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Call of Duty Swatting leads to death of a innocent man in Kansas

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,165
    Rosenborg said:
    klash2def said:
    SBFord said:

    I hope that the investigation leads to a conviction of the guy in LA and a thorough investigation of how the hell he was shot in the first place. There seems to be a disconnect between the mother's story and the police version.
    I find it hard to believe a confused man who did not own a weapon would be reaching for his waist in that situation.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/12/08/graphic-video-shows-daniel-shaver-sobbing-and-begging-officer-for-his-life-before-2016-shooting/

    I thought about that question when I heard about this case. I guess it's just something you don't really think about, happens out of instinct.

    Insightful, unfortunate results but this video highlights something I always told my children, when dealing with the police always listen carefully, don't talk back, and do "exactly" what they tell you, especially if its a guns drawn situation. 

    This kid reached behind his back after first putting his hands down on the floor (they could have shot him at this point) despite being told to not put his hands down for any reason, even if he had to fall face down on the floor.

    I carry my handgun in the exact place he reached his right hand behind his back so the police are not wrong to be concerned,  though I still think this was an extraordinary over reaction by police that should be calmer than they appeared to be.

    Might not have been something they could be convicted on, but they should never work in law enforcement again, its clear they lack the nerve for it.

    So the same could have happened in this case, was mentioned the man killed was Latino,  he may not have understood English and didnt follow instructions.

    As mentioned, a different problem and a serious one here in the US, which affects all of us.




    Asm0deusklash2defConstantineMerusJeffSpicoliMrMelGibson

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,741
    klash2def said:
    Horusra said:
    klash2def said:
    SBFord said:

    I hope that the investigation leads to a conviction of the guy in LA and a thorough investigation of how the hell he was shot in the first place. There seems to be a disconnect between the mother's story and the police version.
    This always happens when the police kill someone. To justify the dead body. They said he was reaching for his waist..I find it hard to believe a confused man who did not own a weapon would be reaching for his waist in that situation. The truth is closer to the man being confused because the police were at his front door. Any of us would be confused. The policeman who shot him (even though he was tricked) didnt ask any questions, he shot the man because he was latino and the story fit the perp in his mind. This happens far too often for me to believe otherwise. That's a whole other bag to unpack.

    I do not believe one second the police version. The mother is telling the truth. Imagine the police show up at your door, would your first reaction be to grab a imaginary gun and open the door reaching for your waist? really? That's the story they came with. smh..
    Police. Are. Trigger. Happy. 

    But still..None of this happens without that idiotic kid

    Too bad body worn cameras have proved you false in most cases.  People should instead follow directions and not do stupid stuff.
    wtf are you talking about? Did you think before writing that, or did something trigger you?

    Do you not see how many people are killed without cause and yes on body camera? You actually think a body camera stops police from killing people? You probably also think the people getting killed are isolated cases even though its thousands a year. 

    Im not even going to unpack what you said, just google it. There are so many cases where police kill innocents especially Black Men and get away with it that its laughable. Its easy to get away with murder when the DA wont even take the case to trial. 

    "Follow Directions" ? "Not do stupid stuff"? HUH? What did this guy do that was stupid and wasnt following directions.. furthermore what did he do that deemed a police officer to open fire on him at his house? I'll wait for this because I know you are gonna try to deflect.

    There are so MANY cases where the police say put your hands up, the man puts his hands up, police still shoot, they always say some bullshit like "i was scared." or "I smelled weed" as if somehow it justifies not following the ROE and shooting an unarmed man. You do realize that even if you don't follow directions, an officer cannot shoot you if you pose no threat. The most they can do is taser. They cannot shoot you with a caliber weapon.

    I already know what your comment is about and what you are eluding to but Im going to leave that for you to deal with on your own. 

    Wrong is wrong period, stop justifying the bullshit and blaming the victims.

    Edit: I really hate when people try to make themselves look smart by saying dumb shit. 
    100% full of absolute shit. Stop race-baiting and spewing ignorant, vile crap. You fit your own last sentence to a 'T'. 

    I honestly hope the next time you need a cop, you can't find one. 
    I don't know what I did to you for this response but okay.. let it out?

    Answer me this: Why is anything I said there race baiting? Everything I said is true. You are angry because its true and that makes you uncomfortable. Its okay. Its uncomfortable for everyone. There are a lot of harsh truths about this country. 

    Ignorant ? Vile ? No.. Truth yes. The dude said people should follow directions and stop doing stupid shit. Im pointing out the truth that even when people "follow directions" they still get killed. This is a fact. I don't care if you believe it. Stay mad I guess? 

    The next time I need a cop, (Which I hope I never do) I pray that its a good cop who wants to help me not one who thinks like this guy or yourself. I didn't say all cops are bad, a lot are though. Read the entire thread before you start getting triggered. Ive said this in multiple posts.
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,188
    edited December 2017
    Something some people should read:

    When Cops Can Legally Shoot People

    A law professor explains the sometimes tricky rules that govern when a police officer using lethal force is technically justified under the law.

    https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/dpkzaa/cops-kill-america-black-lives-matter-civil-liberties-rights-law



    klash2def

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Horusra said:
    klash2def said:
    SBFord said:

    I hope that the investigation leads to a conviction of the guy in LA and a thorough investigation of how the hell he was shot in the first place. There seems to be a disconnect between the mother's story and the police version.
    This always happens when the police kill someone. To justify the dead body. They said he was reaching for his waist..I find it hard to believe a confused man who did not own a weapon would be reaching for his waist in that situation. The truth is closer to the man being confused because the police were at his front door. Any of us would be confused. The policeman who shot him (even though he was tricked) didnt ask any questions, he shot the man because he was latino and the story fit the perp in his mind. This happens far too often for me to believe otherwise. That's a whole other bag to unpack.

    I do not believe one second the police version. The mother is telling the truth. Imagine the police show up at your door, would your first reaction be to grab a imaginary gun and open the door reaching for your waist? really? That's the story they came with. smh..
    Police. Are. Trigger. Happy. 

    But still..None of this happens without that idiotic kid

    Too bad body worn cameras have proved you false in most cases.  People should instead follow directions and not do stupid stuff.
    Let's not start.  There's video of a man being shot while crawling towards the officer (why the fuck the officer needed the suspect to crawl towards him, I dunno).

    Is every case a matter of police reacting terribly?  No.  But it happens, and it happens in situations where the application of force is not proportional to the gravity of the situation or action by the suspect.
    Asm0deusklash2defJeffSpicoliAvarixShodanas

    image
  • bonzoso21bonzoso21 Member UncommonPosts: 358
    As if there wasn't enough information available already for people to question the responding officers' inability to verify information before using lethal force, the 911 call and distant bodycam footage have been released. The piece of garbage on the call describes a single-story house and the house where they killed the guy is two stories. At least the swatter guy is in jail. 
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,987
    edited December 2017
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    Golelorn said:
    My beef is why is SWAT going in guns blazing and not asking serious questions... like "Hey, is this maybe a prank? What does my intuition say?" Instead, they are so trigger happy they really don't care - and "we" do not hold these idiots with guns accountable.

    Absolutely ridiculous a guy is murdered by a SWAT team and these idiots continue to fall for these pranks. SWAT doesn't care. They just want to blast a m-fer.

    The trigger man should be in prison, and the captain(whoever is in charge) should be fired/resign immediately.
    Because sometimes it's not a prank.  In the United States, about 100-200 police officers die on the job each year.  If you're an officer and go into a situation where you're confronting a criminal who will kill you if given a chance, you'd better pull the trigger quickly enough to stop him or you'll be dead.

    Distinguishing between an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time, a criminal who will cooperate with an arrest, and a very dangerous criminal who will try to kill the police that confront him is not always easy to do in the heat of the moment.
    That's not an excuse for bad behavior and gross incompetence leading to an innocent getting killed in his doorstep.

    Cops are "suppose" to be trained for these situation and to be able to make these "split second" decisions, they are suppose to follow a higher standard of behavior so they can fulfill their vows to "serve and protect". 

    Sadly what is going in the USA is that far too many officers are putting "their lives" above those they are suppose to be serving and protecting and some people stupidly applaud this in the name of kissing the blues backside.

    They do try to train for it, as well they should.  To take a less politically charged and less important situation, basketball players are trained to make the shots they take.  But they still miss a lot.  Reliably doing everything exactly right even when put into arbitrarily difficult situations is beyond human capabilities.

    Could the training or recruitment be better?  Perhaps, though it's much harder to say it could be made better in this particular way than that there is probably some way that it could be made better.  But few Internet commentators have the expertise to justifiably say that there would be fewer mistakes on all sides if only the training were changed in this or that way.
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,741
    bonzoso21 said:
    As if there wasn't enough information available already for people to question the responding officers' inability to verify information before using lethal force, the 911 call and distant bodycam footage have been released. The piece of garbage on the call describes a single-story house and the house where they killed the guy is two stories. At least the swatter guy is in jail. 
    There you have it. Now they can end thread. 
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,741
    edited December 2017
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    Golelorn said:
    My beef is why is SWAT going in guns blazing and not asking serious questions... like "Hey, is this maybe a prank? What does my intuition say?" Instead, they are so trigger happy they really don't care - and "we" do not hold these idiots with guns accountable.

    Absolutely ridiculous a guy is murdered by a SWAT team and these idiots continue to fall for these pranks. SWAT doesn't care. They just want to blast a m-fer.

    The trigger man should be in prison, and the captain(whoever is in charge) should be fired/resign immediately.
    Because sometimes it's not a prank.  In the United States, about 100-200 police officers die on the job each year.  If you're an officer and go into a situation where you're confronting a criminal who will kill you if given a chance, you'd better pull the trigger quickly enough to stop him or you'll be dead.

    Distinguishing between an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time, a criminal who will cooperate with an arrest, and a very dangerous criminal who will try to kill the police that confront him is not always easy to do in the heat of the moment.
    That's not an excuse for bad behavior and gross incompetence leading to an innocent getting killed in his doorstep.

    Cops are "suppose" to be trained for these situation and to be able to make these "split second" decisions, they are suppose to follow a higher standard of behavior so they can fulfill their vows to "serve and protect". 

    Sadly what is going in the USA is that far too many officers are putting "their lives" above those they are suppose to be serving and protecting and some people stupidly applaud this in the name of kissing the blues backside.

    They do try to train for it, as well they should.  To take a less politically charged and less important situation, basketball players are trained to make the shots they take.  But they still miss a lot.  Reliably doing everything exactly right even when put into arbitrarily difficult situations is beyond human capabilities.

    Could the training or recruitment be better?  Perhaps, though it's much harder to say it could be made better in this particular way than that there is probably some way that it could be made better.  But few Internet commentators have the expertise to justifiably say that there would be fewer mistakes on all sides if only the training were changed in this or that way.
    But basketball is based on chance also. Meaning you can run the play perfectly but the damn ball just wont go in! The player did do the right thing it just didnt work. NBA guys can do everything right and still not score. There is defense also not just offense. So maybe you have a off night offensively but your defense is tight.

    Thats not Police.. a Police mistake is more like the coach drawing up a play, but then nobody executes it. Everyone just goes out and throws a football not a basketball at the rim expecting it to go in. The entire thing is wrong. Then imagine if the team says "huh? our player did nothing wrong! Not all of our players throw footballs some are good players!" The NBA cant have guys who think throwing a football at the hoop is right when they are signed as basketball players.. Its just backwards. The person needed to fix that before he got to the NBA.

    So thats not a police training thing. Thats an ethics thing with the person. Person needed to fix that way before getting any police training.
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    Golelorn said:
    My beef is why is SWAT going in guns blazing and not asking serious questions... like "Hey, is this maybe a prank? What does my intuition say?" Instead, they are so trigger happy they really don't care - and "we" do not hold these idiots with guns accountable.

    Absolutely ridiculous a guy is murdered by a SWAT team and these idiots continue to fall for these pranks. SWAT doesn't care. They just want to blast a m-fer.

    The trigger man should be in prison, and the captain(whoever is in charge) should be fired/resign immediately.
    Because sometimes it's not a prank.  In the United States, about 100-200 police officers die on the job each year.  If you're an officer and go into a situation where you're confronting a criminal who will kill you if given a chance, you'd better pull the trigger quickly enough to stop him or you'll be dead.

    Distinguishing between an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time, a criminal who will cooperate with an arrest, and a very dangerous criminal who will try to kill the police that confront him is not always easy to do in the heat of the moment.
    That's not an excuse for bad behavior and gross incompetence leading to an innocent getting killed in his doorstep.

    Cops are "suppose" to be trained for these situation and to be able to make these "split second" decisions, they are suppose to follow a higher standard of behavior so they can fulfill their vows to "serve and protect". 

    Sadly what is going in the USA is that far too many officers are putting "their lives" above those they are suppose to be serving and protecting and some people stupidly applaud this in the name of kissing the blues backside.

    They do try to train for it, as well they should.  To take a less politically charged and less important situation, basketball players are trained to make the shots they take.  But they still miss a lot.  Reliably doing everything exactly right even when put into arbitrarily difficult situations is beyond human capabilities.

    Could the training or recruitment be better?  Perhaps, though it's much harder to say it could be made better in this particular way than that there is probably some way that it could be made better.  But few Internet commentators have the expertise to justifiably say that there would be fewer mistakes on all sides if only the training were changed in this or that way.
    The data doesn't lie.  Compared to other countries across the world, police shootings are much higher here in America...  much, much higher.

    Sort of like gun control- some American citizens cannot be convinced of anything they don't wish to believe, no matter how much data or evidence supports it.
    Asm0deus

    image
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,188
    edited December 2017
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    Golelorn said:
    My beef is why is SWAT going in guns blazing and not asking serious questions... like "Hey, is this maybe a prank? What does my intuition say?" Instead, they are so trigger happy they really don't care - and "we" do not hold these idiots with guns accountable.

    Absolutely ridiculous a guy is murdered by a SWAT team and these idiots continue to fall for these pranks. SWAT doesn't care. They just want to blast a m-fer.

    The trigger man should be in prison, and the captain(whoever is in charge) should be fired/resign immediately.
    Because sometimes it's not a prank.  In the United States, about 100-200 police officers die on the job each year.  If you're an officer and go into a situation where you're confronting a criminal who will kill you if given a chance, you'd better pull the trigger quickly enough to stop him or you'll be dead.

    Distinguishing between an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time, a criminal who will cooperate with an arrest, and a very dangerous criminal who will try to kill the police that confront him is not always easy to do in the heat of the moment.
    That's not an excuse for bad behavior and gross incompetence leading to an innocent getting killed in his doorstep.

    Cops are "suppose" to be trained for these situation and to be able to make these "split second" decisions, they are suppose to follow a higher standard of behavior so they can fulfill their vows to "serve and protect". 

    Sadly what is going in the USA is that far too many officers are putting "their lives" above those they are suppose to be serving and protecting and some people stupidly applaud this in the name of kissing the blues backside.

    They do try to train for it, as well they should.  To take a less politically charged and less important situation, basketball players are trained to make the shots they take.  But they still miss a lot.  Reliably doing everything exactly right even when put into arbitrarily difficult situations is beyond human capabilities.

    Could the training or recruitment be better?  Perhaps, though it's much harder to say it could be made better in this particular way than that there is probably some way that it could be made better.  But few Internet commentators have the expertise to justifiably say that there would be fewer mistakes on all sides if only the training were changed in this or that way.
    With all due respect it's damn ridiculous to compare playing basketball and this situation.  I am not cop bashing, it's a difficult job and not everyone is cut out for it.

    The problem is that time and again it has been shown over the last 10 years that far too many cops are allowed to be cops when they are clearly not cut out for it, lack training, or have forgotten it and, this is where I think there is a huge problem, the training they are given isn't proper or needs to be re evaluated.

    No one here can argue away the fact that cops today unholster their guns and shoot people out of being "fearful" for their lives when it's afterwards proven they were in no danger that required deadly force.

    Just because an officer needs to make a split sec decision judgement call doesn't mean they should not be held responsible for the action they make.

    Paid administrative leave is not that.

    The victims mom and that family needs to sue the Wichita PD into the ground so this isn't just summarily dismissed like happens far too often.
    Post edited by Asm0deus on
    klash2def

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    edited December 2017
    thunderC said:
    Just a quick update on this story and getting back to what the tragedy is really about, The kid (grown man 25) who called in the swat apparently was arrested in California and does this swatting for money, people hire him to swat others ( for 5-20 bucks) and he openly brags about it on his twitter page which i wont link but is easy to find if you go to reddit or just a simple google search. The big Argument the swatter is making on his twitter is its the police fault and he should be set free...... /sigh 
    California has some "nice" penitentiary facilities. I hope that this man-child gets to taste one of them.
    JeffSpicoli
  • DragnelusDragnelus Member EpicPosts: 3,245

    Livingston said when the door opened, officers gave Finch commands to put his hands up and walk toward them. He complied for a "very short time" and put his hands back down. He raised them again, and then lowered them for a second time, Livingston said.

    "The male then turned towards the officers on the east side of the residence, lowered his hands to the waistband again, then suddenly pulled them back up towards those officers at the east," he said. "The officers on the north side of the street feared the male pulled a weapon from his waistband, retrieved a gun and was in the process of pointing it at the officers to the east. Fearing for those officers’ safety, the officer on the north side fired one round."

    http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192281169.html

    JeffSpicoli

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    klash2def said:
    I will never understand this. Swatting is not just in COD.. My nephew was playing Division on xbox just on Thursday when i was over there.. he is 17 and I guess he was kicking some other dudes ass in the dark zone.. well my nephew has this guy who sounds like a full adult saying and i quote "keep laughing little bitch, you must be hacking i'm gonna swat you bitch." Thankfully nothing happened but still that term has become part of FPS/Online Shooter culture. So much so that even I didn't pay that moment much attention. We must have standards to this, we cant just be okay with things like this because as we see actual people get hurt not pixels. 

    This kid gave a random address, that means others do it also, which means any of us could die to this prank..

    Please parents please teach your kids how to lose. 
    Is there a platform specific way to report people who make those threats? I mean Microsoft, Sony, Valve, BattleNet, and any other platform like those where players are shoved together.

    I suspect the unintended consequence of this and other industry "issues" will likely lead to less anonymity and more intrusion for us. Punishment alone isn't enough, or won't be enough I suspect, and more proactive deterrents will be sought.

    We also need to understand why a weapon was discharged in the first place. Uniformed services cannot simply continue to operate on hearsay, which has been so prevalent in these cases, with no consequences for when they fuck up. They fucked this up big time.
    klash2defAsm0deus
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,741
    "The mother said the police did NOT knock on the door. She said Andrew opened the door to investigate why the police were outside and that was when they shot him. They cleared the house before calling paramedics and they forced the family to walk over his body as he lie there bleeding out in the doorway. The family never heard of swatting before this."

     :( 

    Its on CNN now
    Asm0deusDragnelusTorval
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,188
    Dragnelus said:

    Livingston said when the door opened, officers gave Finch commands to put his hands up and walk toward them. He complied for a "very short time" and put his hands back down. He raised them again, and then lowered them for a second time, Livingston said.

    "The male then turned towards the officers on the east side of the residence, lowered his hands to the waistband again, then suddenly pulled them back up towards those officers at the east," he said. "The officers on the north side of the street feared the male pulled a weapon from his waistband, retrieved a gun and was in the process of pointing it at the officers to the east. Fearing for those officers’ safety, the officer on the north side fired one round."

    http://www.kansas.com/news/local/crime/article192281169.html

    Doesn't mesh with what the family is saying, watch the video.
    https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/innocent-man-instantly-shot-by-police-after-gamer-feud-over-2-results-in-swatting-prank-at-kansas-home/

    I will let you all guess who I think is being more truthful here.

    klash2def

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,741
    Torval said:
    klash2def said:
    I will never understand this. Swatting is not just in COD.. My nephew was playing Division on xbox just on Thursday when i was over there.. he is 17 and I guess he was kicking some other dudes ass in the dark zone.. well my nephew has this guy who sounds like a full adult saying and i quote "keep laughing little bitch, you must be hacking i'm gonna swat you bitch." Thankfully nothing happened but still that term has become part of FPS/Online Shooter culture. So much so that even I didn't pay that moment much attention. We must have standards to this, we cant just be okay with things like this because as we see actual people get hurt not pixels. 

    This kid gave a random address, that means others do it also, which means any of us could die to this prank..

    Please parents please teach your kids how to lose. 
    Is there a platform specific way to report people who make those threats? I mean Microsoft, Sony, Valve, BattleNet, and any other platform like those where players are shoved together.

    I suspect the unintended consequence of this and other industry "issues" will likely lead to less anonymity and more intrusion for us. Punishment alone isn't enough, or won't be enough I suspect, and more proactive deterrents will be sought.

    We also need to understand why a weapon was discharged in the first place. Uniformed services cannot simply continue to operate on hearsay, which has been so prevalent in these cases, with no consequences for when they fuck up. They fucked this up big time.
    You know what Torval i'm surprised that there isn't a system in place. unless you block the IP address, the person can just make a new account and keep it up. Maybe some of the smart folks on this site can make the first app for such a thing?

    I wish this guy didn't lose his life but reality is he did. Going to be interesting to see how it affects Activision and other companies moving forward. 
    Torval
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • DragnelusDragnelus Member EpicPosts: 3,245
    klash2def said:
    "The mother said the police did NOT knock on the door. She said Andrew opened the door to investigate why the police were outside and that was when they shot him. They cleared the house before calling paramedics and they forced the family to walk over his body as he lie there bleeding out in the doorway. The family never heard of swatting before this."

     :( 

    Its on CNN now

    JeffSpicoli

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    JeffSpicoliAllerleirauhCryomatrixRexKushman

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  • ShaddyDaddyShaddyDaddy Member UncommonPosts: 187
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Are you fucking serious?
    JeffSpicoli
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,849
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    In a thread full of  light political sparring and people tip toeing around what they really want to say, what exactly are you advocating for ? Porno games?!  Im intrigued , do tell




    Ok come on someone needed to lighten the mood around here 


    MadFrenchie
    • Aloha Mr Hand ! 

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    shaddy33 said:
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Are you fucking serious?
    I have never seen an article where someone watched porn and then walked out of his house and gunned people down. There has never been a case where they've gone down and commited murder (either through themselves or swatting) just because they saw a boob. 

    I have however seen MANY articles where someone has played very violent games, gone out and shot a bunch of people. Lots of articles. I'm sure a google search would find a whole bunch since its kinda a common occurence, especially if the person started playing violent games at a really early age. A boob however has never made someone go out and go on a killing rampage or swatting someone.

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  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,188


    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Not really sure this had anything to do with violent games really.. I am sure this could have occured over a round of bloody candycrush if enough prestige was involved... 

    Nah... This is a case of someone being raised rotten.. either by parents or society in large. They they either feel it is ok to do this or that they have such fragile self-image that the potentail of a loss in a video game is enough to trigger them... No tto mention that it is society that teach them that violence is good responce. #toxicmasculinity and all that. 

    And before someone says.. "but i am X and have never done Y" I am not alcoholic nor am i a compulsive gambler... does not mean that others do not suffer from these problems. So you might have been raised in that hole next to Bane and come out a boy scout, it is apparent that not everyone was as lucky. 

    Still vote to have the fucker disolved in acid. 

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,283
    This is a famous one that happened in my neck of the woods.

    This was an execution.


    Dakeru

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    klash2def said:
    Torval said:
    klash2def said:
    I will never understand this. Swatting is not just in COD.. My nephew was playing Division on xbox just on Thursday when i was over there.. he is 17 and I guess he was kicking some other dudes ass in the dark zone.. well my nephew has this guy who sounds like a full adult saying and i quote "keep laughing little bitch, you must be hacking i'm gonna swat you bitch." Thankfully nothing happened but still that term has become part of FPS/Online Shooter culture. So much so that even I didn't pay that moment much attention. We must have standards to this, we cant just be okay with things like this because as we see actual people get hurt not pixels. 

    This kid gave a random address, that means others do it also, which means any of us could die to this prank..

    Please parents please teach your kids how to lose. 
    Is there a platform specific way to report people who make those threats? I mean Microsoft, Sony, Valve, BattleNet, and any other platform like those where players are shoved together.

    I suspect the unintended consequence of this and other industry "issues" will likely lead to less anonymity and more intrusion for us. Punishment alone isn't enough, or won't be enough I suspect, and more proactive deterrents will be sought.

    We also need to understand why a weapon was discharged in the first place. Uniformed services cannot simply continue to operate on hearsay, which has been so prevalent in these cases, with no consequences for when they fuck up. They fucked this up big time.
    You know what Torval i'm surprised that there isn't a system in place. unless you block the IP address, the person can just make a new account and keep it up. Maybe some of the smart folks on this site can make the first app for such a thing?

    I wish this guy didn't lose his life but reality is he did. Going to be interesting to see how it affects Activision and other companies moving forward. 
    When I was in the Navy were in a hurricane outside of Portsmouth England waiting to find out if weather would permit mooring or if we'd have to ride it out at sea. It was State 3 seas and for some reason a French trawler was out in a hurricane working. They hit us broadside, broke up, and had to be rescued by the French Coast Guard. Several officers lost their jobs and a few more had their careers ended.

    The point being that even though French fishermen were out in a hurricane putting others at risk when they were told to be in port, the fault was with the profession uniformed service - the Navy. It was our job to be in control of that situation and we failed.

    We were held to a higher standard and I think that has been forgotten in our culture. Our job is to be the anchor and bunker against harm and insanity. It doesn't mean coming home safe. It means accomplishing the mission and theirs is to "Protect and Serve". They failed.

    It's not one officers fault, although he's accountable too. It's a systemic issue and a mindset problem. Uniformed services are there to ensure the civilians, no matter how bad, don't come out of there in a body bag. Our cultural law enforcement mentality has shifted from that to selfish preservation. Broken system (snafu).
    MadFrenchieAsm0deuslaserit
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

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