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When developers say the game is in BETA, but still have a working subscription / cash shop?

24

Comments

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,785
    Horusra said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Horusra said:
    If it states it is in a Beta state and you willingly pay the sub it sounds like the risk for downtimes and issues is on you for not being willing to wait.
    That kind of approach to business will surely bite any game studio in the derriere. Sure, anyone can do anything they want, but that's why we have consumer laws in America, to protect those of us too stupid to know better. So, I guess the only thing left to do is make everyone aware of how Bitbox does business and that way no one has to suffer like so many others already have.

    Word of mouth is consumers greatest weapon.

    if you are making individual laws to protect stupid people the world is in trouble.
    But that's the problem. Stupid people hurt themselves, but then sue everyone else.......and they win often enough so you can't ignore them. They don't go away.


    Can't fix stupid.
    MrMelGibson
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,614
    Horusra said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Horusra said:
    If it states it is in a Beta state and you willingly pay the sub it sounds like the risk for downtimes and issues is on you for not being willing to wait.
    That kind of approach to business will surely bite any game studio in the derriere. Sure, anyone can do anything they want, but that's why we have consumer laws in America, to protect those of us too stupid to know better. So, I guess the only thing left to do is make everyone aware of how Bitbox does business and that way no one has to suffer like so many others already have.

    Word of mouth is consumers greatest weapon.

    if you are making individual laws to protect stupid people the world is in trouble.
    Well, I guess we live in a nation of stupid, because everything you see now, mostly warning labels are due directly to companies being sued by said stupid people. Such as electronics all having a SHOCK / ELECTROCUTION warning label because common sense doesn't include everyone knowing the basic laws of electricity.

    However, I believe some laws are truly in place to protect consumers from things we refer to as scams. Most of the time, it's the too good to be true adage that people get lured in and before they know it, they are in over their head. There is still a car dealership where I live that has no problem taking advantage of people less knowledgeable about cars, such as charging a ridiculous interest rate or lying about the condition of the car being sold.

    So while there are definitely stupid people out there, it's the fact there are people willing to take advantage of them that is the problem, hence the consumer laws being put in place.
    MrMelGibson

  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,013
    @Billmurphy Time for a review on this released game?
    Slapshot1188
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,237
    Shaigh said:
    @Billmurphy Time for a review on this released game?
    It does seem to fit the standard set for Pathfinder Online

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    PLEASE READ:

    Question for you guys. 
    What about a game that was:
    1. in Early Access
    2. charged more than double standard market price while in early access
    3. was to be a free to play game at released
    4. had active lootboxes you had to pay for while it was in early access

    what should happen with such an example?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,785
    Developers can continue to misuse the beta term, but there is a back side to doing this.

    Some time in the undetermined future................

    News announcement!
    "Life is Feudal" has officially released!"


    Nilden
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,476
    Horusra said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Horusra said:
    If it states it is in a Beta state and you willingly pay the sub it sounds like the risk for downtimes and issues is on you for not being willing to wait.
    That kind of approach to business will surely bite any game studio in the derriere. Sure, anyone can do anything they want, but that's why we have consumer laws in America, to protect those of us too stupid to know better. So, I guess the only thing left to do is make everyone aware of how Bitbox does business and that way no one has to suffer like so many others already have.

    Word of mouth is consumers greatest weapon.

    if you are making individual laws to protect stupid people the world is in trouble.
    History shows that unscrupulous companies will exploit people and they will be able to exploit both the stupid and the intelligent.

    At the end of the day what matters is what they advertise / imply (key word) / claim / promise to deliver. If they are delivering that is that; if not that is when you need consumer protection laws. Which are better in some countries than in others.
    MrMelGibson
  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,252
    Horusra said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Horusra said:
    But that's the problem. Stupid people hurt themselves, but then sue everyone else.......and they win often enough so you can't ignore them. They don't go away.


    Can't fix stupid.
    Natural selection eventually catches up with them!
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,785
    k61977 said:
    Horusra said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    Horusra said:
    But that's the problem. Stupid people hurt themselves, but then sue everyone else.......and they win often enough so you can't ignore them. They don't go away.


    Can't fix stupid.
    Natural selection eventually catches up with them!
    Which would work if we didn't make laws that protect stupid.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,486
    SEANMCAD said:
    PLEASE READ:

    Question for you guys. 
    What about a game that was:
    1. in Early Access
    2. charged more than double standard market price while in early access
    3. was to be a free to play game at released
    4. had active lootboxes you had to pay for while it was in early access

    what should happen with such an example?
    You leave out so much information.

    Based on what you said "nothing".

    1, In early access

    Great, you then, as the player, have been notified that it is in early access and have been warned that you are playing an unfinished game and that your sole reason for playing is that you want to support the game/development. Nothing needed to be done.

    2, charged more than double standard market price while in early access

    What does that mean? Because I have never seen a game charging, say, 120 dollars and then bringing it down to 60. I HAVE seen games charge more than launch price as they are giving you extras that people paying at launch will not have access to. More in game currency, titles, in game items, access to the game throughout development, etc. So in the first example "that doesn't happen". In the second example "nothing needs to be done as you the player have been informed of what you are getting for your money and being a big boy you can make your own decisions on how to spend your money.

    3, was to be a free to play game at release.

    Most likely you are paying to support development and get those early access perks as described above. You know what you are paying for and must decide if those "items/perks" are worh the money. You would most likely compare those items/perks with the cash shop at launch and would probably find that purchasing those items perks (if they are even available) would be about the same if not more. Nothing needs to be done.

    4, Had active loot boxes you had to pay for while it was in early access

    Are those loot boxes going to be wiped at the drop of a dime or do they stick with your character until you use them in which case can the items be wiped at any time or do they stick with your character throughout your time in the game? If the former then that's an issue as you are paying money for items that can be wiped at any time and therefore you are possibly flushing your money. If those items stick with your character then nothing, you knew what you were paying for and you are getting what you paid for.



  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited January 2018
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    PLEASE READ:

    Question for you guys. 
    What about a game that was:
    1. in Early Access
    2. charged more than double standard market price while in early access
    3. was to be a free to play game at released
    4. had active lootboxes you had to pay for while it was in early access

    what should happen with such an example?
    You leave out so much information.

    Based on what you said "nothing".

    1, In early access

    Great, you then, as the player, have been notified that it is in early access and have been warned that you are playing an unfinished game and that your sole reason for playing is that you want to support the game/development. Nothing needed to be done.

    2, charged more than double standard market price while in early access

    What does that mean? Because I have never seen a game charging, say, 120 dollars and then bringing it down to 60. I HAVE seen games charge more than launch price as they are giving you extras that people paying at launch will not have access to. More in game currency, titles, in game items, access to the game throughout development, etc. So in the first example "that doesn't happen". In the second example "nothing needs to be done as you the player have been informed of what you are getting for your money and being a big boy you can make your own decisions on how to spend your money.

    3, was to be a free to play game at release.

    Most likely you are paying to support development and get those early access perks as described above. You know what you are paying for and must decide if those "items/perks" are worh the money. You would most likely compare those items/perks with the cash shop at launch and would probably find that purchasing those items perks (if they are even available) would be about the same if not more. Nothing needs to be done.

    4, Had active loot boxes you had to pay for while it was in early access

    Are those loot boxes going to be wiped at the drop of a dime or do they stick with your character until you use them in which case can the items be wiped at any time or do they stick with your character throughout your time in the game? If the former then that's an issue as you are paying money for items that can be wiped at any time and therefore you are possibly flushing your money. If those items stick with your character then nothing, you knew what you were paying for and you are getting what you paid for.
    compared to.....???

    having a subscription while in beta?

    it was very likely the most expensive F2P game in early access EVER in the history of Early Access.

    If these developers did anything remotely close to what they did it would be all over the map with red raged fury

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    All those buzzwords of Alpha, Beta, early access......mean nothing anymore.

    People need to stop paying companies for unfinished projects and wait till they have met what they committed to and shipped the product to market.

    Only ones to blame for the current state are those paying money up front thinking they are getting some kind of advantage over everyone else to just end up bitter that the companies didn't live up to their words.

    Way too many examples to ignore at this point.

    I know the solution is simple but sadly way too many people need their dopamine fix to feel superior to everyone else. Social engineering for the win.


    Slapshot1188GeezerGamerNilden
  • barasawabarasawa Member UncommonPosts: 598
    edited January 2018
    IF they're selling it, by definition, it's not beta. 
    That's not only from old school gaming & software asthetics, but also from software support and development protocols. Alpha and Beta are both types of pre-release testing stages. If they're openly selling the game, then it's released and no longer in beta.  

    Of course marketing really doesn't care about industry standards, or the truth most of the time, so you can't trust them.
    As to lawyers, few of them even understand the concepts involved, and since I don't think there's any real case law on the subject, they think it's whatever they get paid to think it is. 
    Now for devs dodging their responsibility and trying to cash in before they should, I have some definite opinions on that, but you should form your own, particularly so it will involves less clue-by-fours than my imagination comes up with. 

    No, I'm not a violent person and I feel violence is the last resort if not an outright failure. However that doesn't stop me imagining a large object pounding ethics, understanding, and other such things into the heads of people sorely lacking in them...

    I know "clue by four" was derived from "two by four", but I always imagine it as a cricket bat of some kind. If you haven't seen a cricket bat, google it. :smile:

    Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,237
    All those buzzwords of Alpha, Beta, early access......mean nothing anymore.

    People need to stop paying companies for unfinished projects and wait till they have met what they committed to and shipped the product to market.

    Only ones to blame for the current state are those paying money up front thinking they are getting some kind of advantage over everyone else to just end up bitter that the companies didn't live up to their words.

    Way too many examples to ignore at this point.

    I know the solution is simple but sadly way too many people need their dopamine fix to feel superior to everyone else. Social engineering for the win.


    Yup

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,486
    SEANMCAD said:

    compared to.....???

    having a subscription while in beta?

    it was very likely the most expensive F2P game in early access EVER in the history of Early Access.

    If these developers did anything remotely close to what they did it would be all over the map with red raged fury
    This is a perfect example of people not understanding what they are getting into. Life isn't that hard to figure out but people really do try their best to bork it up.

    That "subscription in beta" is probably couched as supporting the development of the game. I think Pantheon has several instances of this.

    It is not a subscription to play it is financially supporting beta, almost like a kickstarter but different.

    You don't want to support the game in development? GREAT! Most people wouldn't and I completely understand why, especially if that game isn't guaranteed to launch. So you don't do it. You don't give them a monthly tithe or whatever you/they want to call it. Problem solved.
    MrMelGibson



  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    I dont care what people call it, I just get offended by the double standard. If one developer does it and even more its fine, but if this team does it its an outrage!

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Rhoklaw said:
    Well, the current server instability and in-game issues for the past 4+ days has made the game mostly unplayable for some, somewhat unplayable for others and slightly unplayable for the rest. Any MMO I've ever played usually offered extensions to subscriptions and reparations for items / money lost due to said problems.

    I don't understand how any game that claims to be in BETA that has a working subscription and cash shop can claim it's still in BETA. I don't care if they don't wipe at the "official steam launch" next week ( which is an extremely stupid decision on their part ), but then you should be doing reparations for your servers being wonky for days at a time.
    Ok:  here is a little you might be able to understand that clears it up  if you are up to it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meeting_of_the_minds
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited January 2018
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    compared to.....???

    having a subscription while in beta?

    it was very likely the most expensive F2P game in early access EVER in the history of Early Access.

    If these developers did anything remotely close to what they did it would be all over the map with red raged fury
    This is a perfect example of people not understanding what they are getting into. Life isn't that hard to figure out but people really do try their best to bork it up.

    That "subscription in beta" is probably couched as supporting the development of the game. I think Pantheon has several instances of this.

    It is not a subscription to play it is financially supporting beta, almost like a kickstarter but different.

    You don't want to support the game in development? GREAT! Most people wouldn't and I completely understand why, especially if that game isn't guaranteed to launch. So you don't do it. You don't give them a monthly tithe or whatever you/they want to call it. Problem solved.
    I will say it again.

    If an indie developer did anything remotely close to something like Epic did for Fortnite absolute total hell would have been paid.

    are you in any way saying that statement would be false? are you saying that if an indie developer did what Epic did that they would not get any more heat for it then Epic did.

    seriously?

    the double standard I see from my end is absolutely blindly obvious on multiple topics

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,216
    edited January 2018
    As far as I know this site still holds to the rule that if they are selling from a cash shop the game is launched. So I assume a review has been done?

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,486
    edited January 2018
    SEANMCAD said:
    I dont care what people call it, I just get offended by the double standard. If one developer does it and even more its fine, but if this team does it its an outrage!
    Well, that's up to the individual isn't it? Also, you would have to show that the same individual is giving a pass for one game yet attacking  another.

    I strongly suspect what you are seeing is one set of people giving a pass for one game and a completely different set of people decrying another. That has nothing to do with "double standards" if in truth they aren't applying different standards to different games.

    Or better said, just because a group of people decry one game doesn't mean they are giving a pass for other games (unless you can show it of course).
    MrMelGibson



  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    PLEASE READ:

    Question for you guys. 
    What about a game that was:
    1. in Early Access
    2. charged more than double standard market price while in early access
    3. was to be a free to play game at released
    4. had active lootboxes you had to pay for while it was in early access

    what should happen with such an example?
    You leave out so much information.

    Based on what you said "nothing".

    1, In early access

    Great, you then, as the player, have been notified that it is in early access and have been warned that you are playing an unfinished game and that your sole reason for playing is that you want to support the game/development. Nothing needed to be done.

    2, charged more than double standard market price while in early access

    What does that mean? Because I have never seen a game charging, say, 120 dollars and then bringing it down to 60. I HAVE seen games charge more than launch price as they are giving you extras that people paying at launch will not have access to. More in game currency, titles, in game items, access to the game throughout development, etc. So in the first example "that doesn't happen". In the second example "nothing needs to be done as you the player have been informed of what you are getting for your money and being a big boy you can make your own decisions on how to spend your money.

    3, was to be a free to play game at release.

    Most likely you are paying to support development and get those early access perks as described above. You know what you are paying for and must decide if those "items/perks" are worh the money. You would most likely compare those items/perks with the cash shop at launch and would probably find that purchasing those items perks (if they are even available) would be about the same if not more. Nothing needs to be done.

    4, Had active loot boxes you had to pay for while it was in early access

    Are those loot boxes going to be wiped at the drop of a dime or do they stick with your character until you use them in which case can the items be wiped at any time or do they stick with your character throughout your time in the game? If the former then that's an issue as you are paying money for items that can be wiped at any time and therefore you are possibly flushing your money. If those items stick with your character then nothing, you knew what you were paying for and you are getting what you paid for.
    Dont feed him and he will go away.
    Slapshot1188MrMelGibson
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited January 2018
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    I dont care what people call it, I just get offended by the double standard. If one developer does it and even more its fine, but if this team does it its an outrage!
    Well, that's up to the individual isn't it? Also, you would have to show that the same individual is giving a pass for one game yet attacking  another.

    I strongly suspect what you are seeing is one set of people giving a pass for one game and a completely different set of people decrying another. That has nothing to do with "double standards" if in truth they aren't applying different standards to different games.

    Or better said, just because a group of people decry one game doesn't mean they are giving a pass for other games (unless you can show it of course).
    is there a difference between an individual having a double standard and that of the majority of the group having group think into a double standard?

    what I 'see' from my end would make your headpin. Its very clear, very obvious and it screams at the top of its lungs. There is a  HUGE double standard between the two 'types' of games

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,486
    edited January 2018
    SEANMCAD said:
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    compared to.....???

    having a subscription while in beta?

    it was very likely the most expensive F2P game in early access EVER in the history of Early Access.

    If these developers did anything remotely close to what they did it would be all over the map with red raged fury
    This is a perfect example of people not understanding what they are getting into. Life isn't that hard to figure out but people really do try their best to bork it up.

    That "subscription in beta" is probably couched as supporting the development of the game. I think Pantheon has several instances of this.

    It is not a subscription to play it is financially supporting beta, almost like a kickstarter but different.

    You don't want to support the game in development? GREAT! Most people wouldn't and I completely understand why, especially if that game isn't guaranteed to launch. So you don't do it. You don't give them a monthly tithe or whatever you/they want to call it. Problem solved.
    I will say it again.

    If an indie developer did anything remotely close to something like Epic did for Fortnite absolute total hell would have been paid.

    are you in any way saying that statement would be false? are you saying that if an indie developer did what Epic did that they would not get any more heat for it then Epic did.

    seriously?

    the double standard I see from my end is absolutely blindly obvious on multiple topics
    Sean, this is just another example of why talking with you is so hard. I have no idea how you are wired.

    If you had said "this is what Fortnight did and it was x, y and zed" I would then be able to fully look into it and make a better assessment of what you were talking about.
     But no you just throughout some examples and somehow we must mind read. You do this all the time.

    KyleranSlapshot1188MrMelGibson



  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited January 2018
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    compared to.....???

    having a subscription while in beta?

    it was very likely the most expensive F2P game in early access EVER in the history of Early Access.

    If these developers did anything remotely close to what they did it would be all over the map with red raged fury
    This is a perfect example of people not understanding what they are getting into. Life isn't that hard to figure out but people really do try their best to bork it up.

    That "subscription in beta" is probably couched as supporting the development of the game. I think Pantheon has several instances of this.

    It is not a subscription to play it is financially supporting beta, almost like a kickstarter but different.

    You don't want to support the game in development? GREAT! Most people wouldn't and I completely understand why, especially if that game isn't guaranteed to launch. So you don't do it. You don't give them a monthly tithe or whatever you/they want to call it. Problem solved.
    I will say it again.

    If an indie developer did anything remotely close to something like Epic did for Fortnite absolute total hell would have been paid.

    are you in any way saying that statement would be false? are you saying that if an indie developer did what Epic did that they would not get any more heat for it then Epic did.

    seriously?

    the double standard I see from my end is absolutely blindly obvious on multiple topics
    Sean, this is just another example of why talking with you is so hard. I have no idea how you are wired.

    If you had said "this is what Fortnight did and it was x, y and zed" I would then be able to fully look into it and make a better assessment of what you were talking about.
     But no you just throughout some examples and somehow we must mind read. You do this all the time.

    then just dont.

    I will say it a 3rd time.

    If an indie developer did even 1/2 of what Dice did in any misunderstood obfuscated way whatsoever that could even remotely be construed as possibly doing what I laid out, people would have gone absolutely batshit crazy mad.

    People put CR on fire for being a  month late, can you imagine what people would have done even in any obfucated kinda sorta maybe have it kinda look like 1/2 of what I laid out?....

    I mean for christ sake look at how much hell Ark got for having a DLC that had 'deserts' in them because 'deserts' where mentioned in the kickstarter. Compare that with charging the most expensive price ever for an early access game that is F2P?  are you joking me?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,486
    SEANMCAD said:
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    compared to.....???

    having a subscription while in beta?

    it was very likely the most expensive F2P game in early access EVER in the history of Early Access.

    If these developers did anything remotely close to what they did it would be all over the map with red raged fury
    This is a perfect example of people not understanding what they are getting into. Life isn't that hard to figure out but people really do try their best to bork it up.

    That "subscription in beta" is probably couched as supporting the development of the game. I think Pantheon has several instances of this.

    It is not a subscription to play it is financially supporting beta, almost like a kickstarter but different.

    You don't want to support the game in development? GREAT! Most people wouldn't and I completely understand why, especially if that game isn't guaranteed to launch. So you don't do it. You don't give them a monthly tithe or whatever you/they want to call it. Problem solved.
    I will say it again.

    If an indie developer did anything remotely close to something like Epic did for Fortnite absolute total hell would have been paid.

    are you in any way saying that statement would be false? are you saying that if an indie developer did what Epic did that they would not get any more heat for it then Epic did.

    seriously?

    the double standard I see from my end is absolutely blindly obvious on multiple topics
    Sean, this is just another example of why talking with you is so hard. I have no idea how you are wired.

    If you had said "this is what Fortnight did and it was x, y and zed" I would then be able to fully look into it and make a better assessment of what you were talking about.
     But no you just throughout some examples and somehow we must mind read. You do this all the time.

    then just dont.

    I will say it a 3rd time.

    If an indie developer did even 1/2 of what Dice did in any misunderstood obfuscated way whatsoever that could even remotely be construed as possibly doing what I laid out, people would have gone absolutely batshit crazy mad.

    People put CR on fire for being a  month late, can you imagine what people would have done even in any obfucated kinda sorta maybe have it kinda look like 1/2 of what I laid out?....

    I mean for christ sake look at how much hell Ark got for having a DLC that had 'deserts' in them because 'deserts' where mentioned in the kickstarter. Compare that with charging the most expensive price ever for an early access game that is F2P?  are you joking me?
    Sean, it's very well could be different audiences.

    You make this assumption that the same people are saying one thing about one company but not saying anything about another. If that's your position that's great, but "show your work".
    MrMelGibson



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