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Star Citizen, I am disappointed.

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Comments

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,371
    DAS1337 said:
    Typical for most people, I mean blind followers of the game, to bash this article.  Completely missing the point that they made.  Not because there wasn't a point, but because, how dare someone make perfectly valid points that reflect negatively on your religion that is Star Citizen.

    I remember logging in, well over a year ago.  Barely anything to actually do in the game.  After a few days, I uninstalled due to frame rate issues.  Fast forward to now.  I've kept up with the game.  I've seen the additions that they have made, and what do I hear?  Still frame rate issues. 

    That is the point.  Despite the content added and promise shown for the future, the game is still not fun.  You can't enjoy, even what little that is there, because the netcode, or whatever it is that ails them is so poor, that people can't even play at 30fps. 

    For PC gamers, 60fps is a minimum for a lot of people.  I LOVE the idea of Star Citizen.  But I won't spend a dime and I won't play the game until I know that I can actually play it without having a seizure.  I'm not sure how new most people here are to alphas and betas, but I have quite a bit of experience with them.  And very, very rarely does a game have these performance issues for this long. 

    I think it's perfectly reasonable, at this point, after this much time, to be a bit disappointed with their performance issues.  And as the author stated.  We're not talking about handling thousands of clients.  We're talking about 50 or less.  This game will NEVER make it as long as it can't fix that problem. 

    If it does?  I'll be jumping in with the rest of you.
    What are your computer specs?

    What is the guys computer specs that wrote the article? I could very well be blind but I couldn't find them.

    I have a very high end system and my frame rates look and feel quite good. I don't know how or if you can actually see them in game and I won't run a secondary program to find out.

    I mentioned earlier that I'm heavy into flightsims and when they're loaded with candy they can bring any system to its knees.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    Orinori said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:
    >>>
    Man eats half baked cake then complains 'it don't taste good'.
    >>>

    THIS.


    Have fun

    Yeah, you should never have the expectation of anything but an unfinished cake when it comes from a baker noted for half baked cakes.   
    One should always have the expectation of something good when it comes from a baker noted for Hall of Fame cakes.

    http://www.darkstation.com/features/features/hall-of-fame-wing-commander-iv-the-price-of-freedom

    "...Chris Roberts, whose crowd-fundedStar Citizen project continues to make headlines, crafted a war torn universe worthy of Lucas and Roddenberry in which humans battle against the relentless Kilrathi Empire in a decades long conflict. ..."


    Have fun


    Comes from someone who had someone else above him calling the shots and reigning him in, something the person himself has admitted is a fault of his. Does that cheapen the achievement? No it doesn’t but it does point to a massive character flaw that should not be in someone with complete control. So allow me to edit your post slightly

    One should always have the expectation of something good when it comes from a baker noted for Hall of Fame cakes when he is told what to do and how to get there.
    Reigning him in was always for the benefit of the investors in order to try to achieve maximum profit in cheapest turn around possible. Reigning in was never and will NEVER be for the benefit of providing the fans of the game a more awesome experience. 



    No, it's to ensure the fans get an actual game experience in the first place.
    No, naive at best. Only reason this would occur is because investors do not want to further invest for fear of not getting investment return. 
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    laserit said:
    DAS1337 said:
    Typical for most people, I mean blind followers of the game, to bash this article.  Completely missing the point that they made.  Not because there wasn't a point, but because, how dare someone make perfectly valid points that reflect negatively on your religion that is Star Citizen.

    I remember logging in, well over a year ago.  Barely anything to actually do in the game.  After a few days, I uninstalled due to frame rate issues.  Fast forward to now.  I've kept up with the game.  I've seen the additions that they have made, and what do I hear?  Still frame rate issues. 

    That is the point.  Despite the content added and promise shown for the future, the game is still not fun.  You can't enjoy, even what little that is there, because the netcode, or whatever it is that ails them is so poor, that people can't even play at 30fps. 

    For PC gamers, 60fps is a minimum for a lot of people.  I LOVE the idea of Star Citizen.  But I won't spend a dime and I won't play the game until I know that I can actually play it without having a seizure.  I'm not sure how new most people here are to alphas and betas, but I have quite a bit of experience with them.  And very, very rarely does a game have these performance issues for this long. 

    I think it's perfectly reasonable, at this point, after this much time, to be a bit disappointed with their performance issues.  And as the author stated.  We're not talking about handling thousands of clients.  We're talking about 50 or less.  This game will NEVER make it as long as it can't fix that problem. 

    If it does?  I'll be jumping in with the rest of you.
    What are your computer specs?

    What is the guys computer specs that wrote the article? I could very well be blind but I couldn't find them.

    I have a very high end system and my frame rates look and feel quite good. I don't know how or if you can actually see them in game and I won't run a secondary program to find out.

    I mentioned earlier that I'm heavy into flightsims and when they're loaded with candy they can bring any system to its knees.
    That's honestly another red flag for the game, though.  As much as some fans would have you believe it, you won't get a mass upgrading of consumer systems just to play this game.

    No optimization would be a death knell of it's own for a game this ambitious.

    image
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,371
    laserit said:
    DAS1337 said:
    Typical for most people, I mean blind followers of the game, to bash this article.  Completely missing the point that they made.  Not because there wasn't a point, but because, how dare someone make perfectly valid points that reflect negatively on your religion that is Star Citizen.

    I remember logging in, well over a year ago.  Barely anything to actually do in the game.  After a few days, I uninstalled due to frame rate issues.  Fast forward to now.  I've kept up with the game.  I've seen the additions that they have made, and what do I hear?  Still frame rate issues. 

    That is the point.  Despite the content added and promise shown for the future, the game is still not fun.  You can't enjoy, even what little that is there, because the netcode, or whatever it is that ails them is so poor, that people can't even play at 30fps. 

    For PC gamers, 60fps is a minimum for a lot of people.  I LOVE the idea of Star Citizen.  But I won't spend a dime and I won't play the game until I know that I can actually play it without having a seizure.  I'm not sure how new most people here are to alphas and betas, but I have quite a bit of experience with them.  And very, very rarely does a game have these performance issues for this long. 

    I think it's perfectly reasonable, at this point, after this much time, to be a bit disappointed with their performance issues.  And as the author stated.  We're not talking about handling thousands of clients.  We're talking about 50 or less.  This game will NEVER make it as long as it can't fix that problem. 

    If it does?  I'll be jumping in with the rest of you.
    What are your computer specs?

    What is the guys computer specs that wrote the article? I could very well be blind but I couldn't find them.

    I have a very high end system and my frame rates look and feel quite good. I don't know how or if you can actually see them in game and I won't run a secondary program to find out.

    I mentioned earlier that I'm heavy into flightsims and when they're loaded with candy they can bring any system to its knees.
    That's honestly another red flag for the game, though.  As much as some fans would have you believe it, you won't get a mass upgrading of consumer systems just to play this game.

    No optimization would be a death knell of it's own for a game this ambitious.
    True, but there are also a hell of a lot of people with high end systems who are dying to have a game that actually makes their systems break a sweat.

    My systems are built around flight sims. My gaming rig gets the hand me downs ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    Current min specs are not even that high for a cutting edge game not launched yet -

    • Windows 7 (64bit) with Service Pack 1, Windows 8 (64bit), Windows 10 - Anniversary Update (64bit)
    • DirectX 11 Graphics Card with 2GB RAM (4GB strongly recommended)
    • Quad-Core CPU
    • 16GB+ RAM
    • SSD strongly recommended

    More optimization is planned, game is still in alpha. 
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Orinori said:
    Orinori said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:
    >>>
    Man eats half baked cake then complains 'it don't taste good'.
    >>>

    THIS.


    Have fun

    Yeah, you should never have the expectation of anything but an unfinished cake when it comes from a baker noted for half baked cakes.   
    One should always have the expectation of something good when it comes from a baker noted for Hall of Fame cakes.

    http://www.darkstation.com/features/features/hall-of-fame-wing-commander-iv-the-price-of-freedom

    "...Chris Roberts, whose crowd-fundedStar Citizen project continues to make headlines, crafted a war torn universe worthy of Lucas and Roddenberry in which humans battle against the relentless Kilrathi Empire in a decades long conflict. ..."


    Have fun


    Comes from someone who had someone else above him calling the shots and reigning him in, something the person himself has admitted is a fault of his. Does that cheapen the achievement? No it doesn’t but it does point to a massive character flaw that should not be in someone with complete control. So allow me to edit your post slightly

    One should always have the expectation of something good when it comes from a baker noted for Hall of Fame cakes when he is told what to do and how to get there.
    Reigning him in was always for the benefit of the investors in order to try to achieve maximum profit in cheapest turn around possible. Reigning in was never and will NEVER be for the benefit of providing the fans of the game a more awesome experience. 



    No, it's to ensure the fans get an actual game experience in the first place.
    No, naive at best. Only reason this would occur is because investors do not want to further invest for fear of not getting investment return. 
    No kidding?  None of that means it doesn't also benefit the consumer for them to be there to ensure it gets finished instead of burning through all the funding without a finished product to show.

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited January 2018
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    DAS1337 said:
    Typical for most people, I mean blind followers of the game, to bash this article.  Completely missing the point that they made.  Not because there wasn't a point, but because, how dare someone make perfectly valid points that reflect negatively on your religion that is Star Citizen.

    I remember logging in, well over a year ago.  Barely anything to actually do in the game.  After a few days, I uninstalled due to frame rate issues.  Fast forward to now.  I've kept up with the game.  I've seen the additions that they have made, and what do I hear?  Still frame rate issues. 

    That is the point.  Despite the content added and promise shown for the future, the game is still not fun.  You can't enjoy, even what little that is there, because the netcode, or whatever it is that ails them is so poor, that people can't even play at 30fps. 

    For PC gamers, 60fps is a minimum for a lot of people.  I LOVE the idea of Star Citizen.  But I won't spend a dime and I won't play the game until I know that I can actually play it without having a seizure.  I'm not sure how new most people here are to alphas and betas, but I have quite a bit of experience with them.  And very, very rarely does a game have these performance issues for this long. 

    I think it's perfectly reasonable, at this point, after this much time, to be a bit disappointed with their performance issues.  And as the author stated.  We're not talking about handling thousands of clients.  We're talking about 50 or less.  This game will NEVER make it as long as it can't fix that problem. 

    If it does?  I'll be jumping in with the rest of you.
    What are your computer specs?

    What is the guys computer specs that wrote the article? I could very well be blind but I couldn't find them.

    I have a very high end system and my frame rates look and feel quite good. I don't know how or if you can actually see them in game and I won't run a secondary program to find out.

    I mentioned earlier that I'm heavy into flightsims and when they're loaded with candy they can bring any system to its knees.
    That's honestly another red flag for the game, though.  As much as some fans would have you believe it, you won't get a mass upgrading of consumer systems just to play this game.

    No optimization would be a death knell of it's own for a game this ambitious.
    True, but there are also a hell of a lot of people with high end systems who are dying to have a game that actually makes their systems break a sweat.

    My systems are built around flight sims. My gaming rig gets the hand me downs ;)

    I get ya, but they have to either optimize it well enough to cater to at least mid-range rigs, or provide enough video options to allow the player to customize their experience to a level their rigs can handle.

    It's too early, really, to tell either way (I'm more worried about them getting all the planned features/mechanics in-game at this point, frankly), but it's still something to be watched.  Great games can be ruined by poor optimization.  WoW wouldn't have enjoyed the success it did if gamers new to PC gaming had to drop over a grand just on the rig to run it.
    MrMelGibson

    image
  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    edited January 2018
    No kidding?  None of that means it doesn't also benefit the consumer for them to be there to ensure it gets finished instead of burning through all the funding without a finished product to show.
    False logic, if the investors continued to invest for the benefit of player experience instead of concern for profit then product would still get finished. But now it is for the benefit of the consumer, not the investor.

    "Reigning in was never and will NEVER be for the benefit of providing the fans of the game a more awesome experience. "
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Orinori said:
    No kidding?  None of that means it doesn't also benefit the consumer for them to be there to ensure it gets finished instead of burning through all the funding without a finished product to show.
    False logic, if the investors continued to invest for the benefit of player experience instead of concern for profit then product would still get finished. But now it is for the benefit of the consumer, not the investor.

    "Reigning in was never and will NEVER be for the benefit of providing the fans of the game a more awesome experience. "
    Which might be true if this were a magic land where investors have infinite sums of money and don't give a rat's ass how or when they receive a return.

    Nobody is going to just keep pumping money into projects with no end in sight merely because the guy they're paying keeps saying "just pay me a little while longer, you'll see!", or they'll not long have the money to do so.
    MrMelGibson

    image
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 174
    edited January 2018
    Orinori said:
    Man eats half baked cake then complains 'it don't taste good'.

    "It feels petty to slam a game in alpha" then continues regardless and his reasoning? because Star Citizen is high profile so it's OK!

    It pretty much literally reads - I can't believe this alpha doesn't play like a finished game, I am so disappointed........

    just lol

    Ahh Mr Murph, always searching for those bad reviews or bad angles to post about SC. So reliable!

    The fact that this game is still in alpha and is still having these difficulties should be more than enough to worry everyone: gamers, investors, and even their own employees.  I mean, c'mon - the resources and time these guys have spent certainly make framerates a valid criticism.  That, along with the lack of content, which has been foreshadowed since the game's inception.  
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,371
    laserit said:
    laserit said:
    DAS1337 said:
    Typical for most people, I mean blind followers of the game, to bash this article.  Completely missing the point that they made.  Not because there wasn't a point, but because, how dare someone make perfectly valid points that reflect negatively on your religion that is Star Citizen.

    I remember logging in, well over a year ago.  Barely anything to actually do in the game.  After a few days, I uninstalled due to frame rate issues.  Fast forward to now.  I've kept up with the game.  I've seen the additions that they have made, and what do I hear?  Still frame rate issues. 

    That is the point.  Despite the content added and promise shown for the future, the game is still not fun.  You can't enjoy, even what little that is there, because the netcode, or whatever it is that ails them is so poor, that people can't even play at 30fps. 

    For PC gamers, 60fps is a minimum for a lot of people.  I LOVE the idea of Star Citizen.  But I won't spend a dime and I won't play the game until I know that I can actually play it without having a seizure.  I'm not sure how new most people here are to alphas and betas, but I have quite a bit of experience with them.  And very, very rarely does a game have these performance issues for this long. 

    I think it's perfectly reasonable, at this point, after this much time, to be a bit disappointed with their performance issues.  And as the author stated.  We're not talking about handling thousands of clients.  We're talking about 50 or less.  This game will NEVER make it as long as it can't fix that problem. 

    If it does?  I'll be jumping in with the rest of you.
    What are your computer specs?

    What is the guys computer specs that wrote the article? I could very well be blind but I couldn't find them.

    I have a very high end system and my frame rates look and feel quite good. I don't know how or if you can actually see them in game and I won't run a secondary program to find out.

    I mentioned earlier that I'm heavy into flightsims and when they're loaded with candy they can bring any system to its knees.
    That's honestly another red flag for the game, though.  As much as some fans would have you believe it, you won't get a mass upgrading of consumer systems just to play this game.

    No optimization would be a death knell of it's own for a game this ambitious.
    True, but there are also a hell of a lot of people with high end systems who are dying to have a game that actually makes their systems break a sweat.

    My systems are built around flight sims. My gaming rig gets the hand me downs ;)

    I get ya, but they have to either optimize it well enough to cater to at least mid-range rigs, or provide enough video options to allow the player to customize their experience to a level their rigs can handle.

    It's too early, really, to tell either way (I'm more worried about them getting all the planned features/mechanics in-game at this point, frankly), but it's still something to be watched.  Great games can be ruined by poor optimization.  WoW wouldn't have enjoyed the success it did if gamers new to PC gaming had to drop over a grand just on the rig to run it.
    Pretty much agreed.

    If memory serves me right it did cost about a grand to be able to run WoW at an acceptable frame rate back then.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    Orinori said:
    No kidding?  None of that means it doesn't also benefit the consumer for them to be there to ensure it gets finished instead of burning through all the funding without a finished product to show.
    False logic, if the investors continued to invest for the benefit of player experience instead of concern for profit then product would still get finished. But now it is for the benefit of the consumer, not the investor.

    "Reigning in was never and will NEVER be for the benefit of providing the fans of the game a more awesome experience. "
    Which might be true if this were a magic land where investors have infinite sums of money and don't give a rat's ass how or when they receive a return.

    Nobody is going to just keep pumping money into projects with no end in sight merely because the guy they're paying keeps saying "just pay me a little while longer, you'll see!", or they'll not long have the money to do so.
    This is why Star Citizen development works so well, backers can see the development and continue to invest money when they are happy with progress and being as profit is not primary concern for them there are no reigns needed to limit development potential for the sake of profit.

    "Reigning in was never and will NEVER be for the benefit of providing the fans of the game a more awesome experience. "
  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,512
    You.
    Can't.
    Please.
    Everyone.
    Erillion
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited January 2018
    penandpaper said:
    The fact that this game is still in alpha and is still having these difficulties should be more than enough to worry everyone: gamers, investors, and even their own employees.  I mean, c'mon - the resources and time these guys have spent certainly make framerates a valid criticism.  That, along with the lack of content, which has been foreshadowed since the game's inception.  
    Why?

    Like would you have imagined if you played GW2, or ESO, or so mid-way in their development, would have been any better? Less broken? More performing? This is a game that maintains one alpha since the very core of the development, what they optimize and bug-fix has been many times placeholders that they then later have to replace with final code, simply because the final code wasn't finished then.

    The netcode area of SC (the major aspect of client performance here) is certainly the next big thing for the project to tackle, bringing new tech to greatly benefit the servers and the streaming the clients do to be highly contained, all that takes is time.

    And they are attempting something in netcode ambitious by nature, remember that SC is not a normal MMO when it comes how much it weights the network, they are heavy on physics, simulation, complex ships mixed with one FPS enviornment with many other bits that require quite the undertaking to get working smoothly, it's difficulty 11 not 10.
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Kyleran said:
    Orinori said:
    Kyleran said:
    Orinori said:
    Trixxell said:
    Good article, all valid points.
    Sure they are! If your point is Star Citizen isn't complete yet. This is big news to everyone I am sure and well worth every ones time :D
    Well that is his point, SC isn't complete yet, nor does he feel they've made much progress towards being complete.

    When do they plan to launch then? Until you have at least an estimate, all criticism regarding the lack of progress or delay in delivery is valid.

    It does not matter what is accomplished to date, only how much work/time is left to reach a MVP state so players can experience the entire game as it is has been promised to be.


    Sure, 3.0 was totally insignificant progress and this report that the game plays like it isn't finished is amazing news and worrying about mvp date that they are obviously moving towards helps everyone tremendously! 






    BOOO HOOO BUT IT TAKING SOOOO LOOOONG WAHHHHHHHHH!
    So what do you think, two years until Release 1.0 MVP?  Three? 

    My guess is two years for SQ42, four years for the larger game.

    Make a note of it.



    I will make a note.  I do know one thing - they have to release something for fear of lawsuits.  And what they release will not be even close to what they promised.  But, it will still be defended, and the people that love the game now will love the part that is released.  And they will defend it as well.  

    It is basically an alternate vision of reality.  
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,371
    Orinori said:
    Man eats half baked cake then complains 'it don't taste good'.

    "It feels petty to slam a game in alpha" then continues regardless and his reasoning? because Star Citizen is high profile so it's OK!

    It pretty much literally reads - I can't believe this alpha doesn't play like a finished game, I am so disappointed........

    just lol

    Ahh Mr Murph, always searching for those bad reviews or bad angles to post about SC. So reliable!

    The fact that this game is still in alpha and is still having these difficulties should be more than enough to worry everyone: gamers, investors, and even their own employees.  I mean, c'mon - the resources and time these guys have spent certainly make framerates a valid criticism.  That, along with the lack of content, which has been foreshadowed since the game's inception.  
    As far as the article goes...

    Not posting his computer specs is just bad journalism.

    For those in the know, is there a command in game to show the framerate?
    MadFrenchie

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    laserit said:
    As far as the article goes...

    Not posting his computer specs is just bad journalism.

    For those in the know, is there a command in game to show the framerate?
    No, use external apps that share those details in-game, the most superficial one is FRAPs not fully sure if it may conflict, some of them do.
    laserit
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,371
    MaxBacon said:
    laserit said:
    As far as the article goes...

    Not posting his computer specs is just bad journalism.

    For those in the know, is there a command in game to show the framerate?
    No, use external apps that share those details in-game, the most superficial one is FRAPs not fully sure if it may conflict, some of them do.
    I won't use secondary apps

    They are known to cause stutters in flight sims.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    laserit said:
    MaxBacon said:
    laserit said:
    As far as the article goes...

    Not posting his computer specs is just bad journalism.

    For those in the know, is there a command in game to show the framerate?
    No, use external apps that share those details in-game, the most superficial one is FRAPs not fully sure if it may conflict, some of them do.
    I won't use secondary apps

    They are known to cause stutters in flight sims.
    Wait I think there is a console command:  r_DisplayInfo 3

    To open console is the ` key (left of 1, above Tab).


    laseritMrMelGibson
  • SpiraldeathSpiraldeath Member UncommonPosts: 27
    edited January 2018
    Erillion, MaxBacon, Orinori

    Take away these 3 and literally no one else defends SC at this point.


    I avoid MMORPG like the plague if I want credible unbiased SC debate or news.

    I have dropped more $$$ then I tell my missus in SC and if the game never eventuates i am not going to be happy but I knew the risk when I backed.

    The reason why 3.0 was so hyped too, is the first time every backer with Alpha access is getting access so there is bound to be anticipation.

    I can't even play 3.0, I get a black screen every-time or it crashes so I submit my crash report, we are Alpha testers and as such if we find a bug good because that what we are supposed to be finding. Do i get to fly around in my sexy ships no did I help contribute to testing and improvement yes.

    Often I think many of the haters hate because they don't have the funds to back and the little green monster comes out.

    Because if you haven't backed why so much hate what have you got to be angry for, it's like hating on a new fountain that is to be installed in a park in China that you have no plans to ever visit but just thought you had the need to tell the world you hate that fucking fountain with a passion.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,371
    Erillion, MaxBacon, Orinori

    Take away these 3 and literally no one else defends SC at this point.


    I avoid MMORPG like the plague if I want credible unbiased SC debate or news.

    I have dropped more $$$ then I tell my missus in SC and if the game never eventuates i am not going to be happy but I knew the risk when I backed.

    The reason why 3.0 was so hyped too, is the first time every backer with Alpha access is getting access so there is bound to be anticipation.

    I can't even play 3.0, I get a black screen every-time or it crashes so I submit my crash report, we are Alpha testers and as such if we find a bug good because that what we are supposed to be finding. Do i get to fly around in my sexy ships no did I help contribute to testing and improvement yes.

    Often I think many of the haters hate because they don't have the funds to back and the little green monster comes out.

    Because if you haven't backed why so much hate what have you got to be angry for, it's like hating on a new fountain that is to be installed in a park in China that you have no plans to ever visit but just thought you had the need to tell the world you hate that fucking fountain with a passion.
    I don't know if it will help you, but I had a problem with black screens and the game crashing every time it booted and switched to fullscreen. Turned out I had to manually set my video resolution.

     https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Star_Citizen

    Hope you can get it running.
    MrMelGibson

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Orinori said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Erillion said:
    >>>
    Man eats half baked cake then complains 'it don't taste good'.
    >>>

    THIS.


    Have fun

    Yeah, you should never have the expectation of anything but an unfinished cake when it comes from a baker noted for half baked cakes.   
    One should always have the expectation of something good when it comes from a baker noted for Hall of Fame cakes.

    http://www.darkstation.com/features/features/hall-of-fame-wing-commander-iv-the-price-of-freedom

    "...Chris Roberts, whose crowd-fundedStar Citizen project continues to make headlines, crafted a war torn universe worthy of Lucas and Roddenberry in which humans battle against the relentless Kilrathi Empire in a decades long conflict. ..."


    Have fun


    Comes from someone who had someone else above him calling the shots and reigning him in, something the person himself has admitted is a fault of his. Does that cheapen the achievement? No it doesn’t but it does point to a massive character flaw that should not be in someone with complete control. So allow me to edit your post slightly

    One should always have the expectation of something good when it comes from a baker noted for Hall of Fame cakes when he is told what to do and how to get there.
    Reigning him in was always for the benefit of the investors in order to try to achieve maximum profit in cheapest turn around possible. Reigning in was never and will NEVER be for the benefit of providing the fans of the game a more awesome experience. 



    No reigning him in was for the benefit of the gamers. Chris Roberts is a thinker and a dreamer which is a great combo when it comes to coming up with new ideas but he needs someone to curb the ambition, which like I said he has admitted to.

    When someone is standing over him telling him to stay on task then you get games like wing commander. When he is allowed to run his own game studio then you get ideas that make the studio produce nothing before they realize oh shit we are out of money because we wasted time trying to perfect everything instead of focusing on a few elements and making them shine Or if he’s allowed to direct his own movie then you get crap like the wing commander movie where he was again trying for too much with not enough time and money.

    Last time Microsoft bailed his studio out and saved the games he started by cutting out the dreams and paring things down to reality. This time it seems backers are taking the place of Microsoft but unfortunately they can’t remove him from power like MS did
  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    edited January 2018
    Kefo said:
    Orinori said:
    Reigning him in was always for the benefit of the investors in order to try to achieve maximum profit in cheapest turn around possible. Reigning in was never and will NEVER be for the benefit of providing the fans of the game a more awesome experience. 



    No reigning him in was for the benefit of the gamers. Chris Roberts is a thinker and a dreamer which is a great combo when it comes to coming up with new ideas but he needs someone to curb the ambition, which like I said he has admitted to.

    When someone is standing over him telling him to stay on task then you get games like wing commander. When he is allowed to run his own game studio then you get ideas that make the studio produce nothing before they realize oh shit we are out of money because we wasted time trying to perfect everything instead of focusing on a few elements and making them shine Or if he’s allowed to direct his own movie then you get crap like the wing commander movie where he was again trying for too much with not enough time and money.

    Last time Microsoft bailed his studio out and saved the games he started by cutting out the dreams and paring things down to reality. This time it seems backers are taking the place of Microsoft but unfortunately they can’t remove him from power like MS did
    This is only true when supported by investors who are looking to maximize profit and demanding timelines be kept regardless of impact to potential of the game and the user experience. Often the result of this due to how almost impossible it can be to project the workload accurately, the games original vision must be compromised and gamers are left with a half finished product with corners cut all over the place in order to satisfy investors who refuse to invest more and are only concerned with their return. This idea that gamers should be 'thankful' for getting some half finished potential in order to satisfy investor profit is pathetic. 

    With Star Citizen it is the backers who decide if the project continues, suggesting otherwise is ignoring reality. If backers are happy with development, then Star Citizen continues momentum to maximum potential. All you are really showing here is your own limited ability to envision and accept successful innovation and willfully supporting investor greed over end user experience.

    What is it you are really condemning Chris Roberts for here? An unwillingness to compromise on quality? Well now he has no need.

    p.s I actually loved the Wing Commander movie and have seen it multiple times. I am an actual Sci Fi fan :)



    Post edited by Orinori on
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Orinori said:
    Kefo said:
    Orinori said:
    Reigning him in was always for the benefit of the investors in order to try to achieve maximum profit in cheapest turn around possible. Reigning in was never and will NEVER be for the benefit of providing the fans of the game a more awesome experience. 



    No reigning him in was for the benefit of the gamers. Chris Roberts is a thinker and a dreamer which is a great combo when it comes to coming up with new ideas but he needs someone to curb the ambition, which like I said he has admitted to.

    When someone is standing over him telling him to stay on task then you get games like wing commander. When he is allowed to run his own game studio then you get ideas that make the studio produce nothing before they realize oh shit we are out of money because we wasted time trying to perfect everything instead of focusing on a few elements and making them shine Or if he’s allowed to direct his own movie then you get crap like the wing commander movie where he was again trying for too much with not enough time and money.

    Last time Microsoft bailed his studio out and saved the games he started by cutting out the dreams and paring things down to reality. This time it seems backers are taking the place of Microsoft but unfortunately they can’t remove him from power like MS did
    This is only true when supported by investors who are looking to maximize profit and demanding timelines be kept regardless of impact to potential of the game and the user experience. Often the result of this due to how almost impossible it can be to project the workload accurately, the games original vision must be compromised and gamers are left with a half finished product with corners cut all over the place in order to satisfy investors who refuse to invest more and are only concerned with their return. This idea that gamers should be 'thankful' for getting some half finished potential in order to satisfy investor profit is pathetic. 

    With Star Citizen it is the backers who decide if the project continues, suggesting otherwise is ignoring reality. If backers are happy with development, then Star Citizen continues momentum to maximum potential. All you are really showing here is your own limited ability to envision and accept successful innovation and willfully supporting investor greed over end user experience.

    What is it you are really condemning Chris Roberts for here? An unwillingness to compromise on quality? Well now he has no need.

    p.s I actually loved the Wing Commander movie and have seen it multiple times. I am an actual Sci Fi fan :)



    I’m not sure if you read what I write but I’ve told you before and his is rooted in facts but Chris Roberts isn’t the type you give free reign to. He will continue to dream instead of focusing on building the game first. This would be why Digital Anvil tanked and had to be bought out by Microsoft, they put CR as a “creative consultant” and then they spent multiple years and millions of dollars trying to fix the mess that he created. In this case, yes, gamers should be thankful for a half finished product because without those evil suits games like freelancer would never had seen the light of day. Maybe even wing commander wouldn’t have been made if the evil suits weren’t there to make sure CR didn’t go crazy.

    Ive never suggested otherwise that backers aren’t the ones supporting SC but at some point most of the backers are going to get tired of waiting and broken promises and missed deadlines and the money will slow to a trickle. If they haven’t released the mvp or better by then then the whales alone won’t be able to keep the project propped up.

    You know nothing about me and what I can envision. I just try not to let companies pull blinders over my eyes with hype. I’m not always successful but I do my best. The only greed being shown here is CIG’s and the constant asking for more money.

    Im condemning CR for being a piss poor boss and stepping on his managers toes instead of letting them do what he hired them to do and in the end wasting time and money.

    Thats great you’ve seen the movie multiple times and loved it still doesn’t change the fact it was a commercial flop and lost millions
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,235
    edited January 2018
    >>>
    Thats great you’ve seen the movie multiple times and loved it still doesn’t change the fact it was a commercial flop and lost millions
    >>>

    Incorrect.

    Did not make its money back in the USA, but did break even overall worldwide. The box office quotes you find on imdb etc. are USA only.


    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wing_Commander_(Film)

    "Wing Commander startete am 12. März 1999 in den Vereinigten Staaten und kam am 23. Dezember 1999 in die deutschen Kinos. Bei einem geschätzten Budget von 30 Millionen US-Dollar[5] spielte er in den USA nur 11.578.059 US-Dollar[6] ein und kann somit als kommerzieller Flop bezeichnet werden. Durch die weltweite Vermarktung der Filmrechte sowie die DVD-Veröffentlichung und dem Verkauf der Fernsehrechte und Merchandising-Produkte (u. a. Spielfiguren und Raumschiffe) hat der Film aber nach einiger Zeit doch noch die Gewinnschwelle erreicht. "

    "Wing Commander launched on March 12, 1999 in the United States and launched December 23, 1999 in the German cinemas. With an estimated budget of 30 million US dollars it generated  in the US only 11,578,059 US dollars [6] and can therefore be described as a commercial flop. Due to the worldwide marketing of the film rights as well as the DVD publication and the sale of the television rights and merchandising products (among other things play figures and spaceships) the film still reached the break even point after some time."



    Have fun




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