Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Apple now requires games with paid loot boxes to publish the odds

QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,958
A lot of gamers hate loot boxes.  People have called for various regulations of them, up to and including banning them entirely.  But one of the simplest regulations is to merely require the games that have them to disclose the odds of getting the drop you want.  Apple has apparently done exactly that.

http://toucharcade.com/2017/12/21/apple-quietly-updated-the-app-store-review-guidelines-to-require-disclosure-of-loot-box-iap-odds/

Here's the document in question from Apple's web site:

https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/#in-app-purchase

And the critical quote:

"Apps offering “loot boxes” or other mechanisms that provide randomized virtual items for purchase must disclose the odds of receiving each type of item to customers prior to purchase."

Apple can impose that unilaterally, as they have the power to kick games off of their platform entirely.  Game console manufacturers could do the same thing if so inclined.  I'd like to see that mandated more widely.  While I'm often skeptical of the benefits of additional regulations, merely requiring that companies publish the odds of getting something that they're asking you to pay for a chance at winning without restricting what they can sell is a pretty weak requirement that isn't likely to impose much in the way of compliance costs.

I'm not saying that nothing beyond mandating disclosure should be done.  But I am saying that the law should at least mandate disclosure of the odds of whatever you're buying a chance at winning.
TorvalSlapshot1188IselinwingoodScotCalaruilConstantineMeruswandericaUngoodrodingoand 5 others.
«13

Comments

  • Superman0XSuperman0X Member RarePosts: 2,210
    This is likely similar to what we will start seeing for PC games as well.
    Torval
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,136
    edited December 2017
    OK, I pretty much dislike all things Apple, but this one I like.

    +1
    MadFrenchieSlapshot1188bartoni33NitemareMMOMrMelGibsoncameltosisLoke666ConstantineMerusAlBQuirkyrodingoand 1 other.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    It's about time we started catching up to Asia on this matter.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    I like the verbiage "Apps offering “loot boxes” or other mechanisms that provide randomized virtual items for purchase". I'd like to see the requirement for disclosure of odds eventually extend to any random reward mechanism gated by money, whether that's a microtransaction or a subscription.
    wingoodMrMelGibsonConstantineMerusrojoArcueidPhry
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,087
    Hallelujah 
    BruceYee

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • dave6660dave6660 Member UncommonPosts: 2,699
    I'm curious how they intend to enforce any degree of honesty about the given odds?  You know players are going to cry foul the first time they catch an unlucky streak.
    MrMelGibsonQuizzical

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    dave6660 said:
    I'm curious how they intend to enforce any degree of honesty about the given odds?  You know players are going to cry foul the first time they catch an unlucky streak.
    Good question. If it's honor system like then I don't see great results. If Apple can audit it at any time and there are serious consequences for lying then maybe it will work. If Apple can find a way to audit or check compliance randomly then maybe it will work.

    How can companies show compliance? How can it be verified and audited?
    MrMelGibson
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,273
    Apple wants to self regulate, they see the winds a shifting.

    Glad to see them take this step.
    MrMelGibson

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,273
    dave6660 said:
    I'm curious how they intend to enforce any degree of honesty about the given odds?  You know players are going to cry foul the first time they catch an unlucky streak.
    algorithms ;)
    MrMelGibsonPhry

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,025
    Let's hope Android market follows suit.  I've never owned any Apple product (Other than a cheap iPod mini I bought at a Bazaar in Iraq about 10 years ago lol). But this was a good move on their end.
    TorvallaseritMadFrenchiePhry
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,993
    Good news, but considering the average age a child in the UK gets a mobile phone is 10; I think a push to remove all "randomized virtual items" is needed.
    RhygarthPhry

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,958
    dave6660 said:
    I'm curious how they intend to enforce any degree of honesty about the given odds?  You know players are going to cry foul the first time they catch an unlucky streak.
    It should be pretty trivial for Apple to verify that odds have been posted.  What you're really getting at is how to verify that the odds posted are accurate.  You're right that that's harder to verify.  But a company that posts false odds has committed fraud and is in violation of existing laws.  Yes, they might not get caught, but if they do, they could be facing class action lawsuits, heavy fines, or even jail time.  One hopes that that would deter them from posting incorrect odds.

    Some obscure game with little revenue might well get away with posting incorrect odds.  But big, well-known games that bring in millions of dollars are far more likely to get caught if they try to cheat like that.
    Torval
  • CalaruilCalaruil Member UncommonPosts: 141
    about tie tbh
  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    I was never a big apple fan.  They made computers mainstream via smartphones and tablets.  After that games started going downhill.  My dislike of them started before that though.  Imagine if Apple had gotten their PCs out before Microsoft.  We should be thankful Bill Gates stole Steve Jobs idea.  If he didn't we would all have the same computer hardware and software.  It would be overpriced and locked down to however Apple wanted it (walled garden).  With that said they do make some good decisions to protect their customers and they do make easy to use products.
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,344
    It's interesting.  Hope steam follows.

    I'm not sure if apple put much effort on enforcing the laws though.  If apple really care, there won't be load of pokemon spinoff games which obviously is breaking copy right law.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    good move

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited December 2017
    AAAMEOW said:
    It's interesting.  Hope steam follows.

    I'm not sure if apple put much effort on enforcing the laws though.  If apple really care, there won't be load of pokemon spinoff games which obviously is breaking copy right law.
    I dont think Steam will

    Apple is more about 'curation' if you will. Steam is more about 'libertarianism'  for the lack of a better word in both cases.
    and to be fair for those who have issue with that approach (steams approach) they should in all fairness just use a different service

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,814
    This coming from the company who just got caught intentionally creating updates that make older iPhones slower.

    ........my heroes.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/21/technology/apple-slows-down-old-iphones/index.html
    MrMelGibson
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,551
    Do loot box buyers even care what the odds are? Isn't it like buying a lotto ticket?
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Tiamat64 said:
    It's about time we started catching up to Asia on this matter.
    I rather have we get rid of the whole loot box thing instead.  Telling the odds is a help but if you must sell items you can at least sell people the items they want instead of tons of junk.
    Herase
  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 993
    Do loot box buyers even care what the odds are? Isn't it like buying a lotto ticket?
    While overall I think it's a good move, but I agree with this. Just because you have the odds, it won't change much. Also in this case, apple can regulate the games on their platform to play fair, but who's going to regulate the AAA titles or other games?

    I can see them just manipulating it for their own gain tbh, after what Bungie did with XP. Tell people it's 2% drop, get people excited and buying when actually drop is drastically less than that.

    Hopefully Sony, Microsoft and steam do the same, then maybe it can work.



    Overall on the whole topic of lootboxes, that they're asking them to post odds, for me just further solidifies that it's gambling.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 6,152
    And "iPhone, iPad" games get regulated... 6.5 years after opening... Yea mobile gaming?

    Better late than never? Now if PC games could do something.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    It's window dressing. The people they're pretending to protect will never look at the odds. The odds will be in the fine print and there will be a disclaimer that the odds are only approximate. They may not even put the odds in the game but just provide a link to a website with the odds buried somewhere at the bottom.  

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    It's window dressing. The people they're pretending to protect will never look at the odds. The odds will be in the fine print and there will be a disclaimer that the odds are only approximate. They may not even put the odds in the game but just provide a link to a website with the odds buried somewhere at the bottom.  
    Eh, if it manages to make even 1% of the gambling addicted portion of the playerbase stop and reconsider what they're doing, it was worth it, I say.
    MrMelGibson
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,338
    Tiamat64 said:
    It's window dressing. The people they're pretending to protect will never look at the odds. The odds will be in the fine print and there will be a disclaimer that the odds are only approximate. They may not even put the odds in the game but just provide a link to a website with the odds buried somewhere at the bottom.  
    Eh, if it manages to make even 1% of the gambling addicted portion of the playerbase stop and reconsider what they're doing, it was worth it, I say.
    If someone is already addicted, he won't stop that easily.

    But I think it'll allow people who aren't addicted to make better decisions and reduce further addictions.
    Torval
     
Sign In or Register to comment.