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State of Elyria update from Caspien (Jan 2018)

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,928
    edited February 15
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    I agree.  Anyone who looks can see how doubtful I was about Ashes.  I still think Steven is sketchy BUT he has done what he said he would do and he’s doing it roughly when he said he would. Other than their referral program they have done nothing I can fault.  I’ve posted elsewhere how impressive their progress has been. Hopefully it eventually takes away the excuse that it’s ok to be years late because all Crowdfunded projects are like that...


    As as a matter of fact.  Ashes is a good example for the realistic VS pessimistic VS Dreamer discussion above.  As they have shown actual progress and an ability to deliver on what the say they will do, criticism is largely gone.  People now complain they don’t like the art or the combat.... normal MMO stuff.  The discussion isn’t around whether or not they will be able to launch.   It’s amazing how simply doing what you say you will and doing it when you say you will can defang critics.

    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    GdemamiKyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • cjmarshcjmarsh Member UncommonPosts: 299
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    I agree.  Anyone who looks can see how doubtful I was about Ashes.  I still think Steven is sketchy BUT he has done what he said he would do and he’s doing it roughly when he said he would. Other than their referral program they have done nothing I can fault.  I’ve posted elsewhere how impressive their progress has been. Hopefully it eventually takes away the excuse that it’s ok to be years late because all Crowdfunded projects are like that...


    As as a matter of fact.  Ashes is a good example for the realistic VS pessimistic VS Dreamer discussion above.  As they have shown actual progress and an ability to deliver on what the say they will do, criticism is largely gone.  People now complain they don’t like the art or the combat.... normal MMO stuff.  The discussion isn’t around whether or not they will be able to launch.   It’s amazing how simply doing what you say you will and doing it when you say you will can defang critics.

    I hate to play devil's advocate here (not really, I actually quite enjoy it) but I'm not entirely sold on Ashes myself. They've shown a very early piece of their work and frankly it's the wrong thing to have been working on at this stage unless they're looking to appease the crowd that funded them. While that is fine to a degree, they have a lot more work to go then most people realize. They have a lot of impressive art assets and effects, to be sure, but the core of the game, where the "fun" is, has barely been established. It looks like they've been working on things they can show backers immediately and that is a major problem because all the structural and architectural things could be neglected as a result. It's still too early to tell either way, but what we've seen so far is not an indication of the game's success or even it's chance to be finished.
    GdemamiJamesGoblin
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,928
    cjmarsh said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    I agree.  Anyone who looks can see how doubtful I was about Ashes.  I still think Steven is sketchy BUT he has done what he said he would do and he’s doing it roughly when he said he would. Other than their referral program they have done nothing I can fault.  I’ve posted elsewhere how impressive their progress has been. Hopefully it eventually takes away the excuse that it’s ok to be years late because all Crowdfunded projects are like that...


    As as a matter of fact.  Ashes is a good example for the realistic VS pessimistic VS Dreamer discussion above.  As they have shown actual progress and an ability to deliver on what the say they will do, criticism is largely gone.  People now complain they don’t like the art or the combat.... normal MMO stuff.  The discussion isn’t around whether or not they will be able to launch.   It’s amazing how simply doing what you say you will and doing it when you say you will can defang critics.

    I hate to play devil's advocate here (not really, I actually quite enjoy it) but I'm not entirely sold on Ashes myself. They've shown a very early piece of their work and frankly it's the wrong thing to have been working on at this stage unless they're looking to appease the crowd that funded them. While that is fine to a degree, they have a lot more work to go then most people realize. They have a lot of impressive art assets and effects, to be sure, but the core of the game, where the "fun" is, has barely been established. It looks like they've been working on things they can show backers immediately and that is a major problem because all the structural and architectural things could be neglected as a result. It's still too early to tell either way, but what we've seen so far is not an indication of the game's success or even it's chance to be finished.
    I dunno about that.  I watched (ok hopped around) a video just a few days ago where they went into an actual dungeon.  It seemed to have multiple levels and was populated by mobs.   Did it need polish, absolutely... but it appeared to be quite playable.  And trust me... I am not a big fanboy.  I busted Steven's chops as badly as Caspien's. You can go and check out my skepticism on these forums :)

    Could they release the game today? No.  Could it just be smoke and mirrors? Possibly.  But all I ask is that people: Say what they mean. Do what they say. And do it reasonably close to when they say they will.   So far he hasn't given me any ammunition to criticize.  I'm always looking though... so that could change!
     
    GdemamiKyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • cjmarshcjmarsh Member UncommonPosts: 299
    edited February 15
    cjmarsh said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    I agree.  Anyone who looks can see how doubtful I was about Ashes.  I still think Steven is sketchy BUT he has done what he said he would do and he’s doing it roughly when he said he would. Other than their referral program they have done nothing I can fault.  I’ve posted elsewhere how impressive their progress has been. Hopefully it eventually takes away the excuse that it’s ok to be years late because all Crowdfunded projects are like that...


    As as a matter of fact.  Ashes is a good example for the realistic VS pessimistic VS Dreamer discussion above.  As they have shown actual progress and an ability to deliver on what the say they will do, criticism is largely gone.  People now complain they don’t like the art or the combat.... normal MMO stuff.  The discussion isn’t around whether or not they will be able to launch.   It’s amazing how simply doing what you say you will and doing it when you say you will can defang critics.

    I hate to play devil's advocate here (not really, I actually quite enjoy it) but I'm not entirely sold on Ashes myself. They've shown a very early piece of their work and frankly it's the wrong thing to have been working on at this stage unless they're looking to appease the crowd that funded them. While that is fine to a degree, they have a lot more work to go then most people realize. They have a lot of impressive art assets and effects, to be sure, but the core of the game, where the "fun" is, has barely been established. It looks like they've been working on things they can show backers immediately and that is a major problem because all the structural and architectural things could be neglected as a result. It's still too early to tell either way, but what we've seen so far is not an indication of the game's success or even it's chance to be finished.
    I dunno about that.  I watched (ok hopped around) a video just a few days ago where they went into an actual dungeon.  It seemed to have multiple levels and was populated by mobs.   Did it need polish, absolutely... but it appeared to be quite playable.  And trust me... I am not a big fanboy.  I busted Steven's chops as badly as Caspien's. You can go and check out my skepticism on these forums :)

    Could they release the game today? No.  Could it just be smoke and mirrors? Possibly.  But all I ask is that people: Say what they mean. Do what they say. And do it reasonably close to when they say they will.   So far he hasn't given me any ammunition to criticize.  I'm always looking though... so that could change!
     
    I watched the same video and that is what I was referring to. The thing is, people don't tend to realize how much of game development goes on behind what they can see and get blinded by the pretty prototypes. While there was a lot of scenery (art assets) and it looked nice, I didn't see a lot of mechanics in play other than the basic... I would say tab-targeted but it looked like they only had mouse clicking implemented... combat against enemies with minimal AI. The jumping and moving animations looked like stock animations or testing animations based on the fluidity of motion. The combat effects looked really good, but they were far too much and seemed to be balanced with a single player in mind. My point is, there is a long way to go and you can't judge a progress of a game by how nice the prototype looks. In a lot of ways, Ashes has the same problem as CoE, there is a lot of front end focus with little evidence of a robust back end and feature set in place to support it.

    Edit: But people doing what they say and what they meant I fully support!
    Post edited by cjmarsh on
    GdemamiJamesGoblinYashaX
  • AshyLarry24AshyLarry24 Member UncommonPosts: 208
    edited February 15
    @Kyleran

    He IS taking action.... And you are quoting Nicholas Sparks lol.  WTF?

    ANd I got nothing against Ashes, but it's nothing more than an Americanized version of BDO.  They don't have anything close to the uphill battle CoE has.

    ANd if you want to talk about BS reason to start a Kickstarter.  At least Jeromy actually needed to start one in order to get his game made.  Ashes is funded by a multi millionnaire and has over 60 employees, and STILL went to kickstarter.

    I'll probably end up buying it, or at least checking it out if they have a free weekend or something.  But still to expect CoE to be on their level of content already is a bit silly IMO.  I agree they need to get more to show this year, but come on it's not exactly a fair comparison.
    Post edited by AshyLarry24 on
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,928
    @Kyleran

    He IS taking action.... And you are quoting Nicholas Sparks lol.  WTF?

    ANd I got nothing against Ashes, but it's nothing more than an Americanized version of BDO.  They don't have anything close to the uphill battle CoE has.

    ANd if you want to talk about BS reason to start a Kickstarter.  At least Jeromy actually needed to start one in order to get his game made.  Ashes is funded by a multi millionnaire and has over 60 employees, and STILL went to kickstarter.

    I'll probably end up buying it, or at least checking it out if they have a free weekend or something.  But still to expect CoE to be on their level of content already is a bit silly IMO.  I agree they need to get more to show this year, but come on it's not exactly a fair comparison.
    I haven't bought Ashes.  And it's not about who has more challenges to their design or finances.  As a prospective customer I only care that they do what they say they will do, when they say they will.  

    Again though... when you say it's "silly" to expect CoE to be at the same level of development at this point...  come on man... Jeromy is the one that said the game would be fully launched by now and also defended that timeline when challenged.  So yeah, I think it's fair to compare.

    But let's not go too far down that rabbit hole as it's not an Ashes thread.  What I THINK everyone can agree (dreamer or realist) is that they need to start demonstrating tangible progress this year. No matter what Ashes, CU or CF do.


    cjmarshAshyLarry24GdemamiKyleran

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • cjmarshcjmarsh Member UncommonPosts: 299
    SBS needs to focus on stress testing and scaling their back end. When I hear they're working on the character creator and crafting mechanics, I just hope that the engineers on them aren't proficient in networking.
  • DleatherusDleatherus Member UncommonPosts: 158
    edited February 15
    so many points to make here - i'll try and be brief on each one so as not to clutter

    i agree that they need to produce something tangible this year otherwise public support might suffer - that said they have long stated that their focus would be to build the backend and underlying game mechanics first (something referred to by Caspian as their 'rope bridge' approach to development)
    it was always clear, to me at least, that they weren't going to focus up front on tethering themselves to producing flashy front end graphics in an existing engine, with store bought 3d assets

    the delay in the release date, though a bummer, isn't something that personally surprised me
    where some here call Caspian a liar and a scammer for it, i know when i was considerably younger, and starting my own company, and i was driven, passionate, and overly enthusiastic and believed i could conquer any obstacle as easily as i could conquer rats in a level 1 dungeon, i too publicly declared unrealistic goals and time frames - not out of any malice or intended deception, but it being my first go around, my zeal and inexperience blinded my eyes to some realities - being successfully retired, i can now look back and smile and judge for myself if somebody else is scamming, or merely over zealous in their expectations

    one thing i think we can agree upon, be it harbinger, or avid supporter, is that if they bring the game out and it includes the majority of their promised features, it's gonna be one helluva game!
    Post edited by Dleatherus on
    mystichazeKylerancjmarshAshyLarry24
  • UngoodUngood Member RarePosts: 1,080
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    Well I have been watching Crowfall and Panethon.

    I am not sure what is that Others have Put Out that CoE is not already doing.
    • World Map Videos - Check
    • Character Models & Creation - Check. 
    • Combat - Check
    • Kingdom Management Videos - Check
    • Bunch of Art - Check
    • Journal Updates - Check
    In fact, CoE, has put out a ton of stuff showing they are constantly working on this project, constantly moving forward, and making sure the public sees their progress.

    I really ca't think of what more they could put out, if it;s simply an issue of their progress not being fast enough for you.. well.. there is nothing I can in that regard other then.. too bad.
    DleatherusJamesGoblinYashaX
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,928
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    Well I have been watching Crowfall and Panethon.

    I am not sure what is that Others have Put Out that CoE is not already doing.
    • World Map Videos - Check
    • Character Models & Creation - Check. 
    • Combat - Check
    • Kingdom Management Videos - Check
    • Bunch of Art - Check
    • Journal Updates - Check
    In fact, CoE, has put out a ton of stuff showing they are constantly working on this project, constantly moving forward, and making sure the public sees their progress.

    I really ca't think of what more they could put out, if it;s simply an issue of their progress not being fast enough for you.. well.. there is nothing I can in that regard other then.. too bad.
    Can't speak to Pantheon as I really haven't followed it much since the failed Kickstarter.  Crowfall though has (for a long time)allowed players into the game to test, see the progress, and make suggestions/changes, see how the engine and clients handle numbers of players and effects.  That's one reason they have changed so much since it started.

    The MUD might serve the same function for CoE... we will see... but they need to get actual people into the game ASAP.
    GdemamiJamesGoblinAshyLarry24

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • UngoodUngood Member RarePosts: 1,080
    edited February 15
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    Well I have been watching Crowfall and Panethon.

    I am not sure what is that Others have Put Out that CoE is not already doing.
    • World Map Videos - Check
    • Character Models & Creation - Check. 
    • Combat - Check
    • Kingdom Management Videos - Check
    • Bunch of Art - Check
    • Journal Updates - Check
    In fact, CoE, has put out a ton of stuff showing they are constantly working on this project, constantly moving forward, and making sure the public sees their progress.

    I really ca't think of what more they could put out, if it;s simply an issue of their progress not being fast enough for you.. well.. there is nothing I can in that regard other then.. too bad.
    Can't speak to Pantheon as I really haven't followed it much since the failed Kickstarter.  Crowfall though has (for a long time)allowed players into the game to test, see the progress, and make suggestions/changes, see how the engine and clients handle numbers of players and effects.  That's one reason they have changed so much since it started.

    The MUD might serve the same function for CoE... we will see... but they need to get actual people into the game ASAP.
    That just means Crowfall is further along, not that SBS is not working their ass off or taking action. 

    IMHO: Wasting time with public dog and pony shows like Pre-alpha when on a tight budget like they are, is simply not worth it, and would show poor project management. They need a real backer at this point, so they need to focus on getting that before they waste their limited resources trying to put on a parade that won't generate revenue.

    Now, personally I feel they are better off having their team focus on just building the game itself, they will have ample time to hype train the public and allow them to chime in on their "feels" during Beta and Early Access launch, (That is what Beta is for after all) so the goal should be get to that point.
    Post edited by Ungood on
    cjmarsh
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
  • AshyLarry24AshyLarry24 Member UncommonPosts: 208
    @Kyleran

    He IS taking action.... And you are quoting Nicholas Sparks lol.  WTF?

    ANd I got nothing against Ashes, but it's nothing more than an Americanized version of BDO.  They don't have anything close to the uphill battle CoE has.

    ANd if you want to talk about BS reason to start a Kickstarter.  At least Jeromy actually needed to start one in order to get his game made.  Ashes is funded by a multi millionnaire and has over 60 employees, and STILL went to kickstarter.

    I'll probably end up buying it, or at least checking it out if they have a free weekend or something.  But still to expect CoE to be on their level of content already is a bit silly IMO.  I agree they need to get more to show this year, but come on it's not exactly a fair comparison.
    I haven't bought Ashes.  And it's not about who has more challenges to their design or finances.  As a prospective customer I only care that they do what they say they will do, when they say they will.  

    Again though... when you say it's "silly" to expect CoE to be at the same level of development at this point...  come on man... Jeromy is the one that said the game would be fully launched by now and also defended that timeline when challenged.  So yeah, I think it's fair to compare.

    But let's not go too far down that rabbit hole as it's not an Ashes thread.  What I THINK everyone can agree (dreamer or realist) is that they need to start demonstrating tangible progress this year. No matter what Ashes, CU or CF do.


    For sure, like I've said this is a make or break year.  They need to hammer down some hardcore mechanics, and systems, and start showing them off.  Hopefully they're pushing hard on crafting/combat so they can give actually gameplay footage that will garner attention.  And in the recent Q&A they claimed to have hardcore mechanics for us in the next 2 or 3 months.

    We should be seeing real progress this year, that's much more tangible.
    Kyleran
  • AshyLarry24AshyLarry24 Member UncommonPosts: 208
    edited February 15
    cjmarsh said:
    SBS needs to focus on stress testing and scaling their back end. When I hear they're working on the character creator and crafting mechanics, I just hope that the engineers on them aren't proficient in networking.
    They aren't stress testing till next year.
    https://chroniclesofelyria.gamepedia.com/Development_Timeline
    Post edited by AshyLarry24 on
    Ungood
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 29,368
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    Well I have been watching Crowfall and Panethon.

    I am not sure what is that Others have Put Out that CoE is not already doing.
    • World Map Videos - Check
    • Character Models & Creation - Check. 
    • Combat - Check
    • Kingdom Management Videos - Check
    • Bunch of Art - Check
    • Journal Updates - Check
    In fact, CoE, has put out a ton of stuff showing they are constantly working on this project, constantly moving forward, and making sure the public sees their progress.

    I really ca't think of what more they could put out, if it;s simply an issue of their progress not being fast enough for you.. well.. there is nothing I can in that regard other then.. too bad.
    Don't let the smoke and mirrors of information overload on how "busy " everyone is or has been fool you. (Blinded by the Light" is my new term for it)

    CU and SC use this to great effect and yet neither can really show much of anything that is rock solid and near ready for release, nor are they willing to project when they will be.

    It doesn't matter what work you have completed, other than to be sure it is of good quality.

    What work is left, when will it be completed and do they have the resources they need to finish are the more relevant points, at least for me.  

    YMMV.
    cjmarshJamesGoblinGdemami

    Ten types of internet trolls - Which one are you?

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon





  • WellspringWellspring Member RarePosts: 908
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    Well I have been watching Crowfall and Panethon.

    I am not sure what is that Others have Put Out that CoE is not already doing.
    • World Map Videos - Check
    • Character Models & Creation - Check. 
    • Combat - Check
    • Kingdom Management Videos - Check
    • Bunch of Art - Check
    • Journal Updates - Check
    In fact, CoE, has put out a ton of stuff showing they are constantly working on this project, constantly moving forward, and making sure the public sees their progress.

    I really ca't think of what more they could put out, if it;s simply an issue of their progress not being fast enough for you.. well.. there is nothing I can in that regard other then.. too bad.
    When they said multiple times (when asking for money) that the game would be done by now, their lack of progress is 100% my issue.

    Pantheon never mislead their fans by declaring the game would be done by a certain date due to the magic of SpacialOS, like Caspien did. Pantheon's stance was always, "it will be done when it's done".

    Crowfall lets you get a refund for your pledge packages through a resell partnership. In fact, my Crowfall pledge is worth $100 more than I paid for it, last I checked.

    I don't know what you've been watching, but CoE is not even in the same league as those two other games.
    JamesGoblinGdemamiYashaX
    --------------------------------------------
  • AshyLarry24AshyLarry24 Member UncommonPosts: 208
    edited February 15
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    Well I have been watching Crowfall and Panethon.

    I am not sure what is that Others have Put Out that CoE is not already doing.
    • World Map Videos - Check
    • Character Models & Creation - Check. 
    • Combat - Check
    • Kingdom Management Videos - Check
    • Bunch of Art - Check
    • Journal Updates - Check
    In fact, CoE, has put out a ton of stuff showing they are constantly working on this project, constantly moving forward, and making sure the public sees their progress.

    I really ca't think of what more they could put out, if it;s simply an issue of their progress not being fast enough for you.. well.. there is nothing I can in that regard other then.. too bad.
    When they said multiple times (when asking for money) that the game would be done by now, their lack of progress is 100% my issue.

    Pantheon never mislead their fans by declaring the game would be done by a certain date due to the magic of SpacialOS, like Caspien did. Pantheon's stance was always, "it will be done when it's done".

    Crowfall lets you get a refund for your pledge packages through a resell partnership. In fact, my Crowfall pledge is worth $100 more than I paid for it, last I checked.

    I don't know what you've been watching, but CoE is not even in the same league as those two other games.
    Pretty sure Crowfall started a no refund policy like 2 years ago.  Crowfall's kickstarter release date was December 2016.  They'll probably release a little less tahn 2 years late.

    And Pantheon's original kickstarter gave a date of January 2017. It is now 13 months after their original date.  They have yet to release even an estimated developer timeline after that.  Have they even released an Alpha yet?  I don't think most people expect that game till 2019-2020.  So really, like the worst possible example you can give lol.

    Edit: Pantheon hasn't hit Alpha yet, and no date so far.
    Post edited by AshyLarry24 on
    mystichazeDleatherus
  • cjmarshcjmarsh Member UncommonPosts: 299
    cjmarsh said:
    SBS needs to focus on stress testing and scaling their back end. When I hear they're working on the character creator and crafting mechanics, I just hope that the engineers on them aren't proficient in networking.
    They aren't stress testing till next year.
    https://chroniclesofelyria.gamepedia.com/Development_Timeline
    Stress Testing in that chart refers to getting the final product under load with a large number of testers. What I meant was getting the back end alone tested with a large number of testers. In other words, the pretty stuff that goes into character development and crafting and construction can all be left out for some basic placeholder assets that are used to connect a ton of people over their servers. This has already been done in CU, and they used very basic models to test it out, but in CoE there is so much emphasis on the client stuff that I worry they won't ever finish the server-side stuff at all, and never deliver on their promises.

    Having to appease the crowd that funded them is going to end up costing them an end product if they don't focus on the nuts and bolts and skip a few dev journals about the shiny stuff.
    AshyLarry24
  • AshyLarry24AshyLarry24 Member UncommonPosts: 208
    I disagree that they should only be focusing on that stuff.  One of the biggest problems CoE is facing right now is lack of content to get new backers. An updated combat demo, or other shiny's will inevitably bring more money.
    cjmarsh
  • WellspringWellspring Member RarePosts: 908
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    Well I have been watching Crowfall and Panethon.

    I am not sure what is that Others have Put Out that CoE is not already doing.
    • World Map Videos - Check
    • Character Models & Creation - Check. 
    • Combat - Check
    • Kingdom Management Videos - Check
    • Bunch of Art - Check
    • Journal Updates - Check
    In fact, CoE, has put out a ton of stuff showing they are constantly working on this project, constantly moving forward, and making sure the public sees their progress.

    I really ca't think of what more they could put out, if it;s simply an issue of their progress not being fast enough for you.. well.. there is nothing I can in that regard other then.. too bad.
    When they said multiple times (when asking for money) that the game would be done by now, their lack of progress is 100% my issue.

    Pantheon never mislead their fans by declaring the game would be done by a certain date due to the magic of SpacialOS, like Caspien did. Pantheon's stance was always, "it will be done when it's done".

    Crowfall lets you get a refund for your pledge packages through a resell partnership. In fact, my Crowfall pledge is worth $100 more than I paid for it, last I checked.

    I don't know what you've been watching, but CoE is not even in the same league as those two other games.
    Pretty sure Crowfall started a no refund policy like 2 years ago.  Crowfall's kickstarter release date was December 2016.  They'll probably release a little less tahn 2 years late.

    And Pantheon's original kickstarter gave a date of January 2017. It is now 13 months after their original date.  They have yet to release even an estimated developer timeline after that.  Have they even released an Alpha yet?  I don't think most people expect that game till 2019-2020.  So really, like the worst possible example you can give lol.

    Edit: Pantheon hasn't hit Alpha yet, and no date so far.


    1) https://crowfall.com/en/faq/your-account/trusted-traders/ <--- basically a refund policy (you can get your money back if you want it)



    2) Pantheon's KS failed, so to hold them to that original date when they didn't get the funding and had to start over with a new team (twice) is ludicrous. KS failed, no money changed hands, no agreement.

    Anyone who pledged on Pantheon's website following the failed KS, knew full-well the risk and that there was not a scheduled launch date.


    Game studios can either hold up their end of the agreement or they should offer refunds to players who want them. That's what any honorable company would do.

    PixelMage studios did full refunds when Hero's Song failed. Epic Games I think is doing the same thing for Paragon.

    My problem with CoE is they're trying to have it both ways. They get to go completely back on their promises during the KS and refuse to give refunds on a PRE-ORDER.

    GdemamiYashaX
    --------------------------------------------
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,928
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    Well I have been watching Crowfall and Panethon.

    I am not sure what is that Others have Put Out that CoE is not already doing.
    • World Map Videos - Check
    • Character Models & Creation - Check. 
    • Combat - Check
    • Kingdom Management Videos - Check
    • Bunch of Art - Check
    • Journal Updates - Check
    In fact, CoE, has put out a ton of stuff showing they are constantly working on this project, constantly moving forward, and making sure the public sees their progress.

    I really ca't think of what more they could put out, if it;s simply an issue of their progress not being fast enough for you.. well.. there is nothing I can in that regard other then.. too bad.
    When they said multiple times (when asking for money) that the game would be done by now, their lack of progress is 100% my issue.

    Pantheon never mislead their fans by declaring the game would be done by a certain date due to the magic of SpacialOS, like Caspien did. Pantheon's stance was always, "it will be done when it's done".

    Crowfall lets you get a refund for your pledge packages through a resell partnership. In fact, my Crowfall pledge is worth $100 more than I paid for it, last I checked.

    I don't know what you've been watching, but CoE is not even in the same league as those two other games.
    Pretty sure Crowfall started a no refund policy like 2 years ago.  Crowfall's kickstarter release date was December 2016.  They'll probably release a little less tahn 2 years late.

    And Pantheon's original kickstarter gave a date of January 2017. It is now 13 months after their original date.  They have yet to release even an estimated developer timeline after that.  Have they even released an Alpha yet?  I don't think most people expect that game till 2019-2020.  So really, like the worst possible example you can give lol.

    Edit: Pantheon hasn't hit Alpha yet, and no date so far.


    1) https://crowfall.com/en/faq/your-account/trusted-traders/ <--- basically a refund policy (you can get your money back if you want it)



    2) Pantheon's KS failed, so to hold them to that original date when they didn't get the funding and had to start over with a new team (twice) is ludicrous. KS failed, no money changed hands, no agreement.

    Anyone who pledged on Pantheon's website following the failed KS, knew full-well the risk and that there was not a scheduled launch date.


    Game studios can either hold up their end of the agreement or they should offer refunds to players who want them. That's what any honorable company would do.

    PixelMage studios did full refunds when Hero's Song failed. Epic Games I think is doing the same thing for Paragon.

    My problem with CoE is they're trying to have it both ways. They get to go completely back on their promises during the KS and refuse to give refunds on a PRE-ORDER.

    I agree that refunds should be offered by all companies if they substantially change their product or the delivery date. 

    I am kind of OK with having a no refund policy as long as its enforced both ways. I agree to pay you X and you will deliver Y by Z date.  When you change what Y is and substantially change the date (Z) I don't feel that you have held up your end of the deal so my end should be void as well.

    CU has largely gotten a pass on their delays because you can always just ask MJ for your money back and he writes you a check.  With beta that is going to change (at least for new people) so he better hit his dates and deliver on his promises.

    The problem with CoE is that if they offered such now, I think it would put them out of business.
    GdemamiYashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • cjmarshcjmarsh Member UncommonPosts: 299
    I disagree that they should only be focusing on that stuff.  One of the biggest problems CoE is facing right now is lack of content to get new backers. An updated combat demo, or other shiny's will inevitably bring more money.
    Personally I think they need to focus on big investors rather than the backers they already have. They need a large influx of money and that isn't going to come from crowdfunding. While the fans might want to see a combat demo, the venture capitalist investors are more likely to be interested in tech demos which help prove that the scope of the overall vision is possible.
    AshyLarry24
  • AshyLarry24AshyLarry24 Member UncommonPosts: 208
    edited February 16
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    Well I have been watching Crowfall and Panethon.

    I am not sure what is that Others have Put Out that CoE is not already doing.
    • World Map Videos - Check
    • Character Models & Creation - Check. 
    • Combat - Check
    • Kingdom Management Videos - Check
    • Bunch of Art - Check
    • Journal Updates - Check
    In fact, CoE, has put out a ton of stuff showing they are constantly working on this project, constantly moving forward, and making sure the public sees their progress.

    I really ca't think of what more they could put out, if it;s simply an issue of their progress not being fast enough for you.. well.. there is nothing I can in that regard other then.. too bad.
    When they said multiple times (when asking for money) that the game would be done by now, their lack of progress is 100% my issue.

    Pantheon never mislead their fans by declaring the game would be done by a certain date due to the magic of SpacialOS, like Caspien did. Pantheon's stance was always, "it will be done when it's done".

    Crowfall lets you get a refund for your pledge packages through a resell partnership. In fact, my Crowfall pledge is worth $100 more than I paid for it, last I checked.

    I don't know what you've been watching, but CoE is not even in the same league as those two other games.
    Pretty sure Crowfall started a no refund policy like 2 years ago.  Crowfall's kickstarter release date was December 2016.  They'll probably release a little less tahn 2 years late.

    And Pantheon's original kickstarter gave a date of January 2017. It is now 13 months after their original date.  They have yet to release even an estimated developer timeline after that.  Have they even released an Alpha yet?  I don't think most people expect that game till 2019-2020.  So really, like the worst possible example you can give lol.

    Edit: Pantheon hasn't hit Alpha yet, and no date so far.


    1) https://crowfall.com/en/faq/your-account/trusted-traders/ <--- basically a refund policy (you can get your money back if you want it)



    2) Pantheon's KS failed, so to hold them to that original date when they didn't get the funding and had to start over with a new team (twice) is ludicrous. KS failed, no money changed hands, no agreement.

    Anyone who pledged on Pantheon's website following the failed KS, knew full-well the risk and that there was not a scheduled launch date.


    Game studios can either hold up their end of the agreement or they should offer refunds to players who want them. That's what any honorable company would do.

    PixelMage studios did full refunds when Hero's Song failed. Epic Games I think is doing the same thing for Paragon.

    My problem with CoE is they're trying to have it both ways. They get to go completely back on their promises during the KS and refuse to give refunds on a PRE-ORDER.

    1.  There are multiple 3rd party sites that you can sell your package on.  If you really want your money back, you could probably sell your package for a profit right now.  Especially if you are a count or a duke.

    2.  I'm sorry I don't feel bad for anyone who buys something with a no refund policy and expects a refund lol.  It's an "estimated release date".  To hold a company to anything that says "estimated" is ridiculous IMO. If you want to sell your package there are plenty of ways to do it.  



    Post edited by AshyLarry24 on
    Kyleranmystichaze
  • AshyLarry24AshyLarry24 Member UncommonPosts: 208
    cjmarsh said:
    I disagree that they should only be focusing on that stuff.  One of the biggest problems CoE is facing right now is lack of content to get new backers. An updated combat demo, or other shiny's will inevitably bring more money.
    Personally I think they need to focus on big investors rather than the backers they already have. They need a large influx of money and that isn't going to come from crowdfunding. While the fans might want to see a combat demo, the venture capitalist investors are more likely to be interested in tech demos which help prove that the scope of the overall vision is possible.
    If they can get an investor that would be awesome.  I think they said they were gonna focus on that this summer.  But in the meantime, a combat demo, could bring new players in, and buy them some time before that.  And it's something they would need anyways.  And I'm sure a bunch of people are working on that back end, but some people are just plain and simple not hired for that.  That's not their expertise.  Snipehunter is suppose to be the lead game designer, and that's why he is working on designing the crafting and combat.

    We'll see though.  I'm not in panic mode yet.  They still got some time.
  • WellspringWellspring Member RarePosts: 908
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Ungood said:
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:


    This particular game obviously did NOT have the proper funds,so he went on a whim,that is no way at all to build a serious game.We were lead to believe through deceptive wording that they could build the game and would be paid for via costs of dying.I questioned it then and soon realized just BS.

    So then i just have to wonder,why can i see the obvious and yet so many blind people out there,are they just incredibly naive,dumb what is it?Yeah sometimes you need some long time learned knowledge to decipher BS but often it stares us right in the face.


    I personally wouldn't call it a -whim- when Caspain has also invested $500,000 of his own money into the project. I have a lot more respect for someone who is willing to take such a huge risk to chase their dream. Then someone who sits back in his chair, hiding behind a computer screen and passes judgment on 16000+ people he doesn't know by calling them blind, naive and dumb. 

    How does the old saying go? "Those who pass judgment, often haven't accomplished anything themgselves"
    Old sayings about judgement? Fun. How about this one?  

    "You're going to come across people in your life who will say all the right words at all the right times. But in the end, it's always their actions you should judge them by. It's actions, not words, that matter.""

    Time for some action me thinks....
    Caspian put house and his job into this.. that shows a lot of investment on his part, he has more to lose then anyone involved, so I am sure he is not sitting around with his thumb up his ass wasting time and goofing off.

    With that said.. what kind of action do you think he needs to provide to placate your urges that he is in fact taking action?
    Show something cool that demonstrates discernible progress. See Ashes if you want to know how it should be done, they're walking viewers through new dungeons and its been less than a year since the KSer closed. 

    Crowfall, CU, SC and Pantheon all had something to show by the 2 year mark, and I believe were letting early backers in on pre alpha builds.
    Well I have been watching Crowfall and Panethon.

    I am not sure what is that Others have Put Out that CoE is not already doing.
    • World Map Videos - Check
    • Character Models & Creation - Check. 
    • Combat - Check
    • Kingdom Management Videos - Check
    • Bunch of Art - Check
    • Journal Updates - Check
    In fact, CoE, has put out a ton of stuff showing they are constantly working on this project, constantly moving forward, and making sure the public sees their progress.

    I really ca't think of what more they could put out, if it;s simply an issue of their progress not being fast enough for you.. well.. there is nothing I can in that regard other then.. too bad.
    When they said multiple times (when asking for money) that the game would be done by now, their lack of progress is 100% my issue.

    Pantheon never mislead their fans by declaring the game would be done by a certain date due to the magic of SpacialOS, like Caspien did. Pantheon's stance was always, "it will be done when it's done".

    Crowfall lets you get a refund for your pledge packages through a resell partnership. In fact, my Crowfall pledge is worth $100 more than I paid for it, last I checked.

    I don't know what you've been watching, but CoE is not even in the same league as those two other games.
    Pretty sure Crowfall started a no refund policy like 2 years ago.  Crowfall's kickstarter release date was December 2016.  They'll probably release a little less tahn 2 years late.

    And Pantheon's original kickstarter gave a date of January 2017. It is now 13 months after their original date.  They have yet to release even an estimated developer timeline after that.  Have they even released an Alpha yet?  I don't think most people expect that game till 2019-2020.  So really, like the worst possible example you can give lol.

    Edit: Pantheon hasn't hit Alpha yet, and no date so far.


    1) https://crowfall.com/en/faq/your-account/trusted-traders/ <--- basically a refund policy (you can get your money back if you want it)



    2) Pantheon's KS failed, so to hold them to that original date when they didn't get the funding and had to start over with a new team (twice) is ludicrous. KS failed, no money changed hands, no agreement.

    Anyone who pledged on Pantheon's website following the failed KS, knew full-well the risk and that there was not a scheduled launch date.


    Game studios can either hold up their end of the agreement or they should offer refunds to players who want them. That's what any honorable company would do.

    PixelMage studios did full refunds when Hero's Song failed. Epic Games I think is doing the same thing for Paragon.

    My problem with CoE is they're trying to have it both ways. They get to go completely back on their promises during the KS and refuse to give refunds on a PRE-ORDER.

    1.  There are multiple 3rd party sites that you can sell your package on.  If you really want your money back, you could probably sell your package for a profit right now.  Especially if you are a count or a duke.

    2.  I'm sorry I don't feel bad for anyone who buys something with a no refund policy and expects a refund lol.  It's an "estimated release date".  To hold a company to anything that says "estimated" is ridiculous IMO. If you want to sell your package there are plenty of ways to do it.  



    Im not asking you to feel bad. My main point was in response to Ungood's question. He asked what Crowfall and Pantheon put out that CoE didn't?

    And I can tell you it wasn't a bunch of arrogant statements by the CEO, that he couldn't back up. 
    YashaX
    --------------------------------------------
  • UngoodUngood Member RarePosts: 1,080
    And Pantheon's original kickstarter gave a date of January 2017. It is now 13 months after their original date.  They have yet to release even an estimated developer timeline after that.  Have they even released an Alpha yet?  I don't think most people expect that game till 2019-2020.  So really, like the worst possible example you can give lol.

    Edit: Pantheon hasn't hit Alpha yet, and no date so far.
    Before we get into Pantheon, keep in mind their Kickstarter failed.. so anything they said in it, is void, since they didn't get the money.
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
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