Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Death of MMO genre - Nuff said ...

124678

Comments

  • LaetitianLaetitian Member UncommonPosts: 21
    edited February 2018
    beebop500 said:
     We are overloaded with bad F2P games but that is as much a function of society's general lack of an attention span as anything else.

    You make it sounds like a bad thing. I don't see why the public needs to keep attention on games for the long term. We are talking about entertainment here. My attention span on a movie is 2-3 hours. My attention span on a novel is like 4-5 hours. My attention spent on a season of tv shows is like 20 hours (or 10-13 if we are talking about netflix stuff). Is there any reason why games are superior and should command more of my time?
     You are unnecessarily mixing up "time invested into entertainment" and "time required to finish a content". But I don't see why they would have to have anything to do with each other. If there was a 500-hour novel that would fascinate me without end, I would read it. In fact, I have been listening to the Aubrey&Maturin series for several years.

    I would not do that without also expanding my literature canon knowledge in other genres, but I would stick with that book for my fantasy-reading until I am through with it. In the same way, you can play an MMO for 3 years, and still be able to spend some of your weekly gaming time on singleplayer titles or lobby-based games, etc.

    I agree with what you said to btdt, though, his comment was a bit scary.

    Loke666 said:
    Well, devs of subscription based games do tend to add more timesinks since they get payed by the month, just like F2P games try to sell you as much stuff as they can as fast as possible.
    Some subscription based developer teams do that. Those that follow WoWs business model definitely do. Which is why I never understood why that game could be appealing to anyone. It's the pinnacle of pointless PvE. Your reward is gear for more PvE.

    Other games have better premises, and therefore the gameplay itself is designed not to get old, because the player interaction and shifting powers itself creates the dynamic that keeps the game alive. Here, the developers neither push out timesink content so people keep wanting to remain active in the game, nor do they force-shove consumable shop content down players' throats.

    Instead, they let the game play itself out, but they just focus on adjusting balancing, and the rest is really mainly the end-game just playing itself out. I have witnessed it happen in Regnum Online, and I am sure some players of more appreciated PvP-focused territory-control-involving MMOs have felt the same (DAoC, Darkfall, possibly Elder Scrolls, maybe people who reach ArcheAge's endgame?). There are definitely MMO-designs that allow for longevity without void grind-updates, or CashgrabAndDump-strategies.

    AAAMEOW said:
    For me, I just don't fully understand why box fees and/or sub fees are so reviled now.  My experience has been that those games are generally - generally - better and have longer life spans.  But nowadays, the first thing people want to discuss about an upcoming game is its monetization format.  You'd think folks would be tired of being screwed over or disappointed by now.  Some of the "new" money models, especially the supposedly-F2P ones, certainly aren't improvements over just paying for a game and having what you need in-game.  Just my 2c.

    I agree, and this has been discussed for many years. Lots of companies have heeded the community's advice. Guild Wars 2 committing to the BuyToPay-plan was the first result of the debate I remember and had its model copied quite a few times. Many of the sandbox titles developed in the same era did the same thing.

    I think the reason that some of them are struggling to be accepted is that they are not very inviting to newcomers (to their payment model/genre/subgenre), because they do not offer sufficient Trial access or short-term-subscriptions. Darkfall 2 is one that does it faily well, but beyond that I have rarely seen any inviting methods to try out MMOs, both for AAA games and for smaller companies' titles. For example, just recently I saw that Final Fantasy now offers a very open Trial client, but when I looked for it 2 years ago or so, they had nothing of the sort.
    If a game does not let me test how it feels to connect with the community ingame, I won't pay for it, period. Publishers who do not understand that deserve to struggle until they learn their error.
    Dagon13
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Laetitian said:
    Some subscription based developer teams do that. Those that follow WoWs business model definitely do. Which is why I never understood why that game could be appealing to anyone. It's the pinnacle of pointless PvE. Your reward is gear for more PvE.

    Other games have better premises, and therefore the gameplay itself is designed not to get old, because the player interaction and shifting powers itself creates the dynamic that keeps the game alive. Here, the developers neither push out timesink content so people keep wanting to remain active in the game, nor do they force-shove consumable shop content down players' throats.

    Instead, they let the game play itself out, but they just focus on adjusting balancing, and the rest is really mainly the end-game just playing itself out. I have witnessed it happen in Regnum Online, and I am sure some players of more appreciated PvP-focused territory-control-involving MMOs have felt the same (DAoC, Darkfall, possibly Elder Scrolls, maybe people who reach ArcheAge's endgame?). There are definitely MMO-designs that allow for longevity without void grind-updates, or CashgrabAndDump-strategies.
    No, everyone does not try to add as much timesinks as they can and I do agree that DaoC had a great endgame.

    The thing most endgame centered PvP games falls on though is not the endgame but the path there. Far too many of the sandboxy PvP games suck before the endgame just as many PvE themeparks suck so much after it.

    That is why Archeage tried PvE gameplay until you reach it and PvP after, that didn't work out  as great as they hoped but A for trying, at least they gave it some thought.

    I don't think it is the right way of solving the problem but just identifying it is more then many devs ever do.

    How can you make both PvE and PvP fun both in the early game and in the endgame? A really good solution to that question is worth a lot of money.
    Laetitian
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    I dont expect another MMO boom until VR tech matures and becomes popular.  
    That could be just around the corner, and applying new tech instead of improve the gameplay is certainly one way of revitilizing the genre. In the long term it wont be enough though, after a year or 2 people will realize that they still are playing the same game.

    I am rather sure that the first successful VR MMO will be in Japan and spread to us from there, unlike us the Japs really want a VR MMORPG, there are plenty of successful animes and books about the concept. 
  • PsYcHoGBRPsYcHoGBR Member UncommonPosts: 471
    I don't think mmo's will die they are evolving.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,070
    Loke666 said:
    I dont expect another MMO boom until VR tech matures and becomes popular.  
    That could be just around the corner, and applying new tech instead of improve the gameplay is certainly one way of revitilizing the genre. In the long term it wont be enough though, after a year or 2 people will realize that they still are playing the same game.

    I am rather sure that the first successful VR MMO will be in Japan and spread to us from there, unlike us the Japs really want a VR MMORPG, there are plenty of successful animes and books about the concept. 
    The first VR MMO already exists... it's called "Elite Dangerous".
    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn in Star Wars.
    After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that nor does the ability to write.
    CPU: Core I7 9700k (4.90ghz) - GPU: Gigabyte GTX 980 Ti G1 Gaming - RAM: 16GB Kingston HyperX Savage DDR4 3000 - Motherboard: Gigabyte Z390 Aorus Ultra - PSU: Antec TruePower New 750W - Storage: Kingston KC1000 NVMe 960gb SSD and 2x1TB WD Velociraptor HDDs (Raid 0) - Main display: Philips 40PUK6809 4K 3D TV - Second display: Philips 273v 27" gaming monitor - VR: Pimax 8K headset and Razer Hydra controllers - Soundcard: Sony STR-DH550 AV Receiver HDMI linked with the GPU and the TV, with Jamo S 426 HS 3 5.0 speakers and Pioneer S-21W subwoofer - OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 bits.

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,364
    They aren't dead. They just aren't the same anymore. The genre will change as the needs of the community who plays it changes. Look at how many people still play the games, FFXIV is still booming everywhere I go, WoW still has a giant playerbase, even Runescape still has a giant playerbase. I mean people obviously still want to play them, it will just not be developed by triple A studios anymore, it will be indie mostly. 
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 919
    Dragnelus said:
    Kyleran said:
    danwest58 said:
    O and no the MMORPG Genera is not dead.   Its stagnate with too many WOW clones trying to catter to every person in the world.   


    lol .. you are still stuck on the wow clone era? Now MMO is replaced by MOBAs, shooters, TCGs, and so on. 

    There has not been a AAA wow clone for a long time ... because devs are simply not interested in traditional mmos anymore. Unless you count Destiny 2 as one. 
    These days it seems everyone is cloning Battle Royal or Survival games.
    Who knows when blizz will come with one. I dont play the current BR games but will prob play it when blizz makes it :open_mouth: 

    They are the best at coping and make it superior.
    Well HotS sucks compared to DOTA and even LoL.
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 919
    edited February 2018
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,486
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks
    hmmmm, "not World of Warcraft themeparks".

    There are certainly different ways one can do a themepark, game. Just because games in the World of Warcraft style are waning in popularity doesn't mean a company can't come up with another way to create a themepark game.

    Especially because a LOT of people do not like open ended "make your own way" games.
    cjmarsh



  • darkrain21darkrain21 Member UncommonPosts: 382
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 919
    edited February 2018
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 919
    The combo Lineage/Lineage M made actually over 1 trillion korean won (1 billion dollars) last year.


    cjmarsh
  • GatheredMystGatheredMyst Member UncommonPosts: 11
    Sigh... videos like this.

    "There aren't any games coming out that I personally want to play, therefor... the entire genre is dead!"

    Meanwhile, i'm bouncing between three MMO's that are getting regular content updates, and a fourth if I feel like doing something more oldschool.

    That's the joy of the genre.  MMO's are constantly being updated with new stuff, if developers pay enough attention to them.  While there aren't a lot of new titles coming out right now, there are plenty of games out there that are getting a lot of love and attention.

    I guess the rule of thumb is:  Just because someone personally doesn't feel like they're getting their itch scratched doesn't mean that that something is dead.
    cjmarsh
  • darkrain21darkrain21 Member UncommonPosts: 382
    edited February 2018
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    Didn't ask for their gross, I asked for their population and popularity. Lineage makes it's money as a f2p game there for yes it will make more money f2p just does. But that games population is not as high as the other two, not actively. And you are mistaking Profit for popularity just because a game has wealthy players who don't mind investing a crap ton of money into it does not mean more people play it. Lets also remember you are currently comparing a Korean phone game to a PC and PS4 game, that is like saying Clash of Clans is more popular than Star Craft because CoC makes tons of money on its easy to access overly expensive F2P micro Transactions.
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 919
    edited February 2018
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    Didn't ask for their gross, I asked for their population and popularity. Lineage makes it's money as a f2p game there for yes it will make more money f2p just does. But that games population is not as high as the other two, not actively. And you are mistaking Profit for popularity just because a game has wealthy players who don't mind investing a crap ton of money into it does not mean more people play it. Lets also remember you are currently comparing a Korean phone game to a PC and PS4 game, that is like saying Clash of Clans is more popular than Star Craft because CoC makes tons of money on its easy to access overly expensive F2P micro Transactions.
    It's the same game both for PC and Mobile with only the interface adapted for mobile and better animations. And the PC version still is P2P. The mobile version is so good that made a huge number of the PC version leave and play Lineage M.

    Lineage M is not on the same league a Clash of Clans or Cand Crush, my friend. It is a full PC port to mobile that was very well done.
  • darkrain21darkrain21 Member UncommonPosts: 382
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    Didn't ask for their gross, I asked for their population and popularity. Lineage makes it's money as a f2p game there for yes it will make more money f2p just does. But that games population is not as high as the other two, not actively. And you are mistaking Profit for popularity just because a game has wealthy players who don't mind investing a crap ton of money into it does not mean more people play it. Lets also remember you are currently comparing a Korean phone game to a PC and PS4 game, that is like saying Clash of Clans is more popular than Star Craft because CoC makes tons of money on its easy to access overly expensive F2P micro Transactions.
    It's the same game both for PC and Mobile with only the interface adapted for mobile and better animations. And the PC version still is P2P. The mobile version is so good that made a huge number of the PC version leave and play Lineage M.

    Ok so a huge number are we talking a couple hundred thousand or are we talking 4-10 million? Big difference, I am not saying Lineage is a bad game, I am just saying it doesn't have the popularity of the other two in the discussion.
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 919
    edited February 2018
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    Didn't ask for their gross, I asked for their population and popularity. Lineage makes it's money as a f2p game there for yes it will make more money f2p just does. But that games population is not as high as the other two, not actively. And you are mistaking Profit for popularity just because a game has wealthy players who don't mind investing a crap ton of money into it does not mean more people play it. Lets also remember you are currently comparing a Korean phone game to a PC and PS4 game, that is like saying Clash of Clans is more popular than Star Craft because CoC makes tons of money on its easy to access overly expensive F2P micro Transactions.
    It's the same game both for PC and Mobile with only the interface adapted for mobile and better animations. And the PC version still is P2P. The mobile version is so good that made a huge number of the PC version leave and play Lineage M.

    Ok so a huge number are we talking a couple hundred thousand or are we talking 4-10 million? Big difference, I am not saying Lineage is a bad game, I am just saying it doesn't have the popularity of the other two in the discussion.
    Show me the numbers, my friend. FFXIV is not even in the top 10 PC or consoles games of 2017.

    The only PC MMO in the top 10 games is WoW, if FFXIV has 10 million players as you said it would be above WoW right now.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,580
    Loke666 said:
    I dont expect another MMO boom until VR tech matures and becomes popular.  
    That could be just around the corner, and applying new tech instead of improve the gameplay is certainly one way of revitilizing the genre. In the long term it wont be enough though, after a year or 2 people will realize that they still are playing the same game.

    I am rather sure that the first successful VR MMO will be in Japan and spread to us from there, unlike us the Japs really want a VR MMORPG, there are plenty of successful animes and books about the concept. 
    The first VR MMO already exists... it's called "Elite Dangerous".
    Actually ED wasn't the first...

     "On July 24, 2013, Vendetta officially launched support for the Oculus Rift family of devices, marking the first time a live MMORPG supported the virtual reality display."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vendetta_Online

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • darkrain21darkrain21 Member UncommonPosts: 382
    edited February 2018
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    Didn't ask for their gross, I asked for their population and popularity. Lineage makes it's money as a f2p game there for yes it will make more money f2p just does. But that games population is not as high as the other two, not actively. And you are mistaking Profit for popularity just because a game has wealthy players who don't mind investing a crap ton of money into it does not mean more people play it. Lets also remember you are currently comparing a Korean phone game to a PC and PS4 game, that is like saying Clash of Clans is more popular than Star Craft because CoC makes tons of money on its easy to access overly expensive F2P micro Transactions.
    It's the same game both for PC and Mobile with only the interface adapted for mobile and better animations. And the PC version still is P2P. The mobile version is so good that made a huge number of the PC version leave and play Lineage M.

    Ok so a huge number are we talking a couple hundred thousand or are we talking 4-10 million? Big difference, I am not saying Lineage is a bad game, I am just saying it doesn't have the popularity of the other two in the discussion.
    Show me the numbers, my friend. FFXIV is not even in the top 10 PC or consoles games of 2017.

    The only PC MMO in the top 10 games is WoW, if FFXIV has 10 million players as you said it would be above WoW right now.

    Never said it had 10 million I said 4-10 in speaking of both wow and ffxiv, and FFxiv was in the top 10 MMOs of 2017 due to Stormbloods launch and there last active player count was over 5 million. And by your own logic there show me the numbers that anyone really gave more than a 2 day care about Linage coming to their phones here in the west. I downloaded it let it play itself and then uninstalled it. But its not hard to find that FFXIV is the  Second most Popular Sub based MMO on the market and one of the most popular MMOS available right now.
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,168
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    People in America or Europe actually play FFXIV or ESO.  Almost no one play lineage in America or Europe.  So you are referencing a game no one on this forum care about.  And I don't even know lineage is a sandbox game.  Never heard of people referring it as a sandbox game.  
    Kyleran
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 919
    edited February 2018
    AAAMEOW said:
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    People in America or Europe actually play FFXIV or ESO.  Almost no one play lineage in America or Europe.  So you are referencing a game no one on this forum care about.  And I don't even know lineage is a sandbox game.  Never heard of people referring it as a sandbox game.  
    The online revenue from asian markets are already bigger than the west. Closing your eyes and refusing to see it won't change reality.

    Lineage is an "open" MMO not exactly a sandbox, with the open world as the main focus of the game, there are very few intances that usually have a timer in which you can enter it again (usually 24h hours to 1 week).

    90% of the content of the game as well as the pvp happens in the open world.
  • darkrain21darkrain21 Member UncommonPosts: 382
    Kabulozo said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    People in America or Europe actually play FFXIV or ESO.  Almost no one play lineage in America or Europe.  So you are referencing a game no one on this forum care about.  And I don't even know lineage is a sandbox game.  Never heard of people referring it as a sandbox game.  
    The online revenue from asian markets are already bigger than the west. Closing your eyes and refusing to see it won't change reality.

    Lineage is an "open" MMO not exactly a sandbox, with the open world as the main focus of the game, there are very few intances that usually have a timer in which you can enter it again (usually 24h hours to 1 week).

    90% of the content of the game as well as the pvp happens in the open world.

    None of that makes it a sandbox, its an open world themepark. Also you tell him to not close his eyes to it but you are doing the same in allowing Profit to garner what you think is popular. Linage could have 3 people who spend 3 million a year in it doesn't mean it is more popular than the other games just means it caters to spenders.
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 919
    Kabulozo said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    People in America or Europe actually play FFXIV or ESO.  Almost no one play lineage in America or Europe.  So you are referencing a game no one on this forum care about.  And I don't even know lineage is a sandbox game.  Never heard of people referring it as a sandbox game.  
    The online revenue from asian markets are already bigger than the west. Closing your eyes and refusing to see it won't change reality.

    Lineage is an "open" MMO not exactly a sandbox, with the open world as the main focus of the game, there are very few intances that usually have a timer in which you can enter it again (usually 24h hours to 1 week).

    90% of the content of the game as well as the pvp happens in the open world.

    None of that makes it a sandbox, its an open world themepark. Also you tell him to not close his eyes to it but you are doing the same in allowing Profit to garner what you think is popular. Linage could have 3 people who spend 3 million a year in it doesn't mean it is more popular than the other games just means it caters to spenders.
    Popularity and revenue always walk together. LoL has the biggest revenues among all PC games because it has over 100 million players.
  • darkrain21darkrain21 Member UncommonPosts: 382
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    People in America or Europe actually play FFXIV or ESO.  Almost no one play lineage in America or Europe.  So you are referencing a game no one on this forum care about.  And I don't even know lineage is a sandbox game.  Never heard of people referring it as a sandbox game.  
    The online revenue from asian markets are already bigger than the west. Closing your eyes and refusing to see it won't change reality.

    Lineage is an "open" MMO not exactly a sandbox, with the open world as the main focus of the game, there are very few intances that usually have a timer in which you can enter it again (usually 24h hours to 1 week).

    90% of the content of the game as well as the pvp happens in the open world.

    None of that makes it a sandbox, its an open world themepark. Also you tell him to not close his eyes to it but you are doing the same in allowing Profit to garner what you think is popular. Linage could have 3 people who spend 3 million a year in it doesn't mean it is more popular than the other games just means it caters to spenders.
    Popularity and revenue always walk together. LoL has the biggest revenues among all PC games because it has over 100 million players.
    LoL isn't an mmo, not the topic at hand.
    Kyleran
  • KabulozoKabulozo Member RarePosts: 919
    edited February 2018
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Kabulozo said:
    Kabulozo said:
    WoW clones and the "wow cloning era" are dead. Even WoW is slowly fading, losing players faster and faster a few months after new expansion. But there is still space for MMOs, but not themeparks

    Theme parks are doing fine, as a matter of fact the 2 big ones are still more active than even the most popular Sandbox. FFXIV is still going up in player subs and wow is steady with consistent surges in the population. If you can name 1 Sandbox with the player base and popularity of ether of these two games, then you might have an argument.
    Lineage 1/Lineage M still is the biggest grossing MMO after WoW, FFXIV don't come even close.

    It made over 950 million dollars in revenue in 2017.

    People in America or Europe actually play FFXIV or ESO.  Almost no one play lineage in America or Europe.  So you are referencing a game no one on this forum care about.  And I don't even know lineage is a sandbox game.  Never heard of people referring it as a sandbox game.  
    The online revenue from asian markets are already bigger than the west. Closing your eyes and refusing to see it won't change reality.

    Lineage is an "open" MMO not exactly a sandbox, with the open world as the main focus of the game, there are very few intances that usually have a timer in which you can enter it again (usually 24h hours to 1 week).

    90% of the content of the game as well as the pvp happens in the open world.

    None of that makes it a sandbox, its an open world themepark. Also you tell him to not close his eyes to it but you are doing the same in allowing Profit to garner what you think is popular. Linage could have 3 people who spend 3 million a year in it doesn't mean it is more popular than the other games just means it caters to spenders.
    Popularity and revenue always walk together. LoL has the biggest revenues among all PC games because it has over 100 million players.
    LoL isn't an mmo, not the topic at hand.
    It doesn't change the fact that popularity = revenue, Lineage M is currently the most popular MMO in Korea and Taiwan (the only 2 places it is available so far).
Sign In or Register to comment.