In general I find tab targeting uninspiring. Would much rather use a soft targeting system as pressing tab constantly is unimmersive.
With an MMO you aren't getting twitch based combat. You are getting a simulation of twitch based combat due to latency issues. With such a system there are ways to do it well and ways to do it poorly. I am not too much a fan of button mashing that you do a lot in these games. I prefer something like Vindictus or Mabinogi where you need a bit of good positioning and timing. I also prefer it where you aren't killing hordes of enemies since having 1 good battle beats out having 1000 shitty battles.
Action combat = you have to manually aim Tab Target = you automatically aim
Thats the only difference. Whoever was talking about tab-targetting meaning you always stand still in combat is an idiot, that's never been the case.
Except that wasn't the gist of what was said. I get that its self-serving and convenient to pick and chose the one little sentence that fits your narrow narrative to try to make a point. What was said was that sometimes each combat style bleeds into each other. So yes there are obviously times one can move while in tab target combat. But there are also times one can not. Correct? No one, in their right mind, can deny that in many tab target combat games the range/caster types are grounded and unable to move while casting their abilities. In those cases, the player is, in fact, standing still.
I am also pretty certain that there where other MMORPGS, especially of the early era, in which both melee and range characters were unable to move while in combat. If for nothing else, simply because the technology did not allow it. There are, however, no instances in which melee or range characters are unable to move while in Action Combat. Hence, the name ACTION COMBAT.
The ability to be able to press the WASD keys and be able to move around between stationary pressed key skill attacks alone does not make it not Tab Target. It equally does not specifically define it as Action Combat. It is simply a variation, or hybrid, of both combat styles. Obviously, there are many variations to combat in MMOs but there is a distinct and fundamental difference between action combat and tab target combat that is easily recognizable to those without a biased point of view.
The only idiots here are those who throw out specific blanket claims such as ...
Action combat = you have to manually aim Tab Target = you automatically aim
I mean, what does that mean? It defines nothing. It is just a simplistically silly and narrow definition that doesn't give justice to the true and sometimes complicated, varied, and intermingling, nature of both combat styles.
Again, if you are manually able to block, dodge, parry, aim or otherwise be mobile while targeting, attacking, and/or defending, that is ACTION COMBAT. If you are locking unto a target and assigning skill points that allow for the game to perform, or in any way, execute these actions (in RNG fashion) for you, as is the case with most, if not all, of the early era MMORPGs, then that is tab target. Most of us have experienced, and/or at least seen, the evolution of combat from Tab Target Combat to Action Combat. The definition is in the name. Its not rocket science. I really don't get what about ACTION COMBAT is so hard for some to understand. Some of you are reading too much into it.
I find that the older I get, the more difficult it becomes to differentiate a discreet target in a screen full of fast exploding pyrotechnics without having tab target. Frankly it just overwhelms my eyes (even with graphics turned down).
That doesn't mean everyone else has to be forced to play as I do. It just means I won't play action combat games anymore.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I find that the older I get, the more difficult it becomes to differentiate a discreet target in a screen full of fast exploding pyrotechnics without having tab target. Frankly it just overwhelms my eyes (even with graphics turned down).
That doesn't mean everyone else has to be forced to play as I do. It just means I won't play action combat games anymore.
This is how I feel sometimes with modern shooters. I used to be EXTREMELY good at CS 1.6, Quake and a lot of older arena shooters but now games have so many moving things at once and you have so much twitch interaction with objects far away it's too much to handle sometimes for me. I haven't gotten to this point with action MMO's yet, but I feel like it could get there soon. If FFXIV had action combat I wouldn't know what the hell was going on ever because of how much is exploding on screen at once in big raid fights.
Action combat = you have to manually aim Tab Target = you automatically aim
Thats the only difference. Whoever was talking about tab-targetting meaning you always stand still in combat is an idiot, that's never been the case.
Except that wasn't the gist of what was said. I get that its self-serving and convenient to pick and chose the one little sentence that fits your narrow narrative to try to make a point. What was said was that sometimes each combat style bleeds into each other. So yes there are obviously times one can move while in tab target combat. But there are also times one can not. Correct? No one, in their right mind, can deny that in many tab target combat games the range/caster types are grounded and unable to move while casting their abilities. In those cases, the player is, in fact, standing still.
I am also pretty certain that there where other MMORPGS, especially of the early era, in which both melee and range characters were unable to move while in combat. If for nothing else, simply because the technology did not allow it. There are, however, no instances in which melee or range characters are unable to move while in Action Combat. Hence, the name ACTION COMBAT.
The ability to be able to press the WASD keys and be able to move around between stationary pressed key skill attacks alone does not make it not Tab Target. It equally does not specifically define it as Action Combat. It is simply a variation, or hybrid, of both combat styles. Obviously, there are many variations to combat in MMOs but there is a distinct and fundamental difference between action combat and tab target combat that is easily recognizable to those without a biased point of view.
The only idiots here are those who throw out specific blanket claims such as ...
Action combat = you have to manually aim Tab Target = you automatically aim
I mean, what does that mean? It defines nothing. It is just a simplistically silly and narrow definition that doesn't give justice to the true and sometimes complicated, varied, and intermingling, nature of both combat styles.
Again, if you are manually able to block, dodge, parry, aim or otherwise be mobile while targeting, attacking, and/or defending, that is ACTION COMBAT. If you are locking unto a target and assigning skill points that allow for the game to perform, or in any way, execute these actions (in RNG fashion) for you, as is the case with most, if not all, of the early era MMORPGs, then that is tab target. Most of us have experienced, and/or at least seen, the evolution of combat from Tab Target Combat to Action Combat. The definition is in the name. Its not rocket science. I really don't get what about ACTION COMBAT is so hard for some to understand. Some of you are reading too much into it.
Thats the thing though, my really simplistic breakdown is the only common thing in action combat games and tab-target games.
It's all about the aiming. One is manual, one is automatic. That is literally it. That is the only defining feature of the two combat systems.
I've played action combat games without dodging and blocking. I've played tab target games with tons of movement. Hell, when I played WildStar, an action combat game, the majority of the PvE I experienced (granted, all low level) it was more efficient to stand still than it was to dodge or move in any way.
Even the way we use the terms, tab-target and action combat, fits with my breakdown. We use the term "action combat" to mean the opposite of "tab-target", so it's all about the targeting.
Action combat = you have to manually aim Tab Target = you automatically aim
Thats the only difference. Whoever was talking about tab-targetting meaning you always stand still in combat is an idiot, that's never been the case.
Except that wasn't the gist of what was said. I get that its self-serving and convenient to pick and chose the one little sentence that fits your narrow narrative to try to make a point. What was said was that sometimes each combat style bleeds into each other. So yes there are obviously times one can move while in tab target combat. But there are also times one can not. Correct? No one, in their right mind, can deny that in many tab target combat games the range/caster types are grounded and unable to move while casting their abilities. In those cases, the player is, in fact, standing still.
I am also pretty certain that there where other MMORPGS, especially of the early era, in which both melee and range characters were unable to move while in combat. If for nothing else, simply because the technology did not allow it. There are, however, no instances in which melee or range characters are unable to move while in Action Combat. Hence, the name ACTION COMBAT.
The ability to be able to press the WASD keys and be able to move around between stationary pressed key skill attacks alone does not make it not Tab Target. It equally does not specifically define it as Action Combat. It is simply a variation, or hybrid, of both combat styles. Obviously, there are many variations to combat in MMOs but there is a distinct and fundamental difference between action combat and tab target combat that is easily recognizable to those without a biased point of view.
The only idiots here are those who throw out specific blanket claims such as ...
Action combat = you have to manually aim Tab Target = you automatically aim
I mean, what does that mean? It defines nothing. It is just a simplistically silly and narrow definition that doesn't give justice to the true and sometimes complicated, varied, and intermingling, nature of both combat styles.
Again, if you are manually able to block, dodge, parry, aim or otherwise be mobile while targeting, attacking, and/or defending, that is ACTION COMBAT. If you are locking unto a target and assigning skill points that allow for the game to perform, or in any way, execute these actions (in RNG fashion) for you, as is the case with most, if not all, of the early era MMORPGs, then that is tab target. Most of us have experienced, and/or at least seen, the evolution of combat from Tab Target Combat to Action Combat. The definition is in the name. Its not rocket science. I really don't get what about ACTION COMBAT is so hard for some to understand. Some of you are reading too much into it.
Thats the thing though, my really simplistic breakdown is the only common thing in action combat games and tab-target games.
It's all about the aiming. One is manual, one is automatic. That is literally it. That is the only defining feature of the two combat systems.
I've played action combat games without dodging and blocking. I've played tab target games with tons of movement. Hell, when I played WildStar, an action combat game, the majority of the PvE I experienced (granted, all low level) it was more efficient to stand still than it was to dodge or move in any way.
Even the way we use the terms, tab-target and action combat, fits with my breakdown. We use the term "action combat" to mean the opposite of "tab-target", so it's all about the targeting.
I can give just one example off the top of my head that renders your definition void. In ESO, one can automatically tab target a mob, just like any other automatic tab target game, and the targeting and trajectory of the attack will be no different than any other tab target game. Yet in ESO, after doing so, the player can also manually dodge, block, parry, and otherwise freely move and attack and or defend while being actively mobile. By your definition, the fact that one can simply automatically tab the target, makes ESO a Tab Target Combat game. I think most would disagree with that assessment. For the sake of brevity, that is just one example off the top of my head. It would also be interesting to hear of those games that you classify as Action Combat in which you do not manually dodge or block. A game in which you can not freely and manually dodge and block is not a game that can be justifiably classified as Action Combat. It simply does not meet the basic Action Combat standard.
The first issue I always have is a lack of skills. Something like ESO with 6 skills on your bar, or Wildstar with 10.....boring! I mean seriously, how do you guys not get bored within a few hours?
Yeah, I'll have to disagree with you on that.
I want less skills to no skills.
IF it's "fantasy/medieval" I want to hit and dodge and block. More like Mount and Blade I suppose.
Ranged, archery, no skills, just draw the bow and shoot.
Magic is a different bird all together and there of course it makes sense.
If it's something that is sci-fi or western then same thing. Aim, shoot, hide, dodge.
All that other stuff always seems like fluff.
Ah, I love my skills!
I want to stab, slash and hack. I want to aim for your head, your arms, your torso, your legs. I want to target arteries. I want to block, or parry. I want to counter. I want to use my off-hand to compliment my attacks. I want to do feints. I want wild AoE swings. I want to be able to sweep your legs. I want to kick you in the nuts.
A keyboard and mouse, or a gamepad, are incapable of allowing me to directly control my character's movements to allow me to do those things.
So, skills. Skills allow my character to do some really elaborate stuff, stuff that is impossible to do via direct control. That is a bonus for me right off the bat - the combat looks better and feels more special.
The next is the depth that lots of skills can offer. I realise that most people don't share my preference for depth in combat, they prefer their depth to exist in the meta-game and for the combat to remain shallow. I want my brain to be engaged when I'm playing a game. I like my choices to matter. I like the outcome of a fight to be based on my ability to make the correct choices whilst under pressure, to be able to think my way out of a situation.
If my brain isn't engaged then the shelf life of a game just becomes too short. I get excited about the world, the graphics, the loot, the guilds, just like everyone else. But, once that excitement wears off, which it inevitably does, I still want to be playing a game with real substance and engagement. I don't want to just be going through the motions, which is how I feel every time I'm playing an action combat game.
This is more personal preference than anything. Some people like MOBAs other FPS, others like playing street fighter in RPGS, others like my dont care for the street fighter combat of Action combat games.
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
Which is the majority system used by gamers today
Yes, and how can we believe anything credible related to action combat vs tab target from the same poster who assertively argued vehemently that ESO is also a tab target combat game. Apparently, according to the above said poster, every game is a tab target combat game.
Don't feel too bad. According to this thread, you ain't alone.
ESO is a tab target type of game though, why is that even in contention? action combat is a completely different type of gameplay, whether you press a key to dodge or not has no relevance and does not make a game action combat. One example of an Action Combat game is BDO, the most obvious example of a tab target game is WoW, there is however a lot of games that fall somewhere in between these two types of games, but if you had to say which one ESO is closer to it would be WoW, not BDO.
ESO is a hybrid which is an important distinction that apparently everyone is missing in this discussion. GW2 is also a hybrid. But ESO has soft lock targeting, meaning you need to aim and it will soft lock onto whatever mob you're aiming at, but moving your crosshair will either target a different mob or nothing at all. There is a button to lock onto a target I think, but I've never used it and I don't think most do. On top of that, they do have manual block and dodge buttons which will cause you to avoid a hit if timed properly. Even NPC's do this. BDO has a similar type of assisted aiming soft lock system, although IMO it's easier to both aim and dodge hits in ESO because there's less spam and more accurately designed skill animations, compared to the huge AoEs and fast paced animations of BDO. Also ESO's active defenses are better than BDO (and sometimes in BDO you can't avoid a hit at all right? It's been a while).
GW2 has a hybrid system as well in that it will auto target a mob or player similar to tab targeting, but hit in GW2 is purely based on the animations actually hitting your mob. So this could mean the player or mob dodges, or it could also mean they just walk out of the way of the animation.
I feel like this discussion needs this old gem to get things going in a more accurate direction:
So let's break down our options here. We have targeting method, hit detection, and manual vs stat based defenses. These are the major factors that differ between games and determine what sort of game it is - pure action combat, pure tab target, or some type of hybrid.
Targeting:
Non-targeting - like most, but not all of TERA's attacks for example. Here you don't need a target to use a skill. Instead, the skill has a fixed animation that will play out wherever you aim your crosshair or character. This is animation based targeting, meaning an animation needs to physically come into contact with a player or mob to register hit. It's more complicated technically to achieve, I believe also causes lag, and in general is not seen much.
Assisted Aim/Soft Lock - The game will auto target whatever your crosshair/mouse is generally aiming at within a fairly wide area. Forgiving method of targeting that allows you to aim without needing fps abilities. Has nothing to do with whether or not you'll actually hit the target, merely helps you to aim at it. Widely used in modern MMO's such as ESO, Blade and Soul, Black Desert, etc.
GW2 uses both of the above. It's a complicated combat system.
Tab targeting - You cannot aim and target like soft lock targeting. You must manually click or tab to acquire a target before using any abilities. The game will NOT auto target based on what you're looking at. This is a direct result of the hit detection method used in these games.
Hit Detection and Defenses: this is what determines whether you actually hit your target or not
Soft lock/assisted aim with manual defenses - ESO, BnS, , Black Desert, and GW2 for some skills (I believe mostly just the basic attacks and other similar projectiles?) all use this. There are no hit/evade, etc. stats. Hit is automatic unless the target uses a manual block, dodge, or other counter/evade ability.
Animation based - The attack animation is key here. Hit is determined when the attack animation of your spell or weapon physically comes into contact with the target, and also takes into account active defenses (block, dodge) employed by the target. TERA and GW2 use this. Yes GW2 is complicated, but most abilities use this method in that game - ones with clear attack animations and not just fireballs flying through the air. It's easy to tell and makes far more sense when you play the game.
Stat based - WoW, FFXIV, traditional tab targeting MMO's. Most abilities use player and mob stats to determine hit. Exceptions are AoEs which use hit box systems similar to the above more actiony styles.
Edit: To further explain my comment above about "This is a direct result of the hit detection method used in these games." for tab targeting, let me say this. The game needs your target first because it looks at the stats of both parties to determine hit before the animation plays out. The animation is useless and pure fluff. The outcome is determined as soon as you hit the ability button. This is the defining factor of the standard tab target games.
Now to further delve into this, look at something like Secret World Legends. We all know from the original versions of The Secret World, that the game started out with standard tab targeting, except with a dodge roll. In SW:L they added a crosshair and this is now soft lock targeting. From this example, you can see that a lot of the back end stuff is clearly similar between soft lock and tab targeting - so yay you're all half right on that argument. It's merely minor changes that we see here that change it into a game that doesn't automatically lock onto your target, and instead uses a cross hair instead of mouse or tab to find the target. Minor details make a big difference.
The bigger problem - and IMO what is the big item that determines action or hybrid vs pure tab target - is the defenses used to determine hit detection. SWL still has standard WoW style stats to determine this. So while it's a hybrid combat system at this point, it most definitely leans more towards the tab target end and I think most action combat fans would not enjoy SWL's combat for that reason.
I am assuming stat based defenses vs manual is a larger change to make and something you need to do from the beginning of development. They do have a dodge roll to avoid big attacks, however. But that's more of a physical movement and not a iframe. The game does still have a hit stat, evade stat, etc. Compare to something like ESO which does not.
they really need to stop calling everything that's not classical tab target action combat.. and be more descriptive in what they want. i mean every forum is littered with the "i hate tab target, make it action combat" comments.
I just insert the term SPAM for the term ACTION because that is all i have seen from it.
You know back in the day during the FPS haydays or Quake and unreal,we used to scoff at SPAM ,like people really hated it ,now a days people adore it,no thinking,no challenge just spam away at easy trash fodder.
You can even look at moba's,they stick those sucky minions in the game to give that FODDER to all those people that think EASY gaming is fun. I am not saying gaming or combat needs to be super difficult but it should look way more realistic and not just SPAMMY because i don't NEED to sit there and hit my keyboard mouse non stop,especially with these noisy ass mechanical keyboards.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I believe there is a difference between pressing a key at the right time and having an automatic dodge or block of damage and actually avoiding contact with something. Targeting through visual means is very much like tab targeting except you don't tab or click on the target to select them. They are automatically selected depending on if you are looking at them. I don't think we have seen any combat in MMOs that requires dodging, blocking, etc. that is based on weather or not actual contact is made. IT appears to just be real time turn based combat that is portrayed as action combat that you might find in a single player action RPG.
The first issue I always have is a lack of skills. Something like ESO with 6 skills on your bar, or Wildstar with 10.....boring! I mean seriously, how do you guys not get bored within a few hours?
Yeah, I'll have to disagree with you on that.
I want less skills to no skills.
IF it's "fantasy/medieval" I want to hit and dodge and block. More like Mount and Blade I suppose.
Ranged, archery, no skills, just draw the bow and shoot.
Magic is a different bird all together and there of course it makes sense.
If it's something that is sci-fi or western then same thing. Aim, shoot, hide, dodge.
All that other stuff always seems like fluff.
Not to dare adventuring into a semantic quibble, but in a sense you are still relying on skills. The main difference is that those skills are contextualized to specific actions.
BDO has an example of this with the way they map all their abilities into combos so that if you know the contextual sequence of actions (combos), you can perform an attack chain without ever touching the hotbar. They also offer the ability to slot those same skills onto a hotbar to remove the necessity of their albeit shallow contextualization, giving the player the ability to meter how they approach the game's level of interactivity.
And that's something I very much like, but don't see too much done with. I like the ability to embed a great level of depth into contextual scenarios and sequences. It allows for a higher potential level of gameplay complexity than a quickbar's limited slots could offer, and also dodges having to overpopulate the screen with UI clutter. Both for visuals and for gameplay functionality I really enjoy the concept as it can drive a much more natural feeling into how one approaches playing.
i think hybrid is the best. player can change depends on their mood
1. like bdo action combat (but have auto hold right mouse and press again to stop auto attack, i hate holding right mouse) 2. like gw2 tab target 3. like gw2 but auto skill (like simulation, player just assign what skill to use on every mobs, player just choose to attack and walk)
in short pvp game, i prefer action combat for precise gameplay, but for leveling, i prefer tab target for relaxing
Altho i play and enjoy both .. I find the action games just easier spam fests with simplified systems .. ...BDO being a shining example of this turd like spam fest .. Helen Keller could PVE that game with a 10 minute K+M lesson ..
Also,Tab -Targeting is still used more in MMORPGs by a very large margin .. Its not even close
Might want to prove your point, not just make it.
The ratio of games deploying action combat over tab targeting is at least 10-1 if not a whole lot more. You can probably name MMORPGs that utilize tab targeting with one hand. Right off the top of my head ... WoW, FF series ... and err ... (draws a blank) .....
Action Combat on the other hand ... (points to almost entirety of "Games Tab" on this forum).
tell ya what .. go over to the drop down , look at the games that have Tab Target and action .. check there players numbers .. it wont even be close .. matter a fact Lineage and Wow alone have more players than all the Action MMORPGs combined
off the top of my head ..
WOW FF14 FF11 Lineage Lineage2 Guild Wars UO Anarchy Online EQ EQ2 Secrwt World Aion Age of Wushu Allods Regnum Online Project Gorgon Maple Story Manbinogi LOTRO Rift DDO STO Fallen Earth Xyson Knight Online Fiesta Online Dofus Atlantica Champions DC Universe Dark Age of Camelot Eve Villagers and Heores Wakfu Dragon Nest Voyage Century Online Tree of Life Tree of Savior SWTOR Tibia but i digress
I don't understand the above post. Most of those games employ action combat.
Most of those games are tab target, the most obvious examples are bolded. Clearly you have not played most of them.
It's also missing a ton of games which aren't on the list which still exist, or have died off... Age of Conan, Arceage, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, and Guild Wars 2 being three obvious examples. Others like Pantheon are in development.
Most MMORPGs - and especially most AAA MMORPGs have been tab targeted. I think the Bless Online developers have stated that Tab Target MMORPGs have been most successful, which is why they went with that despite criticism that it would see "old school." They aren't hte only developers that have public stated that tab targeting appeals to more MMORPG players, either.
So I'm not sure how this is "comedy gold."
You're free to act like you know the facts on a forum, when you clearly don't, but the people actually spending money to develop these games are saying otherwise. The only games readily moving to this Action (pseudo-FPS) combat are those who are focused primarily on PvP and trying to bring in players from FPS genres, as the choices available to traditional MMORPG players is saturated at this point (but so is the Action Combat MMORPG space now, as well).
However, that is getting increasingly difficult as FPS games are incorporating more and More MMORPG elements, while having way better... FPS gameplay than the "Action Combat" MMORPGs.
A lot of people confuse "dynamic combat" with "action combat" and a lot of companies make it seem like they are the same (for PR). Making the game so that you have to pay attention and aren't just turreting from one spot is good. This is doable with both tab targeting and "FPS-like" combat system.
That's, frankly, exactly what those games are implementing - in an attempt tot leach players from that genre due to the saturation of MMORPGs on the market spreading the core audience thin.
MMOs like ESO (to use another example) are nearly indistinguishable to me from FPS games. They just require 10x as many buttons to play. Why should I bother to play that when I can play Destiny II and get better PvE and still play PvP, for example?
And the Dodge fest that is GW2 has seen a lot of criticism from this. The majority of your surviveability depends on how fast you can dodge, since even trash MOBs do inordinate amounts of HP. It's literally all the game is about - anticipating and dodging. They talk about this like it's what end-game gameplay is balanced around on their own website.
In any case, Tab Targetting continues to be more widely accepted by MMORPG players than Action Combat, which is why developers are actually starting to backtrack back to it - even though some of the loud voices on the forums call it "old style." A lot of the Action Combat FAD has to do with the "appearance" of evolution and the attempts to rope in gamers from other genres to grow the market.
I cannot say that it has been very successful.
A non tab targeting system, at its core is about "not getting hit"/"blocking" and "hitting".
That's what's exciting about it. If you don't like it great, no reason you should. But that's what it's about.
Tab targeting is "not" more widely accepted by mmorpg players and by proof developers are going back to it.
"some developers are making old school games and are trying to recreate that old school feel.
But not many as there really aren't a lot of Western Mmorpg's being made at the moment.
I don't agree. Games in development for release in 2018 are increasingly more tab-target oriented than they have been "recently," when Action Combat became a huge FAD. Also, action combat works well for some archetypes, and badly for others. I think for melee and archer it works great. It doesn't work nearly as well for spell casters and healers.
What I'm stating is what has been stated by developers in interviews, usually in response to criticism from people who complain about anything that isn't "Action Combat," not my personal opinion.
Personally, I don't care as most of my gaming has moved away from MMORPGs, due to the massive amount of saturation and the increasingly fickle player base; making all games a risky investment (of player time and money) with volatile viability. It's actually pretty common for games to lose half of their player bases within months of release, these days. Players are no longer getting into these games with long-term aspirations, which makes for a volatile environment for those who do.
To be brutally honest, I feel more comfortable playing other genres at the moment. I feel like they are a much better use of my free time.
I don't see a point in playing an MMORPG for a few months and then moving on, but that's how so many MMORPG players play these games these days. Then they come back a year (or two) later and "wish it was like it used to be," despite contributing to what it has become and removing themselves from the community feedback loop earlier in the game's development/history...
Western companies don't have much incentive to develop these types of games, and it's the players' fault. In most cases, they are cash sinks. That is why cash shops are here to stay, and in competitive games P2W is always going to be the nuclear option for the companies running them.
Its rich of you to make yourself a victim in this matter, choosing to ignore why it all came to pass in the first place. But that's cool, I won't rehash it. This is a game site forum and really just not worth it. We are all gamers here to enjoy the content provided to us by this cool gaming website, exchange opinions and ideas, and just generally have all around honest debate and dialogue regarding the games that we all love and enjoy.
What I will do instead, is extend an olive branch. I may express a difference of opinion from time to time with the various posters on this site but I carry no grudges. Often has been the time that a poster and I have disagreed passionately regarding a particular subject, only to agree wholeheartedly on a different day, matter, and subject, and have a "lovefest" praising each others point of view thereafter.
What I find exception to from time to time is blatant dishonesty, hypocrisy, or just an overall general lack of integrity and disregard in posting. And when I see it in obvious display, I feel compelled to call it out, as should all of us. Particularly when a poster was condescending in the process.
There is enough riff raff going on in this forum with legitimate differences based on opinions and personal preferences. We do not need posters exacerbating these disagreements of opinion and preferences with blatant untruths and misinformation for the single, self-serving, purpose of maligning and/or criticizing another person or game.
That said, I don't know you well at all and it was a single incident. You seem sincere enough so as far as I'm concerned its in the past. You are obviously welcomed to disagree with my opinions on any posts created by me, as is the case with any other poster. I welcome and enjoy debating with the various posters on this forum. More often than not, I learn something new. All I ask is for a little honesty and integrity while posting, which is mostly the case, but sometimes the lack of both creeps through. I harbor no ill will.
i think hybrid is the best. player can change depends on their mood
1. like bdo action combat (but have auto hold right mouse and press again to stop auto attack, i hate holding right mouse) 2. like gw2 tab target 3. like gw2 but auto skill (like simulation, player just assign what skill to use on every mobs, player just choose to attack and walk)
in short pvp game, i prefer action combat for precise gameplay, but for leveling, i prefer tab target for relaxing
Umm, just wanted to say that GW2, I called it "Assisted Action Combat", but it's called "Snap Targeting" in their UI.
Basically you "Snap" target to the closest target to you, that your pointer is facing. Also with Melee, they use Hit Box targeting, IE: You hit everything in your area of Swing.
That kind of system IMHO, is far superior to "True Action Combat" which, truth be told, is not well liked anyway, if it was as widely beloved as some people make it out to be, Aim Bot programs would not be as prevalent or as profitable as they are, and yet they are a million dollar business.
As I see it, Aim Bots are like Phone Sex Lines, no one admits to using them, yet they make millions.. because.. you know.. no one uses them..
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I prefer free aim combat like Darkfall UW and Dragon's Nest. There aren't much in the MMO genre really. They def make for a higher ceiling than most of the other forms of tab target or hybrid action. Other than Darkfall UW, I also like the hybrid type in GW2. I don't really enjoy full on tab target anymore as many make you hold down the right mouse button for no good reason.
What so high skill about action combat? (Like black desert online)
When someone suggest tab target 'option' on black desert online, u will see this reply
'git good', nab, world of warcraft miss u, go back to gw2
Aiming doesn't make you better than tab target player.
i know action combat is fun, but it need high concentration. its mind tiring. and for mmorpg that need a lot of grinding, tab target option is crucial.
with tab target option, players can use tab target and auto attack for grinding mobs.
while action combat can be use in pvp for better combat result.
my suggestion of auto attack on black desert online is just like a holding assist. click once to start attack and click again to stop auto attack.
I wouldn't say that action combat is "high skill" by default. It's another layer that has to be considered.
An action combat game can have all of the skill types that a Tab targeting MMO does, and then has the additional layers of aiming, movement, and quick reaction on top of that. However, CAN have and DOES have are certainly not the same thing. Most action games are substantially less complex than Tab target MMOs. Even those action combat MMOs that started off trying to have just as much complexity have generally been dumbed down over time for ease of play as they were often considered overwhelming for average players (e.g. TERA has repeatedly streamlined to make the game more accessible, though that's offset by WoW and Rift dumbing down gameplay too).
Of all the games out right now, I would say only Blade & Soul has both fast action combat and the complex class and skill design of traditional "high skill" Tab target games. To me it was by far the most skillful MMO on the market requiring a player to have every aspect of gaming skill to excel. Unfortunately, it's been ruined by P2W and lack of content that made it incredibly repetitive.
Real Action combat requires higher mechanical skill than Tab Targeting.
Tab Targetting tends to rely on mechanical rotations (FFXIV) or Skill Prioritization (WoW, EQ[2]). Action Combat tends to rely more on skill chaining, timing, and position (to a greater extent).
It does take more skill, when it's actually action combat.
The issue is that the majority of MMORPGs that claim to have Action combat do not have action combat.
All they have is pseudo FPS combat with fancy animations.
I don't think putting a reticle in a game makes it action combat. The only thing you've done, is made it so that the game engine does the tab targeting for the player. WoW players have been doing this for years, with mouseover macros.
Reading more of this thread, it seems that "Tab Targeting" and "Action Combat" are kind of misused, in my opinion. The difference for me is not about how one acquires a target, but rather how the fight plays out.
Tab target MMOs I could chat during combat. Actually type in the group chat window. This I can not do in "action combat" games. This is the difference for me, not pointy clicky on targets or tab to the next one.
Action means busy, almost non-stop button/key pressing. The opposite would be Inaction, like sitting like a lump on a log, not Tab Target. In WoW, I sometimes had 2 bars full buttons to push, thus making it an "action combat" game even though I tab targeted, in my opinion.
Because of this, trying to argue the merits of 2 NOT opposite styles is kind of silly, don't you think? Lots of tab target games I consider action combat, because I am constantly pressing keys/buttons, thus creating continuous action on my part.
I'm not sure what the opposite of tab targeting combat would be, but action combat just doesn't seem to fit the bill, in my opinion.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I wouldn't say that action combat is "high skill" by default. It's another layer that has to be considered.
An action combat game can have all of the skill types that a Tab targeting MMO does, and then has the additional layers of aiming, movement, and quick reaction on top of that. However, CAN have and DOES have are certainly not the same thing. Most action games are substantially less complex than Tab target MMOs. Even those action combat MMOs that started off trying to have just as much complexity have generally been dumbed down over time for ease of play as they were often considered overwhelming for average players (e.g. TERA has repeatedly streamlined to make the game more accessible, though that's offset by WoW and Rift dumbing down gameplay too).
Of all the games out right now, I would say only Blade & Soul has both fast action combat and the complex class and skill design of traditional "high skill" Tab target games. To me it was by far the most skillful MMO on the market requiring a player to have every aspect of gaming skill to excel. Unfortunately, it's been ruined by P2W and lack of content that made it incredibly repetitive.
The dumbing down of combat mechanics have nothing to do with action combat, it is just a general trend the last 10 years that most games do in an attempt to get more players. I don't think it actually works in most cases either but some games have clunky mechanics at launch and streamlining them doesn't hurt. In other cases is it generally bad but most people hardly notices it since they also tend to lower the difficulty so much.
The opposite of action combat is turned based combat, not tab target combat though which is in between. The extremes go more like this: FPS styled combat- Action combat - Tab targeted combat - Turned based combat. Each of those have advantages and disadvantages and works best for some settings and terrible for others.
For instance if you want to make a Vietnam War MMO you would use FPS combat, the other 3 would suck. If you instead want to make a 3 musketeer MMO action combat would work best. Tab targetting is best in a bit slower tactical games while turned based combat can give you most combat options without overloading the players.
None of the systems in itself is better or worse then the others but they will not be equally good for s specific game. Also, you can do a better or worse job implementing said system in your game.
Comments
With an MMO you aren't getting twitch based combat. You are getting a simulation of twitch based combat due to latency issues. With such a system there are ways to do it well and ways to do it poorly. I am not too much a fan of button mashing that you do a lot in these games. I prefer something like Vindictus or Mabinogi where you need a bit of good positioning and timing. I also prefer it where you aren't killing hordes of enemies since having 1 good battle beats out having 1000 shitty battles.
Except that wasn't the gist of what was said. I get that its self-serving and convenient to pick and chose the one little sentence that fits your narrow narrative to try to make a point. What was said was that sometimes each combat style bleeds into each other. So yes there are obviously times one can move while in tab target combat. But there are also times one can not. Correct? No one, in their right mind, can deny that in many tab target combat games the range/caster types are grounded and unable to move while casting their abilities. In those cases, the player is, in fact, standing still.
I am also pretty certain that there where other MMORPGS, especially of the early era, in which both melee and range characters were unable to move while in combat. If for nothing else, simply because the technology did not allow it. There are, however, no instances in which melee or range characters are unable to move while in Action Combat. Hence, the name ACTION COMBAT.
The ability to be able to press the WASD keys and be able to move around between stationary pressed key skill attacks alone does not make it not Tab Target. It equally does not specifically define it as Action Combat. It is simply a variation, or hybrid, of both combat styles. Obviously, there are many variations to combat in MMOs but there is a distinct and fundamental difference between action combat and tab target combat that is easily recognizable to those without a biased point of view.
The only idiots here are those who throw out specific blanket claims such as ...
Action combat = you have to manually aim
Tab Target = you automatically aim
I mean, what does that mean? It defines nothing. It is just a simplistically silly and narrow definition that doesn't give justice to the true and sometimes complicated, varied, and intermingling, nature of both combat styles.
Again, if you are manually able to block, dodge, parry, aim or otherwise be mobile while targeting, attacking, and/or defending, that is ACTION COMBAT. If you are locking unto a target and assigning skill points that allow for the game to perform, or in any way, execute these actions (in RNG fashion) for you, as is the case with most, if not all, of the early era MMORPGs, then that is tab target. Most of us have experienced, and/or at least seen, the evolution of combat from Tab Target Combat to Action Combat. The definition is in the name. Its not rocket science. I really don't get what about ACTION COMBAT is so hard for some to understand. Some of you are reading too much into it.
That doesn't mean everyone else has to be forced to play as I do. It just means I won't play action combat games anymore.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It's all about the aiming. One is manual, one is automatic. That is literally it. That is the only defining feature of the two combat systems.
I've played action combat games without dodging and blocking. I've played tab target games with tons of movement. Hell, when I played WildStar, an action combat game, the majority of the PvE I experienced (granted, all low level) it was more efficient to stand still than it was to dodge or move in any way.
Even the way we use the terms, tab-target and action combat, fits with my breakdown. We use the term "action combat" to mean the opposite of "tab-target", so it's all about the targeting.
I can give just one example off the top of my head that renders your definition void. In ESO, one can automatically tab target a mob, just like any other automatic tab target game, and the targeting and trajectory of the attack will be no different than any other tab target game. Yet in ESO, after doing so, the player can also manually dodge, block, parry, and otherwise freely move and attack and or defend while being actively mobile. By your definition, the fact that one can simply automatically tab the target, makes ESO a Tab Target Combat game. I think most would disagree with that assessment. For the sake of brevity, that is just one example off the top of my head. It would also be interesting to hear of those games that you classify as Action Combat in which you do not manually dodge or block. A game in which you can not freely and manually dodge and block is not a game that can be justifiably classified as Action Combat. It simply does not meet the basic Action Combat standard.
I want to stab, slash and hack. I want to aim for your head, your arms, your torso, your legs. I want to target arteries. I want to block, or parry. I want to counter. I want to use my off-hand to compliment my attacks. I want to do feints. I want wild AoE swings. I want to be able to sweep your legs. I want to kick you in the nuts.
A keyboard and mouse, or a gamepad, are incapable of allowing me to directly control my character's movements to allow me to do those things.
So, skills. Skills allow my character to do some really elaborate stuff, stuff that is impossible to do via direct control. That is a bonus for me right off the bat - the combat looks better and feels more special.
The next is the depth that lots of skills can offer. I realise that most people don't share my preference for depth in combat, they prefer their depth to exist in the meta-game and for the combat to remain shallow. I want my brain to be engaged when I'm playing a game. I like my choices to matter. I like the outcome of a fight to be based on my ability to make the correct choices whilst under pressure, to be able to think my way out of a situation.
If my brain isn't engaged then the shelf life of a game just becomes too short. I get excited about the world, the graphics, the loot, the guilds, just like everyone else. But, once that excitement wears off, which it inevitably does, I still want to be playing a game with real substance and engagement. I don't want to just be going through the motions, which is how I feel every time I'm playing an action combat game.
GW2 has a hybrid system as well in that it will auto target a mob or player similar to tab targeting, but hit in GW2 is purely based on the animations actually hitting your mob. So this could mean the player or mob dodges, or it could also mean they just walk out of the way of the animation.
I feel like this discussion needs this old gem to get things going in a more accurate direction:
Targeting:
Non-targeting - like most, but not all of TERA's attacks for example. Here you don't need a target to use a skill. Instead, the skill has a fixed animation that will play out wherever you aim your crosshair or character. This is animation based targeting, meaning an animation needs to physically come into contact with a player or mob to register hit. It's more complicated technically to achieve, I believe also causes lag, and in general is not seen much.
Assisted Aim/Soft Lock - The game will auto target whatever your crosshair/mouse is generally aiming at within a fairly wide area. Forgiving method of targeting that allows you to aim without needing fps abilities. Has nothing to do with whether or not you'll actually hit the target, merely helps you to aim at it. Widely used in modern MMO's such as ESO, Blade and Soul, Black Desert, etc.
GW2 uses both of the above. It's a complicated combat system.
Tab targeting - You cannot aim and target like soft lock targeting. You must manually click or tab to acquire a target before using any abilities. The game will NOT auto target based on what you're looking at. This is a direct result of the hit detection method used in these games.
Hit Detection and Defenses: this is what determines whether you actually hit your target or not
Soft lock/assisted aim with manual defenses - ESO, BnS, , Black Desert, and GW2 for some skills (I believe mostly just the basic attacks and other similar projectiles?) all use this. There are no hit/evade, etc. stats. Hit is automatic unless the target uses a manual block, dodge, or other counter/evade ability.
Animation based - The attack animation is key here. Hit is determined when the attack animation of your spell or weapon physically comes into contact with the target, and also takes into account active defenses (block, dodge) employed by the target. TERA and GW2 use this. Yes GW2 is complicated, but most abilities use this method in that game - ones with clear attack animations and not just fireballs flying through the air. It's easy to tell and makes far more sense when you play the game.
Stat based - WoW, FFXIV, traditional tab targeting MMO's. Most abilities use player and mob stats to determine hit. Exceptions are AoEs which use hit box systems similar to the above more actiony styles.
Edit: To further explain my comment above about "This is a direct result of the hit detection method used in these games." for tab targeting, let me say this. The game needs your target first because it looks at the stats of both parties to determine hit before the animation plays out. The animation is useless and pure fluff. The outcome is determined as soon as you hit the ability button. This is the defining factor of the standard tab target games.
Now to further delve into this, look at something like Secret World Legends. We all know from the original versions of The Secret World, that the game started out with standard tab targeting, except with a dodge roll. In SW:L they added a crosshair and this is now soft lock targeting. From this example, you can see that a lot of the back end stuff is clearly similar between soft lock and tab targeting - so yay you're all half right on that argument. It's merely minor changes that we see here that change it into a game that doesn't automatically lock onto your target, and instead uses a cross hair instead of mouse or tab to find the target. Minor details make a big difference.
The bigger problem - and IMO what is the big item that determines action or hybrid vs pure tab target - is the defenses used to determine hit detection. SWL still has standard WoW style stats to determine this. So while it's a hybrid combat system at this point, it most definitely leans more towards the tab target end and I think most action combat fans would not enjoy SWL's combat for that reason.
I am assuming stat based defenses vs manual is a larger change to make and something you need to do from the beginning of development. They do have a dodge roll to avoid big attacks, however. But that's more of a physical movement and not a iframe. The game does still have a hit stat, evade stat, etc. Compare to something like ESO which does not.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
You know back in the day during the FPS haydays or Quake and unreal,we used to scoff at SPAM ,like people really hated it ,now a days people adore it,no thinking,no challenge just spam away at easy trash fodder.
You can even look at moba's,they stick those sucky minions in the game to give that FODDER to all those people that think EASY gaming is fun.
I am not saying gaming or combat needs to be super difficult but it should look way more realistic and not just SPAMMY because i don't NEED to sit there and hit my keyboard mouse non stop,especially with these noisy ass mechanical keyboards.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
BDO has an example of this with the way they map all their abilities into combos so that if you know the contextual sequence of actions (combos), you can perform an attack chain without ever touching the hotbar. They also offer the ability to slot those same skills onto a hotbar to remove the necessity of their albeit shallow contextualization, giving the player the ability to meter how they approach the game's level of interactivity.
And that's something I very much like, but don't see too much done with. I like the ability to embed a great level of depth into contextual scenarios and sequences. It allows for a higher potential level of gameplay complexity than a quickbar's limited slots could offer, and also dodges having to overpopulate the screen with UI clutter. Both for visuals and for gameplay functionality I really enjoy the concept as it can drive a much more natural feeling into how one approaches playing.
1. like bdo action combat (but have auto hold right mouse and press again to stop auto attack, i hate holding right mouse)
2. like gw2 tab target
3. like gw2 but auto skill (like simulation, player just assign what skill to use on every mobs, player just choose to attack and walk)
in short pvp game, i prefer action combat for precise gameplay, but for leveling, i prefer tab target for relaxing
It's also missing a ton of games which aren't on the list which still exist, or have died off... Age of Conan, Arceage, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, and Guild Wars 2 being three obvious examples. Others like Pantheon are in development.
Most MMORPGs - and especially most AAA MMORPGs have been tab targeted. I think the Bless Online developers have stated that Tab Target MMORPGs have been most successful, which is why they went with that despite criticism that it would see "old school." They aren't hte only developers that have public stated that tab targeting appeals to more MMORPG players, either.
So I'm not sure how this is "comedy gold."
You're free to act like you know the facts on a forum, when you clearly don't, but the people actually spending money to develop these games are saying otherwise. The only games readily moving to this Action (pseudo-FPS) combat are those who are focused primarily on PvP and trying to bring in players from FPS genres, as the choices available to traditional MMORPG players is saturated at this point (but so is the Action Combat MMORPG space now, as well).
However, that is getting increasingly difficult as FPS games are incorporating more and More MMORPG elements, while having way better... FPS gameplay than the "Action Combat" MMORPGs.
I don't agree. Games in development for release in 2018 are increasingly more tab-target oriented than they have been "recently," when Action Combat became a huge FAD. Also, action combat works well for some archetypes, and badly for others. I think for melee and archer it works great. It doesn't work nearly as well for spell casters and healers.
What I'm stating is what has been stated by developers in interviews, usually in response to criticism from people who complain about anything that isn't "Action Combat," not my personal opinion.
Personally, I don't care as most of my gaming has moved away from MMORPGs, due to the massive amount of saturation and the increasingly fickle player base; making all games a risky investment (of player time and money) with volatile viability. It's actually pretty common for games to lose half of their player bases within months of release, these days. Players are no longer getting into these games with long-term aspirations, which makes for a volatile environment for those who do.
To be brutally honest, I feel more comfortable playing other genres at the moment. I feel like they are a much better use of my free time.
I don't see a point in playing an MMORPG for a few months and then moving on, but that's how so many MMORPG players play these games these days. Then they come back a year (or two) later and "wish it was like it used to be," despite contributing to what it has become and removing themselves from the community feedback loop earlier in the game's development/history...
Western companies don't have much incentive to develop these types of games, and it's the players' fault. In most cases, they are cash sinks. That is why cash shops are here to stay, and in competitive games P2W is always going to be the nuclear option for the companies running them.
Its rich of you to make yourself a victim in this matter, choosing to ignore why it all came to pass in the first place. But that's cool, I won't rehash it. This is a game site forum and really just not worth it. We are all gamers here to enjoy the content provided to us by this cool gaming website, exchange opinions and ideas, and just generally have all around honest debate and dialogue regarding the games that we all love and enjoy.
What I will do instead, is extend an olive branch. I may express a difference of opinion from time to time with the various posters on this site but I carry no grudges. Often has been the time that a poster and I have disagreed passionately regarding a particular subject, only to agree wholeheartedly on a different day, matter, and subject, and have a "lovefest" praising each others point of view thereafter.
What I find exception to from time to time is blatant dishonesty, hypocrisy, or just an overall general lack of integrity and disregard in posting. And when I see it in obvious display, I feel compelled to call it out, as should all of us. Particularly when a poster was condescending in the process.
There is enough riff raff going on in this forum with legitimate differences based on opinions and personal preferences. We do not need posters exacerbating these disagreements of opinion and preferences with blatant untruths and misinformation for the single, self-serving, purpose of maligning and/or criticizing another person or game.
That said, I don't know you well at all and it was a single incident. You seem sincere enough so as far as I'm concerned its in the past. You are obviously welcomed to disagree with my opinions on any posts created by me, as is the case with any other poster. I welcome and enjoy debating with the various posters on this forum. More often than not, I learn something new. All I ask is for a little honesty and integrity while posting, which is mostly the case, but sometimes the lack of both creeps through. I harbor no ill will.
Enjoy.
Umm, just wanted to say that GW2, I called it "Assisted Action Combat", but it's called "Snap Targeting" in their UI.
Basically you "Snap" target to the closest target to you, that your pointer is facing. Also with Melee, they use Hit Box targeting, IE: You hit everything in your area of Swing.
That kind of system IMHO, is far superior to "True Action Combat" which, truth be told, is not well liked anyway, if it was as widely beloved as some people make it out to be, Aim Bot programs would not be as prevalent or as profitable as they are, and yet they are a million dollar business.
As I see it, Aim Bots are like Phone Sex Lines, no one admits to using them, yet they make millions.. because.. you know.. no one uses them..
An action combat game can have all of the skill types that a Tab targeting MMO does, and then has the additional layers of aiming, movement, and quick reaction on top of that. However, CAN have and DOES have are certainly not the same thing. Most action games are substantially less complex than Tab target MMOs. Even those action combat MMOs that started off trying to have just as much complexity have generally been dumbed down over time for ease of play as they were often considered overwhelming for average players (e.g. TERA has repeatedly streamlined to make the game more accessible, though that's offset by WoW and Rift dumbing down gameplay too).
Of all the games out right now, I would say only Blade & Soul has both fast action combat and the complex class and skill design of traditional "high skill" Tab target games. To me it was by far the most skillful MMO on the market requiring a player to have every aspect of gaming skill to excel. Unfortunately, it's been ruined by P2W and lack of content that made it incredibly repetitive.
Tab Targetting tends to rely on mechanical rotations (FFXIV) or Skill Prioritization (WoW, EQ[2]). Action Combat tends to rely more on skill chaining, timing, and position (to a greater extent).
It does take more skill, when it's actually action combat.
All they have is pseudo FPS combat with fancy animations.
I don't think putting a reticle in a game makes it action combat. The only thing you've done, is made it so that the game engine does the tab targeting for the player. WoW players have been doing this for years, with mouseover macros.
Tab target MMOs I could chat during combat. Actually type in the group chat window. This I can not do in "action combat" games. This is the difference for me, not pointy clicky on targets or tab to the next one.
Action means busy, almost non-stop button/key pressing. The opposite would be Inaction, like sitting like a lump on a log, not Tab Target. In WoW, I sometimes had 2 bars full buttons to push, thus making it an "action combat" game even though I tab targeted, in my opinion.
Because of this, trying to argue the merits of 2 NOT opposite styles is kind of silly, don't you think? Lots of tab target games I consider action combat, because I am constantly pressing keys/buttons, thus creating continuous action on my part.
I'm not sure what the opposite of tab targeting combat would be, but action combat just doesn't seem to fit the bill, in my opinion.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
The opposite of action combat is turned based combat, not tab target combat though which is in between. The extremes go more like this:
FPS styled combat- Action combat - Tab targeted combat - Turned based combat.
Each of those have advantages and disadvantages and works best for some settings and terrible for others.
For instance if you want to make a Vietnam War MMO you would use FPS combat, the other 3 would suck. If you instead want to make a 3 musketeer MMO action combat would work best. Tab targetting is best in a bit slower tactical games while turned based combat can give you most combat options without overloading the players.
None of the systems in itself is better or worse then the others but they will not be equally good for s specific game. Also, you can do a better or worse job implementing said system in your game.