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"If we don't do that, then the game will never be finished." Port response to funding questions

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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,973
    SEANMCAD said:
    Supporting a kickstarter is like an investment, you put your money into an unknown and hope you get some benefit for it.

    With crowd funding, you are investing in the company for a hopeful experience where you have something special and investment is just going for more money.

    Cryomatrix 
    but like investments you are never guaranteed a positive return
    That's something rich people tell poor people before they take their money.  If the information flow is correct you will get a positive return.  Most correct information flows are very expensive to obtain or can only be accessed by a precious few.  
    Gdemami

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2017
    SEANMCAD said:
    Supporting a kickstarter is like an investment, you put your money into an unknown and hope you get some benefit for it.

    With crowd funding, you are investing in the company for a hopeful experience where you have something special and investment is just going for more money.

    Cryomatrix 
    but like investments you are never guaranteed a positive return
    That's something rich people tell poor people before they take their money.  If the information flow is correct you will get a positive return.  Most correct information flows are very expensive to obtain or can only be accessed by a precious few.  
    I am an investor and I can tell you, you are not guaranteed a positive return.

    here is the thing that so many here are struggling to understand, the future always delivers conditions that one does not expect. 
    In the vast majority of so called 'promises' there is always a large unknown about the future, buildings burn, people die, money gets stolen, people go rouge and loose all the cash, walls dont get built, courts supercede executive orders. and even though you have DESERVE the money it might not exist.
    There are very few exceptions, even your FDIC guaranteed iron clad major legal agreement to the interest in your bank account is not assured 10%
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • blorpykinsblorpykins Member RarePosts: 466
    SEANMCAD said:
    I am an investor and I can tell you, you are not guaranteed a positive return.

    here is the thing that so many here are struggling to understand, the future always delivers conditions that one does not expect. 
    In the vast majority of so called 'promises' there is always a large unknown about the future, buildings burn, people die, money gets stolen, people go rouge and loose all the cash, walls dont get built, courts supercede executive orders. and even though you have DESERVE the money it might not exist.
    There are very few exceptions, even your FDIC guaranteed iron clad major legal agreement to the interest in your bank account is not assured 10%
    I'm sure you're also a doctor, lawyer, president, holy man, and a time traveler.  That does not change the fact that when a publisher signs on to publish a game that they wouldn't want to see the game published.  This game has three publishers and still the developer says that if players for this Early Access title don't use the cash shop the game will not finish.  I don't need to see a contract to know that investors and especially publishers would want a product to make money.  Why wouldn't they want to at least try?
    GdemamiYashaXpostlarvalRawyn
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2017
    SEANMCAD said:
    I am an investor and I can tell you, you are not guaranteed a positive return.

    here is the thing that so many here are struggling to understand, the future always delivers conditions that one does not expect. 
    In the vast majority of so called 'promises' there is always a large unknown about the future, buildings burn, people die, money gets stolen, people go rouge and loose all the cash, walls dont get built, courts supercede executive orders. and even though you have DESERVE the money it might not exist.
    There are very few exceptions, even your FDIC guaranteed iron clad major legal agreement to the interest in your bank account is not assured 10%
    I'm sure you're also a doctor, lawyer, president, holy man, and a time traveler.  That does not change the fact that when a publisher signs on to publish a game that they wouldn't want to see the game published.  This game has three publishers and still the developer says that if players for this Early Access title don't use the cash shop the game will not finish.  I don't need to see a contract to know that investors and especially publishers would want a product to make money.  Why wouldn't they want to at least try?
    you are absolutely and totally WRONG. peroid.

    1. The developers are granted a budget, the increase or frankly cancellation of that budget is up to the publishers discretion or contract.
    2. Why in the love of god would a publisher continue to give money to a developer who is STEALING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or at least not doing a good job.


    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    blorpykins said:
     I don't need to see a contract to know that investors and especially publishers would want a product to make money.  Why wouldn't they want to at least try?
    Steam is also a publisher, do you say they also fund all the games listed?

    Like always, you make very false assumptions.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    "Crowdforging" at its finest. You keep paying for the construction of the game long after the "successful" Kickstarter, or you see your previous investments go down the drain :3
    YashaX

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    "Crowdforging" at its finest. You keep paying for the construction of the game long after the "successful" Kickstarter, or you see your previous investments go down the drain :3
    what I find interesting about all the successful crowd funding projects, is that it illustrates a very strong desire for many game ideas and concepts that prior to crowdfunding large publishers wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole. 

    I find it all very intresting

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    SEANMCAD said:
    "Crowdforging" at its finest. You keep paying for the construction of the game long after the "successful" Kickstarter, or you see your previous investments go down the drain :3
    what I find interesting about all the successful crowd funding projects, is that it illustrates a very strong desire for many game ideas and concepts that prior to crowdfunding large publishers wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole. 

    I find it all very intresting
    And that gamers are all too willing to fork over huge sums of money.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    "Crowdforging" at its finest. You keep paying for the construction of the game long after the "successful" Kickstarter, or you see your previous investments go down the drain :3
    what I find interesting about all the successful crowd funding projects, is that it illustrates a very strong desire for many game ideas and concepts that prior to crowdfunding large publishers wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole. 

    I find it all very intresting
    And that gamers are all too willing to fork over huge sums of money.
    well that is learned by looking at the exploits of the so called AAA market.

    But what I am getting at is that these ideas that big publishers refuse to do, are clearly something many people want to see done and guess what...they are getting done.
    Gdemamipostlarval

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • blorpykinsblorpykins Member RarePosts: 466
    SEANMCAD said:
    well that is learned by looking at the exploits of the so called AAA market.

    But what I am getting at is that these ideas that big publishers refuse to do, are clearly something many people want to see done and guess what...they are getting done.
    what the hell are you talking about?

    The OP is about Portalarium telling its backers that if they don't keep buying through the add-on store the game will never finish.
    Rawynpostlarval
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2017
    SEANMCAD said:
    well that is learned by looking at the exploits of the so called AAA market.

    But what I am getting at is that these ideas that big publishers refuse to do, are clearly something many people want to see done and guess what...they are getting done.
    what the hell are you talking about?

    The OP is about Portalarium telling its backers that if they don't keep buying through the add-on store the game will never finish.
    its a side note about crowdfunding in general, my apologies will you forgive me?

    to your point however, I have to ask you, would YOU expect a developer who is not responsible with money, projects and time management to make a good game in the first place?
    postlarval

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    "Crowdforging" at its finest. You keep paying for the construction of the game long after the "successful" Kickstarter, or you see your previous investments go down the drain :3
    what I find interesting about all the successful crowd funding projects, is that it illustrates a very strong desire for many game ideas and concepts that prior to crowdfunding large publishers wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole. 

    I find it all very intresting
    And that gamers are all too willing to fork over huge sums of money.
    well that is learned by looking at the exploits of the so called AAA market.

    But what I am getting at is that these ideas that big publishers refuse to do, are clearly something many people want to see done and guess what...they are getting done.
    The demand seems to be there, to a degree anyway. The "getting done" will depend a lot on what comes out of all that money. So far it's all been mediocrity. Not counting titles that have yet to be released, like SC, who still have a chance of proving crowdfunded MMO's can turn out well.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    SEANMCAD said:
    "Crowdforging" at its finest. You keep paying for the construction of the game long after the "successful" Kickstarter, or you see your previous investments go down the drain :3
    what I find interesting about all the successful crowd funding projects, is that it illustrates a very strong desire for many game ideas and concepts that prior to crowdfunding large publishers wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole. 

    I find it all very intresting
    And that gamers are all too willing to fork over huge sums of money.
    Maybe, maybe not.

    Doesn't matter whether its crowdfunding, early access or a published game seeking money to keep going or expand.

    At the end of the day it comes down to money. If a game or concept manages to attain "wide appeal" then people paying, on average, "small" sums of money will suffice. The more niche a game is or more correctly is perceived to be the higher the sums of money per person. Helps if the team making the game don't suck at promoting their product as well - although far to many seem to think this is totally unnecessary and adds nothing. 
    Azaron_Nightblade
  • blorpykinsblorpykins Member RarePosts: 466
    SEANMCAD said:
    its a side note about crowdfunding in general, my apologies will you forgive me?

    to your point however, I have to ask you, would YOU expect a developer who is not responsible with money, projects and time management to make a good game in the first place?
    I have my doubts about this developer's ability to manage their funds with any sort of business sense, but that does not make it so.  The game is unremarkable, even the RMT is boring but it does keep people playing.  I expect from this developer what I'd expect from any developer - to show a little respect to its backers and deliver on promises made that were made to get the funds needed to create the game.  They were supposed to launch the game many times already but they just stay in Early Access to keep funding flowing from the same group always.  I think everyone should EXPECT them to do their job that they were paid to do and finish the game AND publish the game since there are THREE publishers+ Steam.  What I do not expect is to be told that if I want to see the game finish and launch I have to give more money.  This is a buy once to play game.
    GdemamiRawyn
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    its a side note about crowdfunding in general, my apologies will you forgive me?

    to your point however, I have to ask you, would YOU expect a developer who is not responsible with money, projects and time management to make a good game in the first place?
    I have my doubts about this developer's ability to manage their funds with any sort of business sense, but that does not make it so.  The game is unremarkable, even the RMT is boring but it does keep people playing.  I expect from this developer what I'd expect from any developer - to show a little respect to its backers and deliver on promises made that were made to get the funds needed to create the game.  They were supposed to launch the game many times already but they just stay in Early Access to keep funding flowing from the same group always.  I think everyone should EXPECT them to do their job that they were paid to do and finish the game AND publish the game since there are THREE publishers+ Steam.  What I do not expect is to be told that if I want to see the game finish and launch I have to give more money.  This is a buy once to play game.
    you 'expect' this woefully unqualified developer to produce a game for these people.

    ok I got it. I think that is being overly sensitive and hyper SJW but you have the right to be that
    Azaron_NightbladeGdemamipostlarval

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 2,074
    edited November 2017
    SEANMCAD said:
    its a side note about crowdfunding in general, my apologies will you forgive me?

    to your point however, I have to ask you, would YOU expect a developer who is not responsible with money, projects and time management to make a good game in the first place?
    I have my doubts about this developer's ability to manage their funds with any sort of business sense, but that does not make it so.  The game is unremarkable, even the RMT is boring but it does keep people playing.  I expect from this developer what I'd expect from any developer - to show a little respect to its backers and deliver on promises made that were made to get the funds needed to create the game.  They were supposed to launch the game many times already but they just stay in Early Access to keep funding flowing from the same group always.  I think everyone should EXPECT them to do their job that they were paid to do and finish the game AND publish the game since there are THREE publishers+ Steam.  What I do not expect is to be told that if I want to see the game finish and launch I have to give more money.  This is a buy once to play game.
    Investing in crowdfunding to support the development of a game is risky business. Along with the promises made will have been disclaimers in the fine print in the event they couldn't deliver by a specific time frame, or even at all.

    Like any other investment there is a chance it won't work out as expected, by both those putting up the money and those spending it.

    If they've reached a state where yet more funding is required to get the game done and traditional sources of investment have now run dry, the only recourse they have is to seek more crowdfunding if the game is to come to fruition.

    Sucks, but that's one of those things that can happen when a project is backed by this kind of patchwork financing. Hopefully it will work out.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    its a side note about crowdfunding in general, my apologies will you forgive me?

    to your point however, I have to ask you, would YOU expect a developer who is not responsible with money, projects and time management to make a good game in the first place?
    I have my doubts about this developer's ability to manage their funds with any sort of business sense, but that does not make it so.  The game is unremarkable, even the RMT is boring but it does keep people playing.  I expect from this developer what I'd expect from any developer - to show a little respect to its backers and deliver on promises made that were made to get the funds needed to create the game.  They were supposed to launch the game many times already but they just stay in Early Access to keep funding flowing from the same group always.  I think everyone should EXPECT them to do their job that they were paid to do and finish the game AND publish the game since there are THREE publishers+ Steam.  What I do not expect is to be told that if I want to see the game finish and launch I have to give more money.  This is a buy once to play game.
    Investing in crowdfunding to support the development of a game is risky business. Along with the promises made will have been disclaimers in the fine print in the event they couldn't deliver by a specific time frame, or even at all.

    Like any other investment there is a chance it won't work out as expected, by both those putting up the money and those spending it.

    If they've reached a state where yet more funding is required to get the game done and traditional sources of investment have now run dry, the only recourse they have is to seek more crowdfunding if the game is to come to fruition.

    Sucks, but that's one of those things that can happen when a project is backed by this kind of patchwork financing. Hopefully it will work out.
    I think what he is thinking is that the developer used the money on strippers and BECAUSE of that injustice money can magically appear out of the sky and he can magically become an outstanding developer and the game can be made because its the SJW thing to do.

    reality takes some people very long to learn
    postlarval

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 2,074
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    its a side note about crowdfunding in general, my apologies will you forgive me?

    to your point however, I have to ask you, would YOU expect a developer who is not responsible with money, projects and time management to make a good game in the first place?
    I have my doubts about this developer's ability to manage their funds with any sort of business sense, but that does not make it so.  The game is unremarkable, even the RMT is boring but it does keep people playing.  I expect from this developer what I'd expect from any developer - to show a little respect to its backers and deliver on promises made that were made to get the funds needed to create the game.  They were supposed to launch the game many times already but they just stay in Early Access to keep funding flowing from the same group always.  I think everyone should EXPECT them to do their job that they were paid to do and finish the game AND publish the game since there are THREE publishers+ Steam.  What I do not expect is to be told that if I want to see the game finish and launch I have to give more money.  This is a buy once to play game.
    Investing in crowdfunding to support the development of a game is risky business. Along with the promises made will have been disclaimers in the fine print in the event they couldn't deliver by a specific time frame, or even at all.

    Like any other investment there is a chance it won't work out as expected, by both those putting up the money and those spending it.

    If they've reached a state where yet more funding is required to get the game done and traditional sources of investment have now run dry, the only recourse they have is to seek more crowdfunding if the game is to come to fruition.

    Sucks, but that's one of those things that can happen when a project is backed by this kind of patchwork financing. Hopefully it will work out.
    I think what he is thinking is that the developer used the money on strippers and BECAUSE of that injustice money can magically appear out of the sky and he can magically become an outstanding developer and the game can be made because its the SJW thing to do.

    reality takes some people very long to learn
    Well, you have to keep up the morale of the team somehow. It's a long haul.
    MadFrenchie
  • TekmonTekmon Member UncommonPosts: 28
    Some questions came up on Steam regarding launch and funding and Portalarium responded insinuating the cash shop is the only money driving development.  They go on to say no one is being forced to buy from their add-on store even though in the same paragraph they suggest that if people don't buy from the add-on store then the game won't ever be finished.

    Topic at hand is "When is Release". We are currently in Early Access with launch coming up very soon (we will announce more of these details later this year).
    The reason some things (not the majority by any stretch) are in the store is to ensure we can continue to develop and eventually finish the game. If we don't do that, then the game will never be finished. No one is forced to buy those items, so it is entirely up to you.


    The first mistake here is to believe the lie that Shroud of the Avatar is in early access.  It is not, the game was released, launched and made live, live, live 24/7 on July 28, 2016.  
    cielyRawyn
  • RawynRawyn Member UncommonPosts: 202
    edited December 2017
    Tekmon said:

    The first mistake here is to believe the lie that Shroud of the Avatar is in early access.  It is not, the game was released, launched and made live, live, live 24/7 on July 28, 2016.  
    That's exactly what a lot of people are missing with sneaky lyin devs. It released  in July 2016 but the devs keep sayin its early access because they're deceitful and because they're either so ashamed of it or they're afraid of losing the gravy train from the whales they got left. Either way its released and they're lying by hiding behind the Early Access excuse. Over 60k people bought this game, and all but maybe 200 or so peeps left it never to return again.

    The devs and whales don't seem to live in the same world as the rest of us do. This game is toast, it's sunk and their just waiting in the life raft desperately with no hope of rescue. It'll be interesting when they all start turning on each other to save face blaming everyone but themselves for this pathetic failure.
    Post edited by Rawyn on
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Rawyn said:
    Tekmon said:

    The first mistake here is to believe the lie that Shroud of the Avatar is in early access.  It is not, the game was released, launched and made live, live, live 24/7 on July 28, 2016.  
    That's exactly what a lot of people are missing with sneaky lyin devs. It released  in July 2016 but the devs keep sayin its early access because they're deceitful and because they're either so ashamed of it or they're afraid of losing the gravy train from the whales they got left. Either way its released and they're lying by hiding behind the Early Access excuse. Over 60k people bought this game, and all but maybe 200 or so peeps left it never to return again.

    The devs and whales don't seem to live in the same reality as the rest of us do. This game is toast, it's sunk and their just waiting in the life raft desperately with no hope of rescue. It'll be interesting when they all start turning on each other to save face blaming everyone but themselves for this pathetic failure.
    honestly most people who buy early access titles really dont care either way.

    when I look at Steam I see game that looks intresting, game play looks fun, I buy it, I dont care if its early access or not and I am not going to let that label hold me back from having fun playing it.

    I dont know if most gamers are like that but I bet a lot are, they just dont post on forums
    postlarval

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Aragon100Aragon100 Member RarePosts: 2,686
    edited November 2017
    Rawyn said:
    Tekmon said:

    The first mistake here is to believe the lie that Shroud of the Avatar is in early access.  It is not, the game was released, launched and made live, live, live 24/7 on July 28, 2016.  
    That's exactly what a lot of people are missing with sneaky lyin devs. It released  in July 2016 but the devs keep sayin its early access because they're deceitful and because they're either so ashamed of it or they're afraid of losing the gravy train from the whales they got left. Either way its released and they're lying by hiding behind the Early Access excuse. Over 60k people bought this game, and all but maybe 200 or so peeps left it never to return again.

    The devs and whales don't seem to live in the same reality as the rest of us do. This game is toast, it's sunk and their just waiting in the life raft desperately with no hope of rescue. It'll be interesting when they all start turning on each other to save face blaming everyone but themselves for this pathetic failure.
    Yeah it is released. I bet it will be panic for the one's that bought a castle for 30.000$ when they understand the population they have now is the only one they will get.

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/shroud-of-the-avatar-forsaken-virtues/shroud-of-the-avatar-crowdfunding

    Cant be fun investing that kind of money into a game and find out it is and will be a ghosttown.

    Edit: Developers and today community claim it is not a pay-to-win game. =)
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Aragon100 said:
    Rawyn said:
    Tekmon said:

    The first mistake here is to believe the lie that Shroud of the Avatar is in early access.  It is not, the game was released, launched and made live, live, live 24/7 on July 28, 2016.  
    That's exactly what a lot of people are missing with sneaky lyin devs. It released  in July 2016 but the devs keep sayin its early access because they're deceitful and because they're either so ashamed of it or they're afraid of losing the gravy train from the whales they got left. Either way its released and they're lying by hiding behind the Early Access excuse. Over 60k people bought this game, and all but maybe 200 or so peeps left it never to return again.

    The devs and whales don't seem to live in the same reality as the rest of us do. This game is toast, it's sunk and their just waiting in the life raft desperately with no hope of rescue. It'll be interesting when they all start turning on each other to save face blaming everyone but themselves for this pathetic failure.
    Yeah it is released. I bet it will be panic for the one's that bought a castle for 30.000$ when they understand the population they have now is the only one they will get.

    https://www.pcgamesn.com/shroud-of-the-avatar-forsaken-virtues/shroud-of-the-avatar-crowdfunding

    Cant be fun investing that kind of money into a game and find out it is and will be a ghosttown.

    Edit: Developers and today community claim it is not a pay-to-win game. =)
    somewhat depends on a persons motivation to play.

    I know its a mystery to many but some people do play MMOs not for the social aspect but rather for the depth of game play and for a small community of people.

    I personally enjoy low pop servers
    postlarval

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • blorpykinsblorpykins Member RarePosts: 466
    SEANMCAD said:

    I personally enjoy low pop servers

    Then you should love SotA.
    postlarval
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