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Every Time Star Citizen Gets a New Update Everyone Forgets What an Alpha is

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  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    >>>> Technically, considering the large amount of people on these forums who defined "release" as "Once you are charging people money for items in-game", >>>>

    Funny way to say "my opinion is shared by most because I say so". Which puts all the other things you say in that post into context ;-) 


    Have fun
    Orinori
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    I'm one of those people.  If a game has an optional subscription and doing regular item sales, that game has launched.  They can put an alpha or beta label on it which has come to mean any problems will be worked out one day so don't judge. 

    Reminds me of some games on Steam that are in eternal alpha with added DLC as well.  How can a game in alpha get DLC?  Answer: The term is being used as a marketing device only.
    RidelynnKyleran

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,506
    edited January 2018
    (...) If a game has an optional subscription and doing regular item sales, that game has launched.  (...)
    well, this game doesnt have a regular sub, so according to your definition (since you said AND), this obviously ain't released  :)

    prob solved, next!
    Shodanas

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,537
    MaxBacon said:
    I wish I had a job in which I could cancel my own deadlines.  I'd work it until I retired and turn it over to the next person to worry about.
    That's easy. Become one Indie game developer. :)
    What do you think robertsspaceindustries is ?! A fucking indie company. So thanks for pointing that rsi is ... just playing with you !

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    Thane said:
    (...) If a game has an optional subscription and doing regular item sales, that game has launched.  (...)
    well, this game doesnt have a regular sub, so according to your definition (since you said AND), this obviously ain't released  :)

    prob solved, next!
    This game offers a two tiered sub. so...

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited January 2018
    This game offers a two tiered sub. so...
    So your argument is that SC has launched right when its Kickstarter ended back in 2012 and the community sub was added? Before the first releases were ever made?

    Common now, back to reason please. O.o
  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    edited January 2018
    Thane said:
    (...) If a game has an optional subscription and doing regular item sales, that game has launched.  (...)
    well, this game doesnt have a regular sub, so according to your definition (since you said AND), this obviously ain't released  :)

    prob solved, next!
    This game offers a two tiered sub. so...
    but that's not a sub for the game.

    so no this 'game does not offer a sub'.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    MaxBacon said:
    This game offers a two tiered sub. so...
    So your argument is that SC has launched since always because of the community sub? Before the first releases were ever made?

    Common now, back to reason please. O.o
    Not an argument because I'm not trying to convince anyone here I'm just stating my opinion, feel free to disagree with it.  And yes SC has a set income model.  It's a thriving business model that supports hundreds of workers and a related 22 companies.  They want to get a pass because of alpha, then they will want to get a pass because of beta, then they will want to get a pass because it's a new official launch which could take years later to balance out.  

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    Orinori said:
    Thane said:
    (...) If a game has an optional subscription and doing regular item sales, that game has launched.  (...)
    well, this game doesnt have a regular sub, so according to your definition (since you said AND), this obviously ain't released  :)

    prob solved, next!
    This game offers a two tiered sub. so...
    but that's not a sub for the game.

    so no this 'game does not offer a sub'.
    It's not a traditional sub because CIG likes to use unique naming and descriptive terms in their game.  But a subscription is a monthly fee that offers certain benefits to a subscriber which I think applies here. imo.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited January 2018
    Not an argument because I'm not trying to convince anyone here I'm just stating my opinion, feel free to disagree with it.  And yes SC has a set income model.  It's a thriving business model that supports hundreds of workers and a related 22 companies.  They want to get a pass because of alpha, then they will want to get a pass because of beta, then they will want to get a pass because it's a new official launch which could take years later to balance out.  
    Whelp, fully disagreeing with you then.

    In fact, your point only applies in Steam Early Access where by the terms of service of Steam the unfinished game is the finished product you are buying, a term that could yet does not exist within SC.

    So I'll have to disagree with you that Star Citizen has launched in November 2012.


  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    Orinori said:
    Thane said:
    (...) If a game has an optional subscription and doing regular item sales, that game has launched.  (...)
    well, this game doesnt have a regular sub, so according to your definition (since you said AND), this obviously ain't released  :)

    prob solved, next!
    This game offers a two tiered sub. so...
    but that's not a sub for the game.

    so no this 'game does not offer a sub'.
    It's not a traditional sub because CIG likes to use unique naming and descriptive terms in their game.  But a subscription is a monthly fee that offers certain benefits to a subscriber which I think applies here. imo.
    If you only sub, you can not gain access to the game. so no, it is not a sub for the game.

    Star citizen could have had that sub and sold starter packs having regular item sales at kickstarter.
    So are you suggesting Star Citizen could have been called launched during the kickstarter campaign?
  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610
    And every time a blind fanboy mentions Alpha, everyone remembers how long this game has been in 'Alpha' with zero performance improvements. 
  • CoticCotic Member UncommonPosts: 268
    Saying that Star Citizen does not have subscription options is being rather too pedantic in my opinion. It would be like saying Voyager Direct is not a cash shop and is only about crowdfunding.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    MaxBacon said:
    Not an argument because I'm not trying to convince anyone here I'm just stating my opinion, feel free to disagree with it.  And yes SC has a set income model.  It's a thriving business model that supports hundreds of workers and a related 22 companies.  They want to get a pass because of alpha, then they will want to get a pass because of beta, then they will want to get a pass because it's a new official launch which could take years later to balance out.  
    Whelp, fully disagreeing with you then.

    In fact, your point only applies in Steam Early Access where by the terms of service of Steam the unfinished game is the finished product you are buying, a term that could yet does not exist within SC.

    So I'll have to disagree with you that Star Citizen has launched in November 2012.


    Show me the part that says people are buying a finished product that's in alpha please.  Here's there notice:

    Early Access Game

    Get instant access and start playing; get involved with this game as it develops.

    Note: This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development. Learn more

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    DAS1337 said:
    And every time a blind fanboy mentions Alpha, everyone remembers how long this game has been in 'Alpha' with zero performance improvements. 
    Then the fans like to point out the game has had plenty of optimization and performance improvements for the many various stages of its development, sometimes things were good sometimes bad, just like any other game in development. Then same fans like to point out how cool it was that we got to be included in any of this and prior parts of the development at all and how no other game has ever tried to do it this way, just a shame we have to listen to all the Veruca Salt types while we partake.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    Show me the part that says people are buying a finished product that's in alpha please.  Here's there notice:
    It's there pretty much.

    "game is not complete and may or MAY NOT change further." That is the disclaimer and why they take no responsibility, if the game releases on early access and gets development abandoned shortly after, you already got what you paid for, it is disclaimed.
  • bentrimbentrim Member UncommonPosts: 299
    Once AGAIN....DONT "release" an UNFINISHED product under the guise of PA, and charge for it! Want to let people play for free to get game "release ready" that's fine, but don't fund your games development under the pre alpha tent where apparently "stealing money is OK!
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    Thane said:
    (...) If a game has an optional subscription and doing regular item sales, that game has launched.  (...)
    well, this game doesnt have a regular sub, so according to your definition (since you said AND), this obviously ain't released  :)

    prob solved, next!
    This game offers a two tiered sub. so...
    You have absolutely no idea what the Voluntary SC Community Subscription is, do you ? 

    And that it has nothing to do with a monthly subscription to be able to play a game.

    'nuff said


    Have fun



  • DeathmachinePTDeathmachinePT Member UncommonPosts: 119

    Every Time Star Citizen Gets a New Update Every Brainless Fan Forgets There has been 5+ years and the game still hasn't have a half decent space combat system.


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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    MaxBacon said:
    Show me the part that says people are buying a finished product that's in alpha please.  Here's there notice:
    It's there pretty much.

    "game is not complete and may or MAY NOT change further." That is the disclaimer and why they take no responsibility, if the game releases on early access and gets development abandoned shortly after, you already got what you paid for, it is disclaimed.
    Sounds like those no refund policies.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • CoticCotic Member UncommonPosts: 268
    Erillion said:

    And that it has nothing to do with a monthly subscription to be able to play a game.

    To be fair, that was true until CIG started giving earlier access to the PTU if people were subscribers.

    Gah, what a mess :)
  • ScoliozScolioz Member UncommonPosts: 110
    edited January 2018
    these are the frauds who once said that building 1 ship model costs 1 million dollars
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    Sounds like those no refund policies.
    I think that is the intent. That disclaimer as you can see makes the fact of the game being updated and finished redundant to what you are buying. In that moment yes, one alpha, beta, even pre-alpha on early access is the launched product, the rest (as updates and/or leave early access) are extra to it.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    edited January 2018
    Erillion said:
    Thane said:
    (...) If a game has an optional subscription and doing regular item sales, that game has launched.  (...)
    well, this game doesnt have a regular sub, so according to your definition (since you said AND), this obviously ain't released  :)

    prob solved, next!
    This game offers a two tiered sub. so...
    You have absolutely no idea what the Voluntary SC Community Subscription is, do you ? 

    And that it has nothing to do with a monthly subscription to be able to play a game.

    'nuff said


    Have fun



    ESO has a sub thats not needed to play the game and just about any game that's B2P or F2P that has a sub add-on that offer additional benefits.  Why is this different?  LotRO's sub is voluntary also which also has little to do with playing the game.

    I'm not bashing the game I'm just comparing it to other games around.  A sub is a sub.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Erillion said:
    >>>> Technically, considering the large amount of people on these forums who defined "release" as "Once you are charging people money for items in-game", >>>>

    Funny way to say "my opinion is shared by most because I say so". Which puts all the other things you say in that post into context ;-) 


    Have fun
    There was an article here I think where Bill and the gang talked about how they would treat any game with persistent access, no wipes, and taking in money as a release product.

    Don't think we're at the point of SC having no wipes in the future.  It does meet the other two criteria, so if they announce no wipes, it's as good as gold per the aforementioned article/comments by Bill regarding assessing the quality of these products.

    image
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