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Pre-Alpha Starts Today!

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  • TwystedWizTwystedWiz Member UncommonPosts: 175
    Mendel said:
    Question:

    Have there been any recent pre-launch testing periods where the test characters were actually removed upon release?

    My impression is that entirely too many players are simply using the alpha, beta, whatever testing phase as an early launch, and the game companies are entirely okay with that.  They are more worried about establishing their characters and getting them progressed than actually finding and reporting issues.  Without a server wipe, is this really a test, or merely allowing paying players to romp around before the game is finished?  What, if anything, will VR be doing to ensure that the testers are actually testing?

    For the record, I hope that the people who have chosen to pay for this pre-alpha access are committed to testing, and not just playing the game early.
    Impressions are not facts.  Research VR's position on early start for ROtF.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,640
    Mendel said:
    Question:

    Have there been any recent pre-launch testing periods where the test characters were actually removed upon release?


    Yes! I believe Lord of the Rings Online characters were wiped. I "think" World of Warcraft characters were wiped as I was in a beta and the character was gone at launch (not that I played it a lot at launch ... when I could get in). I believe also Aion.

    I think Archlord characters were wiped. Well, let's just say I played several mmorpg's pre launch were the characters were wiped. Then, slowly, some companies made it so that if you paid for Beta access you could keep your character at launch.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
    SovrathTwystedWizjimmywolfMrMelGibsonglakuns


  • GeekyGeeky Member UncommonPosts: 406
    Dullahan said:
    The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
    Shroud of the Avatar.
    ManWithNoTan
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    Mendel said:
    Question:

    Have there been any recent pre-launch testing periods where the test characters were actually removed upon release?

    My impression is that entirely too many players are simply using the alpha, beta, whatever testing phase as an early launch, and the game companies are entirely okay with that.  They are more worried about establishing their characters and getting them progressed than actually finding and reporting issues.  Without a server wipe, is this really a test, or merely allowing paying players to romp around before the game is finished?  What, if anything, will VR be doing to ensure that the testers are actually testing?

    For the record, I hope that the people who have chosen to pay for this pre-alpha access are committed to testing, and not just playing the game early.
    Impressions are not facts.  Research VR's position on early start for ROtF.
    I would not be surprised if a large number of Pantheon testers are collecting / mining data for various 3rd party web sites.  Those 'testers' are there for their own benefit, and the $1000 cost for this access is easily deductible as a business expense in those cases.  So, pardon me for being cautious about the thoroughness of testing.  MMORPGs don't have a particularly good record in that regard, based on the number of bugs released in the past 20 years.

    As for VR's position, there is an awful lot of 'we want to' and 'we intend to', and almost no 'we did/ have done' -- words aren't actions.   Impressions aren't facts, they are opinions, in this case, my opinions.  If they follow through on the intentions, then and only then will the words expressing these intentions become factual statements.  You are, of course, free to accept the developers words at face value.  I'm a bit more skeptical about claims made about any unfinished project.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • KrimzinKrimzin Member UncommonPosts: 687
    Brad McQuaid is not going to let someone have an advantage. Everything he says is they are building a community not a game. If people in the community have an unfair advantage it starts the community off on the wrong foot. Pre Alpha is simply a way to build hype. It lets people with deep pockets see the game early, nothing more. You can get into Alpha and beta for a low cost. Personally pre alpha wasn't worth $1000. $350 for Alpha/Beta is acceptable to me. So I don't mind waiting. I don't think the differences are that drastic between pre-alpha and alpha.

    SnackMasterBglakuns

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,685
    $350 is acceptable for a decent size TV, ridiculous to beta test a game...I remember when we were doing them the favor to test their games for free, now they want to charge an arm and a leg for us to test bad games.
    glakuns
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,010
    Sovrath said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    LeFantome said:
    Raxeon said:
    what an absurd price to get into pre alpha

    and they used to pay people to test their game.  How stupid customers can be............
    I don't view this tier as "customers" but rather small time investors. More like game enthusiasts who are tired of the same crap MMOs put out by AAA companies, year after year after year. I guess people who keep buying rehashed content with a different label aren't stupid?
    I just don't understand why this isn't clear.

    Someone gives 1000+ dollars to help develop the game why wouldn't they be given access to pre-Alpha/Alpah?


    It's not puzzling at all. Gamers give passes to stuff they like and are unforgivingly critical of stuff they don't. Thing are filtered through these two different lenses.

    People that take pot shots at this game and then in the next thread explain why it's okay in their game. Some of the people in this thread have and will do the same thing to another game in another thread.

    So the whales in this game are loved and described as something other than whales. Whales in other games are idiots who spend thousands of dollars propping up a game. You know if someone only read this post they probably wouldn't even know which game we're talking about because it's so prevalent.

    Personally I think that it is ridiculous and a mistake, but it's not my project and I don't have any problem with people choosing to run it that way. Just like I love ESO but think the $125 house is idiotic like the $100 Rift horse, or locking content behind a sub or loot crate. We're still all riding that train full steam ahead and not even considering what all that means or that it might mean something.

    Maybe I'm out of touch and completely wrong, but my spidey sense tingles a little at the ecosystem. It is not stable and it appears to moving in an unsustainable direction. Just a thought.
    blueturtle13MrMelGibsonglakuns
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  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,115
    What a missed opportunity... they could have sold pre-pre-alpha for 2k!
    MrMelGibsonglakuns

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

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  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited December 2017
    Torval said:

    It's not puzzling at all. Gamers give passes to stuff they like and are unforgivingly critical of stuff they don't. Thing are filtered through these two different lenses.

    People that take pot shots at this game and then in the next thread explain why it's okay in their game. Some of the people in this thread have and will do the same thing to another game in another thread.
    I personally don't understand why people care what other people do with their money, as long as it doesn't negatively affect you. I can only imagine it's envy. Whales in a f2p game are a far cry from someone who willingly donates money to help something they want be created. In a f2p game it offers an unfair advantage. That is not the case here.

    Torval said:
    So the whales in this game are loved and described as something other than whales. Whales in other games are idiots who spend thousands of dollars propping up a game. You know if someone only read this post they probably wouldn't even know which game we're talking about because it's so prevalent.

    Personally I think that it is ridiculous and a mistake, but it's not my project and I don't have any problem with people choosing to run it that way. Just like I love ESO but think the $125 house is idiotic like the $100 Rift horse, or locking content behind a sub or loot crate. We're still all riding that train full steam ahead and not even considering what all that means or that it might mean something.

    Maybe I'm out of touch and completely wrong, but my spidey sense tingles a little at the ecosystem. It is not stable and it appears to moving in an unsustainable direction. Just a thought.

    Ideally games will be made again that are popular enough on their own merit without needing shake down one's players or offer in game advantages. That is what I hope comes of this current batch of indie games. Otherwise, things will just continue to trend down. Even if the economy is picking up, nobody is going to throw money away cloning games that struggle on cash shop models.
    Torvaldcutbi001Rhoklaw


  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,697
    I don't get it why people still don't get it. 

    No one is charging you any amount to test their game. They are giving access to their top tier backers. Let's explore possible scenarios that has upset people: 

    A) You are a top tier backer, and you are pissed off because not only you had to pay them money to make this game, but now you are forced to test as well. 

    B) You are a professional tester, and people paying to test games has rendered your job pointless. 

    C) You are worried that developers don't hire professional testers now that they got people to test their games so you'd end up buying an untested product. Well any developer could open the gates and have people to test their games for free. But any developer with a shred of intelligence understands the difference between a professional tester and a casual player. That's why they'd only do this to stress test their product. Whether and when they hire professionals is a matter of budget and schedule. Also there has been an endless amount of AAA products which had no sort of "early-access" whatsoever and ended up having more bugs than an ant colony upon release. 

    D) You think because you have been eating food all your life, new restaurants should send you free food in exchange for your insightful feedback. 

    Running out of imagination and crazy here, anyone else cares to pop-in?
    KyleranlahnmirSovrathMrMelGibsondcutbi001Rhoklawglakuns
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  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    Not sure what people are upset about either.  I get people being like 'that's crazy to pay that money just to test the game' argument.  I don't get people caring if others do.  It literally has zero impact on you.  When the game launches it will either be awesome or it won't.  You can decide for yourself.  As for a trend in the gaming industry, this game is not a AAA big budget game.  It's dependent on crowd forging.  They have tiers on their site much like Kickstarter.  If people choose to support the game at a certain level for the privilege of helping them make the game at an early stage, that's their decision.

    And I would add that it looks like it's pretty successful for them based on the few posts I'm seeing in the forums over there.  Looks like their CS team is overwhelmed (understaffed?) to handle all the late pledges. 
    SovrathDullahanMrMelGibsondcutbi001Kiori001RhoklawTamanous
  • KumaponKumapon Member RarePosts: 1,345
    Dullahan said:
    The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
    I remember back in the old days, there never used to be a wipe. I tested EQ and was able to keep my character in retail. 

    Also for some reason it is tradition to not wipe a alpha/beta character over in Korea, and they seem fine with that. 
    Mendelsvannglakuns
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,826
    LeFantome said:
    Raxeon said:
    what an absurd price to get into pre alpha

    and they used to pay people to test their game.  How stupid customers can be............
    And then everyone wonders why these games suck when they release........

    As if this is a proper alpha/beta test.
  • JunglecharlyJunglecharly Member UncommonPosts: 167
    I know it might sound preachy but i do not care about pre-alpha, it is just the prequel. I'll eat my pretzel while i make my preparations for post-launch of the premium prepaid pre-beta. I predict a preemptive riot
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Kumapon said:
    Dullahan said:
    The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
    I remember back in the old days, there never used to be a wipe. I tested EQ and was able to keep my character in retail. 

    Also for some reason it is tradition to not wipe a alpha/beta character over in Korea, and they seem fine with that. 
    Funny thing, i remember back in the 'old days' when developers had to pay players to 'test' games that were even in alpha phase, the ridiculousness of someone buying into a game that is 'pre alpha' literally beggars belief. :o
    Mendel
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,010
    Phry said:
    Kumapon said:
    Dullahan said:
    The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
    I remember back in the old days, there never used to be a wipe. I tested EQ and was able to keep my character in retail. 

    Also for some reason it is tradition to not wipe a alpha/beta character over in Korea, and they seem fine with that. 
    Funny thing, i remember back in the 'old days' when developers had to pay players to 'test' games that were even in alpha phase, the ridiculousness of someone buying into a game that is 'pre alpha' literally beggars belief. :o
    When did they ever pay testers that weren't hired or contracted? That sort of thing requires reporting income for taxing.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

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  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,284
    edited December 2017
    This is one of the prices people have to pay for a crowdfunded project. Expecting anything less is pretty naive. That said, if they don't expand their testing pool in alpha and beta then it'll be an obvious issue if care is being tended to this game or just another cash grab like say Archeage. Only time will tell when it gets to those points. The game has potential but the market will be weak for this title especially with WoW Classic probably going to be around when this game gets serious. People can argue that the 2 titles address separate hardcore markets but most forget that mmorpgs are a really niche market compared to other gaming genres, so its already going to be stretching a market that is already thin. Of course I'll try this title and even Ashes, but the future will always be up in the air.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    No such thing as a pre-alpha!  So many of you are so gullible.  
    bentrim
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Kumapon said:
    Dullahan said:
    The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
    I remember back in the old days, there never used to be a wipe. I tested EQ and was able to keep my character in retail. 

    Also for some reason it is tradition to not wipe a alpha/beta character over in Korea, and they seem fine with that. 
    You remember incorrectly.
    svannXthosSlyLoK


  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,734
    Ozmodan said:
    No such thing as a pre-alpha!  So many of you are so gullible.  

    Well, they are doing it, and some people are testing it.  I guess we are supposed to believe it is all lies?!
  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,734
    LeFantome said:
    Raxeon said:
    what an absurd price to get into pre alpha

    and they used to pay people to test their game.  How stupid customers can be............
    And then everyone wonders why these games suck when they release........

    As if this is a proper alpha/beta test.

    They are a indie studio, I would rather they spend money on making the game personally, than hiring some guys to help test what is still being made.

    If someone paid $1000, I would imagine they are either well off to where it is no big deal, or they are really into this concept, and if so, they probably care more than some random guy.

    Sure, it would be nice if they had more money to make the game, but it is what it is, and I want the money put into the game at this point.  Maybe if they get enough interest in a beta phase (and they end up with extra money, either investor or people paying to get in), they could hire someone, but it doesn't make much sense to me in pre-alpha....maybe when most systems are in and things are being finalized.  They are still building much of the game, at this point.
    Rhoklaw
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,372
    Xthos said:
    Ozmodan said:
    No such thing as a pre-alpha!  So many of you are so gullible.  

    Well, they are doing it, and some people are testing it.  I guess we are supposed to believe it is all lies?!
    Some people don't know what they are talking about.

    "A development status given to a program or application that is usually not feature complete, and is not usually released to the public. Developers are usually still deciding on what features the program should have at this status. This status comes before the alpha version, and is the first status given to a program."

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,874
    Yes because those dumb enough to hand over free money are the ones i want testing games.
    As to not existing,no problem here,you have NO idea what doesn't exist ,since it doesn't exist,so nobody is losing anything.


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,115
    Kyleran said:
    Xthos said:
    Ozmodan said:
    No such thing as a pre-alpha!  So many of you are so gullible.  

    Well, they are doing it, and some people are testing it.  I guess we are supposed to believe it is all lies?!
    Some people don't know what they are talking about.

    "A development status given to a program or application that is usually not feature complete, and is not usually released to the public. Developers are usually still deciding on what features the program should have at this status. This status comes before the alpha version, and is the first status given to a program."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle

    Yeah and as soon as they start formal testing it's in alpha.

    There is some pretty obvious ignorance going on regarding the software release life cycle.

    Shaighglakuns

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

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