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Vanilla WoW....How would you build it ?

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Comments

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    Wizardry said:
    It is not about how i would build vanilla Wow,it is more about how i would build a mmorpg...period.

    NO hand holding,it should not exist anyhow,you are suppose to be immersed into a living world where you talk to npc's and NOT moving towards them because of some yellow marker over their head.
    SKILLS/abilities should be improved through use or some other plausible system and NOT automated to get better because you got some xp for some meaningless quest.XP is ok to be used as a character overall level but should never be carried over to skills and abilities.

    Quests are fine,just NO xp for doing them.I have never in my entire life seen anywhere in the world where you become more experienced doing an errand/quest unless it is directly related,example you are on a quest to Mount Everest,well your cardio and conditioning would obviously be improved and you could say you are then a more experienced hiker/mountain climber,but you wouldn't be a better fireball caster from it.

    currency...this is a long topic but just like in real life,different currency for different regions of the world.

    It is actually impossible to explain a game design in a forum chat box,this is something that takes a binder/book full of pages to do properly,although judging from recent games i see on the market,many look like fly by night designs.
    Then why are you posting in a thread specifically for Vanilla WoW if you don't want to discuss Vanilla WoW.


    KyleranVrika
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 24,583
    If you change anything, people will complain that it's not Vanilla WoW anymore.  A lot of people may want Vanilla WoW plus some changes that they think of as minor, but different people want different and mutually contradictory changes.  In particular, there will always be a lot of "make my class stronger and other classes weaker".
    [Deleted User]Kyleran[Deleted User]
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Wizardry said:
    It is not about how i would build vanilla Wow,it is more about how i would build a mmorpg...period.

    NO hand holding,it should not exist anyhow,you are suppose to be immersed into a living world where you talk to npc's and NOT moving towards them because of some yellow marker over their head.
    SKILLS/abilities should be improved through use or some other plausible system and NOT automated to get better because you got some xp for some meaningless quest.XP is ok to be used as a character overall level but should never be carried over to skills and abilities.

    Quests are fine,just NO xp for doing them.I have never in my entire life seen anywhere in the world where you become more experienced doing an errand/quest unless it is directly related,example you are on a quest to Mount Everest,well your cardio and conditioning would obviously be improved and you could say you are then a more experienced hiker/mountain climber,but you wouldn't be a better fireball caster from it.

    currency...this is a long topic but just like in real life,different currency for different regions of the world.

    It is actually impossible to explain a game design in a forum chat box,this is something that takes a binder/book full of pages to do properly,although judging from recent games i see on the market,many look like fly by night designs.
    While I like your idea of rewarding relevant power ups from quests (that actually would give you some sort of powerup, cash for the rest) instead of XP I don't think a vanilla Wow relaunch is the right thing to premiere it in.

    I like your ideas but add them in a new game instead and let the vanilla servers be vanilla servers.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,908
    edited December 2017
    Seeming from an overwhelming majority pure vanilla is the way to go :)  

    After all I was just asking how others would like Vanilla. 

    Now looking at it from my prospective, I have many many years invested in Vanilla where others don't.  I must say I enjoyed every minuet of it....... If many are like me the feeling could last for years in pure Vanilla without changes.  My original post seems like good modifications years down the road and again just my interpretation.

      

    Can I ask everyone a question since everyone would like an exact replica:  

    How do you feel at the very least, modify the social panel to find groups easer ?

      
    As it stands, it's actually fine as it is.... groups are extremely easy to find by doing a search.  Never have a spent more than 10 minuets filling a group using it.  Infact I could instantly tell the status of Tanks and Healers to know if it's even worth it. 

    Important: 
    This method involves asking players directly, some would consider this spamming....That would be bull crap !...... NO ONE READS floating chat !..... This is why people spend hours LFG ! 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,938
    Seeming from an overwhelming majority pure vanilla is the way to go :)  

    After all I was just asking how others would like Vanilla. 

    Now looking at it from my prospective, I have many many years invested in Vanilla where others don't.  I must say I enjoyed every minuet of it....... If many are like me the feeling could last for years in pure Vanilla without changes.  My original post seems like good modifications years down the road and again just my interpretation.

      

    Can I ask everyone a question since everyone would like an exact replica:  

    How do you feel at the very least, modify the social panel to find groups easer ?

      
    As it stands, it's actually fine as it is.... groups are extremely easy to find by doing a search.  Never have a spent more than 10 minuets filling a group using it.  Infact I could instantly tell the status of Tanks and Healers to know if it's even worth it. 

    Important: 
    This method involves asking players directly, some would consider this spamming....That would be bull crap !...... NO ONE READS floating chat !..... This is why people spend hours LFG ! 
    I don't mind when players reach out to see if I want to group, but I have friends it greatly bothers (happens to those who play popular support classes) so there should be a way to flag yourself as not looking for group.

    In fact in classic DAOC earlier this year I rediscovered that players could go anon, mask their class or even crafter title if they chose to.

    What I dislike is being blindly invited to a group without a convo first which I do consider spamming of a sorts.



    Phry

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,938
    Kyleran said:
    Seeming from an overwhelming majority pure vanilla is the way to go :)  

    After all I was just asking how others would like Vanilla. 

    Now looking at it from my prospective, I have many many years invested in Vanilla where others don't.  I must say I enjoyed every minuet of it....... If many are like me the feeling could last for years in pure Vanilla without changes.  My original post seems like good modifications years down the road and again just my interpretation.

      

    Can I ask everyone a question since everyone would like an exact replica:  

    How do you feel at the very least, modify the social panel to find groups easer ?

      
    As it stands, it's actually fine as it is.... groups are extremely easy to find by doing a search.  Never have a spent more than 10 minuets filling a group using it.  Infact I could instantly tell the status of Tanks and Healers to know if it's even worth it. 

    Important: 
    This method involves asking players directly, some would consider this spamming....That would be bull crap !...... NO ONE READS floating chat !..... This is why people spend hours LFG ! 
    I don't mind when players reach out to see if I want to group, but I have friends it greatly bothers (happens to those who play popular support classes) so there should be a way to flag yourself as not looking for group.

    There's a new option in Battle.NET for this:

    Now there's a great example of the sort of QOL enhancement I would assume most vanilla fans would not object to.

    I'd certainly want it.
    [Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DinastyDinasty Member UncommonPosts: 206
    I wouldn't. We had the Model-T, but now we have better.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,908
    Without using the social panel, players will be back to:

    " LF2M Deadmines " 
    " LF Tank Blackfathom Deep then good to go "  

    This could needlessly goes on for hours, all because no one watches the rolling chat.  This should take no more than 10 minuets to fill.  I'll be honest, more like 5. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,938
    delete5230 said:by
    Without using the social panel, players will be back to:

    " LF2M Deadmines " 
    " LF Tank Blackfathom Deep then good to go "  

    This could needlessly goes on for hours, all because no one watches the rolling chat.  This should take no more than 10 minuets to fill.  I'll be honest, more like 5. 
     Has that been your experience in the current "vanilla" servers you claim to have recent experience in?

    BTW,  I don't consider 10 to 15 minutes to find a group unreasonable,  in fact even up to 30 is fine on an occasional basis.

    Heck, it should take at least that long to travel to the dungeon to meet your group.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,908
    Kyleran said:
    delete5230 said:by
    Without using the social panel, players will be back to:

    " LF2M Deadmines " 
    " LF Tank Blackfathom Deep then good to go "  

    This could needlessly goes on for hours, all because no one watches the rolling chat.  This should take no more than 10 minuets to fill.  I'll be honest, more like 5. 
     Has that been your experience in the current "vanilla" servers you claim to have recent experience in?

    BTW,  I don't consider 10 to 15 minutes to find a group unreasonable,  in fact even up to 30 is fine on an occasional basis.

    Heck, it should take at least that long to travel to the dungeon to meet your group.

    If I needed a tank, I would ask warriors first ranging +/- 3 levels. 

    Ask first one "hay, would you like to tank deadmines with us we have a healer and 4 total ? " then another then another then another, I would have one in about 3 minuets. If not I would ask Paladins, if not I would ask Druids, maybe 5 minuets total time elapsed. 

    I always get what I want....... Worst case, if nothing, then hay were not going, NO TANKS MOVE ON AND DO SOMETHING ELSE !....... another good thing about this, I'll know were not going in 5 minuets instead of working on it for 2 hours :)  
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,938
    Kyleran said:
    delete5230 said:by
    Without using the social panel, players will be back to:

    " LF2M Deadmines " 
    " LF Tank Blackfathom Deep then good to go "  

    This could needlessly goes on for hours, all because no one watches the rolling chat.  This should take no more than 10 minuets to fill.  I'll be honest, more like 5. 
     Has that been your experience in the current "vanilla" servers you claim to have recent experience in?

    BTW,  I don't consider 10 to 15 minutes to find a group unreasonable,  in fact even up to 30 is fine on an occasional basis.

    Heck, it should take at least that long to travel to the dungeon to meet your group.

    If I needed a tank, I would ask warriors first ranging +/- 3 levels. 

    Ask first one "hay, would you like to tank deadmines with us we have a healer and 4 total ? " then another then another then another, I would have one in about 3 minuets. If not I would ask Paladins, if not I would ask Druids, maybe 5 minuets total time elapsed. 

    I always get what I want....... Worst case, if nothing, then hay were not going, NO TANKS MOVE ON AND DO SOMETHING ELSE !....... another good thing about this, I'll know were not going in 5 minuets instead of working on it for 2 hours :)  
    Insightful...so what was that problem you were trying to solve again?

    ;)
    [Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,908
    edited December 2017
    Kyleran said:
    Kyleran said:
    delete5230 said:by
    Without using the social panel, players will be back to:

    " LF2M Deadmines " 
    " LF Tank Blackfathom Deep then good to go "  

    This could needlessly goes on for hours, all because no one watches the rolling chat.  This should take no more than 10 minuets to fill.  I'll be honest, more like 5. 
     Has that been your experience in the current "vanilla" servers you claim to have recent experience in?

    BTW,  I don't consider 10 to 15 minutes to find a group unreasonable,  in fact even up to 30 is fine on an occasional basis.

    Heck, it should take at least that long to travel to the dungeon to meet your group.

    If I needed a tank, I would ask warriors first ranging +/- 3 levels. 

    Ask first one "hay, would you like to tank deadmines with us we have a healer and 4 total ? " then another then another then another, I would have one in about 3 minuets. If not I would ask Paladins, if not I would ask Druids, maybe 5 minuets total time elapsed. 

    I always get what I want....... Worst case, if nothing, then hay were not going, NO TANKS MOVE ON AND DO SOMETHING ELSE !....... another good thing about this, I'll know were not going in 5 minuets instead of working on it for 2 hours :)  
    Insightful...so what was that problem you were trying to solve again?

    ;)

    How to get other people to use the social panel... It works, as I talk to people I find about 1 out of 20 use this method.  

    At times, I would sit back watching others spam open chat for long periods, eventually I would send a pm explaining this, OR I WOULD DO IT FOR THEM. They love it ! 

    Their are times where I would have 2 players and needing 3 more, I would fill the group in minuets and amaze the first two.  

    Their are times where every single tank/healer is already in a dungeon, I would know this and Know I cant get one..... at least I know  

    Often I would get a tank first, then healer..... without one " were not going"

    Every mmo has this feature, yet never used..... Infact it worked in Vanguard in it's most lowest populated times.   

    The word has to get out, but its up to the developer to push it somehow. 
  • k61977k61977 Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    For me this would be extremely easy.  You give people what they asked for vanilla WoW, no additions or changes.  If the game didn't have it before Burning was released it would not have it.  How can you add things and call it vanilla Wow?
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 1,066
    Blizzard already has a Voice Chat program.  It's built into the Battle.net client.  the reason why most people are unaware that it exists is because they prefer to jump around from program to program depending on the group of people or guild they're playing with.  Battle.net's voice chat has been a thing for...  At least a year, at this point.

    I wish more people would use it; because it sucks having to install Vent/TS/Discord/etc. to cover the variety of programs so many people use, these days.  The fragmentation is a bit too much, at this point.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,577
    edited December 2017
    Use a later patch that included Maraudon, battlegrounds and class balancing.  Add MC and Ony at the appropriate time after launch.   The same goes for DM, ZG, BWL, AQ20/40 and Naxx

    keep vanilla raid sizes

    Dual spec would be good addition

    The option to use modern graphics - if that's not too expensive.

    More flight points and no requirement to take multiple paths as long as you have all FPs on the way

    Summoning Stones

    Faster mob and quest item respawn timers - it doesn't need to be that painful

    faster out of combat mana and health regen

    I would support additional class balancing for less viable class specs - but i don't expect this to happen.



  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,938
    k61977 said:
    For me this would be extremely easy.  You give people what they asked for vanilla WoW, no additions or changes.  If the game didn't have it before Burning was released it would not have it.  How can you add things and call it vanilla Wow?
    In all fairness, they are calling it "classic" WOW which could mean some content outside of vanilla versions. 
    [Deleted User]k61977

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • k61977k61977 Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    Kyleran said:
    k61977 said:
    For me this would be extremely easy.  You give people what they asked for vanilla WoW, no additions or changes.  If the game didn't have it before Burning was released it would not have it.  How can you add things and call it vanilla Wow?
    In all fairness, they are calling it "classic" WOW which could mean some content outside of vanilla versions. 
    I agree with that but the poster asked about vanilla wow not classic wow.  Just sayin.
  • SirAgravaineSirAgravaine Member RarePosts: 520
    Wizardry said:
    It is not about how i would build vanilla Wow,it is more about how i would build a mmorpg...period.

    NO hand holding,it should not exist anyhow,you are suppose to be immersed into a living world where you talk to npc's and NOT moving towards them because of some yellow marker over their head.
    SKILLS/abilities should be improved through use or some other plausible system and NOT automated to get better because you got some xp for some meaningless quest.XP is ok to be used as a character overall level but should never be carried over to skills and abilities.

    Quests are fine,just NO xp for doing them.I have never in my entire life seen anywhere in the world where you become more experienced doing an errand/quest unless it is directly related,example you are on a quest to Mount Everest,well your cardio and conditioning would obviously be improved and you could say you are then a more experienced hiker/mountain climber,but you wouldn't be a better fireball caster from it.

    currency...this is a long topic but just like in real life,different currency for different regions of the world.

    It is actually impossible to explain a game design in a forum chat box,this is something that takes a binder/book full of pages to do properly,although judging from recent games i see on the market,many look like fly by night designs.
    Wizardy, I'm not sure if you know this (you do not seem to) but: MMORPGs are not supposed to be emulations of real life. They are games and with that have their own rulesets. I have never seen coins randomly placed next to large green pipes, that won't keep me from playing Mario...

    Go find another thread, because none of your ideas apply to World of Warcraft.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,908
    Use a later patch that included Maraudon, battlegrounds and class balancing.  Add MC and Ony at the appropriate time after launch.   The same goes for DM, ZG, BWL, AQ20/40 and Naxx

    keep vanilla raid sizes

    Dual spec would be good addition

    The option to use modern graphics - if that's not too expensive.

    More flight points and no requirement to take multiple paths as long as you have all FPs on the way

    Summoning Stones

    Faster mob and quest item respawn timers - it doesn't need to be that painful

    faster out of combat mana and health regen

    I would support additional class balancing for less viable class specs - but i don't expect this to happen.




    @Frodo, I agree with enhancements, 

    As much as Vanilla was fluid and natural, it had several un-thought out sticking points and irritations.  I see what your doing.... Like my list... we would like them fixed.  

    HOWEVER... Reading the response here, people want an "exact replica",  its my understanding Blizzards forums are battling out the exact same issues (It's not really a choice anyway). 
    Will get what they give. 

    We have to respect the majority.... What would be nice, release the "exact replica" and way later repair it's problems. 



    I learned to respect the majority on this issue, BUT Looking-For-Group has to be solved by a better social panel for searches !!
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,465
    Use a later patch that included Maraudon, battlegrounds and class balancing.  Add MC and Ony at the appropriate time after launch.   The same goes for DM, ZG, BWL, AQ20/40 and Naxx

    keep vanilla raid sizes

    Dual spec would be good addition

    The option to use modern graphics - if that's not too expensive.

    More flight points and no requirement to take multiple paths as long as you have all FPs on the way

    Summoning Stones

    Faster mob and quest item respawn timers - it doesn't need to be that painful

    faster out of combat mana and health regen

    I would support additional class balancing for less viable class specs - but i don't expect this to happen.





    That wouldn't be Vanilla WOW would it, the whole point of having a vanilla WOW is to take it back to the beginning hense no battlegrounds or Maraudon. 

    Everyone wants to take it back to the best time they had which totally makes a vanilla wow null and void. 

    Dohh... 




  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,938
    edited December 2017
    Use a later patch that included Maraudon, battlegrounds and class balancing.  Add MC and Ony at the appropriate time after launch.   The same goes for DM, ZG, BWL, AQ20/40 and Naxx

    keep vanilla raid sizes

    Dual spec would be good addition

    The option to use modern graphics - if that's not too expensive.

    More flight points and no requirement to take multiple paths as long as you have all FPs on the way

    Summoning Stones

    Faster mob and quest item respawn timers - it doesn't need to be that painful

    faster out of combat mana and health regen

    I would support additional class balancing for less viable class specs - but i don't expect this to happen.





    That wouldn't be Vanilla WOW would it, the whole point of having a vanilla WOW is to take it back to the beginning hense no battlegrounds or Maraudon. 

    Everyone wants to take it back to the best time they had which totally makes a vanilla wow null and void. 

    Dohh... 
    As I recall BGs were introduced at some point in vanilla WOW, so then the question is should they launch with 1.0 or 1.12?

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,812
    Blizzard is never going to release a version of vanilla WoW that is in their view "flawed", in terms of balance and game mechanics, so I would bet that Classic will launch with the core system as was found in 1.12. Content wise, they may or may not choose to go with a progressive release.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,938
    Galadourn said:
    Blizzard is never going to release a version of vanilla WoW that is in their view "flawed", in terms of balance and game mechanics, so I would bet that Classic will launch with the core system as was found in 1.12. Content wise, they may or may not choose to go with a progressive release.
    There is clear advantage in going with 1.12 to pick up almost 2 years of defect fixes along with the additional content it brings as well.
    Galadourn[Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,465
    Kyleran said:
    Use a later patch that included Maraudon, battlegrounds and class balancing.  Add MC and Ony at the appropriate time after launch.   The same goes for DM, ZG, BWL, AQ20/40 and Naxx

    keep vanilla raid sizes

    Dual spec would be good addition

    The option to use modern graphics - if that's not too expensive.

    More flight points and no requirement to take multiple paths as long as you have all FPs on the way

    Summoning Stones

    Faster mob and quest item respawn timers - it doesn't need to be that painful

    faster out of combat mana and health regen

    I would support additional class balancing for less viable class specs - but i don't expect this to happen.





    That wouldn't be Vanilla WOW would it, the whole point of having a vanilla WOW is to take it back to the beginning hense no battlegrounds or Maraudon. 

    Everyone wants to take it back to the best time they had which totally makes a vanilla wow null and void. 

    Dohh... 
    As I recall BGs were introduced at some point in vanilla WOW, so then the question is should they launch with 1.0 or 1.12?


    1.0 - 1.7 which would give us six months of Vanilla and no battlegrounds. Vanilla WOW when PVP was Terren Mill or Crossroads.


    Kyleran




  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member EpicPosts: 5,577
    Use a later patch that included Maraudon, battlegrounds and class balancing.  Add MC and Ony at the appropriate time after launch.   The same goes for DM, ZG, BWL, AQ20/40 and Naxx

    keep vanilla raid sizes

    Dual spec would be good addition

    The option to use modern graphics - if that's not too expensive.

    More flight points and no requirement to take multiple paths as long as you have all FPs on the way

    Summoning Stones

    Faster mob and quest item respawn timers - it doesn't need to be that painful

    faster out of combat mana and health regen

    I would support additional class balancing for less viable class specs - but i don't expect this to happen.





    That wouldn't be Vanilla WOW would it, the whole point of having a vanilla WOW is to take it back to the beginning hense no battlegrounds or Maraudon. 

    Everyone wants to take it back to the best time they had which totally makes a vanilla wow null and void. 

    Dohh... 
    Having played on a few private servers, I have a pretty good idea what I don't want to deal with ever again.

    Having maraudon appear after I've already leveled passed it doesn't do much good.
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