Regulating isn't necessary. Let the free market do it's job. If you remove moral hazard people become infantilized and will always need to be bailed out. People need to learn about responsibilities and consequences. You can't base your society on protecting people from their own stupidity. The only time you need to intervene is when there is a misrepresentation.
"The burned hand teaches best. After that, advice about fire goes to the heart.” ~ J.R.R. Tolkien
wrong way you perceive that tolkien quote....
if i present you with a cauldron of fire and you put your hand in you learn why not to do as i said right.....previous until then you carry on with a flare of ignorance best supported by you paying for loot box after loot box cause there is no fire burning you....until that wallet catches fire or your life catches fire ....drugs , gambling alcohol and addiction in general are NOT something you get BURNT BADLY RIGHT AWAY AND STAY AWAY FROM....you get a high from gambling and drugs and such thus you want more and more and more at an ILLOGICAL COST to one self thus the logic of the burning hand might not even be relevant....a drug add ct for a fix might just let you burn his hand....just as someone with bad gambling habit you might say let me light my lighter on your hand and ill give ya ten bucks for that gambling he might do it/////
I'm saying that 4k hours of grind in two different games isn't differentiated by personal appeal to the skinner box mechanism. And moreover that if regulation comes in, it will eventually get to that core issue because complaints won't stop, and it will affect much more than loot-crates, for better or worse. The US is a flawed corrupt democratic repbulic and I expect that at some point those regulations we loved, will be turned into something draconian we despise when some new fat-mouthed baboon weasels their way into office with a particularly nasty agenda. Don't say it can't happen.
the usa is not the only nation on earth.....what creates balance is that you'd have ot have every nation have all baboons at same time .....and its not quite ever happened yet there are always nations that step up ...see the ones that put forth as investigations.....first.
Take the racing game for example. Those 500 laps if, they are on the same course and against the same cars, can be remarkably tedious and superfluous to the point of killing all value to playing the game beyond maybe ten rounds. An endurance race where there is nothing to do for an extended period but to repeat the same motions after the unpredictably is gone rapidly loses entertainment value with most people. The only reason to endure would then be because they perceive the reward to be big enough.
NASCAR called... they have a different take as do their millions of fans.
MMORPGs are a type of game where the character journey IS the experience. Just like in NASCAR they are going to go around the very same oval 500 times. It's not for everyone (I don't watch NASCAR), but the idea of buying your way to the 250th lap because it "can be remarkable tedious" is silly. Going around the track 500 times IS the game. If you don;t like that then play another game.
That's incorrect, your NASCAR analogy has a lot of missing components as for one, they don't do 500 laps, they do at most 200 (Daytona 500 is a 500 mile race, not 500 lap). Even then, they break up the laps (where they break up into stages) and the overall scoring is completed at the halfway (250 miles). NASCAR may still be a very tedious sport, but they don't adhere to the same principles you are trying to suggest of them and they do actually take care to make the sport more interesting via a lot of side activity for the fans so they aren't just watching cars drive in a circle.
For the driver it's again broken up quite a lot so that they aren't driving for 200 laps on-end. The break up in laps and stages allows the driver to stop and unwind for a bit before the next stage while their team services the car. They are very intentionally mitigating the tedium and stress on the driver where they can.
The same cannot be said of MMOs, where the tedium is intentionally put in the way of the consumer instead. The "journey" is itself being impeded by obstacles ("you must be X level" "you must complete X side objectives" "your gear score must be X") that often directly impedes players following a game's narrative in a seamless manner. Those obstacles are a very artificial part of the user experience at best, and most of the time not intended to be fun, but to be a reason to invest in the game to get to the fun.
You're missing the point. The point is that the conditions are the same for every player. You can't buy your way to skip the "tedious" parts, or start halfway through the race.
That's what happens when you buy advantages in MMORPGS. You are bypassing the game. What happens in a game world should be self contained in that game world.
Buying advantages changes and cheapens the experience of actually playing the game.
It's why I didn't buy SWBF2 this year and it's why millions of other people complained enough to cost EA $3,000,000,000 in valuation. Even if temporary... it's still a staggering impact.
People are starting to wake up. More are choosing the Red Pill over the Blue Pill of obliviousness.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Take the racing game for example. Those 500 laps if, they are on the same course and against the same cars, can be remarkably tedious and superfluous to the point of killing all value to playing the game beyond maybe ten rounds. An endurance race where there is nothing to do for an extended period but to repeat the same motions after the unpredictably is gone rapidly loses entertainment value with most people. The only reason to endure would then be because they perceive the reward to be big enough.
NASCAR called... they have a different take as do their millions of fans.
MMORPGs are a type of game where the character journey IS the experience. Just like in NASCAR they are going to go around the very same oval 500 times. It's not for everyone (I don't watch NASCAR), but the idea of buying your way to the 250th lap because it "can be remarkable tedious" is silly. Going around the track 500 times IS the game. If you don;t like that then play another game.
That's incorrect, your NASCAR analogy has a lot of missing components as for one, they don't do 500 laps, they do at most 200 (Daytona 500 is a 500 mile race, not 500 lap). Even then, they break up the laps (where they break up into stages) and the overall scoring is completed at the halfway (250 miles). NASCAR may still be a very tedious sport, but they don't adhere to the same principles you are trying to suggest of them and they do actually take care to make the sport more interesting via a lot of side activity for the fans so they aren't just watching cars drive in a circle.
For the driver it's again broken up quite a lot so that they aren't driving for 200 laps on-end. The break up in laps and stages allows the driver to stop and unwind for a bit before the next stage while their team services the car. They are very intentionally mitigating the tedium and stress on the driver where they can.
The same cannot be said of MMOs, where the tedium is intentionally put in the way of the consumer instead. The "journey" is itself being impeded by obstacles ("you must be X level" "you must complete X side objectives" "your gear score must be X") that often directly impedes players following a game's narrative in a seamless manner. Those obstacles are a very artificial part of the user experience at best, and most of the time not intended to be fun, but to be a reason to invest in the game to get to the fun.
started to read and got to part whereyou nit picked on the lap count....so what its not 200 he said....ok
lets have em say you can just pay to get past 50 laps a t a time geee the company with most cash wins everyone pays to come and after they get in they announce winner and every one leaves >>>>>SOOOO MUCH FUN...
ugh
games are about being entertained for a time....and if you don't have the time play a different style a game that doesnt require so much time.
perhaps we need EA to come out and say there games are now gonna cost 200$ + micro transactions and loot boxes and that they are for the stinking filthy rich and will require photo id to be sent to the game and a video transmission to you so they can verify before you play....
thats the game you want with all the worlds rich competing for whose got the biggest epenis of a wallet
That's incorrect, your NASCAR analogy has a lot of missing components as for one, they don't do 500 laps, they do at most 200 (Daytona 500 is a 500 mile race, not 500 lap). Even then, they break up the laps (where they break up into stages) and the overall scoring is completed at the halfway (250 miles). NASCAR may still be a very tedious sport, but they don't adhere to the same principles you are trying to suggest of them and they do actually take care to make the sport more interesting via a lot of side activity for the fans so they aren't just watching cars drive in a circle.
For the driver it's again broken up quite a lot so that they aren't driving for 200 laps on-end. The break up in laps and stages allows the driver to stop and unwind for a bit before the next stage while their team services the car. They are very intentionally mitigating the tedium and stress on the driver where they can.
The same cannot be said of MMOs, where the tedium is intentionally put in the way of the consumer instead. The "journey" is itself being impeded by obstacles ("you must be X level" "you must complete X side objectives" "your gear score must be X") that often directly impedes players following a game's narrative in a seamless manner. Those obstacles are a very artificial part of the user experience at best, and most of the time not intended to be fun, but to be a reason to invest in the game to get to the fun.
You're missing the point. The point is that the conditions are the same for every player. You can't buy your way to skip the "tedious" parts, or start halfway through the race.
That's what happens when you buy advantages in MMORPGS. You are bypassing the game. What happens in a game world should be self contained in that game world.
Buying advantages changes and cheapens the experience of actually playing the game.
It's why I didn't buy SWBF2 this year and it's why millions of other people complained enough to cost EA $3,000,000,000 in valuation. Even if temporary... it's still a staggering impact.
People are starting to wake up. More are choosing the Red Pill over the Blue Pill of obliviousness.
Then what was the point of your statement as it sound like you obtusely agreeing, yet saying you disagree.
That even playing field only exists if the devs don't tamper with the fundamental basis. When they implement a cash shop and put things into it, they have not designed the game without accounting for the impact it will have on play. That's where the incentives to use them are implemented, in the gameplay.
That's also where the fundamental user experience gets impeded by marketing strategies that are used to draw value to those cash shop items. Hence, the grind is an intentional obstruction of the gameplay not a byproduct. If they removed the ability to pay money for items to bypass the tedium they implemented, then they would also be removing the reason for having implemented that tedium.
It's again the point of my addressing your example as well. Even in things like NACSAR they have tried to minimize the tedium where they can, the "grind" left there is just a fundamental byproduct of the experience. In a game like what we've discussed it's inverse, where the tedium has been intentionally added into the experience where it didn't need to be, in order to drive incentive of cash sales to bypass it in order to return to the core user experience.
Self-regulation is a joke. The very people who have a financial stake in the thing being regulated should not be in charge of regulating that thing.
Íf people stopped buying the crap in enough numbers it would work. Of course we might as well wish for world peace.
Exactly, people of all types continue to buy in (addictions not withstanding)... I'm just glad this guy seems to get it, this is something companies as well as consumers need to work out on their own. As well as parents need to parent (where kids come into play)... Don't expect a \government to play the role of nanny to you or your child...
so what your both saying is a boycott has failed , hat regulation seems it be the path then....
perhaps pretty good gaming ought it find a few more stories of a 13 year old kid spending 13000 dollars on loot boxes.....and ya should hear the things his mom tried to do to help or stop this...
Take the racing game for example. Those 500 laps if, they are on the same course and against the same cars, can be remarkably tedious and superfluous to the point of killing all value to playing the game beyond maybe ten rounds. An endurance race where there is nothing to do for an extended period but to repeat the same motions after the unpredictably is gone rapidly loses entertainment value with most people. The only reason to endure would then be because they perceive the reward to be big enough.
NASCAR called... they have a different take as do their millions of fans.
MMORPGs are a type of game where the character journey IS the experience. Just like in NASCAR they are going to go around the very same oval 500 times. It's not for everyone (I don't watch NASCAR), but the idea of buying your way to the 250th lap because it "can be remarkable tedious" is silly. Going around the track 500 times IS the game. If you don;t like that then play another game.
That's incorrect, your NASCAR analogy has a lot of missing components as for one, they don't do 500 laps, they do at most 200 (Daytona 500 is a 500 mile race, not 500 lap). Even then, they break up the laps (where they break up into stages) and the overall scoring is completed at the halfway (250 miles). NASCAR may still be a very tedious sport, but they don't adhere to the same principles you are trying to suggest of them and they do actually take care to make the sport more interesting via a lot of side activity for the fans so they aren't just watching cars drive in a circle.
For the driver it's again broken up quite a lot so that they aren't driving for 200 laps on-end. The break up in laps and stages allows the driver to stop and unwind for a bit before the next stage while their team services the car. They are very intentionally mitigating the tedium and stress on the driver where they can.
The same cannot be said of MMOs, where the tedium is intentionally put in the way of the consumer instead. The "journey" is itself being impeded by obstacles ("you must be X level" "you must complete X side objectives" "your gear score must be X") that often directly impedes players following a game's narrative in a seamless manner. Those obstacles are a very artificial part of the user experience at best, and most of the time not intended to be fun, but to be a reason to invest in the game to get to the fun.
started to read and got to part whereyou nit picked on the lap count....so what its not 200 he said....ok
lets have em say you can just pay to get past 50 laps a t a time geee the company with most cash wins everyone pays to come and after they get in they announce winner and every one leaves >>>>>SOOOO MUCH FUN...
ugh
games are about being entertained for a time....and if you don't have the time play a different style a game that doesnt require so much time.
perhaps we need EA to come out and say there games are now gonna cost 200$ + micro transactions and loot boxes and that they are for the stinking filthy rich and will require photo id to be sent to the game and a video transmission to you so they can verify before you play....
thats the game you want with all the worlds rich competing for whose got the biggest epenis of a wallet
Then you intentionally chose to miss the entire logic of the post and have chosen to agree with the sentiment of what I said while ranting at me at me as if you don't.
Yes and that person could be easily helped, unlike real chemical based dependencies, there are plenty of positive replacements for such "addictions". People are forgetting many are simply addicted to games as a whole, regardless of any MT's involved, and plenty are deeply effected by it. Yet I see no one calling for a regulation on that...
Which I'd bet is because they themselves like games... Funny how that works isn't it... but since they don't like a loot box, well regulate that...
It's the loot boxes being used on top of predatory tactics pushing players to use them.
Thinking the industry can self-regulate on that is ignoring the current reality.
What business practice isn't predatory? Companies are pushing people to buy anything and everything.
And what is the current reality, not the one formed by your opinion, but based on facts and hard evidence? And please don't come back with isolated cases, or opinion pieces in gaming mags formed from those isolated cases......
Hrmmmm, "pushing" be careful cause there are businesses that are regulated in some nations and they can't PUSH as you subscribe too. We have regulations on all kinds a business practices and they are all done to "regulate" how a business may pursue that almighty buck , and every nations got its own views and the usa model dare i say it isn't one that is the best at being CONSUMER FRIENDLY....UNLESS YOU have lots of the green backs.
I can name right quickly funeral homes as one. Also your last paragraph makes itself irrelevant by asking a question then removing all the ways anyone could give you and evidence/answers. how many cases of loot box kids spending way more then they should is enough for you? 2 5 10 10000 does the person responding need to spend his or her life knowing and having experienced these games to do that much FOR YOU NOT TO SEE THE BLATANTLY obvious?
As a person being asked to be a disability advocate....tell me how many cases you wish and pm me a personal email and ill spend a whole month sending you case after case with the persons permission .....hope your email provider has lots a space mmmmk.
At no point in human history where something has been asked to be self regulated, has it ever happened. Can you imagine a meeting where the CEO has to tell his employees to stop it, they are making too much money...lol.
Making too much money isn't a crime or a problem in itself. Our government (in the US) isn't in the habit of stepping in unless there is hard evidence they need to, not in the area of corporate profits, or free enterprise anyway.
When the government says self regulate, what they're really saying is take responsibility for your own life decisions. As well as take responsibility for your own problems (if you have a problem own it, and seek help, if a loved one does help them by convincing them to seek help).
It's highly improbable that stance will change unless real evidence is presented that this is a widespread problem, reddit threads and the like are not hard evidence. It's mostly sensationalizing TBH.
You're saying this (bolded part) as though these practices are not targeting a vulnerable population, children. This isn't a matter of simply gaining some self-control. This is a population that, for a majority, is not yet equipped to handle the predatory marketing being thrown at them.
marketing and gambling is not the same thing though and that is where people are getting confused.
The physical act of gambling is likely just fine, but the manipulation in advertising on the other hand is a different ball game.
Having said all that, I really wish people would STOP using the kids as an excuse to make an argument for something they themselves want to impose on everyone. The whole 'think about the childern' meme is old and lame
So, we should stop thinking about the children, why? Because you're tired of trying to argue against it? It's a valid argument.
we should stop thinking about the childern and start being more honest.
I dont believe for a second anyone making these arguements about 'think about the childern' actually give a damn about that. They want all paid lootboxes gone, peroid, by any means. they dont give a fuck about the kids...lets get real here, MMORPG posters are not a bunch of concern moms,...give me a fucking break
That's tragic. You can't even imagine the possibility of someone thinking about the impact something has on kids without it having a selfish motivation. I assure you, that's my sole thought with that argument. Loot boxes impact me very little. I don't buy them, and if I have an urge to it's extremely fleeting.
agreed you can look at my posting history to see i dont post very much....but when it can matter ...i will. even if a majority here really dont care about the people these loot boxes have caused grief to for spending due to addiction, we can agree its not COOL ....like lets get mroe real then WHY THE FUCK ARE CARDS IN A STAR WARS GAME , A CAR GAME and PALLADIN coming soon....
CARDS you tards doing this might a put a wookies head and it might a flew a lil easier. thats how boneheaded this all is and CARDS IN A SOCCER GAME? CARDS IN THIS CARDS IN THAT
i think of cards and i immedialty think gambling like poker...no offense but think when you get dipshtted no minded politicians on this
and some one keeps repeatin LOOT CARDS instead a loot boxes
We have all kinds of laws and regulations protecting children, despite the parents wishes. Why should this be different?
That's because those areas have been proven to be problematic, as well as unsuitable for children. That said it's unlikely any kind of game would be deemed that, at most they'd be just like every other entertainment product, a recommended age range yet up to the discretion of the parent, not a law against kids partaking at all.
ALSO , its becase not all parents actually ..ya know parent properly and to ensure at least a fair chance for every kid ...some base laws are required. NO BEATING THE SHIT OUT OF ONES KIDS ....and it goes on from there....
im sure if you local govt had knowledge you had your 12 year old sit with you and the boys every night gambling they might even consider taking your kid from you as an UNFIT PARENT..
but its ok for EA and others to put it in games meant for kids? nope should get a R rating for adults only or not do it.
That's incorrect, your NASCAR analogy has a lot of missing components as for one, they don't do 500 laps, they do at most 200 (Daytona 500 is a 500 mile race, not 500 lap). Even then, they break up the laps (where they break up into stages) and the overall scoring is completed at the halfway (250 miles). NASCAR may still be a very tedious sport, but they don't adhere to the same principles you are trying to suggest of them and they do actually take care to make the sport more interesting via a lot of side activity for the fans so they aren't just watching cars drive in a circle.
For the driver it's again broken up quite a lot so that they aren't driving for 200 laps on-end. The break up in laps and stages allows the driver to stop and unwind for a bit before the next stage while their team services the car. They are very intentionally mitigating the tedium and stress on the driver where they can.
The same cannot be said of MMOs, where the tedium is intentionally put in the way of the consumer instead. The "journey" is itself being impeded by obstacles ("you must be X level" "you must complete X side objectives" "your gear score must be X") that often directly impedes players following a game's narrative in a seamless manner. Those obstacles are a very artificial part of the user experience at best, and most of the time not intended to be fun, but to be a reason to invest in the game to get to the fun.
You're missing the point. The point is that the conditions are the same for every player. You can't buy your way to skip the "tedious" parts, or start halfway through the race.
That's what happens when you buy advantages in MMORPGS. You are bypassing the game. What happens in a game world should be self contained in that game world.
Buying advantages changes and cheapens the experience of actually playing the game.
It's why I didn't buy SWBF2 this year and it's why millions of other people complained enough to cost EA $3,000,000,000 in valuation. Even if temporary... it's still a staggering impact.
People are starting to wake up. More are choosing the Red Pill over the Blue Pill of obliviousness.
Then what was the point of your statement as it sound like you obtusely agreeing, yet saying you disagree.
That even playing field only exists if the devs don't tamper with the fundamental basis. When they implement a cash shop and put things into it, they have not designed the game without accounting for the impact it will have on play. That's where the incentives to use them are implemented, in the gameplay.
That's also where the fundamental user experience gets impeded by marketing strategies that are used to draw value to those cash shop items. Hence, the grind is an intentional obstruction of the gameplay not a byproduct. If they removed the ability to pay money for items to bypass the tedium they implemented, then they would also be removing the reason for having implemented that tedium.
It's again the point of my addressing your example as well. Even in things like NACSAR they have tried to minimize the tedium where they can, the "grind" left there is just a fundamental byproduct of the experience. In a game like what we've discussed it's inverse, where the tedium has been intentionally added into the experience where it didn't need to be, in order to drive incentive of cash sales to bypass it in order to return to the core user experience.
You hit it thanks for makign it obvious...THERE SHOULD BE NO CASH SHOP... and if yo uwant online play you code in like battlefront 2005 the ability to host your own servers....people will do it as long as they see fun in it...
...and ya know what 2005's still going and people are hosting on home servers and even paid ones.
NO WAYYYYY.....rofl you all forget steam has that game and i on reddits lil ea thread started a liil revolution that id host all weekend long one server off my home pc ...had a blast ....and i didnt have to grind 4000 hrs to play vader LOL
At no point in human history where something has been asked to be self regulated, has it ever happened. Can you imagine a meeting where the CEO has to tell his employees to stop it, they are making too much money...lol.
Making too much money isn't a crime or a problem in itself. Our government (in the US) isn't in the habit of stepping in unless there is hard evidence they need to, not in the area of corporate profits, or free enterprise anyway.
When the government says self regulate, what they're really saying is take responsibility for your own life decisions. As well as take responsibility for your own problems (if you have a problem own it, and seek help, if a loved one does help them by convincing them to seek help).
It's highly improbable that stance will change unless real evidence is presented that this is a widespread problem, reddit threads and the like are not hard evidence. It's mostly sensationalizing TBH.
You're saying this (bolded part) as though these practices are not targeting a vulnerable population, children. This isn't a matter of simply gaining some self-control. This is a population that, for a majority, is not yet equipped to handle the predatory marketing being thrown at them.
marketing and gambling is not the same thing though and that is where people are getting confused.
The physical act of gambling is likely just fine, but the manipulation in advertising on the other hand is a different ball game.
Having said all that, I really wish people would STOP using the kids as an excuse to make an argument for something they themselves want to impose on everyone. The whole 'think about the childern' meme is old and lame
So, we should stop thinking about the children, why? Because you're tired of trying to argue against it? It's a valid argument.
we should stop thinking about the childern and start being more honest.
I dont believe for a second anyone making these arguements about 'think about the childern' actually give a damn about that. They want all paid lootboxes gone, peroid, by any means. they dont give a fuck about the kids...lets get real here, MMORPG posters are not a bunch of concern moms,...give me a fucking break
You see i actually give a shit about children and those with unhealthy spending habits because of addiction inducing practices.
Why?
Because personally this problem is not mine. I dont buy lootboxes and i detest them. They should never be introduced. Because of that they are designed to prey on people and manipulate them to throw money at the company at the unhealthy ratios. Because they muddled the game progression.
Sure, children is not the ONLY concern but not everyone is such a tough macho as you on the net. Be a little more self absorbed k?
well I dont believe you.
but that aside, WORK is addictive. what people dont understand and thus use it as a political football to push their agenda is that PEOPLE have addictive personalities and they will be addicted to ANYTHING that gives domaine. but wait for it....domaine a good TV show gives domaine.
If there are predatory designs intended to trigger addictive behaviors then they run way deeper than "loot crates". A lot of game design is built around an operant conditioning system (skinner box) or similar carrot + chase scenarios. These by nature prey on addictive and obsessive personalities like the completionist.
It's a bit ironic because we're on MMORPG.com talking about predatory carrot-on-a-stick mechanics like it's the first time we've seen them.
Opening loot box is RNG.
What type of loot we got from dungeon is RNG.
RNG doesnt make something gambling. In dungeon example we "work" for that loot, so while it is random more or less, we are working on it. In loot box example we dont "work" for it.
Also, loot boxes are designed to develop unhealthy spending habits while skinner box is designed to develop unhealthy ENGAGEMENT habits.
Dont mix those two, it is strawman. And skinner box was always not good tactics, thats why successful mmo go miles to hide it and make moment of "pushing a button" or "working" as best as possible. While lootboxes make moment of opening them as best as possible.
So much is misunderstood about addiction and its so frustrating that how people will not listen to logic.
An addict can be addicted to TV!!!!! its not the substance that is addictive, its the person
Oh please, tha addicted to TV will steal one PC and be good, the addict addicted to loot boxes or drugs will steal everyone PC and anything else of value. What you are addicted to is the problem. I'm sure that there are some people that are addicted to exercise, and learning, but to an extent that isn't a bad thing. I'm perfectly happy being addicted to breathing. In . . . out . . . aaahhhh, that was a good one XD
Seriously though, the ESRB is the "Industry" here. Not EA. ESRB ratings do make a difference I believe, which is why I bet there is no swearing or gore in SWBF2. Yup, just checked it. Teen. So if having "gambling" in a game pushed it's ratings to adult, they would loose sales, and having a big warning about possible addictive spending or some such would keep some parents from buying it.
Just having this be featured so prominently in the news I think is a great help. Slightly hopeful good things are to come.
If there are predatory designs intended to trigger addictive behaviors then they run way deeper than "loot crates". A lot of game design is built around an operant conditioning system (skinner box) or similar carrot + chase scenarios. These by nature prey on addictive and obsessive personalities like the completionist.
It's a bit ironic because we're on MMORPG.com talking about predatory carrot-on-a-stick mechanics like it's the first time we've seen them.
Opening loot box is RNG.
What type of loot we got from dungeon is RNG.
RNG doesnt make something gambling. In dungeon example we "work" for that loot, so while it is random more or less, we are working on it. In loot box example we dont "work" for it.
Also, loot boxes are designed to develop unhealthy spending habits while skinner box is designed to develop unhealthy ENGAGEMENT habits.
Dont mix those two, it is strawman. And skinner box was always not good tactics, thats why successful mmo go miles to hide it and make moment of "pushing a button" or "working" as best as possible. While lootboxes make moment of opening them as best as possible.
I pointed that you are wrong and explained why. Im sorry you dont understand.
Comments
if i present you with a cauldron of fire and you put your hand in you learn why not to do as i said right.....previous until then you carry on with a flare of ignorance best supported by you paying for loot box after loot box cause there is no fire burning you....until that wallet catches fire or your life catches fire ....drugs , gambling alcohol and addiction in general are NOT something you get BURNT BADLY RIGHT AWAY AND STAY AWAY FROM....you get a high from gambling and drugs and such thus you want more and more and more at an ILLOGICAL COST to one self thus the logic of the burning hand might not even be relevant....a drug add ct for a fix might just let you burn his hand....just as someone with bad gambling habit you might say let me light my lighter on your hand and ill give ya ten bucks for that gambling he might do it/////
That's what happens when you buy advantages in MMORPGS. You are bypassing the game. What happens in a game world should be self contained in that game world.
Buying advantages changes and cheapens the experience of actually playing the game.
It's why I didn't buy SWBF2 this year and it's why millions of other people complained enough to cost EA $3,000,000,000 in valuation. Even if temporary... it's still a staggering impact.
People are starting to wake up.
More are choosing the Red Pill over the Blue Pill of obliviousness.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
lets have em say you can just pay to get past 50 laps a t a time geee the company with most cash wins everyone pays to come and after they get in they announce winner and every one leaves >>>>>SOOOO MUCH FUN...
ugh
games are about being entertained for a time....and if you don't have the time play a different style a game that doesnt require so much time.
perhaps we need EA to come out and say there games are now gonna cost 200$ + micro transactions and loot boxes and that they are for the stinking filthy rich and will require photo id to be sent to the game and a video transmission to you so they can verify before you play....
thats the game you want with all the worlds rich competing for whose got the biggest epenis of a wallet
That even playing field only exists if the devs don't tamper with the fundamental basis. When they implement a cash shop and put things into it, they have not designed the game without accounting for the impact it will have on play. That's where the incentives to use them are implemented, in the gameplay.
That's also where the fundamental user experience gets impeded by marketing strategies that are used to draw value to those cash shop items. Hence, the grind is an intentional obstruction of the gameplay not a byproduct. If they removed the ability to pay money for items to bypass the tedium they implemented, then they would also be removing the reason for having implemented that tedium.
It's again the point of my addressing your example as well. Even in things like NACSAR they have tried to minimize the tedium where they can, the "grind" left there is just a fundamental byproduct of the experience. In a game like what we've discussed it's inverse, where the tedium has been intentionally added into the experience where it didn't need to be, in order to drive incentive of cash sales to bypass it in order to return to the core user experience.
perhaps pretty good gaming ought it find a few more stories of a 13 year old kid spending 13000 dollars on loot boxes.....and ya should hear the things his mom tried to do to help or stop this...
Leave your proletarian hat at home.
I can name right quickly funeral homes as one.
Also your last paragraph makes itself irrelevant by asking a question then removing all the ways anyone could give you and evidence/answers. how many cases of loot box kids spending way more then they should is enough for you? 2 5 10 10000 does the person responding need to spend his or her life knowing and having experienced these games to do that much FOR YOU NOT TO SEE THE BLATANTLY obvious?
As a person being asked to be a disability advocate....tell me how many cases you wish and pm me a personal email and ill spend a whole month sending you case after case with the persons permission .....hope your email provider has lots a space mmmmk.
CARDS you tards doing this might a put a wookies head and it might a flew a lil easier.
thats how boneheaded this all is and CARDS IN A SOCCER GAME? CARDS IN THIS CARDS IN THAT
i think of cards and i immedialty think gambling like poker...no offense but think when you get dipshtted no minded politicians on this
and some one keeps repeatin LOOT CARDS instead a loot boxes
thats reality for ya
/rant
im sure if you local govt had knowledge you had your 12 year old sit with you and the boys every night gambling they might even consider taking your kid from you as an UNFIT PARENT..
but its ok for EA and others to put it in games meant for kids?
nope should get a R rating for adults only or not do it.
and if yo uwant online play you code in like battlefront 2005 the ability to host your own servers....people will do it as long as they see fun in it...
...and ya know what 2005's still going and people are hosting on home servers and even paid ones.
NO WAYYYYY.....rofl
you all forget steam has that game and i on reddits lil ea thread started a liil revolution that id host all weekend long one server off my home pc ...had a blast ....and i didnt have to grind 4000 hrs to play vader LOL
And put straws on fields, k?
Oh please, tha addicted to TV will steal one PC and be good, the addict addicted to loot boxes or drugs will steal everyone PC and anything else of value. What you are addicted to is the problem. I'm sure that there are some people that are addicted to exercise, and learning, but to an extent that isn't a bad thing. I'm perfectly happy being addicted to breathing. In . . . out . . . aaahhhh, that was a good one XD
Seriously though, the ESRB is the "Industry" here. Not EA. ESRB ratings do make a difference I believe, which is why I bet there is no swearing or gore in SWBF2. Yup, just checked it. Teen. So if having "gambling" in a game pushed it's ratings to adult, they would loose sales, and having a big warning about possible addictive spending or some such would keep some parents from buying it.
Just having this be featured so prominently in the news I think is a great help. Slightly hopeful good things are to come.