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  • BLNXBLNX Member UncommonPosts: 93
    Well, before all the arguing begins, it is nice to see that they understand their limitations and downsized to stay afloat. That thing about the crowdfunding is a bit saddening though, I'd hate to see another Shroud of the Avatar, or worse, an SC but without the same capital.
    EponyxDamordaarco
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,404
    edited January 17
    So is laying off a bunch of staff "not a big deal" like losing SpatialOS, too?

    Hey, remember when one of the CoE supporters (mystichaze, IIRC) asked for evidence that SBS wasn't able to keep up with their current expenses?

    Well, that problem's solved, now, I guess. (but not a big deal, I'm sure!)

    BLNX said:
    Well, before all the arguing begins, it is nice to see that they understand their limitations and downsized to stay afloat. That thing about the crowdfunding is a bit saddening though, I'd hate to see another Shroud of the Avatar, or worse, an SC but without the same capital.


    So long as people think it's a good idea to crowdfund something as massive as an MMORPG ("massive" is even in the genre's name!), be prepared to see a lot more, alas.
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
    EponyxDamorYashaX
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 631
    edited January 17
    So they downsized after expanding due to not being able to lock down a publisher.

    Huh ... I seem to remember someone pointing out that they couldn't afford to continue development at their current size just recently.

    (EDIT: It is truly unfortunate for those who were let go. However, in light of losing a sizable portion of their development team, I really don't see CoE lasting until launch unless they are truly able to ramp up crowdfunding immensely. This year will be the true test of SBS's ability to produce ... Well, anything.)
    Post edited by EponyxDamor on
    JamesGoblinMaxBacon
  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 14,573
    edited January 17
    I mentioned dropping Spacial was a cost saving venture,seems i was correct.

    Reading that letter yet again made me think between the lines,try to decipher what is really  going on because the truth is never an option for developers.
    So what i saw in that letter and what i think about it?

    "based on player feedback"So are they telling us they had no definitive game design but were going to wing it as player feedback comes in?Then they talk about having full control that no publisher seems to want to give them in a partnership.I see some double standards there.So they are willing to give players some control but not a significant publisher,yeah ok.

    I might believe some publishers wanted loot boxes or it was discussed but i do not believe that was the end all of those negotiations.I believe the real truth is that the publisher as in almost all cases wanted a very large %,too much for Caspian to accept.So then they negotiated and that is when the mention of other areas to apply added revenue and that is where loot boxes and stuff comes in,however the overall % agreement is where i believe it failed.

    Based on what i know from past games over many years,the deal would depend on the publisher fitting the bill to produce and to publish,then after all expenses a profit divvy where the developer gets very little,maybe 25%.Pretty simple really,the publisher is absorbing most if not all of the risk,so they are going to ask a lot.In this case it is a bit different,IF we believe Caspian and team have done much for the game up to the point of negotiations and how much more they would need from a publisher.
    So somewhere in those numbers,Caspian sees a near identical number from the cash shop as they would achieve from royalties or a % of profits,so he figured the publisher was not a good enough deal.
    What truly baffles me is that they are actually making enough money right now with no real game to keep the venture going,or is that just bull?I remember hearing AFTER the fact,that Curt Schilling's team was working several months for free to try and keep the dreams of the game alive.




    Post edited by Wizardry on
    StaalBurgher

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • XodicXodic Member RarePosts: 890
    What professional title is missing from this Kickstarter roster?



    If you guessed CFO / Accountant, you're a winner!
    JamesGoblinKyleranMrMelGibsonGaladournEponyxDamorpostlarvaldcutbi001MadFrenchieRelampago
  • UngoodUngood Member RarePosts: 1,466
    Wizardry said:
    I mentioned dropping Spacial was a cost saving venture,seems i was correct.

    Reading that letter yet again made me think between the lines,try to decipher what is really  going on because the truth is never an option for developers.
    So what i saw in that letter and what i think about it?

    "based on player feedback"So are they telling us they had no definitive game design but were going to wing it as player feedback comes in?Then they talk about having full control that no publisher seems to want to give them in a partnership.I see some double standards there.So they are willing to give players some control but not a significant publisher,yeah ok.
    There is a difference between taking what your players say to heart and letting that guide your game development, and signing a contract that gives someone else control over how your game is made. Just saying on that one.
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 2,243
    So layoffs, no publisher and no investor?  Things ain't looking good.  I hope no one put thousands into this game.
    JamesGoblin
  • frostymugfrostymug Member RarePosts: 528
    They announced the culling of the team on a game that has a long ways to go and just made a pretty large change to the foundation. Posted some links to community discussions that it doesn't look like they took any part in or made changes based on while they looked for a publisher. Announced no publisher and invoked the latest gaming boogey man, lootboxes, to lighten the impact of that.

    Feels like they are trying to up the bunker mentality in funders to get that us vs them wallet exercise ramped up. Looking like an incoming dev freeze at best to me. 

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,423
    Sometimes it sucks to be the Harbinger.

    THIS is what was foretold. And it absolutely positively sucks for those involved.  

    THIS is what happens when The Ivory Tower refuses to try to speak reality. 

    I honestly hope that some true rationalization happens now and that those remaining get to stay employed. I compared this situation to Pathfinder Online multiple times.  This was a really bad blow, but there is still time to avoid a total shut down. 

    It’s not going to happen with “Praise the Caspien” posts though.

    KyleranYashaXGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,423
    You know...  now that I read this again I am just pissed off. 

    Why do do we have to have the same damn story over and over again? 

    It doesn’t take any magic skill to be a Harbinger.  In this case it was simple common damn sense.  I am really pissed off that real people with real families ONCE AGAIN have to be laid off due to the hubris of a developer and the Ivory Tower.   Will people never learn from history that is plain for anyone to see?  

    Fuck... I think I’m more pissed off right now than I’ve been in a long time.  It’s like... you wonder what the point is of trying to point out inevitable truths if people just ignore the warnings and do the same stupid shit over and over again.

    JamesGoblinYashaXGeezerGamersweetangel20Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 30,468
    Of course, yet unsaid is another solid blow to the timeline. 

    My guess what comes next is a scaling back on the MVP feature set in order to have any chance of delivery in the next 3 years.
    MrMelGibson

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 30,468
    So layoffs, no publisher and no investor?  Things ain't looking good.  I hope no one put thousands into this game.
    In fact the "kings" in this game paid in $10K, and the lessor nobles in for several thousand as I recall.
    MrMelGibson

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 2,243
    Kyleran said:
    So layoffs, no publisher and no investor?  Things ain't looking good.  I hope no one put thousands into this game.
    In fact the "kings" in this game paid in $10K, and the lessor nobles in for several thousand as I recall.

    Any idea where they stand on refunds?
    MrMelGibson
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,067
    RIP Chronicles of Elyria.

    It's not a question of if any more, it's a question of when.
    JamesGoblin
     
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 30,468
    edited January 17
    Kyleran said:
    So layoffs, no publisher and no investor?  Things ain't looking good.  I hope no one put thousands into this game.
    In fact the "kings" in this game paid in $10K, and the lessor nobles in for several thousand as I recall.

    Any idea where they stand on refunds?
    Never permitted any.....

    Which may have to change if someone really pushes the point,  as Roberts Industries found out.
    Post edited by Kyleran on

    "I should run a marathon backwards. So I could see what second place look like" Royce da 5'9"

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 173
    I was going to wait another two weeks before posting this but given this announcement... Funding income still steady two weeks after New Year, not enough time to say one way or the other. Basically they can continue to develop at £100k per month.

    Of the staff picture posted earlier (16 people) are those the remaining people or pre-layoffs?


    YashaXSlapshot1188EponyxDamorGeezerGamerJamesGoblin
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,450
    Kyleran said:
    So layoffs, no publisher and no investor?  Things ain't looking good.  I hope no one put thousands into this game.
    In fact the "kings" in this game paid in $10K, and the lessor nobles in for several thousand as I recall.

    Any idea where they stand on refunds?
    Blood from a stone
    JamesGoblinNilden
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,450
    I was going to wait another two weeks before posting this but given this announcement... Funding income still steady two weeks after New Year, not enough time to say one way or the other. Basically they can continue to develop at £100k per month.

    Of the staff picture posted earlier (16 people) are those the remaining people or pre-layoffs?


    Dude.....Really?

    REALLY?
    Slapshot1188YashaXJamesGoblin
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,423
    I was going to wait another two weeks before posting this but given this announcement... Funding income still steady two weeks after New Year, not enough time to say one way or the other. Basically they can continue to develop at £100k per month.

    Of the staff picture posted earlier (16 people) are those the remaining people or pre-layoffs?


    Seriously?  Talk about being tone deaf...
    YashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,551
    Kyleran said:
    So layoffs, no publisher and no investor?  Things ain't looking good.  I hope no one put thousands into this game.
    In fact the "kings" in this game paid in $10K, and the lessor nobles in for several thousand as I recall.

    Any idea where they stand on refunds?
    Blood from a stone
    This is gonna be one hell of a drama...

  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,404
    edited January 17
    I was going to wait another two weeks before posting this but given this announcement... Funding income still steady two weeks after New Year, not enough time to say one way or the other. Basically they can continue to develop at £100k per month.

    Of the staff picture posted earlier (16 people) are those the remaining people or pre-layoffs?


    Sometimes there are Star Citizen white knights, and then there are CoE white knights, and then there are guys who seem to split their white knighting efforts amongst every crowd funded over-promised MMORPG venture.

    For those poor dear souls, it would be nice if just one crowd funded MMO would finally succeed.  Alas, another one dies every year or so.

    But hey, keep on trucking, dear trooper!  Maybe one of them will bear fruit someday!
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
    YashaX
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,450
    edited January 17
    You know...  now that I read this again I am just pissed off. 

    Why do do we have to have the same damn story over and over again? 

    It doesn’t take any magic skill to be a Harbinger.  In this case it was simple common damn sense.  I am really pissed off that real people with real families ONCE AGAIN have to be laid off due to the hubris of a developer and the Ivory Tower.   Will people never learn from history that is plain for anyone to see?  

    Fuck... I think I’m more pissed off right now than I’ve been in a long time.  It’s like... you wonder what the point is of trying to point out inevitable truths if people just ignore the warnings and do the same stupid shit over and over again.

    This is close to how I feel and why I despise what this developer did. IMO, this whole thing was a piece of shit move from the word GO!

    Crowd funding is a tool that can be used for certain things.  When you look at ED. That game was already in development and they raised 1.7M to complete the project. That is an appropriate use and it worked.

    Here we have Jeromy Walsh coming in here with delusions of grandeur making promises that just didn't line up with reality at any scale to anyone applying even the slightest bit of common sense. Most of us knew everything we are now seeing was going to happen. It didn't take rocket science to see this. 

    SpacialOS, no project management experience, unrealistic timelines, no funding, no financial experience, little development experience, the list goes on. I mean WTF??????

    But, despite all of the obvious, some people bought into it. Now lives are getting ruined, people will be out serious sums of money. And then, this guy, by (IMO) abusing this particular avenue, probably caused some serious future damage for any other indie team who can, for the most part get the job done, but needs a boost.


    But hey! They gave it their best shot right?


    Post edited by GeezerGamer on
    Slapshot1188KyleranStaalBurgherEponyxDamorsweetangel20MadFrenchieGdemami
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 2,276
    So, either never releasing or releasing with nowhere near what they promised.  Nice.
    JamesGoblin
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 5,067
    edited January 17

    @StaalBurgher

    Your Lifetime Average funding is counted wrong. It should be more than $6 000 a day.
    Post edited by Vrika on
     
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher Member UncommonPosts: 173
    edited January 17
    Not sure what you lot are on about. I am just putting the numbers out there. Not claiming it is enough, will last etc etc. They say they can continue at current funding rate. Current funding rate is $100k per month.

    It certainly is not tone deaf as the issue will always be whether they have the cash to continue working. This is literally the only topic that is relevant to SBS. Unless of course "in tune" means you have to cheer for their failure.

    Lifetime average is not wrong, I just hid the starting row by mistake. The collected total on 15/08/17 was $3,080,209. The average works from that date, which I think was the end of Kickstarter.
    Post edited by StaalBurgher on
    JamesGoblinYashaX
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