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Curiosity ..

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  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    IceAge said:

    Btw, are you playing , I mean .. "testing" the game as we speak ?
    Incidently ... yes.

    Waiting for someone special ;-) to kill with a sniper rifle atm, hidden in the remote corners of Kareah outer hab rings.


    Have fun

  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,526
    hfztt said:
    One post. Three pages of "feed the troll".

    Way to go n00bs...
    Hey n00b. You just feed the "troll" too.

    But then again , I am no troll as I have valid questions. Yes yes , SC will be glorious, we all know. 

    !next
    kikoodutroa8MaxBacon

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited January 2018
    IceAge said:
    hfztt said:
    One post. Three pages of "feed the troll".

    Way to go n00bs...
    Hey n00b. You just feed the "troll" too.

    But then again , I am no troll as I have valid questions. Yes yes , SC will be glorious, we all know. 

    !next
    The hilarious thing is you answering to someone who is quite a critic of SC with that argument. gg
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Employee numbers, especially when they are trying to hide things, is a very misleading number in accounting.  Now, employees with health benefits, that is a good number.  Would they ever release that?  The answer is as simple as: will SC deliver on their promises - no.  (unfortunately)
    The numbers are identical in Germany and the UK; its a non-issue.
    Darkpigeon
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Erillion said:
    **snip **
    No he's not.  He is trying to finish a game in which he squandered millions of dollars of people's money on non-development luxuries (I'm not talking about a coffee maker).  **snip**
    Do you have - dare i say it - proof for these serious allegations ?

    Or is this just more of the baseless slander from anonymous people that hide behind their nameless internet existence ?


    Have fun

    I do not have direct evidence.  So you are correct in saying there is no direct evidence.  What I do have is the ability to look at the situation, the facts surrounding the situation, and then draw a conclusion.  This is different than simply stating an opinion.  It is based on a culmination of inferences.  

    That is what I have.  I do not have receipts though.  So, for that, you are correct.    
    Erillion
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 174
    gervaise1 said:
    Employee numbers, especially when they are trying to hide things, is a very misleading number in accounting.  Now, employees with health benefits, that is a good number.  Would they ever release that?  The answer is as simple as: will SC deliver on their promises - no.  (unfortunately)
    The numbers are identical in Germany and the UK; its a non-issue.

    What numbers are you referring to?  And why would it make a difference if they are the same?  An employee, especially a contract employee, tells us nothing.  Small businesses hire ten, fifty, sometimes even hundreds of contract employees every year.  It doesn't mean that those employees have the same efficiency or output of a full time employee.  

    That is what I said earlier.  Show me numbers of employees with health benefits (if in America).  If you are in Germany, show me the number of employees that are unionized and working full time (according to the union) for this company.  UK, I do not know how to measure.  But, in the US, that is definitely the way to measure a company's input/output.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    gervaise1 said:
    Employee numbers, especially when they are trying to hide things, is a very misleading number in accounting.  Now, employees with health benefits, that is a good number.  Would they ever release that?  The answer is as simple as: will SC deliver on their promises - no.  (unfortunately)
    The numbers are identical in Germany and the UK; its a non-issue.

    What numbers are you referring to?  And why would it make a difference if they are the same?  An employee, especially a contract employee, tells us nothing.  Small businesses hire ten, fifty, sometimes even hundreds of contract employees every year.  It doesn't mean that those employees have the same efficiency or output of a full time employee.  

    That is what I said earlier.  Show me numbers of employees with health benefits (if in America).  If you are in Germany, show me the number of employees that are unionized and working full time (according to the union) for this company.  UK, I do not know how to measure.  But, in the US, that is definitely the way to measure a company's input/output.
    In Germany a lot of employees are not union members. So that number does not help you.

    However, EVERY employee has health insurance there. Its mandatory.

    Companies use FTE (full time equivalent) as a number to determine how many "effective" employees they have. A company may have 3.75 FTE  (2 full time employees, 2 half time employees, 3 student helpers //  2 x 1 + 2 x 0.5 + 3 x 0.25 = 3.75 )


    Have fun
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Erillion said:
    gervaise1 said:
    Employee numbers, especially when they are trying to hide things, is a very misleading number in accounting.  Now, employees with health benefits, that is a good number.  Would they ever release that?  The answer is as simple as: will SC deliver on their promises - no.  (unfortunately)
    The numbers are identical in Germany and the UK; its a non-issue.

    What numbers are you referring to?  And why would it make a difference if they are the same?  An employee, especially a contract employee, tells us nothing.  Small businesses hire ten, fifty, sometimes even hundreds of contract employees every year.  It doesn't mean that those employees have the same efficiency or output of a full time employee.  

    That is what I said earlier.  Show me numbers of employees with health benefits (if in America).  If you are in Germany, show me the number of employees that are unionized and working full time (according to the union) for this company.  UK, I do not know how to measure.  But, in the US, that is definitely the way to measure a company's input/output.
    In Germany a lot of employees are not union members. So that number does not help you.

    However, EVERY employee has health insurance there. Its mandatory.

    Companies use FTE (full time equivalent) as a number to determine how many "effective" employees they have. A company may have 3.75 FTE  (2 full time employees, 2 half time employees, 3 student helpers //  2 x 1 + 2 x 0.5 + 3 x 0.25 = 3.75 )


    Have fun

    Great.  So you have your equation.  Now, where are there numbers.  That is the part I am asking.  If you say most are not unionized, in a country that is heavily unionized, then there may be a discrepancy.  But, what I am asking (student helpers are not employees), is how many full time, non-contractual (in the sense they are hired for a small job or piece of a job, often in the hopes of getting full time), unionized employees do they have?  Then, how many full time, non-contractual, non-unionized employees do they have?  

    The number does not exist when I look it up.  And that was my whole point.  Often, companies that hide those things are also hiding other things.  
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 174
    PS - If you give me a number it would greatly alley my fears, and I would be grateful.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    PS - If you give me a number it would greatly alley my fears, and I would be grateful.
    The only ones that can accurately answer this question for you:

    Foundry 42 Frankfurt
    Europa-Allee 52, 60327 Frankfurt am Main, Deutschland

    Did you ask them ?


    Have fun
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Erillion said:
    PS - If you give me a number it would greatly alley my fears, and I would be grateful.
    The only ones that can accurately answer this question for you:

    Foundry 42 Frankfurt
    Europa-Allee 52, 60327 Frankfurt am Main, Deutschland

    Did you ask them ?


    Have fun

    That is my initial concern.  They will not publish them.  Bioware, no problem.  Bethesda, no problem.  CDProjekt Red, no problem.  Secret super-secret SC? grumph grumph, don't look over here.
    IceAge
  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,526
    Erillion said:
    PS - If you give me a number it would greatly alley my fears, and I would be grateful.
    The only ones that can accurately answer this question for you:

    Foundry 42 Frankfurt
    Europa-Allee 52, 60327 Frankfurt am Main, Deutschland

    Did you ask them ?


    Have fun
    You are like the ones with flat earth theory. When they have nothing else to say , they are like "did you saw earth from space with your own eyes? No? Then go see it". But when I asks them "Where is the edge of your flat earth?" , they are like "Go and see it for yourself if you want proves. I am not going to do that for you" .

    So yeah! SC will release when flat earth-ers will believe the earth is round ! :)


    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    IceAge said:
    Erillion said:
    PS - If you give me a number it would greatly alley my fears, and I would be grateful.
    The only ones that can accurately answer this question for you:

    Foundry 42 Frankfurt
    Europa-Allee 52, 60327 Frankfurt am Main, Deutschland

    Did you ask them ?


    Have fun
    You are like the ones with flat earth theory. When they have nothing else to say , they are like "did you saw earth from space with your own eyes? No? Then go see it". But when I asks them "Where is the edge of your flat earth?" , they are like "Go and see it for yourself if you want proves. I am not going to do that for you" .

    So yeah! SC will release when flat earth-ers will believe the earth is round ! :)


    You do not like it when someone gives an honest answer, do you ?

    I told @penandpaper that the only ones who know the answer are Foundry 42 Frankfurt. He can ask others, but they will not be able to answer his question.


    Have fun
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235

    That is my initial concern.  They will not publish them.  Bioware, no problem.  Bethesda, no problem.  CDProjekt Red, no problem.  Secret super-secret SC? grumph grumph, don't look over here.
    Big difference between private companies and those listed on the stock exchange.

    The latter are required to publish certain information, the former ... do not.

    However, i have read quite a few company reports and NONE of them list the
    >>>>number of employees that are unionized and working full time (according to the union) for this company.>>>>

    You usually get the total number of employees and a total number for social security and pension cost.

    See for example the report of Frontier (Elite Dangerous), especially page 39
    https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/development/frontier-corp/s3fs-public/press-releases/financial/FrontierAR17-FullReport.pdf
    You get a lot more information on the managers and what they cost.

    I did NOT find any information from Bioware, Bethesda (=Zenimax) or CDProjekt Red on the number of employees that are unionized and working full time (according to the union) for this company.

    So I assume you just made up that claim.


    Have fun
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Erillion said:

    That is my initial concern.  They will not publish them.  Bioware, no problem.  Bethesda, no problem.  CDProjekt Red, no problem.  Secret super-secret SC? grumph grumph, don't look over here.
    Big difference between private companies and those listed on the stock exchange.

    The latter are required to publish certain information, the former ... do not.

    However, i have read quite a few company reports and NONE of them list the
    >>>>number of employees that are unionized and working full time (according to the union) for this company.>>>>

    You usually get the total number of employees and a total number for social security and pension cost.

    See for example the report of Frontier (Elite Dangerous), especially page 39
    https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/development/frontier-corp/s3fs-public/press-releases/financial/FrontierAR17-FullReport.pdf
    You get a lot more information on the managers and what they cost.

    I did NOT find any information from Bioware, Bethesda (=Zenimax) or CDProjekt Red on the number of employees that are unionized and working full time (according to the union) for this company.

    So I assume you just made up that claim.


    Have fun

    Skyrim had nearly 100 full time programmers.  Approximately 30% were hired halfway through the developing process.  That is directly from Todd Howard, one of the lead developers.  He stated it.  Why?  Because he has nothing to hide.  For Fallout, there were approximately 70 full time programmers.  

    Again, it has nothing to do with private or public.  It has to do with transparency.  And when you take over 100 million dollars of other people's money, then you should be transparent.  Hence: "Hey guys, we'd like you to know we spent another 400,000 hiring two more programmers.  There names are John and Sally.  They will be helping us with the planetary systems and bug decoding."

    But, that is someone who is going to produce a game they promised.  
    Phaserlight
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    >>>
    Again, it has nothing to do with private or public.  It has to do with transparency.  And when you take over 100 million dollars of other people's money, then you should be transparent.  Hence: "Hey guys, we'd like you to know we spent another 400,000 hiring two more programmers.  There names are John and Sally.  They will be helping us with the planetary systems and bug decoding."
    >>>

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of monthly SC reports, where "John and Sally" have been introduced time and time again in the studio reports.

    Me seems you have never seen a "Jump Point" Magazine where the teams were introduced in many-page detail, in their own words.

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of "Dev Talk" and "Dev Happy Hour" v-blogs, where various employees have been introduced.

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of the "10 Questions to XXX" (XXX not being the Chairman) where even more people were talking.

    Me seems you may want to check on the CIG/RSI/Foundry job ads, were new people are being searched for ... and people ask the company about it (e.g. LinkedIn) and get answers.


    So ... CIG has been doing that for years ... but you seem to be not aware of it.


    Have fun
  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,526
    Erillion said:

    That is my initial concern.  They will not publish them.  Bioware, no problem.  Bethesda, no problem.  CDProjekt Red, no problem.  Secret super-secret SC? grumph grumph, don't look over here.
    Big difference between private companies and those listed on the stock exchange.

    The latter are required to publish certain information, the former ... do not.

    However, i have read quite a few company reports and NONE of them list the
    >>>>number of employees that are unionized and working full time (according to the union) for this company.>>>>

    You usually get the total number of employees and a total number for social security and pension cost.

    See for example the report of Frontier (Elite Dangerous), especially page 39
    https://frontier-drupal.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/development/frontier-corp/s3fs-public/press-releases/financial/FrontierAR17-FullReport.pdf
    You get a lot more information on the managers and what they cost.

    I did NOT find any information from Bioware, Bethesda (=Zenimax) or CDProjekt Red on the number of employees that are unionized and working full time (according to the union) for this company.

    So I assume you just made up that claim.


    Have fun
    When you are funded by the players, you are not called "private". You want to be private? Go fund from private sources, but as long as you are ..openly funded by players , you need to be transparent in "almost" ( if not all ) everything.

    As I stated few times in the past, if I would of been a backer of this "project" , I would 100% want to know wtf are they doing with my money. Who did they hire last time , what is the total production cost until now ,  etc.

    But no! That's "private" , because a lot of cash has been gone on ...fluff "items" for sure.  Oh .. your money also!

    Have fun
    Phaserlight

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    IceAge said:
    When you are funded by the players, you are not called "private". You want to be private? Go fund from private sources, but as long as you are ..openly funded by players , you need to be transparent in "almost" ( if not all ) everything.

    As I stated few times in the past, if I would of been a backer of this "project" , I would 100% want to know wtf are they doing with my money. Who did they hire last time , what is the total production cost until now ,  etc.

    But no! That's "private" , because a lot of cash has been gone on ...fluff "items" for sure.  Oh .. your money also!

    Have fun
    Too bad reality disagrees with your fantasy.

    CIG is a LLC and there are very specific requirements and definitions for a LLC.

    And i AM a backer of this project and i DO know what they are doing with my money. I feel sufficiently informed .... and there is A LOT of available information. Many people - especially non-backers - are just too lazy to access this information. Personally I do NOT need to know whom they hired as QA assistant no. 13. Maybe you do. Although i have no idea why you would want to know, as you are not even a backer.


    Have fun
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,007
    Erillion said:
    IceAge said:
    When you are funded by the players, you are not called "private". You want to be private? Go fund from private sources, but as long as you are ..openly funded by players , you need to be transparent in "almost" ( if not all ) everything.

    As I stated few times in the past, if I would of been a backer of this "project" , I would 100% want to know wtf are they doing with my money. Who did they hire last time , what is the total production cost until now ,  etc.

    But no! That's "private" , because a lot of cash has been gone on ...fluff "items" for sure.  Oh .. your money also!

    Have fun
    Too bad reality disagrees with your fantasy.

    CIG is a LLC and there are very specific requirements and definitions for a LLC.

    And i AM a backer of this project and i DO know what they are doing with my money. I feel sufficiently informed .... and there is A LOT of available information. Many people - especially non-backers - are just too lazy to access this information. Personally I do NOT need to know whom they hired as QA assistant no. 13. Maybe you do. Although i have no idea why you would want to know, as you are not even a backer.


    Have fun
    CIG has published a veritable datastorm of sound bites, in depth developer interviews, "shows", and (natch) concept art.

    What they haven't done in the U.S. is meet the financial reporting standards for a publicly traded company.  They aren't obligated to.  However, it seems like they should.  Right now CIG is operating in this weird evolutionary eddy where they are taking money from the public without the pressure of reporting standards for a public company, on an unprecedented scale.  I don't expect everyone to understand why that's important.  Having been educated in business at a graduate level let me just say it's important.

    At some point it will be an interesting bit of history.
    IceAge

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    edited January 2018
    Yep, in part because I'm an accountant so I get particularly personal about this sort of thing, I've brought it up before quite a few times.  They get all the benefits of secrecy with their financials despite relying on outside funding like publically traded or not-for-profit companies do just because crowdfunding is so new that they can and are just loopholing around the whole thing on technicalities.  And yet most backers don't care.

    But that's fine.  I'm sure soon enough they'll all learn why they should have cared, the hard way.
    MaxBaconPhaserlightIceAge
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    IceAge said:
    MaxBacon said:
    For the official stretch goals, there's one maintained with each known status here: 

    https://starcitizen.tools/Stretch_Goals

    24 Complete
    35 In Progress
    39 Unknown
    23 In Concept
    3 On Hold / After Launch

    So! From a total of 121 ( +3 at launch ) , 24 are completed in .. 5 or so years? That's around ...20% ? 

    Well, I don't know how old are you , but I hope your hands will not shake ( to fast ) , when SC will be released ( I mean, when they will complete the goals which they promised if X amount of $ will be donated ) .

    That is the info new players needs to receive. Where exactly are they now with development. So, if this was the first time I was hearing about SC and would of think to support the game, well .. based on the above info, I would of say "..ok, i'll call you" .


    If I had to make one example of bad data science, this would be it. Effectively you're making the assumption that all work is of equal effort and you apply that towards a limited sample. Basically, if we were to use this type of logic and apply it to something like Artifical Intelligence, then we should expect to see robotic wives/husbands hitting the JC Penny catalog next week. 

    It just doesn't work. In order to actually, accurately estimate the progress, you'd need to assess the effort of each of the items completed versus the estimated effort for each item still remaining. We get help on some of this with roadmaps, etc., but with the reliability of RSI's scheduling, we end up with an margin for error that is quite large. Also, without knowing what these items are, we can't say whether or not there is a possiblity that they would be dropped. 

    About the best gauge you could get for a timeline would be googling typical software development timelines. What you'll find is that the public testing phases of development last anywhere from 10% to 30% of the product development. So if we were to say that Alpha 3 was the true start of this public testing, then you'd be looking at another 1.5-2 years of development at most. Then again, this project is anything but typical, so maybe it will be longer. However, I'll guarantee it won't be 20 more years. 
    MaxBacongervaise1

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited January 2018
    CrazKanuk said:
    If I had to make one example of bad data science, this would be it. Effectively you're making the assumption that all work is of equal effort and you apply that towards a limited sample. Basically, if we were to use this type of logic and apply it to something like Artifical Intelligence, then we should expect to see robotic wives/husbands hitting the JC Penny catalog next week. 

    It just doesn't work. In order to actually, accurately estimate the progress, you'd need to assess the effort of each of the items completed versus the estimated effort for each item still remaining. We get help on some of this with roadmaps, etc., but with the reliability of RSI's scheduling, we end up with an margin for error that is quite large. Also, without knowing what these items are, we can't say whether or not there is a possiblity that they would be dropped. 

    About the best gauge you could get for a timeline would be googling typical software development timelines. What you'll find is that the public testing phases of development last anywhere from 10% to 30% of the product development. So if we were to say that Alpha 3 was the true start of this public testing, then you'd be looking at another 1.5-2 years of development at most. Then again, this project is anything but typical, so maybe it will be longer. However, I'll guarantee it won't be 20 more years. 
    Yeah same logical thinking I tried to explain, but no point he didn't come to have a discussion, ends with implying mental issues, the usual "you're a cultist and delusional" type of argument. No idea why continuing feeding this level of toxicity, if his logic assessing progress means for him SC will take 20 years to deliver what's left, do what...
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Erillion said:
    >>>
    Again, it has nothing to do with private or public.  It has to do with transparency.  And when you take over 100 million dollars of other people's money, then you should be transparent.  Hence: "Hey guys, we'd like you to know we spent another 400,000 hiring two more programmers.  There names are John and Sally.  They will be helping us with the planetary systems and bug decoding."
    >>>

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of monthly SC reports, where "John and Sally" have been introduced time and time again in the studio reports.

    Me seems you have never seen a "Jump Point" Magazine where the teams were introduced in many-page detail, in their own words.

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of "Dev Talk" and "Dev Happy Hour" v-blogs, where various employees have been introduced.

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of the "10 Questions to XXX" (XXX not being the Chairman) where even more people were talking.

    Me seems you may want to check on the CIG/RSI/Foundry job ads, were new people are being searched for ... and people ask the company about it (e.g. LinkedIn) and get answers.


    So ... CIG has been doing that for years ... but you seem to be not aware of it.


    Have fun
    Just like EQNext did, right?

    I want him to publish accurate numbers that can be backed up by tax filings.  That's all.  That is transparency.  
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited January 2018
    Erillion said:
    >>>
    Again, it has nothing to do with private or public.  It has to do with transparency.  And when you take over 100 million dollars of other people's money, then you should be transparent.  Hence: "Hey guys, we'd like you to know we spent another 400,000 hiring two more programmers.  There names are John and Sally.  They will be helping us with the planetary systems and bug decoding."
    >>>

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of monthly SC reports, where "John and Sally" have been introduced time and time again in the studio reports.

    Me seems you have never seen a "Jump Point" Magazine where the teams were introduced in many-page detail, in their own words.

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of "Dev Talk" and "Dev Happy Hour" v-blogs, where various employees have been introduced.

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of the "10 Questions to XXX" (XXX not being the Chairman) where even more people were talking.

    Me seems you may want to check on the CIG/RSI/Foundry job ads, were new people are being searched for ... and people ask the company about it (e.g. LinkedIn) and get answers.


    So ... CIG has been doing that for years ... but you seem to be not aware of it.


    Have fun
    Just like EQNext did, right?

    I want him to publish accurate numbers that can be backed up by tax filings.  That's all.  That is transparency.  


    Well you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and I'll bet I can predict which will fill up first. 

    Your idea of transparency is unrealistic. You show me a handful of game companies with the level of transparency that you're talking about. See, the nice thing about transparency is that is what we call a moving goalpost. I tell you what you want to hear, and then you tell me I'm not being completely transparent because I'm hiding the truth about my waist size. Honestly, it's arguments like this one you're making that actually retards the transparency movement because who the FUCK in their right mind would want to claim to be transparent when you've got people with ridiculously distorted perspectives of what that should look like? Honestly, comments like these do NOTHING to progress the transparency movement in game development. 
    gervaise1

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,007
    edited January 2018
    CrazKanuk said:
    Erillion said:
    >>>
    Again, it has nothing to do with private or public.  It has to do with transparency.  And when you take over 100 million dollars of other people's money, then you should be transparent.  Hence: "Hey guys, we'd like you to know we spent another 400,000 hiring two more programmers.  There names are John and Sally.  They will be helping us with the planetary systems and bug decoding."
    >>>

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of monthly SC reports, where "John and Sally" have been introduced time and time again in the studio reports.

    Me seems you have never seen a "Jump Point" Magazine where the teams were introduced in many-page detail, in their own words.

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of "Dev Talk" and "Dev Happy Hour" v-blogs, where various employees have been introduced.

    Me seems you have missed A LOT of the "10 Questions to XXX" (XXX not being the Chairman) where even more people were talking.

    Me seems you may want to check on the CIG/RSI/Foundry job ads, were new people are being searched for ... and people ask the company about it (e.g. LinkedIn) and get answers.


    So ... CIG has been doing that for years ... but you seem to be not aware of it.


    Have fun
    Just like EQNext did, right?

    I want him to publish accurate numbers that can be backed up by tax filings.  That's all.  That is transparency.  


    Well you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and I'll bet I can predict which will fill up first. 

    Your idea of transparency is unrealistic. You show me a handful of game companies with the level of transparency that you're talking about. See, the nice thing about transparency is that is what we call a moving goalpost. I tell you what you want to hear, and then you tell me I'm not being completely transparent because I'm hiding the truth about my waist size. Honestly, it's arguments like this one you're making that actually retards the transparency movement because who the FUCK in their right mind would want to claim to be transparent when you've got people with ridiculously distorted perspectives of what that should look like? Honestly, comments like these do NOTHING to progress the transparency movement in game development. 
    That's an easy one: Frontier Developments:

    https://www.frontier.co.uk/annual-report

    Say what you want about their game, they've attained the level of financial transparency I'd like to see from CIG on the whole due to their operating methods.

    Some companies above a certain size ($10 million in assets being a 'magic number') are required to do this in the U.S. annually by law:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_10-K

    CIG isn't publicly traded, but they are taking money from the public at large and making promises.
    Post edited by Phaserlight on

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

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