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Why I don't like CIG ...

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  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited October 2017
    Ok fine enough, they asked them to implement the API because CIG wasn't able to do it. So its like advanced support for the system, customer has an issue, pays developer company to implement it for them. I wouldn't call that working together ...
    What you see here is pretty much what you outsourcing something to a certain company is, the same way CIG outsources the platform stuff to Turbulent.

    And that makes it so Faceware becomes part of SC's development for as long they have this involvement, either it is just to finish up one implementation, either they will work on expanding and improving the implemented tech and/or hardware... 
    Gdemami
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,882
    I agree there is a reading problem and a pretty easy decipher of the agenda.

    INNOVATION<<keyword...

    Latest advancements,maybe not invented but is claiming this is VERY knew and the op is saying it is not.
    The way terms and words are so easily tossed around,CIG could add one line of code to 2000 code and claim it is newest and a breakthrough.
    There  are a LOT of claims by CIG and a LOT of excuses to just keep grabbing money and keep selling ships while never releasing a finished product.

    So when is CIG going to announce a positive statement on the finished product,or do we just hear more of the release 3.8888.............to release 7.8985474743  and so on and son and another 50 ships hit the cash shop.

    If me,you ANYONE wants to play the FULL game,go look at the cash shop and add all those numbers up,it is seriously laughable.When i play a game i want FULL access to ALL content,ALL assets,you are not getting me to fork over thousands to play your unfinished game that will add yet more cash shop items seemingly every week.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    DataDay said:
    Sure you don't have to reinvent the wheel, stuff like nVidia Hairworks or IK systems are to complex to just reinvent them because they work.
    But only CIG is sounding as if they invented the wheel with new innovations from decades ago.

    That's not an argument. IK systems? You say they are "too complex" to"reinvent them"... its quite obvious that you are pulling this stuff out of your *** at this point. You seem to be putting up a front of being knowledgeable but it simply is not compelling enough to be taken seriously.
    You are not disproving anything I said, just falling back on the projection that CIG is claiming they are reinventing the wheel.

    Again its projection on your part, a means to confirm your own biases. Cut it out please. You can come up with a legitimate thing to criticize, but this simply is not it.

    Kefo said:
    Good thing this is about CIG and them attempting to pass off something that's been done before as advancements in innovation.

    There are many ways in which we advance technology and innovate upon whats been done in the past. In the same way we went from 16bit game systems to 64bit game systems, its a form of progression based on "existing technology". Comes across as intellectually lazy to suggest there are no advancements taking place here.

    Part of equation is implementation and the speed at which we can track as well as display facial animation. Tracking and processing speed is where the push has been, you need tracking for VR and speed to make it work in real time at a certain rate.

    Whats being done with star citizen is an advancement on many levels, however it takes some understanding of the subject to appreciate it.
    Going from 16 bit to 64 bit is an innovation if you are the person/studio doing it for the first time. Someone is blazing the trail and innovation while everyone else follows behind when it's easier.

    Using FOIP to track facial movements to translate in game has been done before years ago and no just improving the speed at which it translates to in game is not innovation, it's an improvement. An improvement that CIG had no hand in as they are using another companies work that thy paid for.

    I do like the poorly hidden attempt at an insult in your post though
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,576
    edited October 2017
    I laugh because this gives them another excuse and another 3rd party subcontractor to throw under the bus when they have to (claim) rewrite all that themselves (never going to do it). 

    This article is going to buy them another 3 years I would imagine.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited October 2017
    Kefo said:
    Using FOIP to track facial movements to translate in game has been done before years ago and no just improving the speed at which it translates to in game is not innovation, it's an improvement. An improvement that CIG had no hand in as they are using another companies work that thy paid for.
    USB 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and now 4.0, all improvements over what already existed branded innovations. This is huge in the technology both in hardware and software.

    If Faceware innovates within their work implemented in SC, CIG can claim "we innovate", simply because Faceware is part of the project at this stage (like every outsourced contractor), and is working for/with CIG in both the software technology being implemented and the hardware front.
    Gdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,434
    Kefo said:
    DataDay said:
    Sure you don't have to reinvent the wheel, stuff like nVidia Hairworks or IK systems are to complex to just reinvent them because they work.
    But only CIG is sounding as if they invented the wheel with new innovations from decades ago.

    That's not an argument. IK systems? You say they are "too complex" to"reinvent them"... its quite obvious that you are pulling this stuff out of your *** at this point. You seem to be putting up a front of being knowledgeable but it simply is not compelling enough to be taken seriously.
    You are not disproving anything I said, just falling back on the projection that CIG is claiming they are reinventing the wheel.

    Again its projection on your part, a means to confirm your own biases. Cut it out please. You can come up with a legitimate thing to criticize, but this simply is not it.

    Kefo said:
    Good thing this is about CIG and them attempting to pass off something that's been done before as advancements in innovation.

    There are many ways in which we advance technology and innovate upon whats been done in the past. In the same way we went from 16bit game systems to 64bit game systems, its a form of progression based on "existing technology". Comes across as intellectually lazy to suggest there are no advancements taking place here.

    Part of equation is implementation and the speed at which we can track as well as display facial animation. Tracking and processing speed is where the push has been, you need tracking for VR and speed to make it work in real time at a certain rate.

    Whats being done with star citizen is an advancement on many levels, however it takes some understanding of the subject to appreciate it.
    Going from 16 bit to 64 bit is an innovation if you are the person/studio doing it for the first time. Someone is blazing the trail and innovation while everyone else follows behind when it's easier.

    Using FOIP to track facial movements to translate in game has been done before years ago and no just improving the speed at which it translates to in game is not innovation, it's an improvement. An improvement that CIG had no hand in as they are using another companies work that thy paid for.

    I do like the poorly hidden attempt at an insult in your post though
    I think "understanding" in this case comes in a powder that you add water to and then drink. 
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,066
    edited October 2017
    This is exactly why I like CIG and Chris Roberts. He's not afraid to take risks and innovate, his games always aim to push tech and go further than before instead of doing the same old stuff but in "HD" like others.

    [mod edit]
    Post edited by Vaross on
    Gdemami
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    Using FOIP to track facial movements to translate in game has been done before years ago and no just improving the speed at which it translates to in game is not innovation, it's an improvement. An improvement that CIG had no hand in as they are using another companies work that thy paid for.
    USB 1.0, 2.0, 3.0 and now 4.0, all improvements over what already existed branded innovations. This is huge in the technology both in hardware and software.

    If Faceware innovates within their work implemented in SC, CIG can claim "we innovate", simply because Faceware is part of the project at this stage (like every outsourced contractor), and is working for/with CIG in both the software technology being implemented and the hardware front.
    That's kinda like firestone tires can say we are innovators because they are on a tesla right? Or maybe I can say I'm an innovator in my company because I was in the same room when a completely separate department comes up with a new product.

    If Faceware innovates something and it's holy shit the next big thing CIG can't claim they are the ones who are innovating. They can claim they were the first to adopt the tech or that their engine/game/coffee maker already uses this new tech but to have them claim they innovate because they use someone else's work is laughable.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,115
    Babuinix said:
    This is exactly why I like CIG and Chris Roberts. He's not afraid to take risks and innovate, his games always aim to push tech and go further than before instead of doing the same old stuff but in "HD" like others.

    And the fact that it seems to heavily trigger the usual's is cherry on top tbh :D
    Oh yeah because adding this feature is such an innovative risk. LOL



    KresharthkitaradKyleran

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,846
    Orinori said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Taking credit for others work is another thing I hear about from the old days.   

    'My brilliant design!'   Likely nowadays, that means it was actually developed by one of the magic Germans.  
    I dont see 'my design' anywhere, looking for it all over the place..no findy

    and people question that marketing is not effective.
    He extols his brilliance, when it was member of the team that actually did the work, found the solution. 
    I guess this is what happened with your SoE friends? certainly would explain all the hatred they like to share with you about CR! 
    Origin Systems.  The SoE expat folks  I knew left long ago.  Don't know anyone from Digital Anvil.  The only CIG vet I know wasn't too talkative, but said it was not a fun place to work.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,846
    Babuinix said:
    This is exactly why I like CIG and Chris Roberts. He's not afraid to take risks and innovate, his games always aim to push tech and go further than before instead of doing the same old stuff but in "HD" like others.

    And the fact that it seems to heavily trigger the usual's is cherry on top tbh :D
    You say innovative, I say arrogant and ego-maniacal.   It's been decades since Roberts released anything innovative.  Decades since he's released anything.....

    We'll see -- but I'm not worried.  The cat has not changed his stripes....

    Hopefully Roberts screws up enough that he gets forced out and someone competent takes the reins.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    Here is a quick video promoting some of the advancements and innovation that may be on display at CitizenCon with this feature. Please feel free to watch the EQ video above for amusement also.


    GdemamiShodanas
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    Innovations like this are what's needed to save PC Gaming.
    Can't you guys see?
    Gdemami

    ..Cake..

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,438
    sgel said:
    Innovations like this are what's needed to save PC Gaming.
    Can't you guys see?
    No. All increases in game development costs are pushing developments to multi-platform for larger audience and revenues. If we want PC gaming to be more than another way to run console game, then we need innovations that aren't related to AAA graphics.
     
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited October 2017
    Kefo said:
    If Faceware innovates something and it's holy shit the next big thing CIG can't claim they are the ones who are innovating. They can claim they were the first to adopt the tech or that their engine/game/coffee maker already uses this new tech but to have them claim they innovate because they use someone else's work is laughable.
    When you use "we inovated" and you are working with Faceware, then Faceware is part of "we" in case, so that would be as far as it goes, likely we can even see Faceware's logo when booting up the game once this stuff gets added.

    So we will see what they will be capable to do when it comes to improving the take at FOIP we've seen before in that obviously more realistic approach they need to take here.
    Gdemami
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    edited October 2017
    Vrika said:
    sgel said:
    Innovations like this are what's needed to save PC Gaming.
    Can't you guys see?
    No. All increases in game development costs are pushing developments to multi-platform for larger audience and revenues. If we want PC gaming to be more than another way to run console game, then we need innovations that aren't related to AAA graphics.
    You can't save PC Gaming by providing to consoles.
    That's why CIG is making a thoroughbred PC Game.
    You only need a basic package for you, as a PC gamer, to be saved but if you pledge more, your salvation will come sooner and will be more fidelious.

    You don't need to pay more, even though thousands of other players have, but you don't need to so Star Citizen is not Pay to be Win. ok?
    You can still win if you don't pay but we'd like to see you try noob.

    PC Gaming salvation isn't free.


    GdemamiKefo

    ..Cake..

  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 993
    edited October 2017
    Nilden said:
    Babuinix said:
    This is exactly why I like CIG and Chris Roberts. He's not afraid to take risks and innovate, his games always aim to push tech and go further than before instead of doing the same old stuff but in "HD" like others.

    And the fact that it seems to heavily trigger the usual's is cherry on top tbh :D
    Oh yeah because adding this feature is such an innovative risk. LOL



    Kefo said:
    I don't follow faceware and what they do so I couldn't make that comment. Good thing this is about CIG and them attempting to pass off something that's been done before as advancements in innovation. Please take your strawmen elsewhere

    What are you both on about, no one is saying adding the tech to their game is innovative. 

    How hard is that to understand?.......Who am i kidding, i'll make it easier.

    Definition:
    Technological innovations comprise new products and processes and significant technological changes of products and processes

    So yes, the tech was around before, but since then it has moved forward, it has had "significant technological changes" since then and the people that have done this, which is FaceWare, are in partnership with CIG and they will be showing it off at their convention. 


    At the end of the day, as always, people have made a big fuss over fuck all. 


    GdemamiDataDayOdeezee
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,379
    I didn't think it possible to come up with a hair splitting thread more inane than one about what constitutes a MMO but this one managed to actually do so.

    Great work!  ;)
    CrazKanuklaserit

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

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  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,392
    I do not like pineapple on pizza.

    Until now I thought the internet did not care, but after seeing two pages of response on someone not liking CiG, I changed my mind.
    Orinori
  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    hfztt said:
    I do not like pineapple on pizza.
    It's these kind of opinions that make me worried for humanity.
    JamesGoblin
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,258
    Orinori said:
    hfztt said:
    I do not like pineapple on pizza.
    It's these kind of opinions that make me worried for humanity.
    I love pineapple and I love pizza but I don't like pineapple on pizza. 
    hfztt
    Martens: "With all due respect, madam, where are you going with this?"
    Avasarala: "Wherever I goddamn like."
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    Taking credit for others work is another thing I hear about from the old days.   

    'My brilliant design!'   Likely nowadays, that means it was actually developed by one of the magic Germans.  
    I dont see 'my design' anywhere, looking for it all over the place..no findy

    and people question that marketing is not effective.
    Listen to Roberts bloviate on his past games and you'll hear that attitude a lot.  He extols his brilliance, when it was member of the team that actually did the work, found the solution.  Except in Cinematics, where he was actually pretty innovative for the time.  Didn't help him in the Wing Commander movie though.

    That sort of overblown rhetoric is a marketing trope, of course.
    and that of course is no difference from any other company ever.
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    sgel said:
    Innovations like this are what's needed to save PC Gaming.
    Can't you guys see?
    PC gaming no longer needs saved. Its an old meme. 
    For the past 4 years or so PC gaming has been going gangbusters and I would think mostly because of Steam and all those 'indies' people here complain about.
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • RusqueRusque Member RarePosts: 2,785
    Why I don't like CIG: Erillion.
    Odeezee
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    edited October 2017
    Rusque said:
    Why I don't like CIG: Erillion.
    ** bows and smiles **

    If only i was at CIG that sentence would almost make sense ;-)



    Have fun
    Odeezee
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