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From seamless universe MMO to region locked fixed single map arena game with multiple instances.

CryptoCrowCryptoCrow Member UncommonPosts: 54
edited February 2018 in Star Citizen
Star Citizen head of network development Clive Johnson has preemptively informed the backers of the ambitious record breaking crowd funded Life in Space Simulator that the long time marketed "Server Mesh" feature of a seamless MMO world with thousands of players has been shelved for the time being. 

The company is just now starting to implement actual server technology that will go little beyond the basic functionality provided by Lumberyard/CryEngine. Servers are fixed maps/zones, there will be multiple server instances for the same map/zone and there will be no cross region networking. That means EU players can not play with US players.

"Obviously this is a much simplified implementation to what we eventually want to achieve but is still complex enough that we will need to deliver key pieces of the technology. First among these is the ability to connect to multiple game servers in the same simulation. Next, seamless transitioning entities between servers." - Clive Johnson Lead Network Developer CIG

This is way below industry standard in 2018 and games like FFXI had this technology with no regional restrictions and cross platform in 2002.

For the last 2 years at least CIG/RSI has been marketing their incredible new server technology which they dubbed "Server Mesh", as a never before seen innovation in the MMO/Multiplayer Market. A seamless multiplayer universe with servers that based on server load and AI adjust the size of the instances but will keep a coherent and working single server experience for all players across all instances.

“We’re going to have this mesh of servers, so we’ll be able to have – hopefully you know – a large amount of players all in the same area, so we don’t have to instance it in a way that originally we were thinking we were gonna have to instance it; we have a kinda different kind of server design now that could potentially have thousands of players all in the same sort of area – uhm at the same time; which would be really cool cuz that’s something – again – something you could get a while, a year ago or ten years ago, but with sort of the newer tech, the power of machines, uh, the kinda stuff you can do in the cloud, the possibility has sort of opened up, we wanna utilize it.” - Chris Roberts 2016

This new technology was supposed to increase performance of the pre-alpha for the last 2 years and was announced on international trade shows like gamescom and the Star Citizen hosted CitizenCon, yet it never materialized. The latest version of the pre-alpha 3.0 is still using "out of the box" netcode that is severely restriciting the gameplay and causing performance issues according to CIG/RSI.

This begs the question: If they are just now starting at the very basics of 20 year old server technology, what have they been doing all these years?

More importantly however: When are they expecting this incredible new "server mesh" technology to be released?

source: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/what-will-be-the-extent-of-the-first-pass-on-the-s/968182


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Comments

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Star Citizen head of network development Clive Johnson has preemptively informed the backers of the ambitious record breaking crowd funded Life in Space Simulator that the long time marketed "Server Mesh" feature of a seamless MMO world with thousands of players has been shelved for the time being. 

    The company is just now starting to implement actual server technology that will go little beyond the basic functionality provided by Lumberyard/CryEngine. Servers are fixed maps/zones, there will be multiple server instances for the same map/zone and there will be no cross region networking. That means EU players can not play with US players.

    "Obviously this is a much simplified implementation to what we eventually want to achieve but is still complex enough that we will need to deliver key pieces of the technology. First among these is the ability to connect to multiple game servers in the same simulation. Next, seamless transitioning entities between servers." - Clive Johnson Lead Network Developer CIG

    This is way below industry standard in 2018 and games like FFXI had this technology with no regional restrictions and cross platform in 2002.

    For the last 2 years at least CIG/RSI has been marketing their incredible new server technology which they dubbed "Server Mesh", as a never before seen innovation in the MMO/Multiplayer Market. A seamless multiplayer universe with servers that based on server load and AI adjust the size of the instances but will keep a coherent and working single server experience for all players across all instances.

    “We’re going to have this mesh of servers, so we’ll be able to have – hopefully you know – a large amount of players all in the same area, so we don’t have to instance it in a way that originally we were thinking we were gonna have to instance it; we have a kinda different kind of server design now that could potentially have thousands of players all in the same sort of area – uhm at the same time; which would be really cool cuz that’s something – again – something you could get a while, a year ago or ten years ago, but with sort of the newer tech, the power of machines, uh, the kinda stuff you can do in the cloud, the possibility has sort of opened up, we wanna utilize it.” - Chris Roberts 2016

    This new technology was supposed to increase performance of the pre-alpha for the last 2 years and was announced on international trade shows like gamescom and the Star Citizen hosted CitizenCon, yet it never materialized. The latest version of the pre-alpha 3.0 is still using "out of the box" netcode that is severely restriciting the gameplay and causing performance issues according to CIG/RSI.

    This begs the question: If they are just now starting at the very basics of 20 year old server technology, what have they been doing all these years?

    More importantly however: When are they expecting this incredible new "server mesh" technology to be released?

    source: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/50259/thread/what-will-be-the-extent-of-the-first-pass-on-the-s/968182


    If anyone is surprised by this news they either 
    A) don’t follow the project or
    B) are a rabid fanboy with blinders on
    MaxBaconZenJellyJeffSpicoliBabuinixSiugxmentyAgent_JosephRommie10-284Dakeru
  • RaxeonRaxeon Member UncommonPosts: 2,267
    use dual universe server tech tada XD if ti works right
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    edited February 2018
    You are spreading misinformation on this.

    1) Region Locked
    OP was misleading about "region-locked", that is just wrong info,  what one MMO player understands as region-locked is the type of MMO's that will lock you to play in only NA, or EU, in most cases where you have a character in each that you won't play with it on the other region, being the data not shared.

    That is not the case in SC, in the reality of server meshing the region lock is pretty much, you select the server region you play on, and for as long you play on the NA region, you will be on NA servers within that server mesh until you change region again, you will be able to go to a new play session as you do now and play in another server region.

    The dev comment means that during a play session on a region you stay on that region, you wouldn't be in-game moving from a server in EU to a server in NA (inter-connects between regions).

    The data is global, shared across all of them, not locked per region.

    Also dev comment on that:




    2) Misleading title, the plan with the server mesh continues as it was always intended, there was never a moment SC was not one instanced game, the first implementation of the server mesh does not change how the very core ideology behind it is set to work, especially for players.

    Also implying "from a seamless universe" is another silly bit, it is seamless with you transitioning between game servers or not, again, was never meant or marketed to be any different, neither does the initial implementation changes that approach.



    End of the day, nothing changed since the server mesh was announced on the intended network setup of the game.


    It's unfortunate to see posters shielding anything that paints the game under bad light independent of it being wrong or not, as long it's negative it must be true, the "evil fans" I tell ya!
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    pantaroZenJellyTheScavengerRhoklawGdemamiKyleranMisatoTremor
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    So the current iteration isn't much different from the system used by E:D, then?

    Obviously he notes they will look to improve this moving forward.  Didn't see if they expected the single shard idea to make release or not.
    ZenJellyPhry

    image
  • Thomas2006Thomas2006 Member RarePosts: 1,152
    I didn't get being shelved out of that at all. From what I got was that they are going part by part as needed until its all together working as server mesh.

    And I am fairly certain from reading that, the final end game goal will allow for cross region support if they so choose (no reason they wouldn't once the final networking is in and working).

    The game still being Alpha and far from release it in no way suprises anyone that the final single shard universe mesh system won't be in a alpha build.
    DarkpigeonZenJellyMaxBacon
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    edited February 2018
    ...
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    ZenJellyTheScavengerSiugGdemamiKyleran
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,588
    love the spin the fanoys will put on this.

    we have all known for a long time it isnt what it was sold as 5 or 6 years ago and the closer they get to absolutely needing to release something the less it will continue to get.

    star citizen is going to be litle more than a pay to win micro (macro) transaction instanced shit show. nothing more nothing less. after the first few days of any 'official' release it wont have any more people playing it than already (not) playing it which is lessthan 100.
    ZenJellyKefoTheScavengerBabuinixkikoodutroa8JeffSpicoliSovrathSiugRhimeGdemamiand 3 others.
  • CryptoCrowCryptoCrow Member UncommonPosts: 54
    MaxBacon said:
    You are spreading misinformation on this.

    Star Citizen was ALWAYS meant to be instanced, in fact, more instanced before than what was set as the current plan with server meshing. Your post is ill-informed from the very core of your argument, there was never a moment where SC was meant to put all players in a single server (one instance of a solar system is not a single-server, yet the group of them).
    This is what i wrote:

    "The company is just now starting to implement actual server technology that will go little beyond the basic functionality provided by Lumberyard/CryEngine. Servers are fixed maps/zones, there will be multiple server instances for the same map/zone and there will be no cross region networking. "

    I am not sure where the misunderstanding is. Please explain to me how i am spreading misinformation when i say the exact same thing as you just did.

    Maybe you did not really read it and just replied because you thought someone is saying something bad about your video game. I am terribly sorry if i caused you any grief.

    Keep it cool



    ZenJellyTheScavengerKyleran
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    edited February 2018
    ...
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    WalkinGlennTheScavengerRhoklawSiugRhimeGdemamiKyleran
  • CryptoCrowCryptoCrow Member UncommonPosts: 54
    So the current iteration isn't much different from the system used by E:D, then?

    Obviously he notes they will look to improve this moving forward.  Didn't see if they expected the single shard idea to make release or not.
    No, Elite uses a P2P system with servers only for the economy. In a big battle all the clients talk to each other, there is no server involved at all.

    This is like a CryEngine game from 2000 in which every zone/map can have multiple instances and the servers talk to each other.
    TheScavengerMaxBaconBabuinixMadFrenchieNycteliosInteritus
  • CryptoCrowCryptoCrow Member UncommonPosts: 54
    MaxBacon said:
    rodarin said:
    love the spin the fanoys will put on this.
    Love the cheap attacks on the fans where you are incapable to counter their arguments because you know the OP is making stuff up about the network setup the game was meant to have.
    I am still waiting for you to tell me what exactly i have made up in your opinion. Just saying it does not make it so.

    I would appreciate if you clarify with examples and arguments what exactly i have made up about the network setup of the game.

    Thank you my friend.
    TheScavengerKyleran
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    edited February 2018
    ...
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    WalkinGlennTheScavengerGdemamiberenimKyleran
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,378
    And here I always thought that the game wasn't an MMO and that there would be a maximum of 64 players in an instance.

    At least that's what I thought I read back in 2013 when I threw $60 at this game.

    When did SC ever claim to be an MMO?
    TheScavengersomeforumguyNycteliosConstantineMerusPhry

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    edited February 2018
    ...
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    laseritWalkinGlennpantaroTheScavengerGdemami
  • CryptoCrowCryptoCrow Member UncommonPosts: 54
    MaxBacon said:
    This is what i wrote:

    "The company is just now starting to implement actual server technology that will go little beyond the basic functionality provided by Lumberyard/CryEngine. Servers are fixed maps/zones, there will be multiple server instances for the same map/zone and there will be no cross region networking. "

    I am not sure where the misunderstanding is. Please explain to me how i am spreading misinformation when i say the exact same thing as you just did.

    Maybe you did not really read it and just replied because you thought someone is saying something bad about your video game. I am terribly sorry if i caused you any grief.

    Keep it cool

    "Fime marketed "Server Mesh" feature of a seamless MMO world with thousands of players has been shelved for the time being."
    • The server mesh is to allow thousands of players in the same game world, nothing of what was said defeats that, the thousands of players per instance do are very well achievable, one of the stanton system would already include the groups of servers handling the game-world in a localized matter (Stanton System + let's say 20 Areas Handled by their own server + let's assume player cap won't increase anymore so 50 = 1k players in the same solar system game-world)
    • With that said, it was shelved in your imagination.

    #misinformation

    Fact: It is shelved for the time being according to the developer. It might come back at some point, but according to the Lead Network Developer they are developing a very basic networking now and not the server mesh.

    I urge you to read this again: "Obviously this is a much simplified implementation to what we eventually want to achieve"

    It's pretty clear that hey are developing a much simpler version and the complex version is shelved for now. I don't know where the confusion is. This is pretty clear cut and directly from the Lead Network Developer.

    So if you agree with the rest of my post and only object to the term "shelved for the time being", although it is factually correct, why do you call my post misinformation?

    You know it is not very polite to call a whole post misinformation just because you have misunderstood something. I don't want to turn this into a back and forth argument though and just leave it at that.

    Be polite.

    KefoTheScavengerberenimKyleran
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    edited February 2018
    ...
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    TheScavengerRhimeGdemamiberenimKyleran
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    This is what i wrote:

    "The company is just now starting to implement actual server technology that will go little beyond the basic functionality provided by Lumberyard/CryEngine. Servers are fixed maps/zones, there will be multiple server instances for the same map/zone and there will be no cross region networking. "

    I am not sure where the misunderstanding is. Please explain to me how i am spreading misinformation when i say the exact same thing as you just did.

    Maybe you did not really read it and just replied because you thought someone is saying something bad about your video game. I am terribly sorry if i caused you any grief.

    Keep it cool

    "Fime marketed "Server Mesh" feature of a seamless MMO world with thousands of players has been shelved for the time being."
    • The server mesh is to allow thousands of players in the same game world, nothing of what was said defeats that, the thousands of players per instance do are very well achievable, one of the stanton system would already include the groups of servers handling the game-world in a localized matter (Stanton System + let's say 20 Areas Handled by their own server + let's assume player cap won't increase anymore so 50 = 1k players in the same solar system game-world)
    • With that said, it was shelved in your imagination.

    #misinformation

    Fact: It is shelved for the time being according to the developer. It might come back at some point, but according to the Lead Network Developer they are developing a very basic networking now and not the server mesh.

    I urge you to read this again: "Obviously this is a much simplified implementation to what we eventually want to achieve"

    It's pretty clear that hey are developing a much simpler version and the complex version is shelved for now. I don't know where the confusion is. This is pretty clear cut and directly from the Lead Network Developer.

    So if you agree with the rest of my post and only object to the term "shelved for the time being", although it is factually correct, why do you call my post misinformation?

    You know it is not very polite to call a whole post misinformation just because you have misunderstood something. I don't want to turn this into a back and forth argument though and just leave it at that.

    Be polite.

    Don’t take it personally. The fans will spin anything to make it look like this was planned all along or that it’s not as bad as it seems or this was in the expanded vision. Anything that casts SC in a negative light, no matter how small, is misinformation and must be yelled down. 
    MaxBaconWalkinGlennTheScavengerSiugRhimePhoenix_HawkMrMelGibsonMaurgrimKyleranRommie10-284
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    The cash shop works. 
    TheScavengerpantaroStrizzy12someforumguyMaxBaconKyleranAgent_JosephRommie10-284Mikeha
  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    This is a fine example of how someone quotes something and then proceeds to extrapolate stuff out of proportion in order to bash SC.

    SC was from the get go meant to be instanced. In fact this was one of the detractors main arguments on these boards.
    TheScavengerNycteliosGdemamiMaurgrimKyleranMaxBacon
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    edited February 2018
    ...
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    TheScavengerWalkinGlennRhimeGdemamiKyleran
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited February 2018
    Kefo said:


    Don’t take it personally. The fans will spin anything to make it look like this was planned all along or that it’s not as bad as it seems or this was in the expanded vision. Anything that casts SC in a negative light, no matter how small, is misinformation and must be yelled down. 
    Don't take it personally but the trolls will spin anything. Anything that casts SC in a negative light no matter how small must be reported and embroidered. See what I did there?

    The title is misleading. 

    As for 20 year old i.e. 1998 technology the OP obviously never played multi-player games back then.
    MaxBaconTheScavengerBabuinix
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,541
    I don't know much about this game but I was always under the impression that it always had a fixed number limit to its server and that number was not large to begin with. I don't see how this is news.
    TheScavengerMaxBaconBabuinixNycteliosHatefullMrMelGibson
    Chamber of Chains
  • CryptoCrowCryptoCrow Member UncommonPosts: 54
    MaxBacon said:
    Fact: It is shelved for the time being according to the developer. It might come back at some point, but according to the Lead Network Developer they are developing a very basic networking now and not the server mesh.

    I urge you to read this again: "Obviously this is a much simplified implementation to what we eventually want to achieve"

    It's pretty clear that hey are developing a much simpler version and the complex version is shelved for now. I don't know where the confusion is. This is pretty clear cut and directly from the Lead Network Developer.

    So if you agree with the rest of my post and only object to the term "shelved for the time being", although it is factually correct, why do you call my post misinformation?

    You know it is not very polite to call a whole post misinformation just because you have misunderstood something. I don't want to turn this into a back and forth argument though and just leave it at that.

    Be polite.

    It's not a fact.

    That is the server meshing, the first planned release of it. Even that initial planned approach already fulfills the seamless game world with potentially up to thousands of players per instance, as it was marketed.

    You are implying there has been a change and from some reason it no longer is a seamless universe MMO. 

    Let's not engage in a circular argument, that helps no one. I understand you don't agree with what i wrote and you don't believe the CIG developer i quoted and linked. That however does not give you the right to call my post misinformation. It's rude and immature.

    So you agree with the rest of my post then i take it?

    Lighten up, it's snowing outside!
    TheScavengerMaxBaconberenimKyleran
  • CryptoCrowCryptoCrow Member UncommonPosts: 54
    Shodanas said:
    This is a fine example of how someone quotes something and then proceeds to extrapolate stuff out of proportion in order to bash SC.

    SC was from the get go meant to be instanced. In fact this was one of the detractors main arguments on these boards.
    Where have i said anything to the contrary?

    "The company is just now starting to implement actual server technology that will go little beyond the basic functionality provided by Lumberyard/CryEngine. Servers are fixed maps/zones, there will be multiple server instances for the same map/zone and there will be no cross region networking. "

    What have i extrapolated?

    Where have i bashed the game?

    Thanks for sharing
    TheScavengerberenimKyleran
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    edited February 2018
    ...
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    TheScavengerWalkinGlennGdemamiberenimKyleranWaan
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