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Hawaiian Legislators Call EA Loot Boxes a 'Predatory Practice' - Star Wars: Battlefront II - MMORPG.

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,812
    TaishiFox said:
    For the record go and re-read your own posts before accusing someone else of patronizing and trying to mock with childish comments.  Like I said, go stock up... lootboxes are soon "Going Out Of Business".
    Give an example before trying to call someone out little man else your statements mean very little.
    cry babies
    Get with the programme people, this is the modern age
    personal victim
    deluded little world 
     if anyone had half a brain
     belly aching
    you clearly or (sic) a victim, of ya own damn mentality! 
    trying to find a scapegoat
    immature cry baby
    little man

    That's just from this page...

    TaishiFoxIselink61977YashaXcameltosis

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,812
    DMKano said:
    Worse case scenario, EA - moves everything from RNG loot boxes to packs containing loot box contents you can buy.

    So they remove RNG, but everything is still for sale in packs.

    Guess what, no longer gambling and people will still buy them.

    in the end EA will still profit.


    Yes but they will have to put a specific dollar amount on that Blue Sword of Vaporizing and not sell you 10 boxes for $10 with unknown odds for getting it.


    YashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • TaishiFoxTaishiFox Member RarePosts: 983
    DMKano said:
    Option 1.

    Worse case scenario, EA - moves everything from RNG loot boxes to packs containing loot box contents you can buy.

    So they remove RNG, but everything is still for sale in packs.

    Guess what, no longer gambling and people will still buy them.

    in the end EA will still profit.



    Option 2.

    EA is forced to dislose ful contents of loot boxes and % chance of winning each item (basically China loot box system).

    Again this would no longer constitue gambling and EA would still make money off loot boxes.



    So before people go thinking how politicians and the government are going to change the video game industry - even if new legislation passes -  its not going to change much.
    LOL! It wouldnt' surprise me if thats their plan, they did say their loot boxes will return after reviewing it and this does seem like a plausable answer to me! XD  If EA does this I'd applaud it tbh!

    imageimage
    image

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    edited November 2017
    I think they make more money out of giving you the chance to get a 10$ item by gambling far more money until you get the item, than let you directly buy it.

    So it's all in the interest of EA, Blizzard, Valve and so forth to keep it RNG and monetized, but if that means things as the games that do that can't be sold to kids (or even less 21 as gambling is) forcing age verifications and so, it will mess them up from doing that.

    They seem to be leaning on the age verification, if it falls like online casinos it's a strict thing it's not just a "PG" rating.
    Slapshot1188Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,812
    DMKano said:




    Option 2.

    EA is forced to dislose ful contents of loot boxes and % chance of winning each item (basically China loot box system).

    Again this would no longer constitue gambling and EA would still make money off loot boxes.



    Actually option 2 is still gambling.  It's just stating the odds. Just like the lottery.

    MaxBaconYashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,882
    TaishiFox said:
    Makes me laugh how they make this all about kids when I highly doubt the majority of SW:BF2 players are infact a minor! Part of the reason why not many kids will be even playing this is because it's too hardcore for them to grasp their tiny minds on, they'd probably rage quit after a few deaths! Also, not every, or many, parents are that niave to pay for ingame loot boxes for a game they just splashed out £50 (or whatever it is in your currency) on a game for their child!
    That being said I'd love to know where things go from here, I mean there's plenty of companies who's already done stuff like this so are they going to target them next? I personally think this is rediculous cus it seems to me that just because EA rereleased a franchise and added loot boxes to it that media and certain people of the community are attacking it.  Get with the programme people, this is the modern age, its been going on for a long time now, kind of too late to just wave a finger at one of em just because they dared to take a step further!
    Dude, it's rated Teen and that's 13+ in the US
    Slapshot1188YashaX
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • TaishiFoxTaishiFox Member RarePosts: 983
    edited November 2017
    TaishiFox said:
    For the record go and re-read your own posts before accusing someone else of patronizing and trying to mock with childish comments.  Like I said, go stock up... lootboxes are soon "Going Out Of Business".
    Give an example before trying to call someone out little man else your statements mean very little.
    cry babies
    Get with the programme people, this is the modern age How is this immature or patronising?
    personal victim Again how is this immature?
    deluded little world 
     if anyone had half a brain
     belly aching *shrugs*
    you clearly or (sic <-immature slang toward my spelling mistake?) a victim, of ya own damn mentality!  Ok you can have this, it was sort of an insult but also resorted from your own behavour so...
    trying to find a scapegoat Once again how is this immature or patronising??
    immature cry baby Ok this was sort of immature but you're still a cry baby, just saying how I see it.
    little man Eh, you come off as someone who clearly hasn't grown much, what can I say?

    That's just from this page...
    Most of those weren't even personal to you man, as a saying goes if the cap fits wear it! Also, I've added some of my own coments to what you quoted cus if this is the best you can call me out on you've only got half a leg to stand on. Fact is you made a personal dig at me and it was quite an immature one at best.  Also, if you find those statements to be immature then thats your problem really as I find most of those quotes not even half as bad as the one you made toward me. Once again a juvinile acting like a damn victim ruiniing this community, move along, nothing to see here. And on that note I'm done talking to you, you're not worth my time.
    MaxBaconSlapshot1188AeanderYashaX

    imageimage
    image

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,882
    edited November 2017
    DMKano said:
    Reality Check

    Option 1.

    Worse case scenario, EA - moves everything from RNG loot boxes to packs containing loot box contents you can buy.

    So they remove RNG, but everything is still for sale in packs.

    Guess what, no longer gambling and people will still buy them.

    in the end EA will still profit.



    Option 2.

    EA is forced to dislose full contents of loot boxes and % chance of winning each item (basically China loot box system).

    Again this would no longer constitue gambling (assuming legislation was in line with this) and EA would still make money off loot boxes.



    So before people go thinking how politicians and the government are going to change the video game industry - even if new legislation passes -  its not going to change much.

    In the end - digital item mall will still be there, maybe with revealed RNG, or no RNG - but microtrans is here to stay

    Nice to see you're coming along from yesterday's "Pffft! It'll never happen" position. 
    Slapshot1188YashaX
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    Companies KNOW that these loot boxes preyed on the same human psychology that gambling did.  I've seen developers state it themselves in various places.  That's one (albeit one of several) of the reasons why they even use the same business terminology as gambling for that type of customer ("whales")

    Even if you don't "think of the children", it logically should have similar regulations as gambling because the mentality behind it (which, again, the companies themselves KNOW) is the same thing.
    IselinGdemami
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    DMKano said:
    Reality Check

    Option 1.

    Worse case scenario, EA - moves everything from RNG loot boxes to packs containing loot box contents you can buy.

    So they remove RNG, but everything is still for sale in packs.

    Guess what, no longer gambling and people will still buy them.

    in the end EA will still profit.


    They won't profit as much though.  Companies wouldn't be loot-boxing so many damn things if it wasn't more profitable than selling it outright.  And it's more profitable than selling it outright because it preys on the same human psychology that gambling does while letting them set "House always wins" odds (in this case, those winning odds being "worse to the point that the item on average is more expensive than what they think they probably could have sold the item for if they sold it directly").

    If it was as simple as just selling the item directly instead of via loot boxes, we wouldn't have reached this point in the first place because companies would be selling items directly instead of via loot boxes.
    Slapshot1188
  • heerobyaheerobya Member UncommonPosts: 465
    Let's be real here.

    Gaming is cheaper than ever relative to inflation, and games COST more to make then ever.

    DLC, loot boxes... industry does what industry needs to.

    Want to see DLC and micro transactions go away? Expect to pay $80-90+ (US) for a now $60 game.

    "I’ve made the argument over the last few years that games are essentially cheaper than they’ve ever been. An NES game in 1990 cost, on average, about $50. That’s $89 in 2013 money. Your $70 N64 cartridges in 1998 would require the equivalent of $100 today. Heck, the $50 PlayStation 2 game you bought in 2005 is worth $60, the exact price of a typical retail game in 2013. This isn't to say that salaries (or hourly pay) have kept up with inflation and the cost-of-living -- it decidedly hasn't -- but it is to say that, dollar-to-dollar over the past 35 years, gaming hardware and software is generally cheaper than ever."

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/15/the-real-cost-of-gaming-inflation-time-and-purchasing-power

    IselinMaxBaconTaishiFoxTorval
  • ThelricThelric Member UncommonPosts: 30
    It is sickening how we have ruined the gaming industry. We now have to worry about kids becoming gamblers because we sponsored it. Now the kids are the whales. We used to get everything the game had to offer by either one time fee or a sub. It used to be a time sink but now it's a money blackhole with a big RNG monster waiting for you. They add repetitive content and people flock to waste their money to buy the same generic content over and over and those funding for big profit are going to go for return on investment so good luck getting quality content without the bs that's spreading in the near future.

    At the end of the day we get closer to loosing out if we let console gaming become what pc and mobile gaming has become. There is no freedom preservation without being slapped with regulations. It's too late for that. Businesses grow and need to be investigated so they don't become a problem in society. That's where we are now.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    edited November 2017
    heerobya said:
    Let's be real here.

    Gaming is cheaper than ever relative to inflation, and games COST more to make then ever.

    Nooooooo !!!! 

    The profits of this companies show they are not countering the production costs or inflation, they are increasing their profits year after year after year.

    Companies like EA are publicly owned, so the only interest is making the company grow its wealth.
    Gdemami
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,626
    SBFord said:
    I like when he speaks more broadly about the "gambling mentality". While the movement will gain ground through the hyperbolic terminology of "but the kiiiiiiids", the overarching issue is worthy in that people will shit away their hard-earned money on loot crates and end up not eating next week or not being able to pay the rent. It encourages wagering on the odds of "winning".

    I don't mind loot boxes if they are earnable through game play but honestly believe that they should not ever be sold. Maybe this will see a return to box price / subscription-based games with full expansions, large DLC etc. rather than loot boxes to keep games funded.

    Earnable through gameplay was a tactic to prepare players for what they are now trying to fleece players with. So I would no loot boxes or the like whatsoever, all randomness should be removed from cash shops/purchased items etc.
    BruceYee
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,812
    heerobya said:



    Want to see DLC and micro transactions go away? Expect to pay $80-90+ (US) for a now $60 game.
    g-power

    We are paying that now.  Just look at "gold editions" which used to be regular editions of games.  Then on TOP of that they try to toss in some RNG Lootbox gambling crap.

    Just be up front and charge me what I need to play a whole freaking game.  Charge me a sub if you need to.  
    YashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,376
    TaishiFox said:
    k61977 said:
    This is an illogical argument.  We are talking about gambling with lootboxes where you don't get what you pay for, you get a chance at getting what you pay for.  Big difference between paying $15 dollars and getting everything the game has to offer vs paying for a chance to get all it offers.  Cash shops should never include anything that hinders progress other than maybe a xpac, etc...they should be for cosmetics only.
    Because those willing to pay shouldn't be allowed to progress farther than yourself, I mean how dare they right? Jesus why can't people open their eyes and get a damn self check?! Ya not the only person playing the game, there are thousands that can and will advance ahead of you and if someone wants to use their hard earned money to gain an advantage who are we really to deny them of that? Honestly this kind of stuff is just too selfish and self rightous over whether it should or shouldn't exist.  In my opinion paying a F2P game for P2W is no different than someone paying a subscription except for the advantages, although chances are the F2P game rate is lowered to encourage that so no real difference there either really.  I actually understand their point of view cus fact is you're paying a monthly fee therefore you shouldn't have to contend with RNG content that may force you into playing longer, maybe even for another month, to obtain! THAT is also a form of gambling! It may not be loot boxes but where does it stop? where do you draw a line? Maybe they should just make all games B2P with no microtransactions but then those who can't afford the damn games will start complainining anyway so there's no way to win this! Someone is always going to whine as long as money is involved!
    Wow your reading comprehension is probably the worst I have ever seen to be honest.  Nothing I said had anything to do with hindering people from buying anything.  I said that cash shops shouldn't hinder people, no walls in the cash shop is what I said but you couldn't understand that so I guess I have to spell it out, again NO WALLS TO HINDER PLAY IN THE CASH SHOP.  The point which you so seemingly missed is the fact that for a sub only game with no cash shop you get everything for one price period no hidden fees, just time spent playing, ect... Now take that same game with lootboxes at it's core you do not get everything for your $15 dollar instead you get a chance to get something you wanted, but most likely you will end up spending 10x's the amount to get that item you really needed or wanted.  We are talking about the money here not your personal feelings and self righteous attitude that you are bringing with your post.  Companies preying on those that have addiction problems and that is the problem.  Unfortunately there are people like you think it is ok to prey on sick people because that is what people with addictions are.  People with your mentality are the reason the world is in the state it is in now. 
    Slapshot1188
  • heerobyaheerobya Member UncommonPosts: 465
    MaxBacon said:
    heerobya said:
    Let's be real here.

    Gaming is cheaper than ever relative to inflation, and games COST more to make then ever.

    Nooooooo !!!! 

    The profits of this companies show they are not countering the production costs or inflation, they are increasing their profits year after year after year.

    Companies like EA are publicly owned, so the only interest is making the company grow its wealth.
    And if they don't make money, they don't make games. Any games. 

    Publishers MAY be focused on money, but devs (often) need publishers to get funding to get games released.

    Necessary evil.

    Unless you don't want to see big production value AAA games ever again?
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,882
    heerobya said:

    DLC, loot boxes... industry does what industry needs to.

    Classic!
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,028
    Kids are an effective argument you will look like scum arguing against the safety of kids.
    IselinMaxBaconTaishiFoxforcelima
    Chamber of Chains
  • heerobyaheerobya Member UncommonPosts: 465
    Iselin said:
    heerobya said:

    DLC, loot boxes... industry does what industry needs to.

    Classic!
    I don't want to see the base price go up 20-30$ - but it will!
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 15,626
    edited November 2017
    MaxBacon said:
    heerobya said:
    Let's be real here.

    Gaming is cheaper than ever relative to inflation, and games COST more to make then ever.

    Nooooooo !!!! 

    The profits of this companies show they are not countering the production costs or inflation, they are increasing their profits year after year after year.

    Companies like EA are publicly owned, so the only interest is making the company grow its wealth.

    If the cost was an issue to these companies they would be folding. Instead they are making billions. They are making a killing selling their cake, then they eat it, eat the icing, eat the box and the fork if they can get away with it.
    GdemamiThelric
  • FonclFoncl Member UncommonPosts: 347
    Finally something to stop the downward spiral of ever more devious monetization of games, it probably won't change much but it's a start.

    It has come to the point where I would require a legally binding promise from a publisher that the business model of a MMORPG will not change from whats there at launch for me to be willing to invest time in it, no matter how good it is. Even if the business model is acceptable at launch I assume it will go to shit sooner rather than later and all my time spent will feel like it was wasted.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    heerobya said:
    And if they don't make money, they don't make games. Any games. 

    Publishers MAY be focused on money, but devs (often) need publishers to get funding to get games released.

    Necessary evil.

    Unless you don't want to see big production value AAA games ever again?
    The big costs of AAA games are countered by MANY TIMES their profits on sales, they are not evening out their cost with their revenue, it's maximization of profits to the extreme.

    Microtransactions, season passes, dlcs and so already gave this companies huge profitability, i'ts no longer about sustainability, they will push it as far as they can and that's what they been doing with loot boxes, and clearly we are hitting the point lines must be drawn.
    YashaX
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,882
    heerobya said:
    Iselin said:
    heerobya said:

    DLC, loot boxes... industry does what industry needs to.

    Classic!
    I don't want to see the base price go up 20-30$ - but it will!
    And if people pay that, it's all good. And if they don't, they'll have to adjust the price. That's how real, honest to goodness free enterprise works and there's nothing wrong with that.
    YashaX
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,376
    DMKano said:
    MaxBacon said:
    I think they make more money out of giving you the chance to get a 10$ item by gambling far more money until you get the item, than let you directly buy it.

    So it's all in the interest of EA, Blizzard, Valve and so forth to keep it RNG and monetized, but if that means things as the games that do that can't be sold to kids (or even less 21 as gambling is) forcing age verifications and so, it will mess them up from doing that.

    They seem to be leaning on the age verification, if it falls like online casinos it's a strict thing it's not just a "PG" rating.

    Correct, RNG loot boxes do make more money right now.

    But if they get made illegal, the entire industry will change pricing for digital items to match the profitability of loot boxes.


    So in the end not much will change except for that $5 loot box goes away, and the contents of the loot box will get sold individually for a lot more.
    I prefer you last statement point blank over lootboxes.  Would rather spend a known amount to get what I want over a chance to get it over and over.  Would rather spend the $20 for that mount skin and get it over spending $5 10x's and not getting it.
    YashaX
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