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New Ship - Introductory Price of $850

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    The issue with P2W that I can see with this asset is that it can build basically player housing on planets weeks if not months before a regular player can afford it - This will lead to bases been build at the best spots (i.e. near the cities, fixed POIs) before any regular player has the chance to claim the spot.
    Renting is not an option here because orgs rather sit on their options on claims than just give (rent) it away.

    To introduce a "game changer" ship and make it high priced and only accessible to a small crowd is parting a community which is something you should avoid in a MMO setting.
    I dont understand why you could not rent them. rent monthy, one time fee, rent to own.

    just about anything in the known world we live in its possible to rent in theory.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    SEANMCAD said:
    The issue with P2W that I can see with this asset is that it can build basically player housing on planets weeks if not months before a regular player can afford it - This will lead to bases been build at the best spots (i.e. near the cities, fixed POIs) before any regular player has the chance to claim the spot.
    Renting is not an option here because orgs rather sit on their options on claims than just give (rent) it away.

    To introduce a "game changer" ship and make it high priced and only accessible to a small crowd is parting a community which is something you should avoid in a MMO setting.
    I dont understand why you could not rent them. rent monthy, one time fee, rent to own.

    just about anything in the known world we live in its possible to rent in theory.

    Rent cheap from the NPCs? CR said that ships ingame will cost way more.
    Do you have any official link where they confirm that renting is an option?

    Leasing alone would be a subpar option because when your character gets into to much ingame debt what then ... delete character? Buy new account? This is not stuff that is considered "fun" to most people.

    With all these pre $$$ bought assets it is a horror alone to have the economy balanced, a debt system won't make it easier.

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    The issue with P2W that I can see with this asset is that it can build basically player housing on planets weeks if not months before a regular player can afford it - This will lead to bases been build at the best spots (i.e. near the cities, fixed POIs) before any regular player has the chance to claim the spot.
    Renting is not an option here because orgs rather sit on their options on claims than just give (rent) it away.

    To introduce a "game changer" ship and make it high priced and only accessible to a small crowd is parting a community which is something you should avoid in a MMO setting.
    I dont understand why you could not rent them. rent monthy, one time fee, rent to own.

    just about anything in the known world we live in its possible to rent in theory.

    Rent cheap from the NPCs? CR said that ships ingame will cost way more.
    Do you have any official link where they confirm that renting is an option?

    Leasing alone would be a subpar option because when your character gets into to much ingame debt what then ... delete character? Buy new account? This is not stuff that is considered "fun" to most people.

    With all these pre $$$ bought assets it is a horror alone to have the economy balanced, a debt system won't make it easier.
    asking if its conceptually possible for them to at some point introduce renting in different forms that match how it works in real life does not really require me to post evidence that he says he WILL do it. There seems to be a lack of understanding between the word POSSIBLE and WILL.

    never the less, he says ships will be rentable in this video:


    time stamp is some where in the thread of its source I am not inclide to do a whole lot of work for something that is not the point becuase I am talking about POSSIBLE...not WILL

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kefo said:

    so you think the example I gave as a possible mission is absurd and that you have never had a mission remotely similar to that detail. I dont believe you. my desire is for you to stop replying to me, its my request. clearly I cant make you but i would perfer you did not
    Good thing this is a open forum. The example is absurd. It might work in other games but in SC I don't see it flying cause CIG are greedy bastards lol
    wow....that is your answer....wow

    ok well I think that view is absurd. Not that they are greedy bastards but that somehow they are different greedy bastards then all other developers and that is the reason this specific mission could not work in this game but can work in other games created by greedy bastards and is absurd to think that it would.

    I think that line of logic is absurd.

    take care

    We aren't talking about other games, we are talking about star citizen. While all of us are over here talking about point A you are trying to talk about point 53 which is why just about everyone on both sides of the line are telling you you are wrong
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2017
    Kefo said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kefo said:

    so you think the example I gave as a possible mission is absurd and that you have never had a mission remotely similar to that detail. I dont believe you. my desire is for you to stop replying to me, its my request. clearly I cant make you but i would perfer you did not
    Good thing this is a open forum. The example is absurd. It might work in other games but in SC I don't see it flying cause CIG are greedy bastards lol
    wow....that is your answer....wow

    ok well I think that view is absurd. Not that they are greedy bastards but that somehow they are different greedy bastards then all other developers and that is the reason this specific mission could not work in this game but can work in other games created by greedy bastards and is absurd to think that it would.

    I think that line of logic is absurd.

    take care

    We aren't talking about other games, we are talking about star citizen. While all of us are over here talking about point A you are trying to talk about point 53 which is why just about everyone on both sides of the line are telling you you are wrong
    whenever someone says 'cant talk about any other games' I know the conversation is over and they lost. unacceptable,I dont really need to talk about other games to make my point valid but I have no intrest in engaging with that stupid 'rule' havent I already said I am kinda done with you anyway?

    so expect me to read no more than about 4 words of each of your reply, waste all the time you like
    MadFrenchie

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    I don't understand how you guys can put so much energy into arguing with SEANMCAD who is so obviously 100% technically right. You hoping the laws of space time change or something?
    Odeezee
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    Some aspects in real life do simply not work in a game.
    But OK if renting ships is now a promised feature then it should be added to the SC feature list.

    But I can not work out a system where you don't piss off (sorry didn't find a better word) the whales and grunting whales keep their wallets closed. Furthermore renting/leasing a big ship could lead to loose the ship cause of *happenings* (piracy, loitering asteroids ...etc) and not to be able to pay the rent + fees + reactivating the ship (maybe you have to wait a week until insurance brings it back) + optional ship add ons. The account could likely ruin itself with this mechanic - this will p* off the players who are renting.

    But thank god there is a way to pay up to $150 a day to get more UEC.

    So this is a very good mechanic to get rid of your playerbase because there is too much stuff included that could be considered as "unfun".

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2017
    Orinori said:
    I don't understand how you guys can put so much energy into arguing with SEANMCAD who is so obviously 100% technically right. You hoping the laws of space time change or something?
    exactly!

    I mean unless you know the game plans in details you dont know if renting ships will balance out the advantage or not and its very clear that its possible (easily possible) to do just that.

    so why waste so much time argueing about it? to what end exactly?

    really the best thing to do is to stop replying to me, its silly waste of time

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2017
    Some aspects in real life do simply not work in a game.
    But OK if renting ships is now a promised feature ...
    I stopped reading right there.
    1. Its NOT a 'promised' feature, its a targeted featured
     2. I am talking about what is POSSIBLE not what WILL happen why is that so hard to understand?
    3. Why are so many people basing conclusions based on what they DONT KNOW yet expect any counter to that to be based only on 'promises'

     try again I am talking about what is POSSIBLE

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    SEANMCAD said:

    really the best thing to do is to stop replying to me, its silly waste of time
    The most intelligent thing you've said in your life, I suspect.
    Slapshot1188Pingu2012KefoNildenOdeezee
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    SEANMCAD said:
    Some aspects in real life do simply not work in a game.
    But OK if renting ships is now a promised feature ...
    I stopped reading right there.
    1. Its NOT a 'promised' feature, its a targeted featured
     2. I am talking about what is POSSIBLE not what WILL happen why is that so hard to understand?
    3. Why are so many people basing conclusions based on what they DONT KNOW yet expect any counter to that to be based only on 'promises'

     try again I am talking about what is POSSIBLE
    I asked you if its confirmed, you posted a video where you say "he says ships will be rentable" in the marketing event of CIG - this is a promise. If untrue then its a feature that was announced but never in the game > false marketing.

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • ZandogZandog Member UncommonPosts: 97
    This thread..

    Needs to die.
    Erillion
    Every time Goonsquad/SA/DS post salt on Star Citizen, I spend more money on it. Every time a mentally disturbed former backer or Elite CMDR toxic emo comments, I spend more money on it. Every time they refuse to answer why they spend so much time arguing about a game they don't even like, I spend more money on it. Want to watch the world burn because you can't have your way? You got whats coming to you.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2017
    SEANMCAD said:
    Some aspects in real life do simply not work in a game.
    But OK if renting ships is now a promised feature ...
    I stopped reading right there.
    1. Its NOT a 'promised' feature, its a targeted featured
     2. I am talking about what is POSSIBLE not what WILL happen why is that so hard to understand?
    3. Why are so many people basing conclusions based on what they DONT KNOW yet expect any counter to that to be based only on 'promises'

     try again I am talking about what is POSSIBLE
    I asked you if its confirmed, ...

     that is not a 'promise'. and for that matter its not even marketing of a product.
    Its marketing of the CONCEPT of ideas.

    anyway..why are you diverting from the point? it doesnt matter if they said it or not, unless they said 'renting will not be in the game' then its completely POSSIBLE..

    again..I am talking about POSSIBLES

    so I ask you again:

    why is it that others can come up with 'will' based on imaginary information but I have to work off of these so called 'promises'? and why does it even make a material difference? please answer 

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:

    really the best thing to do is to stop replying to me, its silly waste of time
    The most intelligent thing you've said in your life, I suspect.
    thanks man! 

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    It's possible ships will be coded to automatically explode upon engine start.

    I mean, it's probably not going to happen, but it's possible!
    Nilden

    image
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2017
    It's possible ships will be coded to automatically explode upon engine start.

    I mean, it's probably not going to happen, but it's possible!
    That is the most intelligent observation I have read on this entire subject covering multiple days.

    EXACTLY a core important understanding to my point.

    I am very honestly encouraged that we can now move forward on my point a bit, thank you for stating it and no I am not joking

    Now....
    why do we feel CR is going to make game rules that make sense?
    EDIT:
    and why do we think a MAJOR P2W framework makes sense?
    and why do we think rentable ships is so outrageous of an idea?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,045
    LoL this thread...


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,178
    It's possible ships will be coded to automatically explode upon engine start.

    I mean, it's probably not going to happen, but it's possible!
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts could send every backer $5000.  
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts will remove ships from the game and convert it to a minecraft type voxel based game.
    It's also possible that they will announce a new monetization concept where they pay players to play their game.


    All I am saying is that these things are POSSIBLE guys!
    MadFrenchieKefoNilden

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    It's possible ships will be coded to automatically explode upon engine start.

    I mean, it's probably not going to happen, but it's possible!
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts could send every backer $5000.  
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts will remove ships from the game and convert it to a minecraft type voxel based game.
    It's also possible that they will announce a new monetization concept where they pay players to play their game.


    All I am saying is that these things are POSSIBLE guys!
    yes! I feel like I have hit a major milestone, thanks for understanding this. Now for the second phase

    1. why do we think CR would do something that makes sense?
    2. if he is to do things that make sense then why how does major P2W framework 'make sense'
    3. why do we think rentable ships is outrageous concept (and please get specfic here, why is that so fantastical a concept exactly?)

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    It's possible ships will be coded to automatically explode upon engine start.

    I mean, it's probably not going to happen, but it's possible!
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts could send every backer $5000.  
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts will remove ships from the game and convert it to a minecraft type voxel based game.
    It's also possible that they will announce a new monetization concept where they pay players to play their game.


    All I am saying is that these things are POSSIBLE guys!
    It's possible the Shadow Monster will escape the Upside Down.


    SPOILER ALERT #StrangerThingsSeasonDeux

    image
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited November 2017
    For all that we know, they could cut PvP from the game design and make PvP and PvE servers, completely messing up the present argumentation.

    Too many assumptions of what will the game world setup specifically be, to then assume over that, how will the setup you just assumed be balanced.

    It makes absolutely no sense to have such one aggressively defensive stand on this topic. SC still has ways to go before this discussion is more than speculating possibilities. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,178
    It's possible ships will be coded to automatically explode upon engine start.

    I mean, it's probably not going to happen, but it's possible!
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts could send every backer $5000.  
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts will remove ships from the game and convert it to a minecraft type voxel based game.
    It's also possible that they will announce a new monetization concept where they pay players to play their game.


    All I am saying is that these things are POSSIBLE guys!
    It's possible the Shadow Monster will escape the Upside Down.


    SPOILER ALERT #StrangerThingsSeasonDeux
    It's possible that the Shadow Monster is actually E.T.
    MadFrenchie

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2017
    It's possible ships will be coded to automatically explode upon engine start.

    I mean, it's probably not going to happen, but it's possible!
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts could send every backer $5000.  
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts will remove ships from the game and convert it to a minecraft type voxel based game.
    It's also possible that they will announce a new monetization concept where they pay players to play their game.


    All I am saying is that these things are POSSIBLE guys!
    It's possible the Shadow Monster will escape the Upside Down.


    SPOILER ALERT #StrangerThingsSeasonDeux
    It's possible that the Shadow Monster is actually E.T.
    your equating the possiblity of rentable ships to the possiblity of shadow monster?

    telling your audience that buying a ship doesnt give you an advantage doesnt generate you extra income from possible donators., you dont 'trick' them by then making it P2W in any way that is an advantage to you as a developer.

    However, I am not convinced CR does things that make sense but it appears you are suggesting he does

    EDIT: now I should be clear and say its completly possible that he hasnt thought out the details and by poxy does make it have an advantage by 'accident' if you will. that is possible

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    SEANMCAD said:
    It's possible ships will be coded to automatically explode upon engine start.

    I mean, it's probably not going to happen, but it's possible!
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts could send every backer $5000.  
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts will remove ships from the game and convert it to a minecraft type voxel based game.
    It's also possible that they will announce a new monetization concept where they pay players to play their game.


    All I am saying is that these things are POSSIBLE guys!
    It's possible the Shadow Monster will escape the Upside Down.


    SPOILER ALERT #StrangerThingsSeasonDeux
    It's possible that the Shadow Monster is actually E.T.
    your equating the possiblity of rentable ships to the possiblity of shadow monster?

    telling your audience that buying a ship doesnt give you an advantage doesnt generate you extra income from possible donators., you dont 'trick' them by then making it P2W in any way that is an advantage to you as a developer.

    However, I am not convinced CR does things that make sense but it appears you are suggesting he does
    No no no, the rentable ships are El...  Purchased ships are the Shadow Monster! 
    Slapshot1188

    image
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,178
    SEANMCAD said:
    It's possible ships will be coded to automatically explode upon engine start.

    I mean, it's probably not going to happen, but it's possible!
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts could send every backer $5000.  
    It's also possible that Chris Roberts will remove ships from the game and convert it to a minecraft type voxel based game.
    It's also possible that they will announce a new monetization concept where they pay players to play their game.


    All I am saying is that these things are POSSIBLE guys!
    It's possible the Shadow Monster will escape the Upside Down.


    SPOILER ALERT #StrangerThingsSeasonDeux
    It's possible that the Shadow Monster is actually E.T.
    your equating the possiblity of rentable ships to the possiblity of shadow monster?

    telling your audience that buying a ship doesnt give you an advantage doesnt generate you extra income from possible donators., you dont 'trick' them by then making it P2W in any way that is an advantage to you as a developer.

    However, I am not convinced CR does things that make sense but it appears you are suggesting he does
    Not at all.   I am merely suggesting that it is POSSIBLE that the Shadow Monster is actually E.T.

    Now that I think about it.. it's possible that Chris Roberts is actually an alien clone and that the real Chris Roberts has been taken up to space where it was revealed that there really is a Roberts Space Industries which was created in his honor about 15 years ago after the aliens played Wing Commander.

    It's unlikely I admit... but it IS POSSIBLE!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

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