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(updated!) Authorities looking at regulating RNG as gambling

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    edited November 2017
    bug-
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    MadFrenchie said:
    Wrong once again.
    ...if only your last post(personal attack) didn't consist of fallacious rhetorics regarding ignorance.
    IselinFlyByKnight
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Gdemami said:
    MadFrenchie said:
    Wrong once again.
    ...if only your last post(personal attack) didn't consist of fallacious rhetorics regarding ignorance.
    Okay, allow me to explain:

    The legislation you're referencing never implemented a ban on anything.

    http://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/media/euromyths/bendybananas.html

    And I quote: "Straight & bendy are not banned by the EU. Commission Regulation 2257/94 identifies certain restrictions for fruits that producers have to conform to in order to sell their produce within the EU. The regulation states that bananas must be "free from malformation or abnormal curvature." 

    Class 1 bananas can have "slight defects of shape" and Class 2 bananas full-on "defects of shape"."

    And for additional (accurate) commentary on the issue:

    ""Commission regulation 2257/94 decreed that bananas in general should be “free from malformation or abnormal curvature”. Those sold as “extra class” must be perfect, “class 1” can have “slight defects of shape” and “class 2” can have full-scale “defects of shape”.

    Nothing is banned under the regulation, which sets grading rules requested by industry to make sure importers – including UK wholesalers and supermarkets – know exactly what they will be getting when they order a box of bananas."

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/11/boris-johnson-launches-the-vote-leave-battlebus-in-cornwall

    By all means, disagree.  Just know that you're wrong if you do.

    GdemamiAsm0deus

    image
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    This topic has become quite ridiculous. You're arguing about bananas.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    This topic has become quite ridiculous. You're arguing about bananas.
    Nah, he is just missing a point made...
    MadFrenchie
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,479
    Gdemami said:
    Give me my +1 LOL please. Thanks.
    Sometimes ignorance is entertaining, sometimes it is just sad...that is why there is no lol for you and laserit...
    What's entertaining is watching creepers like you eat crow ;)
    Iselin

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Gdemami said:
    This topic has become quite ridiculous. You're arguing about bananas.
    Nah, he is just missing a point made...
    You don't make points.  You make snide remarks implying you're the only person who understands reality.

    When you attempt to make a point, it's usually as wrong as your little banana comment.  But it is so entertaining.
    IselinGdemami

    image
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited November 2017
    You don't make points.  You make snide remarks implying you're the only person who understands reality.

    When you attempt to make a point, it's usually as wrong as your little banana comment.  But it is so entertaining.
    Ah, that is why you are turning to invectives instead of actually addressing supposedly wrong points....
    IselinKickaxeFlyByKnight
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Gdemami said:
    You don't make points.  You make snide remarks implying you're the only person who understands reality.

    When you attempt to make a point, it's usually as wrong as your little banana comment.  But it is so entertaining.
    Ah, that is why you are turning to invectives instead of actually addressing supposedly wrong points....
    Your post that ignited this series of responses had no point; it was simply your misinterpretation of an EU regulation that you (most erroneously) thought had some application to the overall topic at hand.

    You would've retained the image of a better understanding of both topics had you stuck with the LOL trolling.
    GdemamiTiamat64Iselincheyane

    image
  • forcelimaforcelima Member UncommonPosts: 232
    All government regulation will do is drive up prices like everything else government regulates into the ground. Get ready for prices to rise, already seen articles with analyst says that publishers don't charge enough. What better excuse to drive up box prices than gov regulation. 
    GdemamiSector13EponyxDamor
  • BrunlinBrunlin Member UncommonPosts: 79
    I hate loot boxes and it is a money trap and I think this type of practice is shady at best, however there are plenty of people I know who are adults and pay their own bills who love to drop money on them. Thats their choice, what ever makes them happy. As for kids using mommy and daddys credit card, well thats on the parents. Government can stay out of this, we dont need more regulation in anything especially gaming. Think of what could happen if something like this passes. Where would it end, anything of chance could be considered gambling. Magic The gathering booster packs of 15 cards with 1 random rare and 3 uncommons could be considered like the loot boxes and this would even spill into games like Hearth Stone and others. Adults can make decisions for themselves, as for the kids well thats up to the parents to regulate, not the government. My 2 cents

    forcelimaGdemamiEponyxDamor

    If at first you don’t succeed, call it version 1.0

  • BeyornBeyorn Member UncommonPosts: 345
    edited November 2017
    I hate loot boxes as well but this makes me worried for some of the smaller mmo I play (Secret World, LoTRO).  Do you think this will finally make them close up shop ;(?  I would think a large chunk of their money comes from loot boxes.

    I would much rather put up with loot boxes if it means I can play the mmos I love.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,479
    Brunlin said:
    I hate loot boxes and it is a money trap and I think this type of practice is shady at best, however there are plenty of people I know who are adults and pay their own bills who love to drop money on them. Thats their choice, what ever makes them happy. As for kids using mommy and daddys credit card, well thats on the parents. Government can stay out of this, we dont need more regulation in anything especially gaming. Think of what could happen if something like this passes. Where would it end, anything of chance could be considered gambling. Magic The gathering booster packs of 15 cards with 1 random rare and 3 uncommons could be considered like the loot boxes and this would even spill into games like Hearth Stone and others. Adults can make decisions for themselves, as for the kids well thats up to the parents to regulate, not the government. My 2 cents

    If the government does end up regulating, you can thank the game companies for not regulating themselves.
    LackingMMOAsm0deusGdemamiEponyxDamor

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,524
    edited November 2017
    Beyorn said:
    I hate loot boxes as well but this makes me worried for some of the smaller mmo I play (Secret World, LoTRO).  Do you think this will finally make them close up shop ;(?  I would think a large chunk of their money comes from loot boxes.

    I would much rather put up with loot boxes if it means I can play the mmos I love.
      I would rather they close up shop or find another way to stay afloat. I would rather lose access to a bunch of games I play while the industry readjusts itself and we can get back to decent mmo that are not just peddling the same ole junk.
    Post edited by Asm0deus on
    Gdemamicameltosis

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,851
    sayuu said:
    MaxBacon said:
    sayuu said:
    no it is not, the study is to see if loot boxes fall under the online gambling ban prescribed by current law.

    it is not a review of the gambling laws themselves.


    belgium is not changing law to get rid of loot boxes.


    and  nice slippery slope fallacy at the end there. . .
    That's what I meant, is getting reviewed you don't need to change the law but the regulations need to "thick more boxes". Also the end was a joke, not sure if this agressive vibe you just transmitted is intentional or not --'



    the point you are failing to grasp or that I am failing to explain properly is that belgium commissioned a study to see if loot boxes are gambling or not and that ( in my informed opinion) by current law that study will find that the aforementioned boxes are not gambling as defined by existing belgian law.


    the study is not to find the effects of loot boxes on consumers or if it leads to real gambling, and therefore the law needs to be changes to include it. like they did with CS:GO  item wagering.









    P.S. I am sorry you are so sensitive that facts and reasoned discourse seem aggressive simply because they challenge your worldview. . . 



    With loot boxes, you don't own your purchase. So I'm not so sure your argument is cut and dry.
    MadFrenchie
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,479
    I wonder if Disney might take some collateral damage

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Sector13Sector13 Member UncommonPosts: 784
    Good thing PSO2 didn't come to the US cause this crap would ruin the good F2P system they use. 
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2017
    Iselin said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Iselin said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    Second off, kids 'could' 'feel' 'forced' to spend money in ANY context, including buying the video game itself, buying the best shoes. but 'could' and 'direct relationship' is not the same thing and again one has to argue how that would be different then buying shoes.


    I'm so glad you took the bait, Sean :)

    You do know that in the real world, there are many laws and regulations that impact how the video game or the shoes can be marketed and advertised, right? Truth in advertising laws, etc.

    So what happens in the game's virtual world itself? Are there regulations that protect consumers once they're inside? Are all in-game marketing practices equally innocent?

    You really should ask yourself "Is this really dumb, or am I just not understanding it?" Preferably, before you post.
    that is exactly right.

    but stating 'gambling 'could' make childern feel forced to spend more money' is not exactly explaining how gambling specifically is doing that in ways that buying shoes are not or for that matter bubble gum or even anything that is NOT regulated for advertising. Its an EXTREEMLY vague statement.

    so are you saying that the advertising laws around lootboxes need to be modified? really? are such laws lying? really? where exactly.

    just making a blanket statement of 'it 'could' cause a child to feel forced' is not really remotely specfic enough.

    Not even a nice try
    Well I'm sure the chairman was assuming a certain level of knowledge and common sense in his audience which, he believed, would understand just what that social pressure is in the case of P2W loot boxes in SWBF2.

    Maybe he overestimated the intelligence of his audience? Quite possible as evidenced by many posts in this thread.
    The audience has no fucking clue.

    and what 'common sense' is it that everyone knows that gambling has a higher chance of making kids feel 'socially pressured to spend money' unlike all other products on the planet.

    or are you just saying gambling adverts need to have the same regulation as tennis shoes when it comes to adverts because you give a fuck about the kids?

    not buying that shit for a second


    Iselin

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,479
    SEANMCAD said:
    Iselin said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Iselin said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    Second off, kids 'could' 'feel' 'forced' to spend money in ANY context, including buying the video game itself, buying the best shoes. but 'could' and 'direct relationship' is not the same thing and again one has to argue how that would be different then buying shoes.


    I'm so glad you took the bait, Sean :)

    You do know that in the real world, there are many laws and regulations that impact how the video game or the shoes can be marketed and advertised, right? Truth in advertising laws, etc.

    So what happens in the game's virtual world itself? Are there regulations that protect consumers once they're inside? Are all in-game marketing practices equally innocent?

    You really should ask yourself "Is this really dumb, or am I just not understanding it?" Preferably, before you post.
    that is exactly right.

    but stating 'gambling 'could' make childern feel forced to spend more money' is not exactly explaining how gambling specifically is doing that in ways that buying shoes are not or for that matter bubble gum or even anything that is NOT regulated for advertising. Its an EXTREEMLY vague statement.

    so are you saying that the advertising laws around lootboxes need to be modified? really? are such laws lying? really? where exactly.

    just making a blanket statement of 'it 'could' cause a child to feel forced' is not really remotely specfic enough.

    Not even a nice try
    Well I'm sure the chairman was assuming a certain level of knowledge and common sense in his audience which, he believed, would understand just what that social pressure is in the case of P2W loot boxes in SWBF2.

    Maybe he overestimated the intelligence of his audience? Quite possible as evidenced by many posts in this thread.
    The audience has no fucking clue.

    and what 'common sense' is it that everyone knows that gambling has a higher chance of making kids feel 'socially pressured to spend money' unlike all other products on the planet.

    or are you just saying gambling adverts need to have the same regulation as tennis shoes when it comes to adverts because you give a fuck about the kids?

    not buying that shit for a second


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2017/11/18/how-a-star-wars-video-game-faced-charges-that-it-was-promoting-gambling/?tid=sm_rd&utm_term=.623983b40b62

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Iselin said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Iselin said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    Second off, kids 'could' 'feel' 'forced' to spend money in ANY context, including buying the video game itself, buying the best shoes. but 'could' and 'direct relationship' is not the same thing and again one has to argue how that would be different then buying shoes.


    I'm so glad you took the bait, Sean :)

    You do know that in the real world, there are many laws and regulations that impact how the video game or the shoes can be marketed and advertised, right? Truth in advertising laws, etc.

    So what happens in the game's virtual world itself? Are there regulations that protect consumers once they're inside? Are all in-game marketing practices equally innocent?

    You really should ask yourself "Is this really dumb, or am I just not understanding it?" Preferably, before you post.
    that is exactly right.

    but stating 'gambling 'could' make childern feel forced to spend more money' is not exactly explaining how gambling specifically is doing that in ways that buying shoes are not or for that matter bubble gum or even anything that is NOT regulated for advertising. Its an EXTREEMLY vague statement.

    so are you saying that the advertising laws around lootboxes need to be modified? really? are such laws lying? really? where exactly.

    just making a blanket statement of 'it 'could' cause a child to feel forced' is not really remotely specfic enough.

    Not even a nice try
    Well I'm sure the chairman was assuming a certain level of knowledge and common sense in his audience which, he believed, would understand just what that social pressure is in the case of P2W loot boxes in SWBF2.

    Maybe he overestimated the intelligence of his audience? Quite possible as evidenced by many posts in this thread.
    The audience has no fucking clue.

    and what 'common sense' is it that everyone knows that gambling has a higher chance of making kids feel 'socially pressured to spend money' unlike all other products on the planet.

    or are you just saying gambling adverts need to have the same regulation as tennis shoes when it comes to adverts because you give a fuck about the kids?

    not buying that shit for a second


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/comic-riffs/wp/2017/11/18/how-a-star-wars-video-game-faced-charges-that-it-was-promoting-gambling/?tid=sm_rd&utm_term=.623983b40b62
    not remotely related to what I just said.

    does anyone even read what I write?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 8,028
    This is their own fault their relentless greed will bring about consequences that will affect every other game that has this. Now that parents and religious folk have weighed in you're screwed.
    IselinlaseritOldKingLogGdemami
    Chamber of Chains
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,880
    cheyane said:
    This is their own fault their relentless greed will bring about consequences that will affect every other game that has this. Now that parents and religious folk have weighed in you're screwed.
    And they could have avoided the whole thing by having some restraint and self-regulating.
    laseritGdemami
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • heerobyaheerobya Member UncommonPosts: 465
    Let's be real here.

    Gaming is cheaper than ever relative to inflation, and games COST more to make then ever.

    DLC, loot boxes... industry does what industry needs to.

    Want to see DLC and micro transactions go away? Expect to pay $80-90+ (US) for a now $60 game.

    "I’ve made the argument over the last few years that games are essentially cheaper than they’ve ever been. An NES game in 1990 cost, on average, about $50. That’s $89 in 2013 money. Your $70 N64 cartridges in 1998 would require the equivalent of $100 today. Heck, the $50 PlayStation 2 game you bought in 2005 is worth $60, the exact price of a typical retail game in 2013. This isn't to say that salaries (or hourly pay) have kept up with inflation and the cost-of-living -- it decidedly hasn't -- but it is to say that, dollar-to-dollar over the past 35 years, gaming hardware and software is generally cheaper than ever."

    http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/10/15/the-real-cost-of-gaming-inflation-time-and-purchasing-power
    Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/469862/hawaiian-legislators-call-ea-loot-boxes-a-predatory-practice-star-wars-battlefront-ii-mmorpg/p3#2UyJTeeZYjhyUPxM.99
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