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Level Scaling Borefest...

24

Comments

  • NephethNepheth Member RarePosts: 473
    I don't think anyone complains about level scaling for WoW in this thread actually tried it or knows how it works. It is nothing like Gw2 or Eso. The zones are not completely scaled for all levels. All zones have some level limitations. You won't die to a mob in Barrens at 110 level. For example, before the patch, Westfall was a 10-15 zone. But after the patch, Westfall now is a 10-60 zone. You still have to be 10 to play in this zone. And you will out level it when you will become 61. So your power won't scale in a low level zone. You can go to Westfall when you are 83 and one shot all the mobs in it. So unlike your complains, leveling up in WoW matters.

    Btw I still don't get the people who complain about level scaling in Gw2 and Eso. I think it is a great system but trust me level scaling in WoW is nothing like that.
    Octagon7711Aethaerynyazuach[Deleted User]MrMelGibsonLucienRene
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,531
    IceAge said:
    I think leveling and questing in WoW, is what I love the most. 

    So .. good bye!

    Wait, what?  How does this change prevent you from leveling and questing?
    yazuach
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    IceAge said:
    I think leveling and questing in WoW, is what I love the most. 

    So .. good bye!

    Wait, what?  How does this change prevent you from leveling and questing?

    While I hate scaling as a max level character with multiple alts at max I agree if you only like leveling and questing the scaling should be great.
    BLNX
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,256
    That's exactly it if you like questing like I do I am actually loving this because the mobs are not easier they remain a challenge and that makes it fun. Plus I nearly died too which hasn't happened in a long time while questing in WoW.
    KyleranMrMelGibson[Deleted User]

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited January 2018
    Nepheth said:
    I don't think anyone complains about level scaling for WoW in this thread actually tried it or knows how it works. It is nothing like Gw2 or Eso. The zones are not completely scaled for all levels. All zones have some level limitations. You won't die to a mob in Barrens at 110 level. For example, before the patch, Westfall was a 10-15 zone. But after the patch, Westfall now is a 10-60 zone. You still have to be 10 to play in this zone. And you will out level it when you will become 61. So your power won't scale in a low level zone. You can go to Westfall when you are 83 and one shot all the mobs in it. So unlike your complains, leveling up in WoW matters.

    Btw I still don't get the people who complain about level scaling in Gw2 and Eso. I think it is a great system but trust me level scaling in WoW is nothing like that.
    I dislike ESO simply because it scales up and down.  Sure, the mobs at endgame are relatively more powerful than in the starter area, but there's still no reason to retain character levels in ESO (specifically considering skills have their own XP bars and the majority of skill points earned are from quests or the world) other than it was originally built that way and removing them would be a shock to the playerbase.

    GW2 had it right imo (and was the same kind of scaling system available in the Witcher 3, coincidentally): mobs scale up so it's always challenging content, but you don't scale up so there are still incredibly dangerous parts of the world to explore once you've gathered a few levels under your belt and are more powerful.
    yazuach

    image
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,256
    I guess everything will attack you too if you are below 60 in the areas where things scale to 60. You cannot just run around with impunity. I think people are really complaining and I guess Blizzard won't have the cojones to stick it out.
    MrMelGibson

  • BladeburaibaBladeburaiba Member UncommonPosts: 128
    PSA, since half of the people responding thinks the OP is complaining the scaling made WOW too hard.

    It seems to me he is saying scaling made the game too EASY, on a game that was too easy to begin with.  Carry on.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    kitarad said:
    I guess everything will attack you too if you are below 60 in the areas where things scale to 60. You cannot just run around with impunity. I think people are really complaining and I guess Blizzard won't have the cojones to stick it out.
    With level 20 mounts, I didn't have a problem getting around on my 39 Mage last night.

    That doesn't mean people aren't complaining, though.  Just saying I think it's overblown when it's pretty easy to avoid combat while mounted.

    image
  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 499
    jimmywolf said:
    doubt you be missed as the way you speak you were mostly a solo player.  the zone scaling is not a 1:1 ratio depending on your level it stops, so you can out level a zone and as you item level got higher when max level thing got easier so scaling is/was a moot point.


    i not big fan of the changes myself but it's made to make the game better an bring new players an encourage old players that were tired of easy mode. 10 years of content that you face roll  within a day an be bored saying it was easy an ignore all lore was not by design. their trying new things since they went from 10 mill + player down to unknown numbers.   
    You totally miss the point.  Nobody is saying that they just want to be able to outlevel a zone.  Any sort of scaling encourages easymode, the opposite of what you say.  If they are scaling, then they are designing the scale for the lowest common denominator, the players that LIKE easymode, or what we consider easymode.

    We want to have the ability to step up a few mob levels when things are too easy, especially when you are running with a buddy.  Sure maybe you can go to a zone with a higher item level cap than designed for your level but odds are it may now be too high unless you are at the upper end of the lower range.

    Before you could step up any number of levels you wanted, now you are locked into ranges that wont fit at least half the time.

    If they are making it so that I can go to what was a max lvl zone at lvl 1 then that is even worse, but I don't think that at least is the case...
  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 499
    SaunZ said:
    I remember when all mmorpg games were referenced to WoW... it is good to see that now all games are referenced to ESO.   It is way better than WoW so it is correct that it is like this now.

    Sz  :)
    have at it.  ESO sucks big imo.  Level scaling is easymode borefest.
  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 499
    I've never been a fan of level scaling.
    Seriously, why even level?

    That's because you don't understand how it works.

    No game with level scaling leaves you at the exact same power level at endgame as you are at the beginning. 

    In ESO for example if you are dying to starter area mobs at CP 160 you are an idiot, period.
    When I compare my game play from older WoW vs GW2, I preferred the older methods. 
    That's all there is to it.

    Fair enough, just sick of the tired and frankly unfounded argument about "no point in leveling up"
    unfounded for you, possibly.  Unfounded for people that like to feel progression while leveling and don't want to have that taken away or lessened in any way, most certainly not.  While this change to WOW still lets you progress to zones with higher item level caps, it removes much of the ability to fine tune your own difficulty level above the standard.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,256
    edited January 2018
    If you are levelling with a friend just pull more mobs than you can handle and that will give you the challenge you want plus I was killing mobs that were higher level. There are mobs which are higher level they are not scaled down to your level at all and they are harder to kill.

    I honestly think people are posting without actually playing after this patch and just making things up.
    NephethMrMelGibson

  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 499
    kitarad said:
    If you are levelling with a friends just pull more mobs plus I was killing mobs that were higher level. There are mobs which are higher level they are not scaled down to your level at all.
    Generally especially with two people it is a challenge to pull enough mobs to make it interesting before the mobs reset or the area is just cleared, especially if you have twinked at all.
  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Member UncommonPosts: 1,237
    Nepheth said:
    I don't think anyone complains about level scaling for WoW in this thread actually tried it or knows how it works. It is nothing like Gw2 or Eso. The zones are not completely scaled for all levels. All zones have some level limitations. You won't die to a mob in Barrens at 110 level. For example, before the patch, Westfall was a 10-15 zone. But after the patch, Westfall now is a 10-60 zone. You still have to be 10 to play in this zone. And you will out level it when you will become 61. So your power won't scale in a low level zone. You can go to Westfall when you are 83 and one shot all the mobs in it. So unlike your complains, leveling up in WoW matters.

    Btw I still don't get the people who complain about level scaling in Gw2 and Eso. I think it is a great system but trust me level scaling in WoW is nothing like that.
    I dislike ESO simply because it scales up and down.  Sure, the mobs at endgame are relatively more powerful than in the starter area, but there's still no reason to retain character levels in ESO (specifically considering skills have their own XP bars and the majority of skill points earned are from quests or the world) other than it was originally built that way and removing them would be a shock to the playerbase.

    GW2 had it right imo (and was the same kind of scaling system available in the Witcher 3, coincidentally): mobs scale up so it's always challenging content, but you don't scale up so there are still incredibly dangerous parts of the world to explore once you've gathered a few levels under your belt and are more powerful.
    Just wanted to correct you. ESO does not scale up and down.  All mobs are level 50 CP 160.  Your character at level one is scaled up to that level. The close you get to max (gear) level of 50 CP 160 to more the scaling is reduced making you more dependent on what you are wearing/doing.

    People seem to confuse what leveling is actually supposed to be for (regardless of how its implemented today).  Levels was just a way to measure growth, where each time you obtained a level you grew in customization (not necessarily power).  This is what ESO has taken MMORPGs back to. You and the mob are the same level, but when you add in high end gear and your champion points you eventually become more powerful than the mob.

    GW2 had scaling up when you to higher levels and scaling down when you go to lower levels (i.e when you are level 24 going to a level 1 zone, you will scale down to level 3). Not trivial but not Rolling over them either.  Going to a higher level the opposite happens.

    Scaling is good, especially for an MMORPG and glad to see the genre trending in that direction.  The idea of outleveling a mob is antiquated game design.
    Iselin

    image
  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Member UncommonPosts: 1,237
    wanderica said:
    The difference here is that WoW is scaling the mobs to you.  In ESO, you are scaled to CP160.  Huge difference there IMO.  With WoW, you will still level up and feel more powerful with each level, but the mobs (in theory) will remain at a static difficulty until you reach the scaling cap for that area.  In ESO, I just felt like I was spinning my wheels until I hit CP160 and had a massive power increase.  Neither of these is my thing, but at least with WoW, they are trying to maintain the feel of traditional MMO leveling.
    You actually dont get a power increase at CP160. If anything you would feel weaker because you typically wouldn't have adequate gear and the scaling advantage would be removed.  Which is why you level up Champion Points to become more powerful.

    What is the point of outleveling content?  I never understood that.  ESO works because it allows you to play anywhere and enjoy the game.  if you want to one shot everything then maybe you should be playing a different game that has 0 difficulty.  Most people playing MMORPGs will welcome that challenge.

    WoW is implementing this because without it leveling was pointless and served the purpose to get to max level.  All the content they created over the 14 years was effectively being wasted.  Those who loved questing would outlevel a storyline after the first few quests and a dungeon run.  Which at that point you might as well level as fast as you can through dungeons to get to the end (to play the real game) since you cant get XP from quests.  It was stupid.   This allows those who love questing to continue questing and FINISH the storyline.  Inadvertently it will also allow player to hang out in lower level zones longer potentially finding stuff they never saw before because they rushed through it.

    Its not perfect, but its a start. What the also need to do is update the rewards across the old zones as well as add new content making it more interesting than just exploring and experiencing old content.
    pantaroMrMelGibsonKyleran

    image
  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Member UncommonPosts: 1,237
    Dvora said:
    jimmywolf said:
    doubt you be missed as the way you speak you were mostly a solo player.  the zone scaling is not a 1:1 ratio depending on your level it stops, so you can out level a zone and as you item level got higher when max level thing got easier so scaling is/was a moot point.


    i not big fan of the changes myself but it's made to make the game better an bring new players an encourage old players that were tired of easy mode. 10 years of content that you face roll  within a day an be bored saying it was easy an ignore all lore was not by design. their trying new things since they went from 10 mill + player down to unknown numbers.   
    You totally miss the point.  Nobody is saying that they just want to be able to outlevel a zone.  Any sort of scaling encourages easymode, the opposite of what you say.  If they are scaling, then they are designing the scale for the lowest common denominator, the players that LIKE easymode, or what we consider easymode.

    We want to have the ability to step up a few mob levels when things are too easy, especially when you are running with a buddy.  Sure maybe you can go to a zone with a higher item level cap than designed for your level but odds are it may now be too high unless you are at the upper end of the lower range.

    Before you could step up any number of levels you wanted, now you are locked into ranges that wont fit at least half the time.

    If they are making it so that I can go to what was a max lvl zone at lvl 1 then that is even worse, but I don't think that at least is the case...
    Run a vet dungeon in ESO and come back and let me know how easy it is.
    MrMelGibson

    image
  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    Loving the scaling so far, and the dungeons are somewhat of a challenge while leveling now so they're actually fun again. At least for now. 
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    WoW is a great game at its core.

    Can't see many negatives, catering to different tastes using all the same assets. I'm looking forward to Classic.

    Have different rule sets for different tastes.

    I'd love it if they took Classic, kept the Vanilla philosophy and eventually added all the Xpacks (excluding Cataclysm ;)  Keep max level 60 with horizontal progression.

    I could see myself subbed for quite a long time :) 


    [Deleted User]

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited January 2018
    Nepheth said:
    I don't think anyone complains about level scaling for WoW in this thread actually tried it or knows how it works. It is nothing like Gw2 or Eso. The zones are not completely scaled for all levels. All zones have some level limitations. You won't die to a mob in Barrens at 110 level. For example, before the patch, Westfall was a 10-15 zone. But after the patch, Westfall now is a 10-60 zone. You still have to be 10 to play in this zone. And you will out level it when you will become 61. So your power won't scale in a low level zone. You can go to Westfall when you are 83 and one shot all the mobs in it. So unlike your complains, leveling up in WoW matters.

    Btw I still don't get the people who complain about level scaling in Gw2 and Eso. I think it is a great system but trust me level scaling in WoW is nothing like that.
    I dislike ESO simply because it scales up and down.  Sure, the mobs at endgame are relatively more powerful than in the starter area, but there's still no reason to retain character levels in ESO (specifically considering skills have their own XP bars and the majority of skill points earned are from quests or the world) other than it was originally built that way and removing them would be a shock to the playerbase.

    GW2 had it right imo (and was the same kind of scaling system available in the Witcher 3, coincidentally): mobs scale up so it's always challenging content, but you don't scale up so there are still incredibly dangerous parts of the world to explore once you've gathered a few levels under your belt and are more powerful.
    Just wanted to correct you. ESO does not scale up and down.  All mobs are level 50 CP 160.  Your character at level one is scaled up to that level. The close you get to max (gear) level of 50 CP 160 to more the scaling is reduced making you more dependent on what you are wearing/doing.

    People seem to confuse what leveling is actually supposed to be for (regardless of how its implemented today).  Levels was just a way to measure growth, where each time you obtained a level you grew in customization (not necessarily power).  This is what ESO has taken MMORPGs back to. You and the mob are the same level, but when you add in high end gear and your champion points you eventually become more powerful than the mob.

    GW2 had scaling up when you to higher levels and scaling down when you go to lower levels (i.e when you are level 24 going to a level 1 zone, you will scale down to level 3). Not trivial but not Rolling over them either.  Going to a higher level the opposite happens.

    Scaling is good, especially for an MMORPG and glad to see the genre trending in that direction.  The idea of outleveling a mob is antiquated game design.
    The end effect is the same: go from starter zone to endgame zone, the mobs are all scaled to be roughly equal to your level.

    GW2, from my experience, didn't scale you upwards or content downwards.  It scaled content upwards when you participated in content below your level.  Going into a zone higher level than you are did not mean you or the content would scale.

    EDIT- to add, simply dismissing levels as antiquated ignores a large part of why such games were constructed that way in the first place: to help tell a cohesive world story to the player.  With scaling throughout, the ability for devs to nudge a player in a certain direction is gone.  That detrimentally affects their ability to tell anything but a smaller, self-contained story within that zone.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

    image
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Nepheth said:
    I don't think anyone complains about level scaling for WoW in this thread actually tried it or knows how it works. It is nothing like Gw2 or Eso. The zones are not completely scaled for all levels. All zones have some level limitations. You won't die to a mob in Barrens at 110 level. For example, before the patch, Westfall was a 10-15 zone. But after the patch, Westfall now is a 10-60 zone. You still have to be 10 to play in this zone. And you will out level it when you will become 61. So your power won't scale in a low level zone. You can go to Westfall when you are 83 and one shot all the mobs in it. So unlike your complains, leveling up in WoW matters.

    Btw I still don't get the people who complain about level scaling in Gw2 and Eso. I think it is a great system but trust me level scaling in WoW is nothing like that.
    I dislike ESO simply because it scales up and down.  Sure, the mobs at endgame are relatively more powerful than in the starter area, but there's still no reason to retain character levels in ESO (specifically considering skills have their own XP bars and the majority of skill points earned are from quests or the world) other than it was originally built that way and removing them would be a shock to the playerbase.

    GW2 had it right imo (and was the same kind of scaling system available in the Witcher 3, coincidentally): mobs scale up so it's always challenging content, but you don't scale up so there are still incredibly dangerous parts of the world to explore once you've gathered a few levels under your belt and are more powerful.
    Just wanted to correct you. ESO does not scale up and down.  All mobs are level 50 CP 160.  Your character at level one is scaled up to that level. The close you get to max (gear) level of 50 CP 160 to more the scaling is reduced making you more dependent on what you are wearing/doing.

    People seem to confuse what leveling is actually supposed to be for (regardless of how its implemented today).  Levels was just a way to measure growth, where each time you obtained a level you grew in customization (not necessarily power).  This is what ESO has taken MMORPGs back to. You and the mob are the same level, but when you add in high end gear and your champion points you eventually become more powerful than the mob.

    GW2 had scaling up when you to higher levels and scaling down when you go to lower levels (i.e when you are level 24 going to a level 1 zone, you will scale down to level 3). Not trivial but not Rolling over them either.  Going to a higher level the opposite happens.

    Scaling is good, especially for an MMORPG and glad to see the genre trending in that direction.  The idea of outleveling a mob is antiquated game design.
    The end effect is the same: go from starter zone to endgame zone, the mobs are all scaled to be roughly equal to your level.

    GW2, from my experience, didn't scale you upwards or content downwards.  It scaled content upwards when you participated in content below your level.  Going into a zone higher level than you are did not mean you or the content would scale.

    EDIT- to add, simply dismissing levels as antiquated ignores a large part of why such games were constructed that way in the first place: to help tell a cohesive world story to the player.  With scaling throughout, the ability for devs to nudge a player in a certain direction is gone.  That detrimentally effects their ability to tell anything but a smaller, self-contained story within that zone.
    I love a good story no matter what level I am. Others think stories are just a waste of time. That is the price of freedom which I think we all love in our MMORPG's.

    That's why I like the idea of what ESO does with the cp's. Get the gear from the story, just with a lower cp. I just wish they could be upgraded to a higher cp, at a cost of course ;)
    MadFrenchieMrMelGibson

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,576
    being able to level in the zones you want and skip the ones you don't sounds great to me
    rojoArcueidsomeforumguyMrMelGibsonlaserit
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    I never really seen the problem with levelscaling in PvE... When you get scaled you usually get so powerful most things is easy while not being grey. Why would you want to play in a grey zone anyways?

    Let's face it, you wouldn't enter those zones if there weren't any scaling anyways. So just go to zones of the correct levelrange and you wont notice any scaling anyways. Scaling just opens up that you can revisit old zones if you feel like it and actually getting some loot there.

    I guess high level speed farmers collecting crafting mats will have to work slightly harder since the mobs will attack you and take a very minimal effort to clear but that would be a mild annoyance at worst.

    Are a lot of people enjoying going into grey zones to slaughter mobs that couldn't kill them een if you went AFK 10 minutes so they can feel like Gods or is it something else I missed?

    In PvP I can see that some people wouldn't enjoy it, a single max level character can't gank tons of noobs and some people enjoy that even if I have a feeling the majority prefer if you can't do that. 

    Now, levelscaling upwards is a very different matter both in PvE and PvP. That I don't like at all, it makes progression feel pointless, even if you can argue that no-one forcing me to go to a high level zone as a noob a lot of people that can't play their character will run around and mess things up in the high level zones and that affects me when I am there. I don't like max level boost either unless you already leveled up at least one char to max so you understand the game. But few MMOs tried anything stupid like that.
  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,087
    People who don't like level scaling somehow don't understand why levels in MMORPG's were introduced.

    The dividing of the world into zones with different level brackets is like this very weak compromise to give you an obvious sense of progression in power as player. This is only done this way because it is less complicated to program and easier on the server side (mob difficulty is just stats and doesn't have to be realtime calculated). But from an immersion point of view, it makes no sense at all.

    All those 'serious threats' you dealt with during your low level quests become a joke the moment you go back and are able to one shot a mob in those zones. So much that it doesn't even make sense that there were threats to begin with. Because all the official guards/soldiers in that zone can one shot them too. This is why it is such a weak compromise.

    I can bet you that any dev would want to have auto level scaling for any MMO back in the past (in the case they didn't go for skill based, although it works in a similar way). It makes the character progression a lot more seamless then when you divide the world in static levels brackets. There are still many ways to make the player feel more powerful when they go back to an older zone. It will just not be ridiculously over the top powerful.
    Tuor7
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,720
    Post a picture deleting everything or you just said that to get attention.

    MrMelGibson




  • centkincentkin Member RarePosts: 1,527
    Well, it kind of removes a sense of accomplishment when you outlevel a zone and the hard mobs are now easy.

    It is kind of "gamey."  It removes a sense of immersion in the world assuming any of that is still left these days. 

    It can depending upon implementation make it so it is hard to hunt for say level+7 monsters for certain classes or duos.  Of course some games also make the loot not occur at that point either which is silly. 

    It removes the impetus to actually explore the world, not that most games do that these days either. 

    ---

    At any rate I don't mind when instances scale, but I prefer my actual world to be static levelwise.

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