spirit" (2 days of play time for a pleb and more for nobles) you would have to suffer what is called a "coup de grace". Which is an act taken after your character has been knocked out

    From my understanding you can fight someone and if you lose you are "knocked out" (which does not cost any spirit loss AT ALL). At that point they could, if they wanted, loot only *some* of your possessions. And they could do a "coup de grace" (this act is what causes the spirit loss or loss of max lifespan) in order to rip your soul from your body and send you into the spirit realm. That would give them access to loot more of your items (the exact mechanics on this haven't been hashed out because everything is still in process)

    Most crafters imho would be closer to the 12 month max because they *should* rarely be seeing any kind of combat or suffer spirit loss

    Then you have the reckless adventurer or deviant who loses their spirit quicker than a pissed off girlfriend sending a text

    It's between these demographics of the super careful, and the super risky that you'd see an 8 month median. What the average lifespan *will* be though? Well, only time can tell us that

    One thing is certain though, your lifespan will not be *RNG Based*, it will be 12 months max and shorter depending on the amount of risk you decide to take

    Just to chime in- the idea that Crafters won't be targets has to assume they won't leave the safety of their liege's walls.

    Ask EVE miners/traders if they aren't targeted specifically due to their lack of any adequate means of defending themselves.  That's what Crafters will face anytime they leave the safety of their liege's protection.  If the liege can't protect them outside the city/castle/what have you walls, they will be targeted repeatedly as a target of opportunity.

    Defenseless players have always been preyed upon by those with the power to gank them.  This has been a constant throughout the genre's existence, I don't see CoE changing that.  Folks gank in games where they get nothing; the same will happen here, and I'm not convinced the life cost system will do much to deter it.
    That's a valid point! And to that I pose this question
    If I buy all of my supplies in town
    Craft all of my goods in town
    Sell them out of my shop in town
    Why would my Crafter leave the town?
    To meet up with others, to take a break from crafting and see more than 5% of the entire game world?  To meet a potential supplier?

    I mean, you're literally implying that Crafters will park their characters in a town and never leave it.  How many players have you honestly met that have done such a thing?
    Towns will be target rich environments for griefers.  Especially in off hours.
    These characters cannot log out.  Shooting fish in a barrel.

    At this point we don't know how effective/ineffective town guards will be. And clearly a town would be a nice prize for some mercenaries (I hesitate to call those players griefers because griefing implies slaughter for no more gain than personal pleasure)

    Without any game to play or mechanics to reference we are basically just speculating

    I can claim cities and townsfolk will be impervious to any potential attack

    While someone else can claim 1 guy with a skinning knife can decimate an entire town in their sleep

    Who's right though? No one
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,572
    Tiller said:
    Yeah see that unknown is what kills it. Some may only live 3 months, but more than likely 8, and 12 max if your lucky? What the actual f**k?  What happens if it's only 3 months? I imagine lots of rage quite over this once realty sets in for some people.  So now your subscription is RNG based, congrats backers /golfclap. I can't believe so many people bought into this idea, then again nothing surprises me anymore these days.

    This thread seems to have veered way off topic, however there is some strong misconception that needs to be cleared up

    Your subscription is not RNG based.

    RNG, if I'm not mistaken means Random Number Generated

    In order for your toon to lose any "spirit" (2 days of play time for a pleb and more for nobles) you would have to suffer what is called a "coup de grace". Which is an act taken after your character has been knocked out

    From my understanding you can fight someone and if you lose you are "knocked out" (which does not cost any spirit loss AT ALL). At that point they could, if they wanted, loot only *some* of your possessions. And they could do a "coup de grace" (this act is what causes the spirit loss or loss of max lifespan) in order to rip your soul from your body and send you into the spirit realm. That would give them access to loot more of your items (the exact mechanics on this haven't been hashed out because everything is still in process)

    Most crafters imho would be closer to the 12 month max because they *should* rarely be seeing any kind of combat or suffer spirit loss

    Then you have the reckless adventurer or deviant who loses their spirit quicker than a pissed off girlfriend sending a text

    It's between these demographics of the super careful, and the super risky that you'd see an 8 month median. What the average lifespan *will* be though? Well, only time can tell us that

    One thing is certain though, your lifespan will not be *RNG Based*, it will be 12 months max and shorter depending on the amount of risk you decide to take

    Just to chime in- the idea that Crafters won't be targets has to assume they won't leave the safety of their liege's walls.

    Ask EVE miners/traders if they aren't targeted specifically due to their lack of any adequate means of defending themselves.  That's what Crafters will face anytime they leave the safety of their liege's protection.  If the liege can't protect them outside the city/castle/what have you walls, they will be targeted repeatedly as a target of opportunity.

    Defenseless players have always been preyed upon by those with the power to gank them.  This has been a constant throughout the genre's existence, I don't see CoE changing that.  Folks gank in games where they get nothing; the same will happen here, and I'm not convinced the life cost system will do much to deter it.
    That's a valid point! And to that I pose this question
    If I buy all of my supplies in town
    Craft all of my goods in town
    Sell them out of my shop in town
    Why would my Crafter leave the town?
    To meet up with others, to take a break from crafting and see more than 5% of the entire game world?  To meet a potential supplier?

    I mean, you're literally implying that Crafters will park their characters in a town and never leave it.  How many players have you honestly met that have done such a thing?
    Towns will be target rich environments for griefers.  Especially in off hours.
    These characters cannot log out.  Shooting fish in a barrel.

    At this point we don't know how effective/ineffective town guards will be. And clearly a town would be a nice prize for some mercenaries (I hesitate to call those players griefers because griefing implies slaughter for no more gain than personal pleasure)

    Without any game to play or mechanics to reference we are basically just speculating

    I can claim cities and townsfolk will be impervious to any potential attack

    While someone else can claim 1 guy with a skinning knife can decimate an entire town in their sleep

    Who's right though? No one
    Common sense says that they will be quite vulnerable.  Otherwise these "guards" would prevent any hostile assault. Unless it has changed, Hamlets, the smallest pop center will have no organized government and maybe 10 total characters.  A Village (the next size) has been described as typically having 3-5 Players and maybe 25 total characters.

    None of those are going to have any significant deterrence to griefers (or roaming bands of mercenaries).

    A Town need 75 people (no numbers on PCs but if its scales from village would be 9-15 players).  Here maybe, they could hire a guard or two for off hours, but they won't be super soldiers... and they wont be omniscient either.  

    Sure we wont know for sure until the game launches.. next decade... but unless you think that AI is once again going to be something that they revolutionize.. having a place of AFK crafters is going to be like shooting fish in a barrel.  Especially for a decent sized group.

    Maybe they will go for Darkfall's Zap-Towers.   On sale for the Festival of Electros for just $99.99.

    We will see who is right.
    NeutralEvil

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

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  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    edited March 2018
    I totally agree, small hamlets especially would be quite vulnerable

    I would expect even the half-wits of the world to have enough "common sense" to avoid setting up shop in one of these.

    Think of it this way
    You're a Miner. Every time you go to a certain mine you get ganked, robbed and then griefed. After no too many times of this happening you'll probably decide to go elsewhere, maybe somewhere safer. That's what I would expect to happen
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,487
    Ungood said:
    I only point out any soul can do any skill to dispel confusion. A lot of people reading may not know this and your post didn't include that info so that's why I wanted to point it out
    There is "doing anything" and then there is "better suited to do".  So to avoid any misunderstandings I want to clear up any confusion.   Not all souls will start out being able to do all things equally.   If you work at it you can push a soul in the direction you want by using certain skills.  But of course, if your soul was already pre-disposed to certain traits that would be easier, and faster.

    So if I spend a life as a soldier... in my next life I would be better as a soldier, and if I wanted to be a Blacksmith I could do so and push into new skills, or I could buy a new SoulPack based on Blacksmith and start faster and easier.




    I see you have never played games like this.. 

    I'll give you this clue for free..

    or in your next life.. you can be a blacksmith that is "better" at combat.. and.. well in a game of Open PvP.. let the value of that sink in.
    Sure.  Is this like when you assumed I was some PvP gank-dude?

    So yeah.. you can be a blacksmith that is "better" at combat.  You just will be behind in your Blacksmithing.   Way to focus on an insignificant detail.  Lets change soldier and Blacksmith and make it Alchemist and Blacksmith if that makes it easier for you to follow along.

    Yes, you can take your prior Alchemist and bend them into a Blacksmith... OR you can buy a "Blacksmith Soulpack" with souls pre-disposed to the Blacksmith traits.  There is obviously an advantage to buying a soul pre-disposed to a specific career otherwise there would be no purpose served by selling themed soul-packs.

    Who would have thought we would have all these followups because I said you MIGHT buy a soulpack if you restarted after dropping the game for 6 months.

    Griefers are going to have a field day with some of you.


    You put griefers and gankers on a pedestal.. so it's a safe assumption that you are one.

    As for your other things.. Ok.. well.. I gave you your free one.. 
  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 112
    edited March 2018
    So, wait, hold on. For my own clarity, I want to understand if the following is true or not:

    You buy a Spark of Life, that is set for 12 Elyria months or real world months?

    When that lifespan is up, you have to buy a new spark of life to continue, which means other players can effect how long I can play this game, as them killing me reduces my playtime by a certain amount?

    Therefore, griefers will not only take my characters life and loot but they'll also, by proxy, cost me real money by doing so?
    NeutralEvilKyleran
  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    edited March 2018
    As I understand it 1 Elyrian year is 1 real world week. With each spark of life being a max of 12 irl months (52 Elyrian years)

    The rest you have is accurate

    And if I were you, I'd hide as close to the City barracks as you possibly can.
    Or stay away from the game altogether.

    Because I will be out there. 
    Ready.
    And waiting.
    To slaughter anyone who is more than 3 steps away from a guard's patrol (the first 3 steps are free)

    Edit to add info

    It's also been noted that you can accumulate "story points" which you can use in lieu of a spark of life. Of course with this mechanic just like with, well, all of them. We don't have the game yet to see exactly how that will work or any more specifics. I'll look for a source to that info tomorrow
    LinifKyleran
  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 112
    As I understand it 1 Elyrian year is 1 real world week. With each spark of life being a max of 12 irl months (52 Elyrian years)

    The rest you have is accurate

    And if I were you, I'd hide as close to the City barracks as you possibly can.
    Or stay away from the game altogether.

    Because I will be out there. 
    Ready.
    And waiting.
    To slaughter anyone who is more than 3 steps away from a guard's patrol (the first 3 steps are free)
    I want to say this sounds like a major design flaw, but if I view it from the angle of a money starved studio... It makes sense.

    Honestly, I'm flabbergasted at the ridiculous notion that a fellow player can make the decision to take away game time, therefore piss away my money for this "Life".
    Slapshot1188
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,572
    Linif said:
    So, wait, hold on. For my own clarity, I want to understand if the following is true or not:

    You buy a Spark of Life, that is set for 12 Elyria months or real world months?

    When that lifespan is up, you have to buy a new spark of life to continue, which means other players can effect how long I can play this game, as them killing me reduces my playtime by a certain amount?
    12 Real world months.  Reduced by a varied amount (minimum 2 days) every time you die.  The amount of life you lose depends on both your fame and the fame of any people you have killed.  

    Developer posts have said that dying on a battlefield for instance would give you a 4x death penalty.

    Developer posts have said that the more famous you are the more days you will lose.  An example given shows 7 tiers of fame running from Unknown to Legendary. The penalties range from 1x to 32x.  If you take a mid tier it indicates a 4x multiplier.

    So if you are mid-tier fame and die on the battlefield one time.. it should be 2 days X 4 X 4 or... 32 days lost.   It has also been stated that if you KILL someone that is famous you will also get a death penalty multiplier.  

    So yes... if someone griefs you.. you will lose life.  You will also lose life if you go and hunt them down for revenge.  This is why I call it a griefer's paradise. They will cause you to have a monetary impact when they kill you.  And the kicker is that your character stays in game when you log. So you can be killed while you are at work...

    Now the info on this is scattered over random forum posts and Discord statements so it could be out of date.  Anyone can correct the math if things have changed... but the bottom line is that YES.. if someone kills you... it will cause you to lose your subscription time/life.


    Linif

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 112
    Linif said:
    So, wait, hold on. For my own clarity, I want to understand if the following is true or not:

    You buy a Spark of Life, that is set for 12 Elyria months or real world months?

    When that lifespan is up, you have to buy a new spark of life to continue, which means other players can effect how long I can play this game, as them killing me reduces my playtime by a certain amount?
    12 Real world months.  Reduced by a varied amount (minimum 2 days) every time you die.  The amount of life you lose depends on both your fame and the fame of any people you have killed.  

    Developer posts have said that dying on a battlefield for instance would give you a 4x death penalty.

    Developer posts have said that the more famous you are the more days you will lose.  An example given shows 7 tiers of fame running from Unknown to Legendary. The penalties range from 1x to 32x.  If you take a mid tier it indicates a 4x multiplier.

    So if you are mid-tier fame and die on the battlefield one time.. it should be 2 days X 4 X 4 or... 32 days lost.   It has also been stated that if you KILL someone that is famous you will also get a death penalty multiplier.  

    So yes... if someone griefs you.. you will lose life.  You will also lose life if you go and hunt them down for revenge.  This is why I call it a griefer's paradise. They will cause you to have a monetary impact when they kill you.  And the kicker is that your character stays in game when you log. So you can be killed while you are at work...

    Now the info on this is scattered over random forum posts and Discord statements so it could be out of date.  Anyone can correct the math if things have changed... but the bottom line is that YES.. if someone kills you... it will cause you to lose your subscription time/life.


    Utterly ridiculous. It may be the shock of discovering this brain dead mechanic speaking, but the person who came up with that concept should be fired and chemically castrated to prevent breeding.

    With that out of the way, I don't quite understand how ANYONE could have thought this was a good idea.

    Ah, I see what my problem is, I'm thinking like a player. I'll pop on my business suit and look at it like a person who gains from this monetarily.

    Yep, there it is, now it makes sense. 

    To end on a salty note, this game will be a wallet warriors paradise. I know that's an exaggeration, but if I lose my character because I wanted to enjoy the game on a larger stage, therefore end up having to pay the same amount I paid to play 12 months, but this time only 3 months, I will be severely pissed.
    Slapshot1188Nilden
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 10,572
    Linif said:
    Linif said:
    So, wait, hold on. For my own clarity, I want to understand if the following is true or not:

    You buy a Spark of Life, that is set for 12 Elyria months or real world months?

    When that lifespan is up, you have to buy a new spark of life to continue, which means other players can effect how long I can play this game, as them killing me reduces my playtime by a certain amount?
    12 Real world months.  Reduced by a varied amount (minimum 2 days) every time you die.  The amount of life you lose depends on both your fame and the fame of any people you have killed.  

    Developer posts have said that dying on a battlefield for instance would give you a 4x death penalty.

    Developer posts have said that the more famous you are the more days you will lose.  An example given shows 7 tiers of fame running from Unknown to Legendary. The penalties range from 1x to 32x.  If you take a mid tier it indicates a 4x multiplier.

    So if you are mid-tier fame and die on the battlefield one time.. it should be 2 days X 4 X 4 or... 32 days lost.   It has also been stated that if you KILL someone that is famous you will also get a death penalty multiplier.  

    So yes... if someone griefs you.. you will lose life.  You will also lose life if you go and hunt them down for revenge.  This is why I call it a griefer's paradise. They will cause you to have a monetary impact when they kill you.  And the kicker is that your character stays in game when you log. So you can be killed while you are at work...

    Now the info on this is scattered over random forum posts and Discord statements so it could be out of date.  Anyone can correct the math if things have changed... but the bottom line is that YES.. if someone kills you... it will cause you to lose your subscription time/life.


    Utterly ridiculous. It may be the shock of discovering this brain dead mechanic speaking, but the person who came up with that concept should be fired and chemically castrated to prevent breeding.

    With that out of the way, I don't quite understand how ANYONE could have thought this was a good idea.

    Ah, I see what my problem is, I'm thinking like a player. I'll pop on my business suit and look at it like a person who gains from this monetarily.

    Yep, there it is, now it makes sense. 

    To end on a salty note, this game will be a wallet warriors paradise. I know that's an exaggeration, but if I lose my character because I wanted to enjoy the game on a larger stage, therefore end up having to pay the same amount I paid to play 12 months, but this time only 3 months, I will be severely pissed.
    Yup.  That's why I have been saying it's a bad idea to tie monetization to this pain point.  Not only is it annoying to get griefed, but now the griefer will cause your sub/life to drop and then eventually you get to pay for a new Spark and start your character over from the beginning again (with somewhat faster skill ramps).

    It can all be changed since they are so far away from release.   That will only happen if the Ivory Tower speaks truth to them and not platitudes.  I think your response is probably the response of the average player.




    Linif

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • NeutralEvilNeutralEvil Member UncommonPosts: 108
    edited March 2018
    Linif said:
    So, wait, hold on. For my own clarity, I want to understand if the following is true or not:

    You buy a Spark of Life, that is set for 12 Elyria months or real world months?

    When that lifespan is up, you have to buy a new spark of life to continue, which means other players can effect how long I can play this game, as them killing me reduces my playtime by a certain amount?
    12 Real world months.  Reduced by a varied amount (minimum 2 days) every time you die.  The amount of life you lose depends on both your fame and the fame of any people you have killed.  

    Developer posts have said that dying on a battlefield for instance would give you a 4x death penalty.

    Developer posts have said that the more famous you are the more days you will lose.  An example given shows 7 tiers of fame running from Unknown to Legendary. The penalties range from 1x to 32x.  If you take a mid tier it indicates a 4x multiplier.

    So if you are mid-tier fame and die on the battlefield one time.. it should be 2 days X 4 X 4 or... 32 days lost.   It has also been stated that if you KILL someone that is famous you will also get a death penalty multiplier.  

    So yes... if someone griefs you.. you will lose life.  You will also lose life if you go and hunt them down for revenge.  This is why I call it a griefer's paradise. They will cause you to have a monetary impact when they kill you.  And the kicker is that your character stays in game when you log. So you can be killed while you are at work...

    Now the info on this is scattered over random forum posts and Discord statements so it could be out of date.  Anyone can correct the math if things have changed... but the bottom line is that YES.. if someone kills you... it will cause you to lose your subscription time/life.


    From what I understand there will be a justice system. With this justice system you can get "Bounty Tokens". With these tokens you can hunt down the murderer

    This mechanic, like all of the mechanics has not yet been tested. So if you're looking for specifics we'll have to wait until we can test out the game to see how that works

    Also, killing in war is a "legal" or "sanctioned" kill. Which means you suffer no penalty for killing your foe on the battlefield. Unlike if you were to kill someone out in the "wilds" as a brigand. There is a big difference between Murder and War


    Edited to also highlight the "starting over"

    You start over with your skills, however, if you have an "heir" you retain all of your possessions and your lands. So you aren't exactly starting over with 10 iron ingots in your pocket if your are a blacksmith for instance (why do we always use a smith?)

    You would be starting over with the stockpile your original character left, the house you had, the shop you had and everything else in between. Only your "skill" drops back down (all the way to 0 or slightly higher based on where you were at? Who knows, this mechanic, like all of them, is still in the works) and then you can retrain your smithing faster

    Post edited by NeutralEvil on
    mystichaze
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,488
    If Soulbound could find a way to monetize all of the theory crafting that goes on regarding how COE "might" work they'd probably bring in more cash than Star Citizen does.

    ;)
    Slapshot1188NeutralEvil

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