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Organic Raid at every level.

nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
Not just max level. Example

1. Joe: Hey John, lets play world of magic, im already level 14, its a fun game

John: Ok.

John buy the game.

John: Hey im at xx city. im level 1. can we play together? no homo

Joe: Sure bro, wait a sec i go there

They meet each other and Joe lead the way to level 1 area

John: what your lv now?

Joe: 16

John: can u gain exp in level 1 area?

Joe: Yes but not much

Joe help john leveling, and play as a tank. because level 1 mobs wont give serious damage to him.

John: wow there is so many mobs and other players also rely on u to tank the mob

joe: yeah haha

A moment later MVP monster, Medusa come and attack them.

john: wow there is boss monster in this map.

joe: i cant fight it, the boss level 99. lets run

Somehow, they are lucky, at the brink of death, a group of elite player have come and start attacking Medusa.

joe: wow heavensword, an elite group of max level player has come back to help, lets attack Medusa!

john: wow raid at level 1!!

they attack medusa together and get exp.

Joe: every map have max level boss, its the reason max level player to come back. they need to slay the boss to create legendary item

john: cool






Phry
«1

Comments

  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 507
    I'm not sure I get this post.  A lot of MMORPGs have world bosses in low level areas.  Problem is, once people have killed it once, it's usually not worth killing again.

    And don't get me started on the Hogger raids of early WoW... 


  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    btdt said:
    I'm not sure I get this post.  A lot of MMORPGs have world bosses in low level areas.  Problem is, once people have killed it once, it's usually not worth killing again.

    And don't get me started on the Hogger raids of early WoW... 


    1. interaction between players.
    2. high level and low level can play together
    3. reason to come back to lower level area
  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Member RarePosts: 1,984
    The implausible part of this is that the two didn't die as soon as they hit the boss or got in aoe range.  I've been killed by so many bosses when I was actually the right level to be fighting them...
    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,941
    edited March 2018
    It would better if John able to equip high level items Joe give him and able to do quests that Joe can do . Joe will lead John going adventure without have to worry about leveling

    Then they able to do boss raid even if they are low levels because the equipment are strong enough and average items are cheap enough for them to get in hand

    And put high level Rift events or high level monster assault events on low level maps so high level players will return to those map to do the events .
  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    iixviiiix said:
    It would better if John able to equip high level items Joe give him and able to do quests that Joe can do . Joe will lead John going adventure without have to worry about leveling

    Then they able to do boss raid even if they are low levels because the equipment are strong enough and average items are cheap enough for them to get in hand

    And put high level Rift events or high level monster assault events on low level maps so high level players will return to those map to do the events .
    level 1 cannot equip level 16 item
  • AkulasAkulas Member RarePosts: 2,486
    I always wanted a lvl 1 raid with your gear and level being scaled to level 1. Not like the WoW naked  lvl 1 character hogger raiding of old times.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,654
    edited March 2018
    The reality is:

    1. World boss harasses low level players for a couple of hours
    2. A group of high level players arrive and harasses low level players so that they'd fuck off from interfering during the fight
    3. If someone doesn't obey the high levels they'll get both killed by AoE and cursed at by high levels


    That's how it's been in every game with world bosses. World bosses are nice content in their own way, but organic raids that accept low levels without raiding experience don't happen.
    Phry
     
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,654
    edited March 2018
    iixviiiix said:
    It would better if John able to equip high level items Joe give him and able to do quests that Joe can do . Joe will lead John going adventure without have to worry about leveling

    Then they able to do boss raid even if they are low levels because the equipment are strong enough and average items are cheap enough for them to get in hand

    And put high level Rift events or high level monster assault events on low level maps so high level players will return to those map to do the events .
    How would it be good idea to make every item John gets through adventuring worthless, and all his own level content so easy it's trivial?
     
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,194
    edited March 2018
    Well OP,what you touched on is exactly what is wrong with mmorpg's.Those high level ONLY care about bosses and end game stuff,they couldn't care less about that zone otherwise.

    Altaholic designs are terrible,but if you had the ability to level up all classes on the same player,then those zones are for years still used and still important,NO bosses needed.This has been the sad focus of every gamer since forever,let's go kill Boss.
    Then when a dev finally creates SOME content,it is usually in form of PVP,well because they don't know how to create content aside from Bosses and quests...ahem ,i mean errands,very little ever feels like an actual quest.

    Let's point back to Joe/John level 1 and level 15,if there were other classes on that same player,all he would have to do is jump on a different class at level 1 and both players are good to go,NO scaling needed,no mentoring needed,just good game design,a smart developer.


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • esc-joconnoresc-joconnor Member RarePosts: 1,092
    How about content is generated for whatever level of players happen to be involved? So many of the basic concepts of modern MMORPGs are just silly. They were based on D&D, but in D&D the best magical swords didn't do that much more damage than their normal counterparts. What's the damage difference in WoW between a level 1 and a level 80 basic item? More than 1000% or something? Youch XD
  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    Wizardry said:
    Well OP,what you touched on is exactly what is wrong with mmorpg's.Those high level ONLY care about bosses and end game stuff,they couldn't care less about that zone otherwise.

    Altaholic designs are terrible,but if you had the ability to level up all classes on the same player,then those zones are for years still used and still important,NO bosses needed.This has been the sad focus of every gamer since forever,let's go kill Boss.
    Then when a dev finally creates SOME content,it is usually in form of PVP,well because they don't know how to create content aside from Bosses and quests...ahem ,i mean errands,very little ever feels like an actual quest.

    Let's point back to Joe/John level 1 and level 15,if there were other classes on that same player,all he would have to do is jump on a different class at level 1 and both players are good to go,NO scaling needed,no mentoring needed,just good game design,a smart developer.


    what if joe only want to leveling up his current class..


  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    Vrika said:
    The reality is:

    1. World boss harasses low level players for a couple of hours
    2. A group of high level players arrive and harasses low level players so that they'd fuck off from interfering during the fight
    3. If someone doesn't obey the high levels they'll get both killed by AoE and cursed at by high levels


    That's how it's been in every game with world bosses. World bosses are nice content in their own way, but organic raids that accept low levels without raiding experience don't happen.
    this is not a pvp server..
  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    this what happen in black desert online

    joe: go buy the game

    john: ok

    john buy bdo

    john: where u my brada

    joe: go complete main quest and meet me at lv 50 we do raid and castle 100vs100 epic war

    after 3 month.

    joe: where u my brada

    john:i uninstall bdo after lv 30. freaking online single player main quest game. i want raid at level 1
    Cryomatrix
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    I am not convinced that more raiding is really what MMOs need today. Sure, it was fun doing an open world raid now and again back in the days and it could be fun again but I rather have more focus on strategy and raise the average difficulty up.

    Make the general mobs a bit smarter and force us players to actually think on how to defeat things even in the open world seems better to me. SSome years ago you actually carefully studied a situation before pulling out the right mobs instead of just running into whatever standing there knowing no open world mob actually can threaten you.

    Raid bosses would add a bit of that as well I guess but I rather have most fights being interesting and dangerous then a few selective bosses you need a large team for.

    Just adding raid bosses would still leave 90% of the game insanely easy but with some mobs that would one shot you walking around.
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,405
    MMO's that already have this feature...

    BDO
    GW2
    EQ
    EQ2

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,654
    this what happen in black desert online

    joe: go buy the game

    john: ok

    john buy bdo

    john: where u my brada

    joe: go complete main quest and meet me at lv 50 we do raid and castle 100vs100 epic war

    after 3 month.

    joe: where u my brada

    john:i uninstall bdo after lv 30. freaking online single player main quest game. i want raid at level 1
    It's a lot better than nothing, which is what would happen in BDO if people were allowed to skip most of the content.

    Your problem is that you don't want an MMORPG. There are a lot of good online games that focus on having fun fighting instead of character progression. I think you should try one of them.
     
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,654
    edited March 2018
    Vrika said:
    The reality is:

    1. World boss harasses low level players for a couple of hours
    2. A group of high level players arrive and harasses low level players so that they'd fuck off from interfering during the fight
    3. If someone doesn't obey the high levels they'll get both killed by AoE and cursed at by high levels


    That's how it's been in every game with world bosses. World bosses are nice content in their own way, but organic raids that accept low levels without raiding experience don't happen.
    this is not a pvp server..
    That matters a lot less than you think. Low levels will get in the way and get killed by AoEs, and the high levels won't have patience for their interference during a difficult fight.
    Phry
     
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,941
    edited March 2018
    Vrika said:
    iixviiiix said:
    It would better if John able to equip high level items Joe give him and able to do quests that Joe can do . Joe will lead John going adventure without have to worry about leveling

    Then they able to do boss raid even if they are low levels because the equipment are strong enough and average items are cheap enough for them to get in hand

    And put high level Rift events or high level monster assault events on low level maps so high level players will return to those map to do the events .
    How would it be good idea to make every item John gets through adventuring worthless, and all his own level content so easy it's trivial?
    Most items Johns get through his low level adventuring are worthless anyway , aside from the gold.
    And nowadays level contents are easy , i can finish most of the quests of max level at level 1 with some help from my friends .

    Low levels contents mostly consume around 1 to 10h of play nowadays , so instead of put player though 10h of boring play , give them a way to access average level contents is better deal IMO .

    And even low contents have it value aside from the reward items , it's the story of it . Players will still return to play those contents even if they are high level  , because they need stuff to do .

    I feel funny that developers still want us to follow the steps nowadays when most of us ready used to those steps . Why follow the steps when in the end most of time player spend are in hamster wheel ?

    A good MMORPG is a game that allow player to play with other right after they start instead have to endurance push though low level contents before they can enjoy multiplayer parts .
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Vrika said:
    That matters a lot less than you think. Low levels will get in the way and get killed by AoEs, and the high levels won't have patience for their interference during a difficult fight.
    To be fair wasn't it that bad back in EQ2 when it used similar mechanics, most low levels that got killed by the raidbosses were people that ran into them by misstake, often on autorun. The raidbosses there were pretty gigantic so any lowbie with sense stayed far away from them. Of course lowbies never really tried to "help" there, if they did they died bloody fast,

    But I never remember any lowbie saying that they liked huge epic raid level bosses on low level zones or many people saying that they missed that feature in newer MMOs.

    Getting high level teams back into low level zones only work if you downlevel them like in GW2 or if you lower the powergap a lot.
  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    Loke666 said:
    Vrika said:
    That matters a lot less than you think. Low levels will get in the way and get killed by AoEs, and the high levels won't have patience for their interference during a difficult fight.
    To be fair wasn't it that bad back in EQ2 when it used similar mechanics, most low levels that got killed by the raidbosses were people that ran into them by misstake, often on autorun. The raidbosses there were pretty gigantic so any lowbie with sense stayed far away from them. Of course lowbies never really tried to "help" there, if they did they died bloody fast,

    But I never remember any lowbie saying that they liked huge epic raid level bosses on low level zones or many people saying that they missed that feature in newer MMOs.

    Getting high level teams back into low level zones only work if you downlevel them like in GW2 or if you lower the powergap a lot.
    thats why new idea. next gen
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,145
    I'm not seeing anything new about this idea, except that Joe and John get some XP by leeching off the high level group. It still seems like terrible game design. 


    What you want to do is go for horizontal progression, rather than vertical. That way, every player in the game has roughly equivalent power and so can nearly always group up and take on content together and everyone get something out of it. Vertical progression is a leftover from single player RPGs (and co-op tabletop) and just doesn't work in MMOs, we need to get rid of it. 
    Mendel
  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    edited March 2018
    I'm not seeing anything new about this idea, except that Joe and John get some XP by leeching off the high level group. It still seems like terrible game design. 


    What you want to do is go for horizontal progression, rather than vertical. That way, every player in the game has roughly equivalent power and so can nearly always group up and take on content together and everyone get something out of it. Vertical progression is a leftover from single player RPGs (and co-op tabletop) and just doesn't work in MMOs, we need to get rid of it. 
    mobs is level 1, but there is lv 100 map boss there randomly appear every 2 hour after defeated

    and there is a map mini boss appear every 1 hour... this mini boss is weak, 20 level 1 players can defeat it..but map boss need 20 max level players..

    i hate queing for raid..like waiting for 20-40 players...so fake, i want organic
  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    The old design was better IMO.  The lower level people didn't generally raid with the other people.  There were a lot of mixed mobs in every zone.  Sometimes the higher levels would come to the lower zone to kill the high level mobs.  They would often give buffs to the lower levels and buy things from them like bone chips or bat wings.  Interaction between high and low level players doesn't have to be in the form of killing things together.

    The horizontal progression concept is interesting though.  Early games had less of a power gap because equipment wasn't very good.  Getting new spells and abilities could make a big difference, but it was much less than what you see today.
  • iixviiiixiixviiiix Member RarePosts: 1,941
    To summary , the problems are:
    1 Power gap (level design) : too much level gap between new and old players .
    2 Ability design (skills design) : lack of ability to support in group / party .
  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,620
    In L2, there were open world pve bosses for pretty much all level ranges.

    The level range which could participate and benefit from the fight was relatively large. Although not exactly what you refer to in your OP.
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