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It's hard to get involved with LOTRO, The model doesn't work for new players

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  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,052
    LOTR enjoys a reputation that I have seen posted by many, many players that it is one of the better older games and still quite enjoyable, including for new players. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,031
    Gutlard said:
    I bought the Lifetime sub a while before F2P happened, so I guess I dodged the bullet there. I've been able to buy all the expansions with the TP that's built up every month from that sub. Some of you sound like you're getting free, but complaining about not getting free++.

    Nothing's really free, which is why when I hear about a game going F2P I immediately think of what things are going to be gimped for it...

    If peeps have lots of patience/time then they can earn enough of whatever currency to get everything absolutely "free", but it wasn't really free right? Because those peeps are actually paying the most for free stuff with the most finite currency of time.

    I've never been able to fully enjoy any F2P game I've tried and never expect to.

    I guess I necroed this thread....ha

    My bad. I just comment on posts that catch my interest.

    Apparently peeps still have feels for it though, yikes!

    Gut Out!
    Was a good necro.. missed that.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,052
    Ungood said:
    Was a good necro.. missed that.
    Well shame on me. I didn't know it was a necro thread.
    Ungood

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,019
    edited May 2019
    I'm enjoying this, so does that make me a necrophiliac? Is that bad on forums?

    I'm assuming if it wasn't meant to happen all threads with no activity (post or reading) after a certain amount of time would get locked, and then those would get deleted eventually.

    Sorry, I joined in '10, and tbh I didn't really read the rules then either....ha  >:) :p ;)

    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    Nothing wrong with necroing a topic if it's still relevant 
    katzklawHatefull
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,567
    Ungood said:
    It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players. Quest packs cause instant uninstalls. Seeing there's about 6 expansions to buy causes instant uninstalls.

    I wish they would do it. They don't seem to understand that populating the world encourages those that will pay for things to keep playing. Those that will only play for free.. will only play for free or uninstall. They will never get any money out of those people but having them around makes it a better experience for those that do pay for things.
    Because.. everyone that did buy those all those quests packs or expansions will feel slighted. GW2 discovered that one when they made Core F2P, and the people that had bought Core got quite into the tizzy about it.

    I have not played LotRO, but I have played DDo quite a bit (Same company) and in DDO, dumping a bunch of F2P players that just want a free game and everything handed to them does not help the game at all. In fact, when they did some revival a few years ago, I think it was some anniversary thing they had going on, also all the older players that  knew in game ran off to the Paid Content to get away from the swarm of F2P players coming in.

    Truth is, the idea that these F2P bodies floating around a game help it, to be honest, I have not seen any truth to this. 

    Again, this depends on the game, but DDO was not a game for the faint or weak player, so, in that case, if needing to invest in the game got people to uninstall, then it was best they installed, and those that remained where the right kind of people for that game, with the right mindset, that would do well in that game environment and be the best additions to the game overall. These would be the players that would fit in with the existing guilds, the existing groups, and by and large, be the most welcome to that community.

    In a game that is all about population and just social events, like say something more like GW2, by all means, maybe the F2P was not a bad idea to just put bodies out there. 
    But the barrier to entry also drives a ton of potential customers away. Which are actually more important than a few old hold outs who bought everything. Nothing can grow or be successful without new customers.

    If they did it like ESO where you got a TON of stuff for subbing and all the DLC (besides expansions), that be a ton better

    But for any new customer, its many 100s of USD to buy everything...I saw that and logged off and uninstalled the game. It be more expensive to play LOTRO than BDO or WoW or ESO. Not worth it.

    And that isn't me being a small amount of people who do that, that is a lot of new players they just don't post about it.

    There is a reason Turbine/Standing Stone Games are dying, and its because they are barely getting any new customers that actually stay with their games...and I do actually see a lot of the reason is how expensive it is to play (at least for LOTRO, and it isn't like they have that many games they are managing, its just DDO and LOTRO right? But it is a dying company)

    Deybreak Games also has ran into the same issue. EQ2 has been dying for a while, they put more and more focus into cash shop, more and more people leave because of the cash shop and then they have to put more focus into the cash shop that causes even more people to leave. And LOTRO has been running down the same path

    None of these games survive longterm because the companies see short term greed.
    Do you keep those DLCs once you unsub from ESO?
    katzklaw
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,159
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players. Quest packs cause instant uninstalls. Seeing there's about 6 expansions to buy causes instant uninstalls.

    I wish they would do it. They don't seem to understand that populating the world encourages those that will pay for things to keep playing. Those that will only play for free.. will only play for free or uninstall. They will never get any money out of those people but having them around makes it a better experience for those that do pay for things.
    Because.. everyone that did buy those all those quests packs or expansions will feel slighted. GW2 discovered that one when they made Core F2P, and the people that had bought Core got quite into the tizzy about it.

    I have not played LotRO, but I have played DDo quite a bit (Same company) and in DDO, dumping a bunch of F2P players that just want a free game and everything handed to them does not help the game at all. In fact, when they did some revival a few years ago, I think it was some anniversary thing they had going on, also all the older players that  knew in game ran off to the Paid Content to get away from the swarm of F2P players coming in.

    Truth is, the idea that these F2P bodies floating around a game help it, to be honest, I have not seen any truth to this. 

    Again, this depends on the game, but DDO was not a game for the faint or weak player, so, in that case, if needing to invest in the game got people to uninstall, then it was best they installed, and those that remained where the right kind of people for that game, with the right mindset, that would do well in that game environment and be the best additions to the game overall. These would be the players that would fit in with the existing guilds, the existing groups, and by and large, be the most welcome to that community.

    In a game that is all about population and just social events, like say something more like GW2, by all means, maybe the F2P was not a bad idea to just put bodies out there. 
    But the barrier to entry also drives a ton of potential customers away. Which are actually more important than a few old hold outs who bought everything. Nothing can grow or be successful without new customers.

    If they did it like ESO where you got a TON of stuff for subbing and all the DLC (besides expansions), that be a ton better

    But for any new customer, its many 100s of USD to buy everything...I saw that and logged off and uninstalled the game. It be more expensive to play LOTRO than BDO or WoW or ESO. Not worth it.

    And that isn't me being a small amount of people who do that, that is a lot of new players they just don't post about it.

    There is a reason Turbine/Standing Stone Games are dying, and its because they are barely getting any new customers that actually stay with their games...and I do actually see a lot of the reason is how expensive it is to play (at least for LOTRO, and it isn't like they have that many games they are managing, its just DDO and LOTRO right? But it is a dying company)

    Deybreak Games also has ran into the same issue. EQ2 has been dying for a while, they put more and more focus into cash shop, more and more people leave because of the cash shop and then they have to put more focus into the cash shop that causes even more people to leave. And LOTRO has been running down the same path

    None of these games survive longterm because the companies see short term greed.
    Do you keep those DLCs once you unsub from ESO?
    Depends. With ESO Plus, you get I think 1500 credits a month, so you can technically buy the DLCs you want (which is ok since not all of them are hits imo). The value zenimax seems to think each DLC is worth is a bit skewed imo generally meant to drive people towards ESO Plus, that and the craft bag. They really need to look at crafting cause mats from CP10(?) to CP150 are pretty much useless.
  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,487
    Hi,

    if someone could point me in the direction of what was posted thats great value, i'd love to take another look.

    Thanks.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,031
    Ungood said:
    It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players. Quest packs cause instant uninstalls. Seeing there's about 6 expansions to buy causes instant uninstalls.

    I wish they would do it. They don't seem to understand that populating the world encourages those that will pay for things to keep playing. Those that will only play for free.. will only play for free or uninstall. They will never get any money out of those people but having them around makes it a better experience for those that do pay for things.
    Because.. everyone that did buy those all those quests packs or expansions will feel slighted. GW2 discovered that one when they made Core F2P, and the people that had bought Core got quite into the tizzy about it.

    I have not played LotRO, but I have played DDo quite a bit (Same company) and in DDO, dumping a bunch of F2P players that just want a free game and everything handed to them does not help the game at all. In fact, when they did some revival a few years ago, I think it was some anniversary thing they had going on, also all the older players that  knew in game ran off to the Paid Content to get away from the swarm of F2P players coming in.

    Truth is, the idea that these F2P bodies floating around a game help it, to be honest, I have not seen any truth to this. 

    Again, this depends on the game, but DDO was not a game for the faint or weak player, so, in that case, if needing to invest in the game got people to uninstall, then it was best they installed, and those that remained where the right kind of people for that game, with the right mindset, that would do well in that game environment and be the best additions to the game overall. These would be the players that would fit in with the existing guilds, the existing groups, and by and large, be the most welcome to that community.

    In a game that is all about population and just social events, like say something more like GW2, by all means, maybe the F2P was not a bad idea to just put bodies out there. 
    But the barrier to entry also drives a ton of potential customers away. Which are actually more important than a few old hold outs who bought everything. Nothing can grow or be successful without new customers.

    If they did it like ESO where you got a TON of stuff for subbing and all the DLC (besides expansions), that be a ton better

    But for any new customer, its many 100s of USD to buy everything...I saw that and logged off and uninstalled the game. It be more expensive to play LOTRO than BDO or WoW or ESO. Not worth it.

    And that isn't me being a small amount of people who do that, that is a lot of new players they just don't post about it.

    There is a reason Turbine/Standing Stone Games are dying, and its because they are barely getting any new customers that actually stay with their games...and I do actually see a lot of the reason is how expensive it is to play (at least for LOTRO, and it isn't like they have that many games they are managing, its just DDO and LOTRO right? But it is a dying company)

    Deybreak Games also has ran into the same issue. EQ2 has been dying for a while, they put more and more focus into cash shop, more and more people leave because of the cash shop and then they have to put more focus into the cash shop that causes even more people to leave. And LOTRO has been running down the same path

    None of these games survive longterm because the companies see short term greed.
    Not sure how LotRO works.

    So. I am just going to use use their sister game DDO.

    I want to say this very clear. DDO does offer a Sub, in fact their sub offers access to all DLC as well as a few other perks, they also offer other methods to buy the game, that allowes players to play for free, and buy the DLC content piecemeal as they went.

    This has become Nicknamed "The Turbine Model" because they invented this system.

    Basically, ESO is using Turbines model, not the other way around.

    So if you were that worried about content, and needing to shell out hundreds, don't be, you can pick up the sub, and try everything in the game for a month, and get some perks, like Game points, and some other perks, as well as enough time to do a fast favor run and get even more points. 

    With that said, yes, DDO is a dying game, and has always been a dying game, since its inception in 2006, when it was a generic sub game like everyone else, it has been a dying game, that is what motivated them to be one of the first games to go F2P in 2009, their success was so good that they set the trend, and many other MMO's jumped ship with them trying their own F2P systems.

    But DDO dying has nothing to do with their payment system. in fact their payment model is by far the best model any company has come up with, as selling DLC, motivates them to keep putting out more and more content to sell, so the game never becomes stagnant, players never "own it all" and it keeps growing as a game.

    I am sure everyone would rather be see more DLC content added to the game in the form of quests, dungeons, raids, and explorer zones, even if they had to buy them individually (or pay the sub and just get access) than say.. Lootboxes.

    katzklaw
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,031
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players. Quest packs cause instant uninstalls. Seeing there's about 6 expansions to buy causes instant uninstalls.

    I wish they would do it. They don't seem to understand that populating the world encourages those that will pay for things to keep playing. Those that will only play for free.. will only play for free or uninstall. They will never get any money out of those people but having them around makes it a better experience for those that do pay for things.
    Because.. everyone that did buy those all those quests packs or expansions will feel slighted. GW2 discovered that one when they made Core F2P, and the people that had bought Core got quite into the tizzy about it.

    I have not played LotRO, but I have played DDo quite a bit (Same company) and in DDO, dumping a bunch of F2P players that just want a free game and everything handed to them does not help the game at all. In fact, when they did some revival a few years ago, I think it was some anniversary thing they had going on, also all the older players that  knew in game ran off to the Paid Content to get away from the swarm of F2P players coming in.

    Truth is, the idea that these F2P bodies floating around a game help it, to be honest, I have not seen any truth to this. 

    Again, this depends on the game, but DDO was not a game for the faint or weak player, so, in that case, if needing to invest in the game got people to uninstall, then it was best they installed, and those that remained where the right kind of people for that game, with the right mindset, that would do well in that game environment and be the best additions to the game overall. These would be the players that would fit in with the existing guilds, the existing groups, and by and large, be the most welcome to that community.

    In a game that is all about population and just social events, like say something more like GW2, by all means, maybe the F2P was not a bad idea to just put bodies out there. 
    But the barrier to entry also drives a ton of potential customers away. Which are actually more important than a few old hold outs who bought everything. Nothing can grow or be successful without new customers.

    If they did it like ESO where you got a TON of stuff for subbing and all the DLC (besides expansions), that be a ton better

    But for any new customer, its many 100s of USD to buy everything...I saw that and logged off and uninstalled the game. It be more expensive to play LOTRO than BDO or WoW or ESO. Not worth it.

    And that isn't me being a small amount of people who do that, that is a lot of new players they just don't post about it.

    There is a reason Turbine/Standing Stone Games are dying, and its because they are barely getting any new customers that actually stay with their games...and I do actually see a lot of the reason is how expensive it is to play (at least for LOTRO, and it isn't like they have that many games they are managing, its just DDO and LOTRO right? But it is a dying company)

    Deybreak Games also has ran into the same issue. EQ2 has been dying for a while, they put more and more focus into cash shop, more and more people leave because of the cash shop and then they have to put more focus into the cash shop that causes even more people to leave. And LOTRO has been running down the same path

    None of these games survive longterm because the companies see short term greed.
    Do you keep those DLCs once you unsub from ESO?
    In DDO, there are 3 tiers. ViP, Premium, and Free.

    • ViP is anyone with an Active Sub, and offers its own perks.
    • Premium is an account that has spent real money on the game, and has its own perks (If you cancel a sub, you become a premium)
    • Free Account is an account that has not spent any money on the game.

    If at any time you cancel your sub, you keep everything you have purchased or earned in the game. This includes anything you directly bought, as well as all favor rewards, gear, etc, you keep, as well as any points you have acclimated from being ViP, which you can then use to buy anything you want, including access to the content.

    You only lose the perks of the Sub itself, (like additional character slots, first life elite unlock, and like a few other vastly insignificant things, IE: being able to put 99 things on the auction house as opposed to the 50 listings that premiums get, or some such nonsense, they may have done away with this as well for all I know)

    Anyway, the Sub is a really great way to walk in and get full access to the game, to give it a try, with the option that if you want to stay long term, you can opt to just buy the content and never worry about paying a sub again. The choice is yours.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,567
    edited May 2019
    Ungood said:
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players. Quest packs cause instant uninstalls. Seeing there's about 6 expansions to buy causes instant uninstalls.

    I wish they would do it. They don't seem to understand that populating the world encourages those that will pay for things to keep playing. Those that will only play for free.. will only play for free or uninstall. They will never get any money out of those people but having them around makes it a better experience for those that do pay for things.
    Because.. everyone that did buy those all those quests packs or expansions will feel slighted. GW2 discovered that one when they made Core F2P, and the people that had bought Core got quite into the tizzy about it.

    I have not played LotRO, but I have played DDo quite a bit (Same company) and in DDO, dumping a bunch of F2P players that just want a free game and everything handed to them does not help the game at all. In fact, when they did some revival a few years ago, I think it was some anniversary thing they had going on, also all the older players that  knew in game ran off to the Paid Content to get away from the swarm of F2P players coming in.

    Truth is, the idea that these F2P bodies floating around a game help it, to be honest, I have not seen any truth to this. 

    Again, this depends on the game, but DDO was not a game for the faint or weak player, so, in that case, if needing to invest in the game got people to uninstall, then it was best they installed, and those that remained where the right kind of people for that game, with the right mindset, that would do well in that game environment and be the best additions to the game overall. These would be the players that would fit in with the existing guilds, the existing groups, and by and large, be the most welcome to that community.

    In a game that is all about population and just social events, like say something more like GW2, by all means, maybe the F2P was not a bad idea to just put bodies out there. 
    But the barrier to entry also drives a ton of potential customers away. Which are actually more important than a few old hold outs who bought everything. Nothing can grow or be successful without new customers.

    If they did it like ESO where you got a TON of stuff for subbing and all the DLC (besides expansions), that be a ton better

    But for any new customer, its many 100s of USD to buy everything...I saw that and logged off and uninstalled the game. It be more expensive to play LOTRO than BDO or WoW or ESO. Not worth it.

    And that isn't me being a small amount of people who do that, that is a lot of new players they just don't post about it.

    There is a reason Turbine/Standing Stone Games are dying, and its because they are barely getting any new customers that actually stay with their games...and I do actually see a lot of the reason is how expensive it is to play (at least for LOTRO, and it isn't like they have that many games they are managing, its just DDO and LOTRO right? But it is a dying company)

    Deybreak Games also has ran into the same issue. EQ2 has been dying for a while, they put more and more focus into cash shop, more and more people leave because of the cash shop and then they have to put more focus into the cash shop that causes even more people to leave. And LOTRO has been running down the same path

    None of these games survive longterm because the companies see short term greed.
    Do you keep those DLCs once you unsub from ESO?
    In DDO, there are 3 tiers. ViP, Premium, and Free.

    • ViP is anyone with an Active Sub, and offers its own perks.
    • Premium is an account that has spent real money on the game, and has its own perks (If you cancel a sub, you become a premium)
    • Free Account is an account that has not spent any money on the game.

    If at any time you cancel your sub, you keep everything you have purchased or earned in the game. This includes anything you directly bought, as well as all favor rewards, gear, etc, you keep, as well as any points you have acclimated from being ViP, which you can then use to buy anything you want, including access to the content.

    You only lose the perks of the Sub itself, (like additional character slots, first life elite unlock, and like a few other vastly insignificant things, IE: being able to put 99 things on the auction house as opposed to the 50 listings that premiums get, or some such nonsense, they may have done away with this as well for all I know)

    Anyway, the Sub is a really great way to walk in and get full access to the game, to give it a try, with the option that if you want to stay long term, you can opt to just buy the content and never worry about paying a sub again. The choice is yours.
    I prefer SWTOR's method. You sub, you get the DLC forever. And you get the Pref.Bundle which contains most of things you could possibly need. This is highly detrimental to the profitability of the game, which only reinforces the overabundance of cash shop items. It's a vicious cycle, but I get what I need / want, so why should I care? ;)
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,031
    edited May 2019
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    Gorwe said:
    Ungood said:
    It is true that LOTRO would benefit greatly from making about 80% of the content available to ftp players. Quest packs cause instant uninstalls. Seeing there's about 6 expansions to buy causes instant uninstalls.

    I wish they would do it. They don't seem to understand that populating the world encourages those that will pay for things to keep playing. Those that will only play for free.. will only play for free or uninstall. They will never get any money out of those people but having them around makes it a better experience for those that do pay for things.
    Because.. everyone that did buy those all those quests packs or expansions will feel slighted. GW2 discovered that one when they made Core F2P, and the people that had bought Core got quite into the tizzy about it.

    I have not played LotRO, but I have played DDo quite a bit (Same company) and in DDO, dumping a bunch of F2P players that just want a free game and everything handed to them does not help the game at all. In fact, when they did some revival a few years ago, I think it was some anniversary thing they had going on, also all the older players that  knew in game ran off to the Paid Content to get away from the swarm of F2P players coming in.

    Truth is, the idea that these F2P bodies floating around a game help it, to be honest, I have not seen any truth to this. 

    Again, this depends on the game, but DDO was not a game for the faint or weak player, so, in that case, if needing to invest in the game got people to uninstall, then it was best they installed, and those that remained where the right kind of people for that game, with the right mindset, that would do well in that game environment and be the best additions to the game overall. These would be the players that would fit in with the existing guilds, the existing groups, and by and large, be the most welcome to that community.

    In a game that is all about population and just social events, like say something more like GW2, by all means, maybe the F2P was not a bad idea to just put bodies out there. 
    But the barrier to entry also drives a ton of potential customers away. Which are actually more important than a few old hold outs who bought everything. Nothing can grow or be successful without new customers.

    If they did it like ESO where you got a TON of stuff for subbing and all the DLC (besides expansions), that be a ton better

    But for any new customer, its many 100s of USD to buy everything...I saw that and logged off and uninstalled the game. It be more expensive to play LOTRO than BDO or WoW or ESO. Not worth it.

    And that isn't me being a small amount of people who do that, that is a lot of new players they just don't post about it.

    There is a reason Turbine/Standing Stone Games are dying, and its because they are barely getting any new customers that actually stay with their games...and I do actually see a lot of the reason is how expensive it is to play (at least for LOTRO, and it isn't like they have that many games they are managing, its just DDO and LOTRO right? But it is a dying company)

    Deybreak Games also has ran into the same issue. EQ2 has been dying for a while, they put more and more focus into cash shop, more and more people leave because of the cash shop and then they have to put more focus into the cash shop that causes even more people to leave. And LOTRO has been running down the same path

    None of these games survive longterm because the companies see short term greed.
    Do you keep those DLCs once you unsub from ESO?
    In DDO, there are 3 tiers. ViP, Premium, and Free.

    • ViP is anyone with an Active Sub, and offers its own perks.
    • Premium is an account that has spent real money on the game, and has its own perks (If you cancel a sub, you become a premium)
    • Free Account is an account that has not spent any money on the game.

    If at any time you cancel your sub, you keep everything you have purchased or earned in the game. This includes anything you directly bought, as well as all favor rewards, gear, etc, you keep, as well as any points you have acclimated from being ViP, which you can then use to buy anything you want, including access to the content.

    You only lose the perks of the Sub itself, (like additional character slots, first life elite unlock, and like a few other vastly insignificant things, IE: being able to put 99 things on the auction house as opposed to the 50 listings that premiums get, or some such nonsense, they may have done away with this as well for all I know)

    Anyway, the Sub is a really great way to walk in and get full access to the game, to give it a try, with the option that if you want to stay long term, you can opt to just buy the content and never worry about paying a sub again. The choice is yours.
    I prefer SWTOR's method. You sub, you get the DLC forever. And you get the Pref.Bundle which contains most of things you could possibly need. This is highly detrimental to the profitability of the game, which only reinforces the overabundance of cash shop items. It's a vicious cycle, but I get what I need / want, so why should I care? ;)
    I believe we are having, what is called a failure to communicate.

    Because it sounds like what you are saying, is that if I pay sub fee for any length of time, I get everything forever, even if I stop paying the sub.

    Which I am going to bet is not what happens in SWTOR.

    If I need to keep paying the sub, it is Not everything forever, it is simply full access as long as I pay the sub, which is what DDO has been offering since before SWTOR existed.
    katzklaw
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • UtinniUtinni Member EpicPosts: 1,872
    I tried lotro for a few months and never had any issues. I didn't free-to-play though. I found it mostly fun as a solo MMO like swtor. Great for those who like to chill grind etc. 
    Ungood
  • katzklawkatzklaw Member UncommonPosts: 83
    edited May 2019

    There is a reason Turbine/Standing Stone Games are dying, and its because they are barely getting any new customers that actually stay with their games...and I do actually see a lot of the reason is how expensive it is to play (at least for LOTRO, and it isn't like they have that many games they are managing, its just DDO and LOTRO right? But it is a dying company)


    None of these games survive longterm because the companies see short term greed.
    SSG is not dying because of their payment model. DDO is 13 years old this year. Their current payment model was implemented 10 years ago, and it totally revitalized a game that was already dying then...it has been hailed as a huge success, to the point that many other game makers started to emulate it. 

    SSG/DDO/LotRO are dying because of poor decisions/management of the games themselves. (not too sure about LotRO, as i never actually played that one, but seeing as they're both owned by the same people, i imagine similar problems have plagued both)

    DDO has an awesome IP... very desirable niche, and a lot of the most loyal players are big into D&D.  as the years have gone on, different programmers have left their marks on how the game works, for better or for worse. some of those changes made the game feel less like Dungeons and Dragons... online.. and more like generic_mmo_01, which was not why people play DDO.  that, buggy gameplay, exploitable bugs, and several loot and loot-gen revamps have frustrated people and driven many away.  

    honestly, the payment model is great. you get a taste for free. if you are persistent, you can get everything for free given enough time. it's to whet your appetite. like what you see? pay the sub and get it all*. get bored, stop paying the sub. if you want to return, you still can play free.. or at least log on and chat with your old friends.  (also, paying the sub nets you "free" points, so you CAN buy all the bits and bobs here and there over time, so you can retain access to things you're interested in even after dropping a sub). 

    if what you see from the free taste doesn't make you WANT to pay for it... it's not the game for you.  i had NO problem whatsoever dropping the sub fee within a week of starting to play, and i carried on paying it for over a year. i'm now in the "premium" bracket, and i own everything except for one pack, which i'm not interested in and was never going to buy anyway. patience in waiting for sales and double and triple bonus point deals saved me a lot of cash, and i, of course, earned points just by playing. i feel it was a good investment. i can walk away from the game, and come back 6 months later and still be able to play without needing to pay again to start playing again.


    *VIP subscription in DDO does not include the paid expansions, of which there are currently 3 with a 4th coming out within the next couple weeks. however, even tho VIP doesn't cover access to these packs, you can purchase them via points in game after a while... and as has been mentioned, more than once, points can be earned in game.
    Ungood
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    edited May 2019
    Ungood said:


    Because it sounds like what you are saying, is that if I pay sub fee for any length of time, I get everything forever, even if I stop paying the sub.

    Which I am going to bet is not what happens in SWTOR.
    That is exactly what happens.

    If you sub for 1 month in SWTOR you have access to all expansions and content up to that point.. permanently.

    Galactic Command endgame progression system and an unlimited currency cap require an active sub though.. so you still have to sub to play the game optimally at 'absolute' endgame.
    GorweUngood
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 12,898
    edited May 2019
    Delete you would have a point if all the other MMos had wonderful cash shops and had yet to become totally easy mode. Well it would be a fair point even if there was a tiny number of such MMOs, but I am struggling of thinking of any now that are subscription and not easy mode, maybe FFXIV?

    So despite those drawbacks, Lotro still stands out as an excellent MMO, you mentioned community, join a good guild, that will give you a community on a plate, you will have to look into what guilds are around and what they focus on but it is well worth it.
    Ungood

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  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Member EpicPosts: 2,180
    edited May 2019
    The problem for LotRO is TurSSG does not have WB money behind them now. They don't have the money or manpower for a huge game overhaul ( it's taken them years just to get close to a 64bit client ), and certainly don't have the money for mass marketing anymore. Given the fact they've gone to Mordor and are now just scraping together whatever story they can make from surrounding areas just to keep old players invested, I doubt highly TurSSG really cares about new players at this point. Sure, they're happy to have them, but they're not what's putting food on the table. New players are a nice bonus, but old player retention is what will keep the lights on another year or so.
    Ungood


    MMORPG.COM took away my swinging cheerleader butt .gif.

  • NeblessNebless Member RarePosts: 1,415
    LOTRO payment model is a piece of junk

    What does LOTRO sub give you? Nothing really

    Unlike ESO, subbing to LOTRO gives you junk. You still have to buy 100s of dollars of dlc, you don't get anything amazing for subbing like ESO gives you and the daily free stuff is junk compared to BDO

    LOTRO is the least worthwhile MMO to pay for and even subbing you don't get anything good like you do in ESO. 


    I'm not sure we've played the same version of LotRO. 

    When you sub you get access to all area's that ARE NOT expansions, that means all regions from lvl 1 to 75, 83 to 85 and then 110-115.  Which means you could actually SKIP the first 3 expansions just in terms of leveling.  https://www.lotro.com/en/lotro-store-quest-packs

    You also get 500 store points a month which you can use to BUY the expansions.  Nothing extra out of pocket, just the monthly store points you get from having a sub means you can buy an expansion (quest pack not the full blown version with raids & extra shiney's) every 3 months and of course as you play you earn free store points too so that should speed up the buying process.

    I'll give you the 2 free daily login gifts might not be much, but you can't have everything.
    katzklawUngoodScot

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO - GnH (beta tester) - SWToR - Neverwinter

  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,031
    Ungood said:


    Because it sounds like what you are saying, is that if I pay sub fee for any length of time, I get everything forever, even if I stop paying the sub.

    Which I am going to bet is not what happens in SWTOR.
    That is exactly what happens.

    If you sub for 1 month in SWTOR you have access to all expansions and content up to that point.. permanently.

    Galactic Command endgame progression system and an unlimited currency cap require an active sub though.. so you still have to sub to play the game optimally at 'absolute' endgame.
    I stand corrected.

    But, that is not "forever" that is just to the point that I stopped paying the sub. While kinda impressive that they would do this, it makes me wonder what other things they do to rake people over the coals for money.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • katzklawkatzklaw Member UncommonPosts: 83
    TheDarkrayne said:
    ...
    If you sub for 1 month in SWTOR you have access to all expansions and content up to that point.. permanently.
    ...
    how do they make their money??? O.o
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 4,031
    OG_Zorvan said:
    The problem for LotRO is TurSSG does not have WB money behind them now. They don't have the money or manpower for a huge game overhaul ( it's taken them years just to get close to a 64bit client ), and certainly don't have the money for mass marketing anymore. Given the fact they've gone to Mordor and are now just scraping together whatever story they can make from surrounding areas just to keep old players invested, I doubt highly TurSSG really cares about new players at this point. Sure, they're happy to have them, but they're not what's putting food on the table. New players are a nice bonus, but old player retention is what will keep the lights on another year or so.
    This is very true, they also do not have any investors over them telling them that they need to keep hitting sales goals either, or some suit at the top level sucking out all their profits to pay a multimillion dollar salary.

    In that case, they are very open to focus on making a good game, now if only they could do so.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,525
    edited May 2019
    How does the "model" not work?

    Haha,i had issues with the game design being weak not the model.I played FFXI,we had NO tutorials.NO hand holding what so ever,how did we manage?
    I think too many people started within Wow,well that is a FACT as it held 65% of the rpg player base at one time.Spoiled by very poor casual hand holding design,so now people expect that when they walk into a rpg.
    I have to ask,are people not looking for an immersive rpg experience,are they simply looking for a game to login and do something..anything and be told where to go and what to do?

    What do people do when they travel,ask for a tour guide?

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member EpicPosts: 5,297
    edited May 2019
    Nebless said:
    LOTRO payment model is a piece of junk

    What does LOTRO sub give you? Nothing really

    Unlike ESO, subbing to LOTRO gives you junk. You still have to buy 100s of dollars of dlc, you don't get anything amazing for subbing like ESO gives you and the daily free stuff is junk compared to BDO

    LOTRO is the least worthwhile MMO to pay for and even subbing you don't get anything good like you do in ESO. 


    I'm not sure we've played the same version of LotRO. 

    When you sub you get access to all area's that ARE NOT expansions, that means all regions from lvl 1 to 75, 83 to 85 and then 110-115.  Which means you could actually SKIP the first 3 expansions just in terms of leveling.  https://www.lotro.com/en/lotro-store-quest-packs

    You also get 500 store points a month which you can use to BUY the expansions.  Nothing extra out of pocket, just the monthly store points you get from having a sub means you can buy an expansion (quest pack not the full blown version with raids & extra shiney's) every 3 months and of course as you play you earn free store points too so that should speed up the buying process.

    I'll give you the 2 free daily login gifts might not be much, but you can't have everything.
    Really? I recall having to buy quest+zone packs, but looking at your link that isn't a thing.

    Is that actually not the case? If so, then I'm so terribly sorry for the misinformation. Did I not actually HAVE to buy quest packs/zone areas to play in them? I bought a quest pack+zone pack, thinking I had to buy them still even when I was subbed. Actually are zone packs even a thing? Or is that just included in a quest pack? I thought they were separate, but now not 100% sure.

    Outside of expansions of course, that is different.

    If so, wow I could have saved a lot of money and just stay subbed. Now I feel like if I've been wrong this entire time...


    When you are subbed it's not possible to buy the quest packs you temporarily have access to until you are unsubbed again so whatever you were buying may have been tied to an expansion. You can buy expansion 'quest packs' that don't include things like extra classes or access to the raids and skirmishes so that might be what you bought.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
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