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It's hard to get involved with LOTRO, The model doesn't work for new players

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,445
edited October 2017 in Lord of the Rings Online
I'm sitting here at 5am completely gameless for both single player games and mmos.  I thought about Elex as a single player game, but decided, no it's broken and played the hell out of Vanilla WoW and need a long break.

So here I stand like thousands of us searching....searching....searching for a classic to play, always coming up empty.   

A good many of us would click on LOTRO and other mmos here, to see if anything changed, wishing for a miracle that never comes.  I'll sit here trying to figure out how to make LOTRO work and have some fun.  


It's impossible:
- Free-to-play makes it impossible.
- Easy solo makes it impossible.
- A total "rally" is needed and this has to be generated by developers. 

In another discussion both Po_gg and Torval explain how to get a large-bang-for-your-buck.  It's true, you really can get a great deal, infact it's almost too good to be true, but what good is it if all the people are top level, no new people will ever stick around.
 

But theirs an unmistaken problem associated with playing this mmo !!!..... And thousands of us know it !!! 

If you take the deal, it still leaves you all alone.  No one else is taking the "deal" at the same time.  Your an individual all alone, playing a SOLO EXPERIENCE trying to figure out WHO HAS WHAT PACKAGE or are they playing a free demo ?..... Your still simply all alone. 

Some will say " I'm going for it, I'll embrace the community "........ It takes a rare person to really do this, infact I've never seen this actually happen, and I'm sure you haven't either.  It's simply too much hoop jumping that no one ever cares to endure.

It's impossible, free-to-play broke the game, easy broke the game !  The model doesn't work for new players
Post edited by delete5230 on
DizismaGdemamieddieg50cameltosis
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Comments

  • DizismaDizisma Member UncommonPosts: 6
    Honestly, have no idea what the fuck you are saying.
    NibsFrodoFraginsWarlyxMrMelGibsonTokkenGorwecameltosiseddieg50
  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,383
    Found this post confusing also.   I have been playing LOTRO for years without any large problems.  

    I can only speculate. Up all night, 5 am,  weird things happen. 
    KyleranTorvalPhryMrMelGibson
  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,163
    Basically sounds like a free to play rant to me.  The game is fine the way it is.  Does it have some issues with the lastest addition to the game, yeah and the devs are not really doing a great job at fixing it right the first time around but they do straighten it out most of the time in the long run.  And as for elex is isn't broken at all, plays just like every other rpg made by PB.  Just isn't your type of game if you think it is broken.  It isn't an ARPG which is where most are having issues, because that is how they try to play it.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,445
    k61977 said:
    Basically sounds like a free to play rant to me.  The game is fine the way it is.  Does it have some issues with the lastest addition to the game, yeah and the devs are not really doing a great job at fixing it right the first time around but they do straighten it out most of the time in the long run.  And as for elex is isn't broken at all, plays just like every other rpg made by PB.  Just isn't your type of game if you think it is broken.  It isn't an ARPG which is where most are having issues, because that is how they try to play it.

    Yet, no one new stays.  Everyone passes through like a free demo.

    As with all games that went F2P, it's fine at the top end, infact it's great for them !
  • cormachcormach Member UncommonPosts: 83
    Based on the title, I thought you couldn't get the game to work.

    So your issue is, you don't like the free to play and think no one is sticking around?

    I'm confused.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,445
    cormach said:
    Based on the title, I thought you couldn't get the game to work.

    So your issue is, you don't like the free to play and think no one is sticking around?

    I'm confused.

    Sorry, I fixed the title.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 5,726
    I know from my own experience that some new folks stay - people who I helped when they were starting our (by making them gear, running some of the instances that scale etc.) who said "hi" when I returned after a break.

    How many? No idea.

    Something that has recently started which, maybe, you could check out is a "project" / Guild called SlowMo. Something like SlowMo anyway. Essentially they are running through all - ! - the content as a progression server "on level". As of a couple of days or so they announced in world chat that they were now as "Season 2" - think that means they have gotten onto level 20 after quite a few weeks.

    Anyway people are still running stuff at lower levels. I don't think the game is as active as it was after the server mergers but requests for folk to join Moria, Mirkwood, Isengard and other instances are still common enough.






    Po_ggMrMelGibson
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 446
    This week it's LotRO, next week it's MMO X... doesn't matter how many ways you try to spin it, it's still the same broken record.

    If you were to transport yourself and all your friends from today back to 1999 and hop back in to one of your favorite hangout places, you'd still not be happy.  Why?  Because you've all changed.  It's not that the MMOs have changed so much as you have.  That is the one piece of the puzzle that you keep negating from your quest for utopia. 

    But please, go ahead, and rephrase your same old same old thread topics as if somehow you are not repeating yourself.  

    Imagine if you spent all this time looking for something new to do... something that didn't require a computer... imagine if all this time you could be having the time of your life doing something different instead of trying to do the same thing all the time.
    KyleranTorvalPhryDMKanoMrMelGibsonGorweJenkz
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,445
    btdt said:
    This week it's LotRO, next week it's MMO X... doesn't matter how many ways you try to spin it, it's still the same broken record.

    If you were to transport yourself and all your friends from today back to 1999 and hop back in to one of your favorite hangout places, you'd still not be happy.  Why?  Because you've all changed.  It's not that the MMOs have changed so much as you have.  That is the one piece of the puzzle that you keep negating from your quest for utopia. 

    But please, go ahead, and rephrase your same old same old thread topics as if somehow you are not repeating yourself.  

    Imagine if you spent all this time looking for something new to do... something that didn't require a computer... imagine if all this time you could be having the time of your life doing something different instead of trying to do the same thing all the time.

    Well, this is not true. 

    I'm honestly searching for a classic, their are millions of us doing the same. EQ1, EQ2, DAOC, DDO, LOTRO, several others.

    Sure I have a negative opinion. "Totally justified"..... If an automobile doesn't run right, it doesn't run right...... By saying it if it's true doesn't make you a negative person.  By repeating it over and over, that could be a different story.  Yes, it could be irritating.

    Look several post down, where I did a review..... I tried hard to make it work !

     

    Re-read the OP, it's all facts that this model can't work for new players unless you absolutely committed to suffer through a lot...... Honestly, no one is doing that !
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,545
    edited October 2017
    Re-read the OP, it's all facts that this model can't work for new players unless you absolutely committed to suffer through a lot...... Honestly, no one is doing that !
    Can't say anything about "absolutely committed" but there are new players from time to time, at least a few :wink:
    When the narrative courses happened, for example, a lot of the course mates stayed in the game, and they weren't even gamers most of the time. True, in their cases the love of the lore might've counted as commitment.
    I used to bring in fellows (hard to believe but there are plenty who never tried it before, shocking, right? :smiley: ), and a few used to stay as well just like @gervaise1 said above.
    gervaise1 said:
    Something that has recently started which, maybe, you could check out is a "project" / Guild called SlowMo. Something like SlowMo anyway. Essentially they are running through all - ! - the content as a progression server "on level".
    It's an idea originated on the RP servers, but lately it has reached a few other servers too. I think I even posted about it a few years ago :wink: a close guess, not slowmo, but SlowTro.

    Some does it for the roleplay (like Landy's group Éclair, they are somehwere around level 50 now I think, but has a second kinship for the late arrivals with a much lower "level cap"),
    some does it for the challenge (like Laurelin's SlowTro, their focus is more on playing content not on level but 5 levels below, for the added difficulty, they're at 65 now according to http://www.slowtro.shivtr.com/ ),
    and some just for the slow, smelling the roses, "progression server" experience (like the kinship on Crickhollow, apologies fellas, I'm not very active on Crick and forgot the kin's name... :open_mouth: ).
    gervaise1
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,279
    btdt said:
    This week it's LotRO, next week it's MMO X... doesn't matter how many ways you try to spin it, it's still the same broken record.

    If you were to transport yourself and all your friends from today back to 1999 and hop back in to one of your favorite hangout places, you'd still not be happy.  Why?  Because you've all changed.  It's not that the MMOs have changed so much as you have.  That is the one piece of the puzzle that you keep negating from your quest for utopia. 

    But please, go ahead, and rephrase your same old same old thread topics as if somehow you are not repeating yourself.  

    Imagine if you spent all this time looking for something new to do... something that didn't require a computer... imagine if all this time you could be having the time of your life doing something different instead of trying to do the same thing all the time.
    I recommend going to work. Pretty much ties up about 12 hours leaving precious few hours a day to bore myself with games.

    For extra challenge I toss in lawn and pool maintenance,  home repair, tree cutting and hauling stuff to the dump to cover the weekends.

    There's also housecleaning which has thrilling activities such as toilet and bath scrubbing, floor cleaning, dusting,  windows cleaning etc.

    Oh yes, getting a wife absorbs countless hours of excessive free time and children add yet a whole new dimension to consuming your day.

    The real secret to never getting bored of gaming (or any other hobby) is to never have too much free time to actually do it.

    B)
    TorvalRobsolfGhostRider00SovrathPhryk61977Gobstopper3DMrMelGibsonAurexXx

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,709
    Gervaise and bdtd nailed it. I think most anyone having a hard time integrating into the LotRO community will have a harder time in any other mmo. LotRO is one of the more inviting communities I've played in. I think the OP is going to have a real surprise when the retro reboot mmos launch and they find out how hardcore "doing the community" can be in old school games where you rely on that for activity and progression.
    KyleranRobsolfgervaise1SovrathMrMelGibson
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • chambordinchambordin Member UncommonPosts: 168
    As far as business model lotro is even worse than some hall of famers like archeage. Everything in lotro is monetized, little signs everywhere throughout every single interface window that you can purchase this or unlock that or upgrade this or boost that. They have a slot machine called hobbit gifts that lets you waste mithril coins, an intermediate cash shop currency (it's a currency that you buy with cash shop currency, which this cash shop currency (lotro store points) you can buy with real money) it's like in game real money currencyception.

     And as if that wasn't confusing enough for new players, they give you one (through a large announcement icon in your interface) free hobbit gift roll every day (it's all mostly complete consumable junk) so that you can get hooked or maybe and most probably misclick into wasting mithril coins, if you have any. 
    Oh and if that's not enough, subscribers (aka VIPs, because that's their priority) get a special sort of hobbit gifts that are gold and have better chance of better things (it stays that vague).

    Terrible business model, they should just remove all of that moneygrabbing crap if you're a subscriber, every trace of it but the store link, and the game would be much more swallowable. 
    KyleranGobstopper3D
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 5,948
    edited October 2017
    As far as business model lotro is even worse than some hall of famers like archeage. Everything in lotro is monetized, little signs everywhere throughout every single interface window that you can purchase this or unlock that or upgrade this or boost that. They have a slot machine called hobbit gifts that lets you waste mithril coins, an intermediate cash shop currency (it's a currency that you buy with cash shop currency, which this cash shop currency (lotro store points) you can buy with real money) it's like in game real money currencyception.

     And as if that wasn't confusing enough for new players, they give you one (through a large announcement icon in your interface) free hobbit gift roll every day (it's all mostly complete consumable junk) so that you can get hooked or maybe and most probably misclick into wasting mithril coins, if you have any. 
    Oh and if that's not enough, subscribers (aka VIPs, because that's their priority) get a special sort of hobbit gifts that are gold and have better chance of better things (it stays that vague).

    Terrible business model, they should just remove all of that moneygrabbing crap if you're a subscriber, every trace of it but the store link, and the game would be much more swallowable. 
    This is my only real issue with the game and kind of why I started taking a break from it at least until a sale. The barrier to entry can be quite high and confusing for someone brand new especially not knowing which things are worth investing in and what you can find where for a cheaper price since the actual game store doesn't bundle things up or offer certain packages like say Amazon does. I almost felt like you needed a guide just to understand how to spend your actual money wisely on this game since almost every feature in it is sold separately in the cash shop.
    Kyleran
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,709
    They do over monetize and it can be confusing, or you just subscribe for $10 a month and none of that matters. There's no need to figure anything out then. Just play it like a sub game where you have the occasional xpac purchase on top of the sub.

    It only gets complicated when players try and game the system and figure out how they can play even cheaper and spend less than the $10/mo sub. If that is how someone wants to roll, then yeah they need to sort out what to buy and what is the cheapest way to get there.
    SovrathRobsolf
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,591
    edited October 2017
    Kyleran said:


    The real secret to never getting bored of gaming (or any other hobby) is to never have too much free time to actually do it.

    B)

    Exactly.  If a person finds themselves always seeking the next great game, and always being disappointed with every game they play, it might be a good time to stop blaming extrinsic factors(developers catering to "snowflakes", "bad players", "unfair pay models", etc), and look internally.  The core of their very being might be trying to tell them it wants to do something else, for a change.
    Torval
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 4,974
    It's pretty hard to get into LOTRO at this point. I got banned on one account because I bought a key for an expansion from an external source for pretty cheap and it got revoked and now until I pay Standing Stone 20 bucks I can't get my account back. I don't know if it's worth me even paying to get it back. 
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 5,726
    edited October 2017
    Torval said:
    They do over monetize and it can be confusing, or you just subscribe for $10 a month and none of that matters. There's no need to figure anything out then. Just play it like a sub game where you have the occasional xpac purchase on top of the sub.

    It only gets complicated when players try and game the system and figure out how they can play even cheaper and spend less than the $10/mo sub. If that is how someone wants to roll, then yeah they need to sort out what to buy and what is the cheapest way to get there.
    And for anyone who hasn't tried LotR collectively all the ways pay / not pay and the advantages / disadvantages have been covered in other threads. LotR lets you do both along with variations inbetween. 

    And thank you @Po_gg it is indeed SlowMo - useful info. I have only seen it on Evernight which is not my main server.
    Robsolf
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,445
    Kyleran said:
    btdt said:
    This week it's LotRO, next week it's MMO X... doesn't matter how many ways you try to spin it, it's still the same broken record.

    If you were to transport yourself and all your friends from today back to 1999 and hop back in to one of your favorite hangout places, you'd still not be happy.  Why?  Because you've all changed.  It's not that the MMOs have changed so much as you have.  That is the one piece of the puzzle that you keep negating from your quest for utopia. 

    But please, go ahead, and rephrase your same old same old thread topics as if somehow you are not repeating yourself.  

    Imagine if you spent all this time looking for something new to do... something that didn't require a computer... imagine if all this time you could be having the time of your life doing something different instead of trying to do the same thing all the time.
    I recommend going to work. Pretty much ties up about 12 hours leaving precious few hours a day to bore myself with games.

    For extra challenge I toss in lawn and pool maintenance,  home repair, tree cutting and hauling stuff to the dump to cover the weekends.

    There's also housecleaning which has thrilling activities such as toilet and bath scrubbing, floor cleaning, dusting,  windows cleaning etc.

    Oh yes, getting a wife absorbs countless hours of excessive free time and children add yet a whole new dimension to consuming your day.

    The real secret to never getting bored of gaming (or any other hobby) is to never have too much free time to actually do it.

    B)

    MAN, I would hate to be on YOUR bad side Kyleran..... Wait a second, I've been plenty of times, and it's not pretty ! 
  • NeblessNebless Member UncommonPosts: 1,176
    Everything in lotro is monetized, little signs everywhere throughout every single interface window that you can purchase this or unlock that or upgrade this or boost that.

    I just ignore them, so what they pop up?  I'd almost rather see something telling me what I didn't have than rage quit because I couldn't do something.  And I think you're over dramatizing it as the only pop up's come if you move to a zone you don't have (and yes those are annoying if all you're doing is going in and out an instance) or when you level up.


    They have a slot machine called hobbit gifts that lets you waste mithril coins, an intermediate cash shop currency (it's a currency that you buy with cash shop currency, which this cash shop currency (lotro store points) you can buy with real money) it's like in game real money currencyception.

    How?  Not only do you have to click on the icon to get it to pop up (don't want it?  Don't click on it!), you hit the free roll, take the item which 99% of the time get's sold as trash and play on.  You can see the items on the list and there's nothing on it worth playing slot machine for.  You make it sound like if they have a choice they'll always spend the cash.  Sorry I don't buy that.

     
    As for the OP's note, I think it's a stretch to think a 10year old game would still be pulling in the same amount of people as it did when it started.  With no advertising I see 'I just found this game' over on the Steam forums all the time.  Yes there are some people just getting into it, the more able to solo feature is there because there's not a lot of lower levels.  Can't see how that make's it unplayable.

    I think most of your 'pain' is more up at 5am frustration.
    Robsolf

    SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO - GnH (beta tester) - SWToR - Neverwinter

  • RobsolfRobsolf Member RarePosts: 4,591
    Torval said:
    They do over monetize and it can be confusing, or you just subscribe for $10 a month and none of that matters. There's no need to figure anything out then. Just play it like a sub game where you have the occasional xpac purchase on top of the sub.

    It only gets complicated when players try and game the system and figure out how they can play even cheaper and spend less than the $10/mo sub. If that is how someone wants to roll, then yeah they need to sort out what to buy and what is the cheapest way to get there.
    Agree... if you're a long time veteran that stopped subbing at some point, it can be pretty frustrating(I'm one).  Also, if you've been playing games like Star Trek Online where you get the same content that subscribers do, I see where those people might think LotRO is holding out on them.

    But LotRO is a far bigger effort.  The landscape has to mean something, if you can't just skip past it as in other F2P games.  It has to have a point.

    But sure, they too could offer mostly repeatable instances, and they could certainly be entertaining in that model.  Matter of fact, that might be where they go from here, with so much of the land mass required now being created...

    We should always be careful what we wish for...




    Torval
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,545
    Robsolf said:
    Agree... if you're a long time veteran that stopped subbing at some point, it can be pretty frustrating(I'm one).  Also, if you've been playing games like Star Trek Online where you get the same content that subscribers do, I see where those people might think LotRO is holding out on them.
    Very true, that in STO freeps and subbers got the same content... I guess it's more about the preferences. I'm in an easy position there, since those two above are among my favourite / main games :wink:  And with that I can safely say, for me (mindset, playstyle, goals, spending habits, etc.) LotRO's model is better. Which is not a surprise, I used to say LotRO's model is the best, overall :smile:

    Which doesn't mean Cryptic's model (in STO and CO, Neverwinter was built with a way more f2p-heavy mindset) is bad, quite the contrary, it is pretty good, especially for newcomers. The problem however is longevity, and the missing flexibility LotRO's model has. No wonder I posted quite a few times in the STO subforum here, when the topic was the f2p, that in STO subbing is pointless. Either free with occasional Zen purchases, or a lifetime sub for the veteran rewards. The flexible way of "when I go there for this month I subscribe for that time" gives you almost nothing.

    The other difference is the lock/lootboxes. Cryptic relies heavily on the boxes, there's a new one every couple months, and they release the new (and pretty good stuff) in them. In LotRO the other hand (at least before Mordor, haven't checked that part yet, I'm waiting on the store release in December :wink: ) there's nothing "worthy" in the boxes. Maybe that's why they changed it for Mordor...


    Now that I wanted to summarize somehow the two, I figured maybe delete's "commitment" notion has some truth in it. LotRO's model is much better on the long run, for those who are veteran players, or to those newcomers who want to stay for longer. Very flexible, subscription has its worth with unlocking everything (through stipend even the expansions), and most things are account-wide, so you help your later alt characters too. For newcomers it might be daunting at first, but with careful planning and some research one can play LotRO with minimal (or none at all) grind, and still very cheap.

    STO on the other hand is perfect for newcomers, you have the entire game available for free, the restrictions are barely there during level-up and the story. At the end however it bumps the player into a choice, either some occasional casual play, or a heavy grind / pay. And subscriptions doesn't help a bit, there's no flexibility to ease that grind somehow, and neither has "longevity", if you start with a new captain, your previous grind / pay / unlocks mean almost nothing. That character will also have a smooth ride till the endgame, then you can start the grind with him as well. Or pay.


    Two different approaches, one gives a lot for free up front, and then try to make you pay later (or grind a lot), the other asks for your money (or time, through grind) earlier, but makes most as a one-time purchase, so the longer you play, the less you need from the shop, and also can be played as a subscription-based game. I prefer the latter, but again, different strokes :wink:
    Robsolf
  • SkyWlf77SkyWlf77 Member CommonPosts: 1
    I somewhat understand the OP's commentary, at least as far as it pertains to newcomers. I've played lots of MMO's from "A Mystical Land" to "Runes of Magic" to "RIFT" and beyond. When I started to get bored of RIFT, I decided I wanted to try a classic and fired up LotRO for the first time.

    I was a bit wary of the investment aspect of the game. I have OCD and need to have all content unlocked, whether necessary or not and my wife and I always play together, so I have to multiply everything by 2. But, if we managed to get a lot of enjoyment out of it and could mostly avoid the grindy nature of a lot of other MMO's, then it would be worth it (heck, we had nearly $5000 in Runes of Magic when we walked away).

    I *loved* the gameplay. It was similar to others, but with just enough uniqueness to be intriguing. The game (what I played of it) did not feel grindy at all. I had just three issues with the game - two minor and the one that killed my enjoyment and desire to continue:

    1) Minor #1: The running. Holy cow. The world is huge, which is great for avoiding grinding, but not at all enjoyable when you have to run back and forth and all over the map over very long distances (compared to other MMO's). Quests that crossed from one area into another and back again felt like a bit of a chore. Unfortunately, I never really saw anything along the way while running that would break up the boredom, such as random things to kill or little caves to explore that weren't part of the questline. [For my wife, this would be a Major Issue as, in other games, we either bought a 2-player mount or she would use the "follow" command on my character and she just rode behind me until it was time to get involved because running bores her easily.]

    2) Minor #2: The lack of need for 2 players through most of the leveling process. We play together always - me as the attacker and her as my "pocket healer" or support crew. In LotRO, however, the need for such a secondary player was completely missing. Soloing all the leveling content that we played was simple. In fact, my 10-year-old (who plays with us in a group in other MMO's for areas that require more than two people, usually as a "tank" class character) gave it a shot and managed to get bored to the point he refused to continue (which rarely happens with MMO's).

    3) Major Issue: The lack of community. The entire time we played, we saw only one other person in the leveling areas and saw absolutely no chat activity. We play MMO's for the community aspect, but that simply didn't exist here during leveling. In MMO's like Rift and Runes of Magic, there were always people in the low level zones - newbies just getting started or veterans rolling new characters. Here, it was a vast, empty wasteland. We felt that we were playing a single-player game the entire time. The community doesn't seem to do much to encourage new players to stay, which is quite sad.

    The lack of community for newbies was the killing factor. Granted, had we continued, capped and geared up, we could have fixed that ourselves; it's what we do. In both Runes of Magic and RIFT, we spent thousands of RL dollars and hundreds of hours of game time getting our characters into the Top 5 rankings on our servers, then spent nearly 90% of our time in low-level zones chatting with newbies, helping them finish quests (especially getting their dungeon quests done and getting their beginning dungeon gear) and doing giveaways to help them along (crafted gear sets, inventory bags to increase storage, materials for crafting, etc). In fact, in RIFT, we had a guild strictly for newbies to join. We'd teach them how to play, help them get level capped, assess their strengths, and then pass them along to end game guilds that matched what they were looking to get out of the game. It kept newbies interested and involved, encouraged them to keep going, and the end game guilds loved us because they knew the players they got from us were prepared: knew the game, how to play their characters, and had a vested interest in continuing.

    LotRO needs this type of community engagement with new players. Sadly, we just couldn't push through the complete lack of community engagement to get ourselves to the point we could do this with LotRO. I hope someone does at some point. Otherwise, it's an eventual given that LotRO will bleed off veteran players at a rate higher than new players will join and the community at higher levels will suffer; it's how most MMO's die. LotRO will outlast others due to the fanbase with the series, but it won't last forever unless new players are gained at a sustainable rate...
    Viper482Gobstopper3D
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,279
    SkyWlf77 said:
    I somewhat understand the OP's commentary, at least as far as it pertains to newcomers. I've played lots of MMO's from "A Mystical Land" to "Runes of Magic" to "RIFT" and beyond. When I started to get bored of RIFT, I decided I wanted to try a classic and fired up LotRO for the first time.

    I was a bit wary of the investment aspect of the game. I have OCD and need to have all content unlocked, whether necessary or not and my wife and I always play together, so I have to multiply everything by 2. But, if we managed to get a lot of enjoyment out of it and could mostly avoid the grindy nature of a lot of other MMO's, then it would be worth it (heck, we had nearly $5000 in Runes of Magic when we walked away).

    I *loved* the gameplay. It was similar to others, but with just enough uniqueness to be intriguing. The game (what I played of it) did not feel grindy at all. I had just three issues with the game - two minor and the one that killed my enjoyment and desire to continue:

    1) Minor #1: The running. Holy cow. The world is huge, which is great for avoiding grinding, but not at all enjoyable when you have to run back and forth and all over the map over very long distances (compared to other MMO's). Quests that crossed from one area into another and back again felt like a bit of a chore. Unfortunately, I never really saw anything along the way while running that would break up the boredom, such as random things to kill or little caves to explore that weren't part of the questline. [For my wife, this would be a Major Issue as, in other games, we either bought a 2-player mount or she would use the "follow" command on my character and she just rode behind me until it was time to get involved because running bores her easily.]

    2) Minor #2: The lack of need for 2 players through most of the leveling process. We play together always - me as the attacker and her as my "pocket healer" or support crew. In LotRO, however, the need for such a secondary player was completely missing. Soloing all the leveling content that we played was simple. In fact, my 10-year-old (who plays with us in a group in other MMO's for areas that require more than two people, usually as a "tank" class character) gave it a shot and managed to get bored to the point he refused to continue (which rarely happens with MMO's).

    3) Major Issue: The lack of community. The entire time we played, we saw only one other person in the leveling areas and saw absolutely no chat activity. We play MMO's for the community aspect, but that simply didn't exist here during leveling. In MMO's like Rift and Runes of Magic, there were always people in the low level zones - newbies just getting started or veterans rolling new characters. Here, it was a vast, empty wasteland. We felt that we were playing a single-player game the entire time. The community doesn't seem to do much to encourage new players to stay, which is quite sad.

    The lack of community for newbies was the killing factor. Granted, had we continued, capped and geared up, we could have fixed that ourselves; it's what we do. In both Runes of Magic and RIFT, we spent thousands of RL dollars and hundreds of hours of game time getting our characters into the Top 5 rankings on our servers, then spent nearly 90% of our time in low-level zones chatting with newbies, helping them finish quests (especially getting their dungeon quests done and getting their beginning dungeon gear) and doing giveaways to help them along (crafted gear sets, inventory bags to increase storage, materials for crafting, etc). In fact, in RIFT, we had a guild strictly for newbies to join. We'd teach them how to play, help them get level capped, assess their strengths, and then pass them along to end game guilds that matched what they were looking to get out of the game. It kept newbies interested and involved, encouraged them to keep going, and the end game guilds loved us because they knew the players they got from us were prepared: knew the game, how to play their characters, and had a vested interest in continuing.

    LotRO needs this type of community engagement with new players. Sadly, we just couldn't push through the complete lack of community engagement to get ourselves to the point we could do this with LotRO. I hope someone does at some point. Otherwise, it's an eventual given that LotRO will bleed off veteran players at a rate higher than new players will join and the community at higher levels will suffer; it's how most MMO's die. LotRO will outlast others due to the fanbase with the series, but it won't last forever unless new players are gained at a sustainable rate...
    Good write up, thanks for sharing.

    Funny thing is, LOTRO has reportedly one of the most social communities out there, but I guess you have to find it first.

    Seems to a common problem, bridging the gap and keeping players connected, particularly in level based games.

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  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,286
    edited November 2017
    SkyWlf77 said:
    I somewhat understand the OP's commentary, at least as far as it pertains to newcomers. I've played lots of MMO's from "A Mystical Land" to "Runes of Magic" to "RIFT" and beyond. When I started to get bored of RIFT, I decided I wanted to try a classic and fired up LotRO for the first time.

    I was a bit wary of the investment aspect of the game. I have OCD and need to have all content unlocked, whether necessary or not and my wife and I always play together, so I have to multiply everything by 2. But, if we managed to get a lot of enjoyment out of it and could mostly avoid the grindy nature of a lot of other MMO's, then it would be worth it (heck, we had nearly $5000 in Runes of Magic when we walked away).

    I *loved* the gameplay. It was similar to others, but with just enough uniqueness to be intriguing. The game (what I played of it) did not feel grindy at all. I had just three issues with the game - two minor and the one that killed my enjoyment and desire to continue:

    1) Minor #1: The running. Holy cow. The world is huge, which is great for avoiding grinding, but not at all enjoyable when you have to run back and forth and all over the map over very long distances (compared to other MMO's). Quests that crossed from one area into another and back again felt like a bit of a chore. Unfortunately, I never really saw anything along the way while running that would break up the boredom, such as random things to kill or little caves to explore that weren't part of the questline. [For my wife, this would be a Major Issue as, in other games, we either bought a 2-player mount or she would use the "follow" command on my character and she just rode behind me until it was time to get involved because running bores her easily.]

    2) Minor #2: The lack of need for 2 players through most of the leveling process. We play together always - me as the attacker and her as my "pocket healer" or support crew. In LotRO, however, the need for such a secondary player was completely missing. Soloing all the leveling content that we played was simple. In fact, my 10-year-old (who plays with us in a group in other MMO's for areas that require more than two people, usually as a "tank" class character) gave it a shot and managed to get bored to the point he refused to continue (which rarely happens with MMO's).

    3) Major Issue: The lack of community. The entire time we played, we saw only one other person in the leveling areas and saw absolutely no chat activity. We play MMO's for the community aspect, but that simply didn't exist here during leveling. In MMO's like Rift and Runes of Magic, there were always people in the low level zones - newbies just getting started or veterans rolling new characters. Here, it was a vast, empty wasteland. We felt that we were playing a single-player game the entire time. The community doesn't seem to do much to encourage new players to stay, which is quite sad.

    The lack of community for newbies was the killing factor. Granted, had we continued, capped and geared up, we could have fixed that ourselves; it's what we do. In both Runes of Magic and RIFT, we spent thousands of RL dollars and hundreds of hours of game time getting our characters into the Top 5 rankings on our servers, then spent nearly 90% of our time in low-level zones chatting with newbies, helping them finish quests (especially getting their dungeon quests done and getting their beginning dungeon gear) and doing giveaways to help them along (crafted gear sets, inventory bags to increase storage, materials for crafting, etc). In fact, in RIFT, we had a guild strictly for newbies to join. We'd teach them how to play, help them get level capped, assess their strengths, and then pass them along to end game guilds that matched what they were looking to get out of the game. It kept newbies interested and involved, encouraged them to keep going, and the end game guilds loved us because they knew the players they got from us were prepared: knew the game, how to play their characters, and had a vested interest in continuing.

    LotRO needs this type of community engagement with new players. Sadly, we just couldn't push through the complete lack of community engagement to get ourselves to the point we could do this with LotRO. I hope someone does at some point. Otherwise, it's an eventual given that LotRO will bleed off veteran players at a rate higher than new players will join and the community at higher levels will suffer; it's how most MMO's die. LotRO will outlast others due to the fanbase with the series, but it won't last forever unless new players are gained at a sustainable rate...

    1. Mounts and fast travel....when was the last time you played??

    2. Plenty of people....even strangers.....still group up for things at all levels, not sure what your issue is here.


    3. You have got to be kidding me, really?? The community in this MMO is hands down the best I have ever seen. As with all older MMOs, even WoW, there are one or two hubs (find Bree) where most players will be found. Also there are only a few healthy populated servers; Landroval, Arkenstone, and Laurelin are three I know right off the top of my head. I turned a friend on to the game a few months ago, he asked a noob question in world chat and next thing he knew his mailbox was full of donations of gold and items. World Chat is always spammed with people organizing for group content you claim does not exist.

    Hell, don't take my word for it.... https://www.reddit.com/r/lotro/comments/7c800c/the_best_community_for_a_noob_in_history/

    I can't believe you spent this much time criticizing three things are not even an issue. I could talk about problems in LOTRO, none of these are it though. And if you play MMOs to be "top 5" anything LOTRO is NOT your game, and NOT the community for you.


    PsYcHoGBRTorvalPo_gg
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