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Elysium 'Private Server' Shuts Down Temporarily Due to Financial Shenanigans - World of Warcraft - M

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Comments

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,669
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    SBFordConstantineMerus
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,835
    Oh darn, thieves got robbed. What a pity, really. Boo hoo. Now where will all the freeloaders, entitled whiners, and nostalgic historical revisionists go?
    Here.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Torval
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    SBFord said:
    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Hardly. All overwrought arguments for or against the entire issue of vanilla servers are irrelevant compared to the bottom line of a Fortune 500 company that has undoubtedly researched this particular issue to death to see if it can be made profitable. That no move to create legacy servers has been made to date reveals that, at least as of now, it's not worth the investment. 

    In the end, that's what it all boils down to.
    That's why I said your last statement was strong.  Offsetting the costs is not the same as not being profitable enough.  Implying they would move forward without hesitation if they could simply offset the cost is a strong statement.

    image
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,669
    Kyleran said:

    SBFord said:

    Honestly, is anyone surprised? The temptation's real.



    I am not really surprised. It is quite common that developers are selling gold and/ or ingame items for real cash.
    Interestingly enough the DAOC freeshard is exactly that, no cash shop, no offline store, no donations accepted.

    A true labor of love.

    Well that and I think they are trying to avoid antagonizing the IP owner as the server and team are located in countries where court action would likely be enforced.
    They exist. They're few and far between. I've seen a Lineage server like that too but it's gone now. Go figure.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • Mike_LMike_L Member UncommonPosts: 72
    Blizz has stated several times that a vanilla server will never go online because the work that has to be put into it will be too expensive and time-consuming.

    I started playing WoW in 2004 and have recently tried Elysium cause I love vanilla to pieces and hate how WoW is today. Seemed like a good server, it ran well but the gold selling was crazy and it smelled dirty at best sometimes. Was not for me so I left rather fast.
    JamesGoblin

    If it ain't dead you're not pressing 2 hard enough.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    SBFord said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    Blizzard consistently shows its attention to "caring" with millions donated to charitable causes on a yearly basis -- and those are just the initiatives that we know about.

    That aside, it isn't good business to "care" -- a hyperbolic word used in regard to financial ventures, to say the least -- about a project that isn't financially worth the investment. The job of any business is to make money for themselves and their investors. If they could make enough to offset the cost of hosting and updating for vanilla servers, they would without one single doubt.
    My comment pertains to NA society, @Torval is correct. 

    I have no criticism towards Blizzard on this topic.

    Interestingly enough, I'm in the opening round of defending one of my trademarks I've held for over twenty five years against a big US corporation who wants to use it for one of their new products that doesn't have an overlap against mine. My opening response is constructive, I'm worried they're going to try steal it through muscle and attrition.

    We'll see how the negotiations go. 

    I don't have a lot of empathy towards Big Corps. With they're $muscle$ they can and do steal IP's.

     
    JamesGoblinGdemami

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    GdemamiIselin

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,669
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    SBFord
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,098
    laserit said:
    SBFord said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    Blizzard consistently shows its attention to "caring" with millions donated to charitable causes on a yearly basis -- and those are just the initiatives that we know about.

    That aside, it isn't good business to "care" -- a hyperbolic word used in regard to financial ventures, to say the least -- about a project that isn't financially worth the investment. The job of any business is to make money for themselves and their investors. If they could make enough to offset the cost of hosting and updating for vanilla servers, they would without one single doubt.
    My comment pertains to NA society, @Torval is correct. 

    I have no criticism towards Blizzard on this topic.

    Interestingly enough, I'm in the opening round of defending one of my trademarks I've held for over twenty five years against a big US corporation who wants to use it for one of their new products that doesn't have an overlap against mine. My opening response is constructive, I'm worried they're going to try steal it through muscle and attrition.

    We'll see how the negotiations go. 

    I don't have a lot of empathy towards Big Corps. With they're $muscle$ they can and do steal IP's.

     
    That's awful. I hope you win.
    SBFordTorvallaseritConstantineMerus



  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.
    GdemamiIselin

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,127
    laserit said:
    SBFord said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    Blizzard consistently shows its attention to "caring" with millions donated to charitable causes on a yearly basis -- and those are just the initiatives that we know about.

    That aside, it isn't good business to "care" -- a hyperbolic word used in regard to financial ventures, to say the least -- about a project that isn't financially worth the investment. The job of any business is to make money for themselves and their investors. If they could make enough to offset the cost of hosting and updating for vanilla servers, they would without one single doubt.
    My comment pertains to NA society, @Torval is correct. 

    I have no criticism towards Blizzard on this topic.

    Interestingly enough, I'm in the opening round of defending one of my trademarks I've held for over twenty five years against a big US corporation who wants to use it for one of their new products that doesn't have an overlap against mine. My opening response is constructive, I'm worried they're going to try steal it through muscle and attrition.

    We'll see how the negotiations go. 

    I don't have a lot of empathy towards Big Corps. With they're $muscle$ they can and do steal IP's.

     
    That's bad I mean I hope they don't try to steal it from you but I seriously wouldn't put it past them to do exactly that.
    laserit

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,669
    edited October 2017
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.
    I live in Oregon. Our vote doesn't matter anyway, even if you care.

    We're over-simplifying a complicated issue. There's a lot of truth in every corner of it that's overlooked in the discussion. It may not be possible to do it justice or be worth the effort. I think it was @FrodoFragins who had a signature that went something to the effect, "For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is as wrong as it is simple." That happens a lot in discussions here in my opinion because the format doesn't lend itself well to having them.

    I hope you find a good path through the trademark fiasco. That sort of stuff is exhausting to deal with.
    laserit
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Member RarePosts: 4,303
    SBFord said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    Blizzard consistently shows its attention to "caring" with millions donated to charitable causes on a yearly basis -- and those are just the initiatives that we know about.

    That doesn't prove that they care.  Plenty of companies make charitable contributions because it looks good.
    Gdemami
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    SBFord said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    Blizzard consistently shows its attention to "caring" with millions donated to charitable causes on a yearly basis -- and those are just the initiatives that we know about.

    That doesn't prove that they care.  Plenty of companies make charitable contributions because it looks good.
    Hence the quotation marks. At least the funds go into the hands of people who do care (without quotation marks).


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.
    I live in Oregon. Our vote doesn't matter anyway, even if you care.

    We're over-simplifying a complicated issue. There's a lot of truth in every corner of it that's overlooked in the discussion. It may not be possible to do it justice or be worth the effort. I think it was @FrodoFragins who had a signature that went something to the effect, "For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is as wrong as it is simple." That happens a lot in discussions here in my opinion because the format doesn't lend itself well to having them.

    I hope you find a good path through the trademark fiasco. That sort of stuff is exhausting to deal with.
    We do very much care.

    What ever happens down there, has a big effect on what happens up here.

    Socially and Economically.
    Gdemami

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,669
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.
    I live in Oregon. Our vote doesn't matter anyway, even if you care.

    We're over-simplifying a complicated issue. There's a lot of truth in every corner of it that's overlooked in the discussion. It may not be possible to do it justice or be worth the effort. I think it was @FrodoFragins who had a signature that went something to the effect, "For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is as wrong as it is simple." That happens a lot in discussions here in my opinion because the format doesn't lend itself well to having them.

    I hope you find a good path through the trademark fiasco. That sort of stuff is exhausting to deal with.
    We do very much care.

    What ever happens down there, has a big effect on what happens up here.

    Socially and Economically.
    We care here too. That doesn't make our vote matter. It hasn't mattered, ever, and I can't see a feasible scenario where it does while the electoral system stays in place. That's just reality. That's why I say the issue is more complex than can be given justice.

    What do you do in a democratic republic where your vote doesn't matter?

    Regardless, it doesn't change the original premise that we're responsible for our own moral decisions. That goes back to the original topic that the free-love private server system isn't morally superior as was claimed during the Nost fiasco. They're not any better, or worse, than Blizzard. Here's why.

    These people have stolen others work, cheated their users, lied about it, and have done so repeatedly throughout their history of doing this thing. Morally bankrupt and in no position to claim any high ground.

    Blizzard while not responsible for the pirates actions or any of that mess could solve the issue. That doesn't make them culpable or bad with regards to any of the pirate activity, but it does show a callous disregard. There is a workable solution here that they could implement, but they won't. They're not obligated to because it's their thing, but they are also ginormous and have a profound impact on the industry. Their self-serving disregard for the rest of the gaming community and industry, the backs of which their success rests upon, shows them to be equally morally bankrupt. It's no win moral situation and neither side is willing to take the high ground.

    I side with Blizzard because it's their stuff to do with as they please. That doesn't mean they get a moral pass or respect from. It means they're within their rights to do with their stuff as they please.
    MadFrenchieSBFordIselinKyleranSovrathlaseritcheyaneAeliousConstantineMeruswanderica
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited October 2017
    Wish I could "insightful" and "awesome" the same post.  Touché, @Torval.
    laseritTorvalcheyane

    image
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,874
    edited October 2017
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.
    I live in Oregon. Our vote doesn't matter anyway, even if you care.

    We're over-simplifying a complicated issue. There's a lot of truth in every corner of it that's overlooked in the discussion. It may not be possible to do it justice or be worth the effort. I think it was @FrodoFragins who had a signature that went something to the effect, "For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is as wrong as it is simple." That happens a lot in discussions here in my opinion because the format doesn't lend itself well to having them.

    I hope you find a good path through the trademark fiasco. That sort of stuff is exhausting to deal with.
    We do very much care.

    What ever happens down there, has a big effect on what happens up here.

    Socially and Economically.
    We care here too. That doesn't make our vote matter. It hasn't mattered, ever, and I can't see a feasible scenario where it does while the electoral system stays in place. That's just reality. That's why I say the issue is more complex than can be given justice.

    What do you do in a democratic republic where your vote doesn't matter?

    Regardless, it doesn't change the original premise that we're responsible for our own moral decisions. That goes back to the original topic that the free-love private server system isn't morally superior as was claimed during the Nost fiasco. They're not any better, or worse, than Blizzard. Here's why.

    These people have stolen others work, cheated their users, lied about it, and have done so repeatedly throughout their history of doing this thing. Morally bankrupt and in no position to claim any high ground.

    Blizzard while not responsible for the pirates actions or any of that mess could solve the issue. That doesn't make them culpable or bad with regards to any of the pirate activity, but it does show a callous disregard. There is a workable solution here that they could implement, but they won't. They're not obligated to because it's their thing, but they are also ginormous and have a profound impact on the industry. Their self-serving disregard for the rest of the gaming community and industry, the backs of which their success rests upon, shows them to be equally morally bankrupt. It's no win moral situation and neither side is willing to take the high ground.

    I side with Blizzard because it's their stuff to do with as they please. That doesn't mean they get a moral pass or respect from. It means they're within their rights to do with their stuff as they please.
      Well , thats all well and good Torv , accept Blizz is not this giant corp monster that many want to portray them as..

    They are a Public co. owned by Hundered of thousnads of investors , who they have to answer to .. There Data does not support the stance that these servers would be profitable and the backers agree ,They cant go into throwing other peoples money around with callous disregard to the people that help build there Trademark ..

      The workable solution is not workable in there opinion which i would trust as they have made the right decisions for investors for 15 years now ..

      They are not self serving at all , they are serving the Investors , Who, the backs of there success actually rest ..
    Sovrath
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,926
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.
    I live in Oregon. Our vote doesn't matter anyway, even if you care.

    We're over-simplifying a complicated issue. There's a lot of truth in every corner of it that's overlooked in the discussion. It may not be possible to do it justice or be worth the effort. I think it was @FrodoFragins who had a signature that went something to the effect, "For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is as wrong as it is simple." That happens a lot in discussions here in my opinion because the format doesn't lend itself well to having them.

    I hope you find a good path through the trademark fiasco. That sort of stuff is exhausting to deal with.
    We do very much care.

    What ever happens down there, has a big effect on what happens up here.

    Socially and Economically.
    We care here too. That doesn't make our vote matter. It hasn't mattered, ever, and I can't see a feasible scenario where it does while the electoral system stays in place. That's just reality. That's why I say the issue is more complex than can be given justice.

    What do you do in a democratic republic where your vote doesn't matter?

    Off topic (and flirting dangerously with political discussions)...

    One of the more interesting ideas that our newly formed provincial coalition government (New Democratic Party + Greens) here in British Columbia has talked about is electoral reform to make the provincial government be reflective of popular vote: If a party gets 12% of the popular vote they would have 12% of the elected representatives.

    Of course that would almost guarantee nothing but coalition governments going forward. But I like that - these old weasels tend to behave better when they have to worry about other old weasels from competing parties they have married for convenience pulling the rug out from under them.
    Torval
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,013
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.
    I live in Oregon. Our vote doesn't matter anyway, even if you care.

    We're over-simplifying a complicated issue. There's a lot of truth in every corner of it that's overlooked in the discussion. It may not be possible to do it justice or be worth the effort. I think it was @FrodoFragins who had a signature that went something to the effect, "For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is as wrong as it is simple." That happens a lot in discussions here in my opinion because the format doesn't lend itself well to having them.

    I hope you find a good path through the trademark fiasco. That sort of stuff is exhausting to deal with.
    We do very much care.

    What ever happens down there, has a big effect on what happens up here.

    Socially and Economically.
    We care here too. That doesn't make our vote matter. It hasn't mattered, ever, and I can't see a feasible scenario where it does while the electoral system stays in place. That's just reality. That's why I say the issue is more complex than can be given justice.

    What do you do in a democratic republic where your vote doesn't matter?

    Off topic (and flirting dangerously with political discussions)...

    One of the more interesting ideas that our newly formed provincial coalition government (New Democratic Party + Greens) here in British Columbia has talked about is electoral reform to make the provincial government be reflective of popular vote: If a party gets 12% of the popular vote they would have 12% of the elected representatives.

    Of course that would almost guarantee nothing but coalition governments going forward. But I like that - these old weasels tend to behave better when they have to worry about other old weasels from competing parties they have married for convenience pulling the rug out from under them.
    Flirting? This post is a wet, sloppy kiss.  ;)
    IselinlaseritTorvalSBFord

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.
    I live in Oregon. Our vote doesn't matter anyway, even if you care.

    We're over-simplifying a complicated issue. There's a lot of truth in every corner of it that's overlooked in the discussion. It may not be possible to do it justice or be worth the effort. I think it was @FrodoFragins who had a signature that went something to the effect, "For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is as wrong as it is simple." That happens a lot in discussions here in my opinion because the format doesn't lend itself well to having them.

    I hope you find a good path through the trademark fiasco. That sort of stuff is exhausting to deal with.
    We do very much care.

    What ever happens down there, has a big effect on what happens up here.

    Socially and Economically.
    We care here too. That doesn't make our vote matter. It hasn't mattered, ever, and I can't see a feasible scenario where it does while the electoral system stays in place. That's just reality. That's why I say the issue is more complex than can be given justice.

    What do you do in a democratic republic where your vote doesn't matter?

    Off topic (and flirting dangerously with political discussions)...

    One of the more interesting ideas that our newly formed provincial coalition government (New Democratic Party + Greens) here in British Columbia has talked about is electoral reform to make the provincial government be reflective of popular vote: If a party gets 12% of the popular vote they would have 12% of the elected representatives.

    Of course that would almost guarantee nothing but coalition governments going forward. But I like that - these old weasels tend to behave better when they have to worry about other old weasels from competing parties they have married for convenience pulling the rug out from under them.
    There's no good reason to continue using the kind of electoral system we use here in the States, except that it continues to assure the two major political parties keep a vicegrip on D.C..

    Technology eliminated the need decades ago.
    TorvalIselin

    image
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,157
    edited October 2017
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.
    I live in Oregon. Our vote doesn't matter anyway, even if you care.

    We're over-simplifying a complicated issue. There's a lot of truth in every corner of it that's overlooked in the discussion. It may not be possible to do it justice or be worth the effort. I think it was @FrodoFragins who had a signature that went something to the effect, "For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is as wrong as it is simple." That happens a lot in discussions here in my opinion because the format doesn't lend itself well to having them.

    I hope you find a good path through the trademark fiasco. That sort of stuff is exhausting to deal with.
    We do very much care.

    What ever happens down there, has a big effect on what happens up here.

    Socially and Economically.
    We care here too. That doesn't make our vote matter. It hasn't mattered, ever, and I can't see a feasible scenario where it does while the electoral system stays in place. That's just reality. That's why I say the issue is more complex than can be given justice.

    What do you do in a democratic republic where your vote doesn't matter?

    Off topic (and flirting dangerously with political discussions)...

    One of the more interesting ideas that our newly formed provincial coalition government (New Democratic Party + Greens) here in British Columbia has talked about is electoral reform to make the provincial government be reflective of popular vote: If a party gets 12% of the popular vote they would have 12% of the elected representatives.

    Of course that would almost guarantee nothing but coalition governments going forward. But I like that - these old weasels tend to behave better when they have to worry about other old weasels from competing parties they have married for convenience pulling the rug out from under them.
    It sounds good on paper, but it totally sucks for all those who do not live in the population centers. Our population is too centered in one tiny geographical area, all of the smaller communities would be pretty much voiceless.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,926
    laserit said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    When people see their government as corrupt and immoral... it all goes downhill from there.
    When corrupt self-serving individuals elect corrupt people to rule over them then they should set their expectations accordingly.
    No wonder voter turnout is so shitty, the honest voters abstain.
    I live in Oregon. Our vote doesn't matter anyway, even if you care.

    We're over-simplifying a complicated issue. There's a lot of truth in every corner of it that's overlooked in the discussion. It may not be possible to do it justice or be worth the effort. I think it was @FrodoFragins who had a signature that went something to the effect, "For every complex problem there is a simple solution that is as wrong as it is simple." That happens a lot in discussions here in my opinion because the format doesn't lend itself well to having them.

    I hope you find a good path through the trademark fiasco. That sort of stuff is exhausting to deal with.
    We do very much care.

    What ever happens down there, has a big effect on what happens up here.

    Socially and Economically.
    We care here too. That doesn't make our vote matter. It hasn't mattered, ever, and I can't see a feasible scenario where it does while the electoral system stays in place. That's just reality. That's why I say the issue is more complex than can be given justice.

    What do you do in a democratic republic where your vote doesn't matter?

    Off topic (and flirting dangerously with political discussions)...

    One of the more interesting ideas that our newly formed provincial coalition government (New Democratic Party + Greens) here in British Columbia has talked about is electoral reform to make the provincial government be reflective of popular vote: If a party gets 12% of the popular vote they would have 12% of the elected representatives.

    Of course that would almost guarantee nothing but coalition governments going forward. But I like that - these old weasels tend to behave better when they have to worry about other old weasels from competing parties they have married for convenience pulling the rug out from under them.
    It sounds good on paper, but it totally sucks for all those who do not live in the population centers.
    It would be in their best political interest to make sure that there are a few token rural MPs near the top of the party pecking order. Besides, local interest representation once they get to Victoria and form the government is more myth than reality.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,013
    Scorchien said:


      They are not self serving at all , they are serving the Investors , Who, the backs of there success actually rest ..
    Yeah, that's what our collectors chant to themselves as they repossess people's autos and homes, "For Shareholder Value!"

    B)
    forcelima

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    So...about that political discussion....*coughs* nono *coughs*
    IselinlaseritMadFrenchieGhavrigg


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


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