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It's hard to get involved with LOTRO, The model doesn't work for new players

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  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,837
    Saying 'this isn't the game for them' just doesn't cut it for me. It could be the game for them if they just packaged all the expansions at a reasonable cost. $60 purchase and subscription required.

    So basically what you are saying is the game is cheap shit and not worth their asking price.




    Hummmmmm... I'm not going to argue with that.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    Ungood said:
    Saying 'this isn't the game for them' just doesn't cut it for me. It could be the game for them if they just packaged all the expansions at a reasonable cost. $60 purchase and subscription required.

    So basically what you are saying is the game is cheap shit and not worth their asking price.




    Hummmmmm... I'm not going to argue with that.
    lol

    Around $150 with $15 a month on top of that is ridiculous by anyone's standards for a single game.

    Even though LOTRO is my favourite MMO ever I sometimes have a hard time recommending it to people because, in terms of value (money and/or time spent bypassing the payment model), there are many, many far better options out there.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,678
    edited May 2019
    lol

    Around $150 with $15 a month on top of that is ridiculous by anyone's standards for a single game.

    Even though LOTRO is my favourite MMO ever I sometimes have a hard time recommending it to people because, in terms of value (money and/or time spent bypassing the payment model), there are many, many far better options out there.
    With using sales and timing right it could be down to about $40-50 (not counting Mordor), as it was discussed multiple times already in the past. Mordor is different, they really went nuts with the pricing at that time.

    I still used to recommend it to people and don't have hard time with it, the difference is maybe that I also ask their preferences and giving suggestions for the long run as well... telling them the 1month VIP, the usual times of Quad Pack sales, etc.  :smiley:


    " in terms of value (money and/or time spent bypassing the payment model), "
    That's what I was talking about before. LotRO ain't like those games, doesn't want to be, and don't compete with those.
    If the people you suggest games to are seeking games with easy, free, and everything at the same time, then LotRO is not the game for them.


    ed:
    (which ain't a fault or something negative, by the way. Not an "error" needing a fix. For an avid PvE player you won't suggest EVE, for an avid "I won't spend a dime" player you won't suggest FF XIV, etc. 
    LotRO doesn't give a smooth free access to the entire game and then try to take the money at the end, like those "many, many far better options out there" .
    It starts to ask your money more sooner. On the long run however, it is much cheaper overall. Long run is maybe a few years.
    If that approach, and length, doesn't cater the free riders jumping from game to game all the time? So what...  )
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,837
    Ungood said:
    Saying 'this isn't the game for them' just doesn't cut it for me. It could be the game for them if they just packaged all the expansions at a reasonable cost. $60 purchase and subscription required.

    So basically what you are saying is the game is cheap shit and not worth their asking price.




    Hummmmmm... I'm not going to argue with that.
    lol

    Around $150 with $15 a month on top of that is ridiculous by anyone's standards for a single game.

    Even though LOTRO is my favourite MMO ever I sometimes have a hard time recommending it to people because, in terms of value (money and/or time spent bypassing the payment model), there are many, many far better options out there.
    I just dumped $120 for a founders pack in Crowfall, and they plan to have some kind of Sub system when they go live.

    Was looking at Camelot Unchained, but to get the all in package was $450.. so..i kinda balked on that one..

    but I bought GW2, box set, $100, then I pre-ordered HoT $150 (which sucked IMHO), and, then waited for a sale on PoF, for $35.

    given all that ... what do I know about the value of games these days.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,845
    Ungood said:
    Saying 'this isn't the game for them' just doesn't cut it for me. It could be the game for them if they just packaged all the expansions at a reasonable cost. $60 purchase and subscription required.

    So basically what you are saying is the game is cheap shit and not worth their asking price.




    Hummmmmm... I'm not going to argue with that.
    lol

    Around $150 with $15 a month on top of that is ridiculous by anyone's standards for a single game.

    Even though LOTRO is my favourite MMO ever I sometimes have a hard time recommending it to people because, in terms of value (money and/or time spent bypassing the payment model), there are many, many far better options out there.
    But isn't that technically over time?

    The cost that is.

    15 dollars a month is a pittance if you just play it 2 hours per month. Most people will play more per month.

    and then once you get to a particular point for the expansion you pay whatever that costs.

    I would never play the game "for free by earning turbine points." That's just the worst way to play it.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,678
    edited May 2019
    Sovrath said:
    I would never play the game "for free by earning turbine points." That's just the worst way to play it.
    Not a pleasant route, that's for sure... just an option. A viable one, though. Many players play fully free.


    With the risk of sounding like a broken record, LotRO's f2p is not comparable to more recent f2p models. It was one of the first games (following DDO's switch), it was about options(*), and I believe it stood the test of time. It doesn't give you the entire game as a lure for an easy playthrough, while making money on whales and convenience - as a matter of fact, "whale" doesn't even work in LotRO. (though since Mordor they try to steer the model into that direction sadly)

    * by options I mean it's easier to get it from the subscription POV, than to expect (and even demand) a fully free experience a'la STO for example.

    Like with sub games, you can jump in with a new account and play until Lone-lands, around level 30 (same level as FFXIV for example). After that you can subscribe, and buy the expansions just like in sub games - except in those the subscription is mandatory, while LotRO gives you two other options:
    - put in the effort of legwork (grind) and play fully free
    - put in the effort of brainwork, use the Store and purchase one by one, etc.  Placing yourself on the scale of spending/convenience and free/grind, inbetween wherever it's the most comfortable for your style and wallet.
  • Saur0n69Saur0n69 Member UncommonPosts: 44
    It's a Lord of the Rings mmorpg.  *mic drop*
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,678
    Gorwe said:
    What about the Quad Pack though? It's a bloody good value for money invested, especially if bought for like sub 10$ on sale. Then you can (sub and) see what you think of it.
    I just posted two days ago (to Nebless, about in-game expansion purchases) that
    "The Quad-Pack for $20, or sometimes even for $10 is an offer the in-game store can't compete with."

    As a matter of fact the state of expansions could be a more meaningful discussion than the f2p change or the locked quest packs I believe.
    Wow included its expansions into the subscription, FFXIV gives it away (temporarily) for free to promote the new one...

    While not an exact comparison since in LotRO you can access the expansions areas for free, just as well the main story and the mechanics in them (LI, warsteeds).
    What you can't access until purchase is the regular quests (which is the meat and potato of the expansions of course), the raids, and the bonus goodies (extra classes, character slots, cosmetics, etc.)

    Still, they could ease up the price tag on them, like a permanent price drop of the Quad-Pack to $20, and sales for $10.
    Gorwe
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,261
    Gorwe said:
    What about the Quad Pack though? It's a bloody good value for money invested, especially if bought for like sub 10$ on sale. Then you can (sub and) see what you think of it.
    This. It has been on sale several times and offers insane value. And as someone who owns all in LotRO and has been playing on and off since launch there really isn’t a need to be subbed all the time while enjoying the game.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Po_ggUngoodGorwe
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Saying 'this isn't the game for them' just doesn't cut it for me. It could be the game for them if they just packaged all the expansions at a reasonable cost. $60 purchase and subscription required.

    So basically what you are saying is the game is cheap shit and not worth their asking price.




    Hummmmmm... I'm not going to argue with that.
    lol

    Around $150 with $15 a month on top of that is ridiculous by anyone's standards for a single game.

    Even though LOTRO is my favourite MMO ever I sometimes have a hard time recommending it to people because, in terms of value (money and/or time spent bypassing the payment model), there are many, many far better options out there.
    I just dumped $120 for a founders pack in Crowfall, and they plan to have some kind of Sub system when they go live.

    Was looking at Camelot Unchained, but to get the all in package was $450.. so..i kinda balked on that one..

    but I bought GW2, box set, $100, then I pre-ordered HoT $150 (which sucked IMHO), and, then waited for a sale on PoF, for $35.

    given all that ... what do I know about the value of games these days.
    You're paying for a lot of extra stuff though. Those are clearly collector's editions and things like that.. or things that get you early access. You're a different type of customer.
    Ungood
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member EpicPosts: 5,678
    lahnmir said:
    This. It has been on sale several times and offers insane value. And as someone who owns all in LotRO and has been playing on and off since launch there really isn’t a need to be subbed all the time while enjoying the game.
    Exactly, that's what I meant by longevity. I'm in the same shoes, own all the content and I believe the last time I was VIP for a month was sometime in the second half of the last year...

    Sure it doesn't help the instant gratification, "all the access, right now, and free" kinda players :smile:  LotRO is about the journey, smelling the roses on the way (funniest skill in the game), and not about jumping in the game for a month, "beat the game", and moving on.
    Since most of those players don't spend a dime on games, I don't think LotRO should cater that playstyle with its model, but that's just my opinion.
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    Sovrath said:
    Ungood said:
    Saying 'this isn't the game for them' just doesn't cut it for me. It could be the game for them if they just packaged all the expansions at a reasonable cost. $60 purchase and subscription required.

    So basically what you are saying is the game is cheap shit and not worth their asking price.




    Hummmmmm... I'm not going to argue with that.
    lol

    Around $150 with $15 a month on top of that is ridiculous by anyone's standards for a single game.

    Even though LOTRO is my favourite MMO ever I sometimes have a hard time recommending it to people because, in terms of value (money and/or time spent bypassing the payment model), there are many, many far better options out there.
    But isn't that technically over time?

    The cost that is.

    15 dollars a month is a pittance if you just play it 2 hours per month. Most people will play more per month.

    and then once you get to a particular point for the expansion you pay whatever that costs.

    I would never play the game "for free by earning turbine points." That's just the worst way to play it.
    Yeh, mileage varies I'm sure. I've seen people go through Moria in about 2 days. Obviously, they didn't do everything there, not even close, but if you're not sticking around to complete deeds then you can roll through them pretty fast. Some people might stay there for a whole month and take it all in too.

    Thing is, when a new player sees everything there is to buy, they have no idea how quickly they are going to need to buy it which then results in the first impression problem I mentioned in an earlier post.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    Gorwe said:
    What about the Quad Pack though? It's a bloody good value for money invested, especially if bought for like sub 10$ on sale. Then you can (sub and) see what you think of it.
    It is good value and you can get everything pretty cheap if you manage to get it on sale. But, a new player that might be hopping around trying to find their next big game isn't likely to sit around waiting for 3 or 4 months to get a good deal after trying it. I'm willing to bet most won't anyway. The big sales only happen once or twice a year really. Loads of people that try it won't even know about how good the sales can be in the first place.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,837
    lahnmir said:
    Gorwe said:
    What about the Quad Pack though? It's a bloody good value for money invested, especially if bought for like sub 10$ on sale. Then you can (sub and) see what you think of it.
    This. It has been on sale several times and offers insane value. And as someone who owns all in LotRO and has been playing on and off since launch there really isn’t a need to be subbed all the time while enjoying the game.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    This is what I did with DDO. Since you can buy the content as you go, it became a better deal. When I first started, I grabbed an Annual Sub, just to get the all of the game quick and easy, then when that sub ran out, I used the points I got to buy packs when they were on sale, or get points when they were on sale, along with collecting points from playing the game, by the time I left I owned everything. I recently started to play again, and now, I have returned with a "Meh, I'll get it when it goes on sale" kind of feel to playing the game.

    I still think the idea of selling content, as opposed to gambling type loot boxes, is the best system for funding and progressing a game, as the players get more game to play, and still have to earn their shiny loots.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • foxgirlfoxgirl Member RarePosts: 359
    I have no idea what the OP is getting at. What deal? What package? It reads like they were angry and just typing away without trying to make coherent sentences. O.o
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