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Why I don't like CIG ...

Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787

Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at the #CitizenCon Tech Gallery. #FaceOverIP

08:30 - 26. Okt. 2017

- FaceOverIP has not been developed by CIG
- FaceOverIP Protokoll has not been developed by CIG
- FaceOverIP is a tech that EQ2 used many years ago
- To Implement FaceOverIP you just have to bind your Blendshapes (that are in the character models nevertheless) to the FOIP system
- FOIP is something that should be implemented after all character model stuff is set up else it wastes to much manhours
- Hell FOIP should be implemented as an extra after your gameloops are working and tested

Its like you buy a LEGO starship model, assemble it and call it your innovation.
The fact that they are hyping this again right before CitizenCon is worrying at best.

When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.

BabuinixFrodoFraginsOctagon7711kikoodutroa8Odeezee
«1345

Comments

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited October 2017

    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at the #CitizenCon Tech Gallery. #FaceOverIP

    08:30 - 26. Okt. 2017

    - FaceOverIP has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP Protokoll has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP is a tech that EQ2 used many years ago
    - To Implement FaceOverIP you just have to bind your Blendshapes (that are in the character models nevertheless) to the FOIP system
    - FOIP is something that should be implemented after all character model stuff is set up else it wastes to much manhours
    - Hell FOIP should be implemented as an extra after your gameloops are working and tested

    Its like you buy a LEGO starship model, assemble it and call it your innovation.
    The fact that they are hyping this again right before CitizenCon is worrying at best.

    the tweet does not say that they claim to have invented or even developed anything.

    a bit anal reason to hate them dont you think?
    GdemamiBabuinixDarkpigeonOdeezee

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229

    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at the #CitizenCon Tech Gallery. #FaceOverIP

    08:30 - 26. Okt. 2017

    - FaceOverIP has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP Protokoll has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP is a tech that EQ2 used many years ago
    - To Implement FaceOverIP you just have to bind your Blendshapes (that are in the character models nevertheless) to the FOIP system
    - FOIP is something that should be implemented after all character model stuff is set up else it wastes to much manhours
    - Hell FOIP should be implemented as an extra after your gameloops are working and tested

    Its like you buy a LEGO starship model, assemble it and call it your innovation.
    The fact that they are hyping this again right before CitizenCon is worrying at best.

    It's what they do best outside of ship sales. Take someone else's idea or something that has been done before and tell everyone how innovative they are. 
    BabuinixDarkpigeonOctagon7711
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Kefo said:

    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at the #CitizenCon Tech Gallery. #FaceOverIP

    08:30 - 26. Okt. 2017

    - FaceOverIP has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP Protokoll has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP is a tech that EQ2 used many years ago
    - To Implement FaceOverIP you just have to bind your Blendshapes (that are in the character models nevertheless) to the FOIP system
    - FOIP is something that should be implemented after all character model stuff is set up else it wastes to much manhours
    - Hell FOIP should be implemented as an extra after your gameloops are working and tested

    Its like you buy a LEGO starship model, assemble it and call it your innovation.
    The fact that they are hyping this again right before CitizenCon is worrying at best.

    It's what they do best outside of ship sales. Take someone else's idea or something that has been done before and tell everyone how innovative they are. 
    there seems to be a reading problem as of late. The tweet does not say that they created this innovation. Clever marketing? yes of course, ridiculous common everywhere? yes people need to pay attention
    GdemamiBabuinixOdeezee

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited October 2017
    I think because tomorrow people are actually going to be allowed to sit down and play with it themselves.

    From how this tech is developing, it seems it can end up as the best take at FOIP we've seen, it'd be cool to see the downsides of this tech being mitigated to popularize its usage.
    Gdemami
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kefo said:

    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at the #CitizenCon Tech Gallery. #FaceOverIP

    08:30 - 26. Okt. 2017

    - FaceOverIP has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP Protokoll has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP is a tech that EQ2 used many years ago
    - To Implement FaceOverIP you just have to bind your Blendshapes (that are in the character models nevertheless) to the FOIP system
    - FOIP is something that should be implemented after all character model stuff is set up else it wastes to much manhours
    - Hell FOIP should be implemented as an extra after your gameloops are working and tested

    Its like you buy a LEGO starship model, assemble it and call it your innovation.
    The fact that they are hyping this again right before CitizenCon is worrying at best.

    It's what they do best outside of ship sales. Take someone else's idea or something that has been done before and tell everyone how innovative they are. 
    there seems to be a reading problem as of late. The tweet does not say that they created this innovation. Clever marketing? yes of course, ridiculous common everywhere? yes people need to pay attention
    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at my Convention! #QuadLayeredMaskablePBRShader

    Now when you read this - is your first thought I invented it or do you think that I bought this as a plugin and just added it into my system?

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kefo said:

    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at the #CitizenCon Tech Gallery. #FaceOverIP

    08:30 - 26. Okt. 2017

    - FaceOverIP has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP Protokoll has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP is a tech that EQ2 used many years ago
    - To Implement FaceOverIP you just have to bind your Blendshapes (that are in the character models nevertheless) to the FOIP system
    - FOIP is something that should be implemented after all character model stuff is set up else it wastes to much manhours
    - Hell FOIP should be implemented as an extra after your gameloops are working and tested

    Its like you buy a LEGO starship model, assemble it and call it your innovation.
    The fact that they are hyping this again right before CitizenCon is worrying at best.

    It's what they do best outside of ship sales. Take someone else's idea or something that has been done before and tell everyone how innovative they are. 
    there seems to be a reading problem as of late. The tweet does not say that they created this innovation. Clever marketing? yes of course, ridiculous common everywhere? yes people need to pay attention
    "with the latest advancements in technological innovation"

    this isnt an advancement by any stretch of the imagination since SOE was doing it years ago and so it can't be innovation either.

    To say you are showing off the latest advancements in innovation is implying you were the ones to come up with it.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    Now when you read this - is your first thought I invented it or do you think that I bought this as a plugin and just added it into my system?
    They've been pretty clear about this technology belonging to FaceWare not them, and hence the partnership.
    GdemamiDarkpigeon
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,305
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kefo said:

    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at the #CitizenCon Tech Gallery. #FaceOverIP

    08:30 - 26. Okt. 2017

    - FaceOverIP has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP Protokoll has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP is a tech that EQ2 used many years ago
    - To Implement FaceOverIP you just have to bind your Blendshapes (that are in the character models nevertheless) to the FOIP system
    - FOIP is something that should be implemented after all character model stuff is set up else it wastes to much manhours
    - Hell FOIP should be implemented as an extra after your gameloops are working and tested

    Its like you buy a LEGO starship model, assemble it and call it your innovation.
    The fact that they are hyping this again right before CitizenCon is worrying at best.

    It's what they do best outside of ship sales. Take someone else's idea or something that has been done before and tell everyone how innovative they are. 
    there seems to be a reading problem as of late. The tweet does not say that they created this innovation. Clever marketing? yes of course, ridiculous common everywhere? yes people need to pay attention
    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at my Convention! #QuadLayeredMaskablePBRShader

    Now when you read this - is your first thought I invented it or do you think that I bought this as a plugin and just added it into my system?
    My impression is that I would probably get some hands on with the technology (as in see my own facial expressions work with the tech)

    Nothing more. 
    MaxBacon

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    MaxBacon said:
    Now when you read this - is your first thought I invented it or do you think that I bought this as a plugin and just added it into my system?
    They've been pretty clear about this technology belonging to FaceWare not them, and hence the partnership.
    This Twitter article is sounding as if they have created it as an innovation. In the past when they introduced it they surely mentioned it - but in this twitter feed it sounds different.
    They did this for marketing purposes to punch over their weight.
    Darkpigeon

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited October 2017
    This Twitter article is sounding as if they have created it as an innovation. In the past when they introduced it they surely mentioned it - but in this twitter feed it sounds different.
    They did this for marketing purposes to punch over their weight.
    Faceware is working with them as one outsourcing partnership (same with Turbulent), so they are part of Star Citizen's development, they can absolutely put it as "we created".

    Would be different if this was just them licensing their tech ofc.
    GdemamiDarkpigeon
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited October 2017
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kefo said:

    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at the #CitizenCon Tech Gallery. #FaceOverIP

    08:30 - 26. Okt. 2017

    - FaceOverIP has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP Protokoll has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP is a tech that EQ2 used many years ago
    - To Implement FaceOverIP you just have to bind your Blendshapes (that are in the character models nevertheless) to the FOIP system
    - FOIP is something that should be implemented after all character model stuff is set up else it wastes to much manhours
    - Hell FOIP should be implemented as an extra after your gameloops are working and tested

    Its like you buy a LEGO starship model, assemble it and call it your innovation.
    The fact that they are hyping this again right before CitizenCon is worrying at best.

    It's what they do best outside of ship sales. Take someone else's idea or something that has been done before and tell everyone how innovative they are. 
    there seems to be a reading problem as of late. The tweet does not say that they created this innovation. Clever marketing? yes of course, ridiculous common everywhere? yes people need to pay attention
    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at my Convention! #QuadLayeredMaskablePBRShader

    Now when you read this - is your first thought I invented it or do you think that I bought this as a plugin and just added it into my system?
    that is because its marketing. They are intentionally writting it that way but if you read they are NOT saying they invented it.

    you know why? because they could get into legal trouble if they said it explictly.

    all companies do this

    they also did NOT say 'my' in what I am reading. why did you change the quote?
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited October 2017
    MaxBacon said:
    Now when you read this - is your first thought I invented it or do you think that I bought this as a plugin and just added it into my system?
    They've been pretty clear about this technology belonging to FaceWare not them, and hence the partnership.
    This Twitter article is sounding as if they have created it as an innovation. In the past when they introduced it they surely mentioned it - but in this twitter feed it sounds different.
    They did this for marketing purposes to punch over their weight.
    its common marketing language that all companies use. I assure you with 100% confidence that if they had invented or developed face over IP they would have been extreemly explict about who created it and they would have said it likely multiple times
    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    MaxBacon said:
    This Twitter article is sounding as if they have created it as an innovation. In the past when they introduced it they surely mentioned it - but in this twitter feed it sounds different.
    They did this for marketing purposes to punch over their weight.
    Faceware is working with them as one outsourcing partnership (same with Turbulent), so they are part of Star Citizen's development, they can absolutely put it as "we created".

    Would be different if this was just them licensing their tech ofc.
    but that is the thing. They are not saying 'we created'. This is why marketing works so well. It appears to have passed by everyone other than I guess me.

    GdemamiDarkpigeon

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,538
    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at my Convention! #QuadLayeredMaskablePBRShader

    Now when you read this - is your first thought I invented it or do you think that I bought this as a plugin and just added it into my system?
    My first thought after reading your post is that you have a massive confirmation bias problem.

    Game development uses a ton of 3rd party software and technology, why would you assume everything is developed 100% in house. Hell even the game engine they are using is based off work from Crytek and now Amazon game studios.

    Basically you are showing us that you have no real concept of how development works, and instead seem to grasp at straws in some crusade to prove your anti-star citizen bias.

    To be quite frank, its embarrassing.
    GdemamiOrinoriErillionFrodoFraginsDarkpigeonCrazKanukShodanas
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,845
    Taking credit for others work is another thing I hear about from the old days.   

    'My brilliant design!'   Likely nowadays, that means it was actually developed by one of the magic Germans.  

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited October 2017
    Taking credit for others work is another thing I hear about from the old days.   

    'My brilliant design!'   Likely nowadays, that means it was actually developed by one of the magic Germans.  
    I dont see 'my design' anywhere, looking for it all over the place..no findy

    and people question that marketing is not effective.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Lol, we'll add it to the list.
    FrodoFragins

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    Kefo said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kefo said:

    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at the #CitizenCon Tech Gallery. #FaceOverIP

    08:30 - 26. Okt. 2017

    - FaceOverIP has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP Protokoll has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP is a tech that EQ2 used many years ago
    - To Implement FaceOverIP you just have to bind your Blendshapes (that are in the character models nevertheless) to the FOIP system
    - FOIP is something that should be implemented after all character model stuff is set up else it wastes to much manhours
    - Hell FOIP should be implemented as an extra after your gameloops are working and tested

    Its like you buy a LEGO starship model, assemble it and call it your innovation.
    The fact that they are hyping this again right before CitizenCon is worrying at best.

    It's what they do best outside of ship sales. Take someone else's idea or something that has been done before and tell everyone how innovative they are. 
    there seems to be a reading problem as of late. The tweet does not say that they created this innovation. Clever marketing? yes of course, ridiculous common everywhere? yes people need to pay attention
    "with the latest advancements in technological innovation"

    this isnt an advancement by any stretch of the imagination since SOE was doing it years ago and so it can't be innovation either.

    To say you are showing off the latest advancements in innovation is implying you were the ones to come up with it.
    You want to tell FaceWare that their stuff isn't innovative and they have not advanced it any over the years?

    Alright, have fun!

    as to OP, I was under impression that you already disliked CIG, interesting to discover that it was THIS TWEET that made you dislike CIG and you were pretty cool with them before ^^.  as for your diagnosis with implementation techniques it sounds like you have lots of experience with it! would like to see that.
    Shodanas
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,845
    SEANMCAD said:
    Taking credit for others work is another thing I hear about from the old days.   

    'My brilliant design!'   Likely nowadays, that means it was actually developed by one of the magic Germans.  
    I dont see 'my design' anywhere, looking for it all over the place..no findy

    and people question that marketing is not effective.
    Listen to Roberts bloviate on his past games and you'll hear that attitude a lot.  He extols his brilliance, when it was member of the team that actually did the work, found the solution.  Except in Cinematics, where he was actually pretty innovative for the time.  Didn't help him in the Wing Commander movie though.

    That sort of overblown rhetoric is a marketing trope, of course.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    DataDay said:
    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at my Convention! #QuadLayeredMaskablePBRShader

    Now when you read this - is your first thought I invented it or do you think that I bought this as a plugin and just added it into my system?
    My first thought after reading your post is that you have a massive confirmation bias problem.

    Game development uses a ton of 3rd party software and technology, why would you assume everything is developed 100% in house. Hell even the game engine they are using is based off work from Crytek and now Amazon game studios.

    Basically you are showing us that you have no real concept of how development works, and instead seem to grasp at straws in some crusade to prove your anti-star citizen bias.

    To be quite frank, its embarrassing.
    Sure you don't have to reinvent the wheel, stuff like nVidia Hairworks or IK systems are to complex to just reinvent them because they work.
    But only CIG is sounding as if they invented the wheel with new innovations from decades ago.

    @MaxBacon
    Faceware is not programming for CIG where do you get your information? They have APIs for the common game engines have a tutorial video from may 2015 how to implement faceware into your cry3 game.

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    SEANMCAD said:
    Taking credit for others work is another thing I hear about from the old days.   

    'My brilliant design!'   Likely nowadays, that means it was actually developed by one of the magic Germans.  
    I dont see 'my design' anywhere, looking for it all over the place..no findy

    and people question that marketing is not effective.
    He extols his brilliance, when it was member of the team that actually did the work, found the solution. 
    I guess this is what happened with your SoE friends? certainly would explain all the hatred they like to share with you about CR! 
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited October 2017
    Faceware is not programming for CIG where do you get your information? They have APIs for the common game engines have a tutorial video from may 2015 how to implement faceware into your cry3 game.
    You can even refer to the original announcement if you want, CIG reached them and asked them to integrate their technology into the engine to allow FOIP in real time in one MP environment. It's not CIG simply licensing their tech and implementing it, they are working together on it.
    Gdemami
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Orinori said:
    Kefo said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kefo said:

    Get up close with the latest advancements in technological innovation at the #CitizenCon Tech Gallery. #FaceOverIP

    08:30 - 26. Okt. 2017

    - FaceOverIP has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP Protokoll has not been developed by CIG
    - FaceOverIP is a tech that EQ2 used many years ago
    - To Implement FaceOverIP you just have to bind your Blendshapes (that are in the character models nevertheless) to the FOIP system
    - FOIP is something that should be implemented after all character model stuff is set up else it wastes to much manhours
    - Hell FOIP should be implemented as an extra after your gameloops are working and tested

    Its like you buy a LEGO starship model, assemble it and call it your innovation.
    The fact that they are hyping this again right before CitizenCon is worrying at best.

    It's what they do best outside of ship sales. Take someone else's idea or something that has been done before and tell everyone how innovative they are. 
    there seems to be a reading problem as of late. The tweet does not say that they created this innovation. Clever marketing? yes of course, ridiculous common everywhere? yes people need to pay attention
    "with the latest advancements in technological innovation"

    this isnt an advancement by any stretch of the imagination since SOE was doing it years ago and so it can't be innovation either.

    To say you are showing off the latest advancements in innovation is implying you were the ones to come up with it.
    You want to tell FaceWare that their stuff isn't innovative and they have not advanced it any over the years?

    Alright, have fun!

    as to OP, I was under impression that you already disliked CIG, interesting to discover that it was THIS TWEET that made you dislike CIG and you were pretty cool with them before ^^.  as for your diagnosis with implementation techniques it sounds like you have lots of experience with it! would like to see that.
    I don't follow faceware and what they do so I couldn't make that comment. Good thing this is about CIG and them attempting to pass off something that's been done before as advancements in innovation. Please take your strawmen elsewhere
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    MaxBacon said:
    Faceware is not programming for CIG where do you get your information? They have APIs for the common game engines have a tutorial video from may 2015 how to implement faceware into your cry3 game.
    You can even refer to the original announcement if you want, CIG reached them and asked them to integrate their technology into the engine to allow FOIP in real time in one MP environment. It's not CIG simply licensing their tech and implementing it, they are working together on it.
    Ok fine enough, they asked them to implement the API because CIG wasn't able to do it. So its like advanced support for the system, customer has an issue, pays developer company to implement it for them. I wouldn't call that working together ...

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • DataDayDataDay Member UncommonPosts: 1,538
    edited October 2017
    Sure you don't have to reinvent the wheel, stuff like nVidia Hairworks or IK systems are to complex to just reinvent them because they work.
    But only CIG is sounding as if they invented the wheel with new innovations from decades ago.

    That's not an argument. IK systems? You say they are "too complex" to"reinvent them"... its quite obvious that you are pulling this stuff out of your *** at this point. You seem to be putting up a front of being knowledgeable but it simply is not compelling enough to be taken seriously.
    You are not disproving anything I said, just falling back on the projection that CIG is claiming they are reinventing the wheel.

    Again its projection on your part, a means to confirm your own biases. Cut it out please. You can come up with a legitimate thing to criticize, but this simply is not it.

    Kefo said:
    Good thing this is about CIG and them attempting to pass off something that's been done before as advancements in innovation.

    There are many ways in which we advance technology and innovate upon whats been done in the past. In the same way we went from 16bit game systems to 64bit game systems, its a form of progression based on "existing technology". Comes across as intellectually lazy to suggest there are no advancements taking place here.

    Part of equation is implementation and the speed at which we can track as well as display facial animation. Tracking and processing speed is where the push has been, you need tracking for VR and speed to make it work in real time at a certain rate.

    Whats being done with star citizen is an advancement on many levels, however it takes some understanding of the subject to appreciate it.
    MaxBaconGdemamiSaxx0nOrinori
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