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5 years later and no Beta?

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,475
    I should probably correct my "three years" - obviously 5 years.

    Now, if we hit the 7 year mark (no pun intended) then I think questions can be raised, especially if there is no beta.


    MrMelGibsonConstantineMerustweedledumb99



  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member UncommonPosts: 610
    lol people complain about crappy mmo's now when something is actually produced from nothing they start complaining it takes to long..

    patience my young one... this mmo will last forever
    Kylerantweedledumb99
  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 264
    My main concern with this one is that when I log in I see the same thing I've seen the past 2 to 3 years it seems like.  When I watch the streams I see them working on really cool looking stuff, but when I log in I get nowhere near that experience.  Now maybe it's because I didn't 'donate' enough money but being a backer since the beginning I would think that I would have the opportunity to login and see some of the more modern artwork/game in play.  

    When they announce beta.. I'm really concerned what that may be.  Nothing big bang ever goes over well.. so for that reason I'm not expecting an exciting beta.  I hope they prove me wrong but right now there seems to be a gap.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,877
    Luiden said:
    My main concern with this one is that when I log in I see the same thing I've seen the past 2 to 3 years it seems like.  When I watch the streams I see them working on really cool looking stuff, but when I log in I get nowhere near that experience.  Now maybe it's because I didn't 'donate' enough money but being a backer since the beginning I would think that I would have the opportunity to login and see some of the more modern artwork/game in play.  

    When they announce beta.. I'm really concerned what that may be.  Nothing big bang ever goes over well.. so for that reason I'm not expecting an exciting beta.  I hope they prove me wrong but right now there seems to be a gap.
    The tiered transparency and access to these projects is annoying and it kindles general frustration. It's like, "Please be patient, but if you're not you can join our more devoted supporters on the $750 tier." And later on when a project is suffocating for fund they start throwing in the world for dimes on the dollar. It's an unsavory situation all around.
    MrMelGibsonnatpick
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,560
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:


      The silence is deafening tho
    There are updates from them, in my e-mail box from:

    11/30
    12/8 & 12/13 with live stream schedule
    12/15 & 12/18 with their live stream schedule
    2 for 12/22 though one is a sort of "Happy Holidays" thing

    I could go on but there is absolutely no silence.

    what more? 11/28, 11/22 thankgiving thing, 11/20

    it just continues.

    Not to belabor the point but one just came in for the Jan 2- 8th streaming schedule.
    I don't suppose any of those updates contain a delivery schedule for beta 1 or final release, right?

    I get them but stopped reading as I said to Mark, stop telling me what they've accomplished,  tell me how much is left and when they plan to deliver each one.

    Project management and scheduling, they are real things that even game developers are capable of, especially 5 years into the project.

    ;)


    MrMelGibsonConstantineMerus

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,560
    edited January 2018
    Blackboa said:
    The team at Camelot Unchained is among the most transparent out there.  Every day they show their development of the game on their twitch channel, and on Friday's you get a chance to ask your questions directly to Mark and the devs.  I highly recommend going in and asking some questions of your own if you have any doubts about the game.  Their channel is https://www.twitch.tv/citystategames.  A big announcement is expected at the end of January, so we will see what is on the horizon.
    So what's the answer on the release schedule, surely someone thinks to ask.

    More info in January?

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,560
    Torval said:
    Luiden said:
    My main concern with this one is that when I log in I see the same thing I've seen the past 2 to 3 years it seems like.  When I watch the streams I see them working on really cool looking stuff, but when I log in I get nowhere near that experience.  Now maybe it's because I didn't 'donate' enough money but being a backer since the beginning I would think that I would have the opportunity to login and see some of the more modern artwork/game in play.  

    When they announce beta.. I'm really concerned what that may be.  Nothing big bang ever goes over well.. so for that reason I'm not expecting an exciting beta.  I hope they prove me wrong but right now there seems to be a gap.
    The tiered transparency and access to these projects is annoying and it kindles general frustration. It's like, "Please be patient, but if you're not you can join our more devoted supporters on the $750 tier." And later on when a project is suffocating for fund they start throwing in the world for dimes on the dollar. It's an unsavory situation all around.
    To Mark's credit at no point has he tried to squeeze the current backers for more money.
    MrMelGibsonConstantineMeruspantarotweedledumb99

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,475
    edited January 2018
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:


      The silence is deafening tho
    There are updates from them, in my e-mail box from:

    11/30
    12/8 & 12/13 with live stream schedule
    12/15 & 12/18 with their live stream schedule
    2 for 12/22 though one is a sort of "Happy Holidays" thing

    I could go on but there is absolutely no silence.

    what more? 11/28, 11/22 thankgiving thing, 11/20

    it just continues.

    Not to belabor the point but one just came in for the Jan 2- 8th streaming schedule.
    I don't suppose any of those updates contain a delivery schedule for beta 1 or final release, right?

    I get them but stopped reading as I said to Mark, stop telling me what they've accomplished,  tell me how much is left and when they plan to deliver each one.

    Project management and scheduling, they are real things that even game developers are capable of, especially 5 years into the project.

    ;)


    True but the point is there is no "silence", no opaque wall where people who gave money have to guess or wonder.

    I should probably add, it's "damned if they do damned if the don't" as they are one of the few developers who give wayyyyy too much info but they share with their backers at every corner.

    If they didn't, if they were more like Darkfall or any other number of indy games that were in development for several years, they would also get flack.




    Post edited by Sovrath on



  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,877
    Kyleran said:
    Torval said:
    Luiden said:
    My main concern with this one is that when I log in I see the same thing I've seen the past 2 to 3 years it seems like.  When I watch the streams I see them working on really cool looking stuff, but when I log in I get nowhere near that experience.  Now maybe it's because I didn't 'donate' enough money but being a backer since the beginning I would think that I would have the opportunity to login and see some of the more modern artwork/game in play.  

    When they announce beta.. I'm really concerned what that may be.  Nothing big bang ever goes over well.. so for that reason I'm not expecting an exciting beta.  I hope they prove me wrong but right now there seems to be a gap.
    The tiered transparency and access to these projects is annoying and it kindles general frustration. It's like, "Please be patient, but if you're not you can join our more devoted supporters on the $750 tier." And later on when a project is suffocating for fund they start throwing in the world for dimes on the dollar. It's an unsavory situation all around.
    To Mark's credit at no point has he tried to squeeze the current backers for more money.
    If you want in earlier you pay more. If you want more access to the current information directly, pay more. One of both of these is common to every project.

    They don't actively squeeze players. They create an envy situation where people have to pay more to get in closer to the group, to get in the action sooner, to have their voice heard. All the projects do it. And then later on at some point they will relax the pricing point on the tiers, add a sweeter package perk, or both. The latter usually happens later after the crowdfunding campaign is over and the project web store is made.

    Ashes does it too. Crowfall, Pantheon. Rather than squeezing, it's probably more accurate to say they're working and massaging their money pool. I think that all ties back into the frustration a lot of backers have and express. Years and delays later they want some return on their contribution when typically only the highest donating tiers have access, for years at a time, in this way.

    If studios can't keep their broader base happy through these projects then they'll find the majority of their funding dry up. It's a difficult situation from both perspectives, just like the timeline and delays thing.
    MrMelGibson
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • some-clueless-guysome-clueless-guy Member UncommonPosts: 216
    At the risk of saying something obvious, one can check the site under Community > User Stories. Each "story" has a list of features, what has been implemented and what is yet to be done. Doesn't really answer the question "When?" but it definitely proves that they are transparent.
    Phry
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,240
    Luiden said:
    My main concern with this one is that when I log in I see the same thing I've seen the past 2 to 3 years it seems like.  When I watch the streams I see them working on really cool looking stuff, but when I log in I get nowhere near that experience.  Now maybe it's because I didn't 'donate' enough money but being a backer since the beginning I would think that I would have the opportunity to login and see some of the more modern artwork/game in play.  

    When they announce beta.. I'm really concerned what that may be.  Nothing big bang ever goes over well.. so for that reason I'm not expecting an exciting beta.  I hope they prove me wrong but right now there seems to be a gap.
    Checkout the Beta 1 document: http://camelotunchained.com/v3/beta-1/

    It lists out everything they are hoping to have in the game for the first beta. It's a pretty comprehensive document with some interesting info. I'm not a backer myself - I don't really approve of the whole crowd-funding philosophy so will only hand over money when I am able to play something - so reading through this beta doc let me know about tons of things I wasn't aware of for the game. 


    Anyway, Mark said he's going to have a big announcement for us end of Jan / start of Feb, so I expect beta 1 to be formally announced soon. 


    Its also worth noting that CSE follow a more traditional route of development. Alpha -> Beta -> Release. None of this early access bullshit or releasing half-finished games. Each beta test is going to add more features for specific tests, then they'll release. I know it's probably unrealistic but I do think CU has a good chance of releasing in 2018. We already have the CUBE system. Beta 1 will give us the core engine (1000+ player battles!), sieges, ability system and animations. That's basically the core game. 

    After that, we need the RvRvR system for controlling the world / floating islands. Then we need the remaining classes added and the crafting system finished off. These are already being worked on and tested, just not ready for beta 1. Then there is the depths, which I'm not too clued up on admittedly. 



    Also worth remembering that CSE don't need to create 10,000 NPCs, 1m lines of dialogues, 3000 quests and all that other time consuming expensive shit. Once the systems are in place, we are the content. 


    BruceYeetweedledumb99
  • some-clueless-guysome-clueless-guy Member UncommonPosts: 216
    Luiden said:
    My main concern with this one is that when I log in I see the same thing I've seen the past 2 to 3 years it seems like.  When I watch the streams I see them working on really cool looking stuff, but when I log in I get nowhere near that experience.  Now maybe it's because I didn't 'donate' enough money but being a backer since the beginning I would think that I would have the opportunity to login and see some of the more modern artwork/game in play.  

    When they announce beta.. I'm really concerned what that may be.  Nothing big bang ever goes over well.. so for that reason I'm not expecting an exciting beta.  I hope they prove me wrong but right now there seems to be a gap.
    Checkout the Beta 1 document: http://camelotunchained.com/v3/beta-1/

    It lists out everything they are hoping to have in the game for the first beta. It's a pretty comprehensive document with some interesting info. I'm not a backer myself - I don't really approve of the whole crowd-funding philosophy so will only hand over money when I am able to play something - so reading through this beta doc let me know about tons of things I wasn't aware of for the game. 


    Anyway, Mark said he's going to have a big announcement for us end of Jan / start of Feb, so I expect beta 1 to be formally announced soon. 


    Its also worth noting that CSE follow a more traditional route of development. Alpha -> Beta -> Release. None of this early access bullshit or releasing half-finished games. Each beta test is going to add more features for specific tests, then they'll release. I know it's probably unrealistic but I do think CU has a good chance of releasing in 2018. We already have the CUBE system. Beta 1 will give us the core engine (1000+ player battles!), sieges, ability system and animations. That's basically the core game. 

    After that, we need the RvRvR system for controlling the world / floating islands. Then we need the remaining classes added and the crafting system finished off. These are already being worked on and tested, just not ready for beta 1. Then there is the depths, which I'm not too clued up on admittedly. 



    Also worth remembering that CSE don't need to create 10,000 NPCs, 1m lines of dialogues, 3000 quests and all that other time consuming expensive shit. Once the systems are in place, we are the content. 


    Unlikely to release in 2018, were I into that sort of thing I would be willing to bet in fact. They are putting a lot of effort to have a Beta that is fun to play with the Dragon Circle and Scenarios. I don't think they would waste time on that if they were expecting just a few months of Beta. It's not necessarily bad per-se, because it means that Beta will be enjoyable instead of a chore.

    I wouldn't mind a release without the depths for example, since the depths were one of the stretch goals and, while being provided free of charge, they could fit in like some of the classes which are planned for a post-launch release (looking at the scout here). 
    meddyckJamesGoblinTorvaltweedledumb99
  • GavyneGavyne Member UncommonPosts: 116
    Announced today they are still hiring, 3 new people this month, with more to come.  "Adding not subtracting", so that's good news for their studio size...and sort of confirms they are in final stretches for some kind of beta launch.



    Strange that I could walk away and become uninterested.  Then this lil bit of news of new hires perked my interest right back up.

    JamesGoblinAlomartweedledumb99

    Played: EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-LOTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO-BDO
    Waiting For: CU & Vanilla WoW

  • VyntVynt Member UncommonPosts: 753
    It really hasn't been that long. The kickstarter ended in May 2013, so coming up on 5 years, but at that point all they had was an idea basically. No work done. Then it took them a while to get going, then that set back others mentioned.

     It will probably release next year which would be 6 years. That is pretty good considering how small they started and with delays and setbacks of a year+, along with developing their own engine, it is actually a decent development period.

    In the end, it all depends on the quality of the game. If it is good, no one is going to care about an extra year or 2. If it sucks, no amount of time would have helped it.
    some-clueless-guyKyutaSyukotweedledumb99
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited January 2018
    Kyleran said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Scorchien said:


      The silence is deafening tho
    There are updates from them, in my e-mail box from:

    11/30
    12/8 & 12/13 with live stream schedule
    12/15 & 12/18 with their live stream schedule
    2 for 12/22 though one is a sort of "Happy Holidays" thing

    I could go on but there is absolutely no silence.

    what more? 11/28, 11/22 thankgiving thing, 11/20

    it just continues.

    Not to belabor the point but one just came in for the Jan 2- 8th streaming schedule.
    I don't suppose any of those updates contain a delivery schedule for beta 1 or final release, right?

    I get them but stopped reading as I said to Mark, stop telling me what they've accomplished,  tell me how much is left and when they plan to deliver each one.

    Project management and scheduling, they are real things that even game developers are capable of, especially 5 years into the project.

    ;)


    Blasphemy!  Game development is a nebulous, highly esoteric discipline that is incapable of being gauged or otherwise measured!  Indeed, it is the forefront of human discovery and should be treated with reverence as such!  So says the white knights, and their word is law and, as such, beyond contestation!
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    KyleranSlapshot1188

    image
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,693
    If there's no beta by 2019-2020 I'll start getting worried but not at all right now.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,527
    edited January 2018
    Did they raise a surplus of funding or something to be able to survive these delays?  Money doesn't last forever.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,560
    edited January 2018
    Tiamat64 said:
    Did they raise a surplus of funding or something to be able to survive these delays?  Money doesn't last forever.
    Exactly. Every day you develop you are burning cash. If you are Chris Roberts you just sell another $35M in pixel spaceships, but everyone else has to live within the budget.

    I don't care if they plan to deliver in 2022, just publish the darn schedule.

    You folks are being blinded by the flood of information that actually distracts you from what really matters at this point.

    Torval

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,208
    Pretty sure the OP was written to target certain critics of CoE who are backers of CU.  

    Two points:

    1. Refunds offered are a good thing and have been offered since the project started.  Trying to paint them as bad is just sad. IMHO any game/project that misses it's deadline by a significant amount should offer refunds.  Offering a refund shows confidence in your project.  Not offering them shows concern that too many people would ask for them and the project would quickly go under.
    2. CU does not get an excuse for being late.  Mark has taken his lumps for it and he deserved them.  He's going to have to work hard to get me excited for Beta
    KyleranMadFrenchielaseritmeddyckYashaXtweedledumb99

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    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Pretty sure the OP was written to target certain critics of CoE who are backers of CU.  

    Two points:

    1. Refunds offered are a good thing and have been offered since the project started.  Trying to paint them as bad is just sad. IMHO any game/project that misses it's deadline by a significant amount should offer refunds.  Offering a refund shows confidence in your project.  Not offering them shows concern that too many people would ask for them and the project would quickly go under.
    2. CU does not get an excuse for being late.  Mark has taken his lumps for it and he deserved them.  He's going to have to work hard to get me excited for Beta
    Was thinking the exact same thing.  Like, offering refunds means they're running out of money?  What kind of logic....

    image
  • time007time007 Member UncommonPosts: 1,054
    Elminzter said:
    the writing was on the wall, when they decided to built their own engine, therefore they bite off more than they could chew.., they could have learnt lessons from past mmorpg failures e.g. shadowbane, great game but letdown by a crappy engine poor latency making sieges mostly a lag fest, game was fun when there's no lag but once it lagged its GG!!!

    my 2 cents
    yes it would have been so exciting to have heard "they are using unreal engine" for the 900th time in MMO history.  If i have to see one more freaking MMO using the Unreal engine...ugh.  give them time. wait for their great product, if not then just dont bother following it.  we haven't hit star citizen levels yet. we are like 5 years away from star citizen-level time.
    tweedledumb99

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  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    They really need to get this out sooner rather than later otherwise the community interest will slowly begin to evaporate ... I think that's happening already.
    meddycktweedledumb99
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    They really need to get this out sooner rather than later otherwise the community interest will slowly begin to evaporate ... I think that's happening already.
    IMO - They need to have a fun, competitive game.  If it's not ready, it's not ready.
    tweedledumb99
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    They really need to get this out sooner rather than later otherwise the community interest will slowly begin to evaporate ... I think that's happening already.
    This is a constant for all the crowdfunding projects.  Some projects just spend more time attempting to maintain hype than CU (a LOT more time, in some cases).

    I'm not overly optimistic for the results of any of these projects.  However, those who are controlling the hype and focusing on the niche seem a much better bet.  If the idea behind SC was so fucking awesome, how come no investors have tried funding a project like it?  Same for any of these titles.

    Folks wanna say investors are scared.  That's ironic, seeing as investors regularly take higher financial risks than most of the posters here would ever consider taking.  They just also aren't stupid, and take calculated risks instead of funding with their hearts.

    From that perspective, less is more on the hype train.
    SedrynTyrosYashaX

    image
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    They really need to get this out sooner rather than later otherwise the community interest will slowly begin to evaporate ... I think that's happening already.
    IMO - They need to have a fun, competitive game.  If it's not ready, it's not ready.
    I 100% agree with you but if they can't get that game out the door in a reasonable amount of time the technology they're trying to implement may end up being too far behind the curve to be interesting to their proposed audience.  Whatever it is that's holding up production, they need to fix that shit and soon.
    MadFrenchielaseritKyleran
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