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The Way Forward...

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,514
    Maybe the Ivory Tower can discuss the ideas on tonight's Twitch Stream with Dleatherus.  It will be interesting to see if they take the chance to look at things realistically or if it's going to be a repeat of the last interview where anything Caspien said was met with "Great point!"


    Sigh... The Ivory Tower literally described this as a "win/win"... and said "we don't know why they let the employees go, maybe they were late a few times".  

    Compared "Naysayers" of CoE to Jeff Bezos getting turned down by Warren Buffet for investment.  And that Caspien shares many of the same traits as Bezos.

    Even I am totally stunned by their ability to ignore reality. 
    YashaXGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member EpicPosts: 4,194
    Maybe the Ivory Tower can discuss the ideas on tonight's Twitch Stream with Dleatherus.  It will be interesting to see if they take the chance to look at things realistically or if it's going to be a repeat of the last interview where anything Caspien said was met with "Great point!"


    Sigh... The Ivory Tower literally described this as a "win/win"... and said "we don't know why they let the employees go, maybe they were late a few times".  

    Compared "Naysayers" of CoE to Jeff Bezos getting turned down by Warren Buffet for investment.  And that Caspien shares many of the same traits as Bezos.

    Even I am totally stunned by their ability to ignore reality. 
    These crowdfunded projects, intentionally or not, rely heavily on the sunk cost fallacy.
    Gdemami

    image
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,514
    Maybe the Ivory Tower can discuss the ideas on tonight's Twitch Stream with Dleatherus.  It will be interesting to see if they take the chance to look at things realistically or if it's going to be a repeat of the last interview where anything Caspien said was met with "Great point!"


    Sigh... The Ivory Tower literally described this as a "win/win"... and said "we don't know why they let the employees go, maybe they were late a few times".  

    Compared "Naysayers" of CoE to Jeff Bezos getting turned down by Warren Buffet for investment.  And that Caspien shares many of the same traits as Bezos.

    Even I am totally stunned by their ability to ignore reality. 
    These crowdfunded projects, intentionally or not, rely heavily on the sunk cost fallacy.
    I mean... it took awhile but even Scrooge eventually heeded the Harbingers when he saw what the future held.  They just got a preview by the company laying off developers and it still hasn't sunk in.

    I dunno.  My Harbinger skills must be lacking.


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member EpicPosts: 4,194
    edited January 19
    Maybe the Ivory Tower can discuss the ideas on tonight's Twitch Stream with Dleatherus.  It will be interesting to see if they take the chance to look at things realistically or if it's going to be a repeat of the last interview where anything Caspien said was met with "Great point!"


    Sigh... The Ivory Tower literally described this as a "win/win"... and said "we don't know why they let the employees go, maybe they were late a few times".  

    Compared "Naysayers" of CoE to Jeff Bezos getting turned down by Warren Buffet for investment.  And that Caspien shares many of the same traits as Bezos.

    Even I am totally stunned by their ability to ignore reality. 
    These crowdfunded projects, intentionally or not, rely heavily on the sunk cost fallacy.
    I mean... it took awhile but even Scrooge eventually heeded the Harbingers when he saw what the future held.  They just got a preview by the company laying off developers and it still hasn't sunk in.

    I dunno.  My Harbinger skills must be lacking.


    I'd say the emotional attachment would make influencing their opinions largely an effort in futility no matter how effective the explanation.

    If the majority of these endeavors fall flat, I can see consumer faith in any upcoming MMORPG project to be unusually low.  For this genre, that's saying something significant.  The higher the ride, the harder the fall.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

    image
  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 13,955
    #1 Do NOT make promises,especially without having much money to even guarantee a game.
    #2 Be honest from day 1,sure it might not get what you want/need but you will at least garner more positive attention and more people that might be willing to follow your game and eventually play it even though you likely won't get any FREE money from them.
    #3 maybe should be number 1,do NOT attempt to make a game you cannot guarantee with solid finances,solid knowledge and a solid team.If you think your attempt is very suspect,then you should not be making that game.
     

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,297
    What have they actually accomplished to this point?
    Nilden
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,514
    What have they actually accomplished to this point?
    Their primary achievement is raising $3,623,751 as of this post. 

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member EpicPosts: 4,194
    What have they actually accomplished to this point?
    World's first beard challenge to raise funds to build an MMORPG.

    image
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,350
    What have they actually accomplished to this point?
    In terms of development?  I keep saying it, but so far they've 'allegedly' (it's in private testing) produced a MUD which may or may not be the basis for some aspect of the code of the final game or.... something ridiculous like that.
    JamesGoblin
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,297
    Tiamat64 said:
    What have they actually accomplished to this point?
    In terms of development?  I keep saying it, but so far they've 'allegedly' (it's in private testing) produced a MUD which may or may not be the basis for some aspect of the code of the final game or.... something ridiculous like that.
    I read what Slapp said at the top of this page.
    I can only pick my jaw up off the floor.
    I mean, to speak of the obviousness of this situation is an understatement.
    This has gone beyond willful ignorance int abject fanaticism.

    I'm sitting here, and I have no words to describe the level of disbelief and the extent of the disconnect from reality.

    Do we have any example ever anywhere, that we could even hint to that shows any of the recent announcements in even a silver lined cloud of a win/win scenario?

    Yet these people.............

    YashaXGdemami
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 157
    Maybe the Ivory Tower can discuss the ideas on tonight's Twitch Stream with Dleatherus.  It will be interesting to see if they take the chance to look at things realistically or if it's going to be a repeat of the last interview where anything Caspien said was met with "Great point!"


    Sigh... The Ivory Tower literally described this as a "win/win"... and said "we don't know why they let the employees go, maybe they were late a few times".  

    Compared "Naysayers" of CoE to Jeff Bezos getting turned down by Warren Buffet for investment.  And that Caspien shares many of the same traits as Bezos.

    Even I am totally stunned by their ability to ignore reality. 
    maybe the naysayers can start their own livestream and discuss it?

    basically for me i don't have an issue with the naysayers - you can say what you want

    to me it is like an explorer raising funds in the mid 1800's - people know it's risky, people know there's a chance they won't succeed, or come back etc

    some folks will passionately support it

    some folks will passionately naysay against

    the vast majority will either not care, or wait to read about if and when the explorers return

    deal with it



    YashaXGdemamimystichaze
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,514
    edited January 19
    Tiamat64 said:
    What have they actually accomplished to this point?
    In terms of development?  I keep saying it, but so far they've 'allegedly' (it's in private testing) produced a MUD which may or may not be the basis for some aspect of the code of the final game or.... something ridiculous like that.
    I read what Slapp said at the top of this page.
    I can only pick my jaw up off the floor.
    I mean, to speak of the obviousness of this situation is an understatement.
    This has gone beyond willful ignorance int abject fanaticism.

    I'm sitting here, and I have no words to describe the level of disbelief and the extent of the disconnect from reality.

    Do we have any example ever anywhere, that we could even hint to that shows any of the recent announcements in even a silver lined cloud of a win/win scenario?

    Yet these people.............

    Watch for yourself.  Jump right to 36:00 for the  "Nothing but a Win/Win situation at the moment"

    Or to 37:30 for the "People want to make a negative out of a positive"  and "They may have shown up to work late a few too many times" comment...
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/219991464##

    Simply callous and utterly stunning.  I mean the guy even says "literally less than a handful" of employees were laid off...

    Hard to believe that the Harbinger has more compassion than these guys.

    They need to read the OP in this thread.  Then read it again.  Then convince Caspien to follow it.


    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    EponyxDamorYashaXGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member UncommonPosts: 542
    Tiamat64 said:
    What have they actually accomplished to this point?
    In terms of development?  I keep saying it, but so far they've 'allegedly' (it's in private testing) produced a MUD which may or may not be the basis for some aspect of the code of the final game or.... something ridiculous like that.
    I read what Slapp said at the top of this page.
    I can only pick my jaw up off the floor.
    I mean, to speak of the obviousness of this situation is an understatement.
    This has gone beyond willful ignorance int abject fanaticism.

    I'm sitting here, and I have no words to describe the level of disbelief and the extent of the disconnect from reality.

    Do we have any example ever anywhere, that we could even hint to that shows any of the recent announcements in even a silver lined cloud of a win/win scenario?

    Yet these people.............

    Watch for yourself.  Jump right to 36:00 for the  "Nothing but a Win/Win situation at the moment"

    Or to 37:30 for the "People want to make a negative out of a positive"  and "They may have shown up to work late a few too many times" comment...
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/219991464##

    Simply callous and utterly stunning.  I mean the guy even says "literally less than a handful" of employees were laid off...

    Hard to believe that the Harbinger has more compassion than these guys.

    They need to read the OP in this thread.  Then read it again.  Then convince Caspien to follow it.


    I honestly expected the comments to be taken out of context, but they aren't ... At all.

    Talk about being tone deaf.

    Geez.
    Slapshot1188YashaX
  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 1,682
    I don't think they will survive long........... unless some changes are made and they become more realistic.  I think they were dreaming TOO BIG for their wallets to handle (predictions).  Layoffs = Vaporware?
    Gdemami
    Warriors are like steel, when you lose your temper you lose your worth.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,514
    Tiamat64 said:
    What have they actually accomplished to this point?
    In terms of development?  I keep saying it, but so far they've 'allegedly' (it's in private testing) produced a MUD which may or may not be the basis for some aspect of the code of the final game or.... something ridiculous like that.
    I read what Slapp said at the top of this page.
    I can only pick my jaw up off the floor.
    I mean, to speak of the obviousness of this situation is an understatement.
    This has gone beyond willful ignorance int abject fanaticism.

    I'm sitting here, and I have no words to describe the level of disbelief and the extent of the disconnect from reality.

    Do we have any example ever anywhere, that we could even hint to that shows any of the recent announcements in even a silver lined cloud of a win/win scenario?

    Yet these people.............

    Watch for yourself.  Jump right to 36:00 for the  "Nothing but a Win/Win situation at the moment"

    Or to 37:30 for the "People want to make a negative out of a positive"  and "They may have shown up to work late a few too many times" comment...
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/219991464##

    Simply callous and utterly stunning.  I mean the guy even says "literally less than a handful" of employees were laid off...

    Hard to believe that the Harbinger has more compassion than these guys.

    They need to read the OP in this thread.  Then read it again.  Then convince Caspien to follow it.


    I honestly expected the comments to be taken out of context, but they aren't ... At all.

    Talk about being tone deaf.

    Geez.
    Nope that’s exactly what the tone was... that’s why I linked it for anyone to see.

    Instead of compassion for the folks that were laid off... it’s apparently more important to rally around the game.  You would think that the folks who support the Elyria Assistance Program to buy copies of the game for people that can’t afford it... might think about fundraising for the folks that were laid off but nope. How about the next sale is to get those folks health insurance for 6 months?
    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • TreesongTreesong Member UncommonPosts: 15
    edited January 19
    This game has been vaporware from the start. Ridiculous featurelist, luring in whales with promises of potentially becoming some kind of special snowflake(You!)  in a world full of serbs (the rest). 

    Also https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7116954/#Comment_7116954

    I know predicting the fail of a new MMO isn't really something special, but I have never before felt so  suspicious about a new project as I was about this  "Star Citizen" wannabe(but for Fantasy). 

    Fleecing the Dreamers. 

    (Yes, it will fail. It *always* starts with layoffs).
    Post edited by Treesong on
    Gdemami
  • WellspringWellspring Member RarePosts: 712
    The way forward isn't backwards. If they release a shell of a game (taking out all the unique features promised) it may make it to launch, but it won't last much beyond that. See every other MMO that released unfinished and the drop in users immediately after launch. 

    What they need to do is get to a playable demo state as fast as possible (like Pantheon did -- they created the base game up to level 10 content). Then use that demo to land a publisher/investor.

    You can't go to a publisher without a working prototype and just a stack of papers. 

    That's the only way forward I see. And it's not going to be easy. 
    Gdemami
    --------------------------------------------
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 4,007
    The suggestions you're making OP are too drastic. I doubt any developer can take such bold steps and not face complete failure. Yes FFXIV did it but they are Square Enix and they can absorb the loss. Don't even dream about this solution it is totally impossible.
    WellspringGeezerGamerGdemami

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 28,191
    Dakeru said:
    Congratulations on reaching legendary status Harbinger!
    Thanks.  As another Harbinger once said:  

    “IF YOU STRIKE ME DOWN, I SHALL BECOME MORE POWERFUL THAN YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE.”


     ;) 
    Now you will know the true power of "the force"


    Ten types of internet trolls - Which one are you?

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon





  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 4,007
    Varsoon from Everquest says that too.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,297
    Honestly, IMO, The way forward.........is individualized. Every one of those "employees" should be looking for new jobs and realize this dream is about to end. COE isn't going to happen and if their livelihoods are on the line, then they would need to be thinking about a move now.
    Nilden
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,055
    I just noticed that my avatar looks harbinger-of-doom-ish, tho I stopped predicting CoE death (actually, I treated it as a fact) more than a year ago.

    I thought that repeating it wouldn't have much sense, but some of the reactions are pure comedy gold!
    Slapshot1188
  • genaknoscgenaknosc Member UncommonPosts: 106
    I just noticed that my avatar looks harbinger-of-doom-ish, tho I stopped predicting CoE death (actually, I treated it as a fact) more than a year ago.

    I thought that repeating it wouldn't have much sense, but some of the reactions are pure comedy gold!

    James Goblin likes this.
    Slapshot1188JamesGoblinEponyxDamor
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member EpicPosts: 4,194
    kitarad said:
    The suggestions you're making OP are too drastic. I doubt any developer can take such bold steps and not face complete failure. Yes FFXIV did it but they are Square Enix and they can absorb the loss. Don't even dream about this solution it is totally impossible.
    The idea that these guys can still pull off the ambition they started out with seems, to anyone looking objectively, just as impossible.

    Maybe they should scrap the MMORPG and stop at the MUD.  They might get that working.

    image
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,435
    kitarad said:
    The suggestions you're making OP are too drastic. I doubt any developer can take such bold steps and not face complete failure. Yes FFXIV did it but they are Square Enix and they can absorb the loss. Don't even dream about this solution it is totally impossible.
    The idea that these guys can still pull off the ambition they started out with seems, to anyone looking objectively, just as impossible.

    Maybe they should scrap the MMORPG and stop at the MUD.  They might get that working.
    Right, because making a MUD is such a good idea that they are the only company doing it...

    OR
    Image result for pants on head



    Kyleran

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer


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