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Elysium 'Private Server' Shuts Down Temporarily Due to Financial Shenanigans - World of Warcraft - M

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Comments

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,210
    edited October 2017
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
    Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.

    The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.

    It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
    SBFordForgrimmTorvalzigalucardConstantineMerus
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,541
    Iselin said:
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
    Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.

    The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.

    It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
    You sound like you are trying to lump anyone who plays a private server together as fans of "pirate" servers. Like we are purposefully going out of our way to ONLY play on those servers. Which isn't true at all.

    I play retail WoW. I pay the monthly fee. I actually happen to play it almost every day as well. It just doesn't offer the same experience the old Vanilla game did. So I play those servers as well. Not because they are "pirate" servers but because it's literally the only way to play that version of the game. 

    You can say it's a totally different game because they have redone the entire world after Cataclysm, they have made drastic combat changes, drastic class changes, made classes not as unique as they used to be, made all of the old content pretty much soloable and most of the quests are completely different. Just like your personality may have developed more after you were 10 years old making you seem like a completely different person. 
    Gdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,210
    Iselin said:
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
    Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.

    The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.

    It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
    You sound like you are trying to lump anyone who plays a private server together as fans of "pirate" servers. Like we are purposefully going out of our way to ONLY play on those servers. Which isn't true at all.

    I play retail WoW. I pay the monthly fee. I actually happen to play it almost every day as well. It just doesn't offer the same experience the old Vanilla game did. So I play those servers as well. Not because they are "pirate" servers but because it's literally the only way to play that version of the game. 

    You can say it's a totally different game because they have redone the entire world after Cataclysm, they have made drastic combat changes, drastic class changes, made classes not as unique as they used to be, made all of the old content pretty much soloable and most of the quests are completely different. Just like your personality may have developed more after you were 10 years old making you seem like a completely different person. 
    I may seem like a completely different person than 10 yr. old mini me, but a DNA analysis would quickly prove otherwise :)

    Hey, I'm not coming down on pirating. I have been know to DL movies, TV shows and music on occasions. But I don't try to justify it by calling it something else. It's pirating.
    SBFordTorvalConstantineMerus
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • DeficineironDeficineiron Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited October 2017
    Iselin said:
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
    Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.

    The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.

    It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
    Let's see how many folks you trick into arguing semantics with you about whether retail is actually vanilla wow with some patches vs being a substantially different game running under the same title, etc.  This is a good gambit because you can argue it all day long, it cannot be disproven, and it distracts from conversation/focus on the gameplay mechanics and other aspects that have changed.
    Panther2103Gdemami
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,443
    Iselin said:
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
    Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.

    The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.

    It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
    Let's see how many folks you trick into arguing semantics with you about whether retail is actually vanilla wow with some patches vs being a substantially different game running under the same title, etc.  This is a good gambit because you can argue it all day long, it cannot be disproven, and it distracts from conversation/focus on the gameplay mechanics and other aspects that have changed.
    Can't the same be said about the opposite? Same rules apply as far as I can see. But in this case it distracts from the many, many things that have stayed the same.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    SBFordTorval
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,367
    Even tho i'm the first person in a queue waiting for classic WoW realms i believe #Deficineiron is right. The little people are in the panel answering customers' questions, while strategy meetings take place somewhere else, and the little guys know how their bosses think. So i take this "You think you do but you don't" as "If it was for me, sure, but my boss would never accept it".

    I'm pretty sure we won't see any new MMOs from A/B anytime soon, so until some other company creates something worthy to log on the pServers are our best choice to enjoy a rewarding MMO experience.
    Gdemami
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Stizzled said:
    kitarad said:
    I find this a little amusing because when Nostralius shut down there were some very passionate posters who were lauding the integrity of the people who run these servers. That they were doing this because they loved WoW and so on and so forth. So we are now discovering they're a bunch of thieves....surprise well not really.

    Why don't they just outright charge for it since they are out of Blizzard's reach they can basically just charge and pay people properly so that they don't steal to make a living. They can hire and run it properly.

    All the hypocritical people who have been playing for free are now acting all outraged....dude you were playing on a private server leave the outrage outside the door please before you enter.
    I was one of those people, and I still uphold their integrity. I still have zero doubt that the people who have, and will continue to run Elysium do it because they want to give people Vanilla WoW.

    If you choose to believe them, most of the money made from selling gold and the few (literally 3 that we know of) max level characters was put back into server hosting. Even if you don't believe that, who cares? It's an illegal server and all of us playing are doing so against Blizzard's ToS for fuck's sake!

    The only people making a stink out of this are the same people who made a stink back in February when the allegations were first made and then denied. Once the complaining died down the rest of us normal players went on playing. 

    Normal players aren't shocked by this. This isn't our first private WoW server, we know these guys skim money off the top. If it keeps them working and improving the server then so be it.

    Even the former Elysium devs who orchestrated this mutiny admit that in the past they've done the same things on other projects (and no one would be surprised if they had on Elysium as well). 

    Now that it's all out in the open I think the Elysium devs will do exactly what you say, just outright charge people with a cash shop. It's already been discussed fairly heavily and the community seems rather okay with it.
    They've been shown to not have integrity by their very actions. Some of the admin team being ignorant of this doesn't absolve them of responsibility. They took peoples money which was given in good faith and they did not carry through with that.

    During the Nost fiasco it was pointed out time and again that they didn't collect money and did this on their own so they should be given a pass. Come to find out that's a big forking lie too. So now they'll drop all pretense and just open a cash shop and how are they different than big publishers now except they've stolen everything they have built their version of the game on. Integrity by the developers and players of this game shouldn't ever enter a conversation.

    So the disgusting final answer for our society is that since they're lying thieves anyway it's okay that they have no morals. It's like the discussion with the Fortnite cheaters who felt that liars were worse because they're not being honest about their cheating giving the "good cheaters" a bad name.

    I probably wouldn't care at all except for some of the people in this thread throwing morals out the window suddenly seem to find them again when it comes time to pay a real publisher like EA or Blizzard. People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    SBFordlahnmir
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,272
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    [Deleted User]Gdemami

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    Blizzard consistently shows its attention to "caring" with millions donated to charitable causes on a yearly basis -- and those are just the initiatives that we know about.

    That aside, it isn't good business to "care" -- a hyperbolic word used in regard to financial ventures, to say the least -- about a project that isn't financially worth the investment. The job of any business is to make money for themselves and their investors. If they could make enough to offset the cost of hosting and updating for vanilla servers, they would without one single doubt.
    TorvalAelious


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • RockardRockard Member UncommonPosts: 206
    Drama.
    Guys steal the code of a game and run a illegal server.
    But they must be nice guys,because they give vanilla WoW to the people.
    Turns out they really are not that nice guys(totally unexpected).
    More drama.

    *Not enough pop corn.
    SBFordAelious
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    SBFord said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    Blizzard consistently shows its attention to "caring" with millions donated to charitable causes on a yearly basis -- and those are just the initiatives that we know about.

    That aside, it isn't good business to "care" -- a hyperbolic word used in regard to financial ventures, to say the least -- about a project that isn't financially worth the investment. The job of any business is to make money for themselves and their investors. If they could make enough to offset the cost of hosting and updating for vanilla servers, they would without one single doubt.
    That's a strong phrase at the end.


    Nothing qualifies the profiteering off of this server.  That's clear.  But I don't remember where Blizzard said they would have opened those servers had they any indication they would merely break even in the endeavor.  Do you have a quote or something I've missed?

    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Gdemami

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,029
    Rockard said:
    Drama.
    Guys steal the code of a game and run a illegal server.
    But they must be nice guys,because they give vanilla WoW to the people.
    Turns out they really are not that nice guys(totally unexpected).
    More drama.

    *Not enough pop corn.
    Is it "stolen" code? I thought  I read the server side code was created independently, or is that just a cover story?

    I think one of the reasons this site permits the conversation is they believe the origin tale which if true means nothing is actually stolen.
    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,824

    SBFord said:

    Honestly, is anyone surprised? The temptation's real.



    I am not really surprised. It is quite common that developers are selling gold and/ or ingame items for real cash.
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Hardly. All overwrought arguments for or against the entire issue of vanilla servers are irrelevant compared to the bottom line of a Fortune 500 company that has undoubtedly researched this particular issue to death to see if it can be made profitable. That no move to create legacy servers has been made to date reveals that, at least as of now, it's not worth the investment. 

    In the end, that's what it all boils down to.
    KyleranGhavriggTorval


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member EpicPosts: 1,955
    Oh darn, thieves got robbed. What a pity, really. Boo hoo. Now where will all the freeloaders, entitled whiners, and nostalgic historical revisionists go?

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    edited October 2017
    SBFord said:
    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Hardly. All overwrought arguments for or against the entire issue of vanilla servers are irrelevant compared to the bottom line of a Fortune 500 company that has undoubtedly researched this particular issue to death to see if it can be made profitable. That no move to create legacy servers has been made to date reveals that, at least as of now, it's not worth the investment. 

    In the end, that's what it all boils down to.
    You've got this straight forward realism that would make me feel bad and/or aroused if used against me.
  • StizzledStizzled Member RarePosts: 1,975
    Torval said:
    Stizzled said:
    kitarad said:
    I find this a little amusing because when Nostralius shut down there were some very passionate posters who were lauding the integrity of the people who run these servers. That they were doing this because they loved WoW and so on and so forth. So we are now discovering they're a bunch of thieves....surprise well not really.

    Why don't they just outright charge for it since they are out of Blizzard's reach they can basically just charge and pay people properly so that they don't steal to make a living. They can hire and run it properly.

    All the hypocritical people who have been playing for free are now acting all outraged....dude you were playing on a private server leave the outrage outside the door please before you enter.
    I was one of those people, and I still uphold their integrity. I still have zero doubt that the people who have, and will continue to run Elysium do it because they want to give people Vanilla WoW.

    If you choose to believe them, most of the money made from selling gold and the few (literally 3 that we know of) max level characters was put back into server hosting. Even if you don't believe that, who cares? It's an illegal server and all of us playing are doing so against Blizzard's ToS for fuck's sake!

    The only people making a stink out of this are the same people who made a stink back in February when the allegations were first made and then denied. Once the complaining died down the rest of us normal players went on playing. 

    Normal players aren't shocked by this. This isn't our first private WoW server, we know these guys skim money off the top. If it keeps them working and improving the server then so be it.

    Even the former Elysium devs who orchestrated this mutiny admit that in the past they've done the same things on other projects (and no one would be surprised if they had on Elysium as well). 

    Now that it's all out in the open I think the Elysium devs will do exactly what you say, just outright charge people with a cash shop. It's already been discussed fairly heavily and the community seems rather okay with it.
    They've been shown to not have integrity by their very actions. Some of the admin team being ignorant of this doesn't absolve them of responsibility. They took peoples money which was given in good faith and they did not carry through with that.

    During the Nost fiasco it was pointed out time and again that they didn't collect money and did this on their own so they should be given a pass. Come to find out that's a big forking lie too. So now they'll drop all pretense and just open a cash shop and how are they different than big publishers now except they've stolen everything they have built their version of the game on. Integrity by the developers and players of this game shouldn't ever enter a conversation.

    So the disgusting final answer for our society is that since they're lying thieves anyway it's okay that they have no morals. It's like the discussion with the Fortnite cheaters who felt that liars were worse because they're not being honest about their cheating giving the "good cheaters" a bad name.

    I probably wouldn't care at all except for some of the people in this thread throwing morals out the window suddenly seem to find them again when it comes time to pay a real publisher like EA or Blizzard. People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Elysium have done exactly what they said they would with the donations, kept the server up and running. They've even been in the process of transferring the servers over to newer, more powerful hardware. It's not as if they simply took the money and ran. 

    I don't remember anyone who actually knew what they were talking about saying that the Elysium staff would never collect money. The Nost staff, after a certain point, no longer allowed donations and even before that the donations were completely private and you had to ask a moderator for the private link. 

    I'm not trying to defend their behavior, I just honestly don't care. As long as they continue to provide the servers and continue the progressive development I'm happy.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,029
    edited October 2017

    SBFord said:

    Honestly, is anyone surprised? The temptation's real.



    I am not really surprised. It is quite common that developers are selling gold and/ or ingame items for real cash.
    Interestingly enough the DAOC freeshard is exactly that, no cash shop, no offline store, no donations accepted.

    A true labor of love.

    Well that and I think they are trying to avoid antagonizing the IP owner as the server and team are located in countries where court action would likely be enforced.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,541
    SBFord said:
    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Hardly. All overwrought arguments for or against the entire issue of vanilla servers are irrelevant compared to the bottom line of a Fortune 500 company that has undoubtedly researched this particular issue to death to see if it can be made profitable. That no move to create legacy servers has been made to date reveals that, at least as of now, it's not worth the investment. 

    In the end, that's what it all boils down to.
    I think you are correct in stating that it might not be worth the investment for them. But honestly I feel like they are holding off on vanilla servers or any form of progression server until the games population dies down more. Once an expansion doesn't bring the numbers back it once did I'm sure they will look into it as an option. It is always a last ditch effort by companies to bring attention back to an MMO that doesn't have the population they once had. 

    Honestly I'm sure they know better than anyone but in my opinion I feel like it would bring back so many people. The vanilla private servers tend to retain ALOT of players (obviously not as much as a retail one would), whereas normal private servers get attention then die off pretty quick. 
  • DeficineironDeficineiron Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited October 2017
    Ghavrigg said:
    SBFord said:
    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Hardly. All overwrought arguments for or against the entire issue of vanilla servers are irrelevant compared to the bottom line of a Fortune 500 company that has undoubtedly researched this particular issue to death to see if it can be made profitable. That no move to create legacy servers has been made to date reveals that, at least as of now, it's not worth the investment. 

    In the end, that's what it all boils down to.
    You've got this straight forward realism that would make me feel bad and/or aroused if used against me.
    there are a couple of tangential aspects to this worth at least bringing up

    1) corporations at this level have internal politics.  given how much of blizzard's current effort has been directed to getting as far away from 'classic wow' as possible, this has to be a divisive factor for them internally, as classic wow functionally would repudiate 8+ years of changes.

    2) corporate game design philosophy - a/b makes accessible games, and classic wow is the antithesis of accessible by today's standards.  it is quite possible that alone is a deal-breaker, or that it would then entail accessibilizing the game in a way that even the blizzard folks don't want to do.  See my Frankenstein server post above.

    Corporations are about money, and publicly traded ones even more so in the short-term, but always within their own corporate governance norms and philosophy, as well as the real potential of simply being wrong.   Activision-Blizzard is about mass-market accessible games, and they have been enormously successful at it overall, as Activision was prior to the merger.  I find it hard to imagine them green-lighting a classic server project without so many conditions attached to the project that what emerged from blizzard would look like every classic player's worst nightmare of modern wow mixed with classic.

    I will throw in my own take on the merger and wow - I have watched/read a lot of Kotick interviews including from prior to and around the time of the merger, and I don't think he 'got' what hooked players into MMO's, nor the ramifications of loosening those 'hooks' in order to accessibilize the game.  I think he saw blizzard with this uniquely successful property that they were intentionally self-limiting their market with due to various 'inaccessible' features/aspects, and felt that this was just stupid, and that a more accessible game could do better.

    By the numbers, I think he was wrong and that the starter steps towards more accessible content from 3.0.2 forward were the peak in western wow subs and revenue.  (china had entirely different issues in play and had substantial sub growth and revenue growth while being in different game version during the western wotlk period).


    TorvalGhavriggdeniterwanderica
  • DeficineironDeficineiron Member CommonPosts: 4

    SBFord said:

    Honestly, is anyone surprised? The temptation's real.



    I am not really surprised. It is quite common that developers are selling gold and/ or ingame items for real cash.
    I am very interested in seeing numbers on what he was bringing in with gold and character sales.  My brief experience with the (retail) gold market as a provider was that servers much less active that elysium was had substantial demand for it (this was before blizz got into the business themselves).

    It might be the numbers being made off the gold sales to resellers make the 2k euro taken from paypal look like peanuts or a rounding error. 
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    No it doesn't. Personal morality isn't the responsibility of another individual or corporation. It starts with each one of us and our choices from the inside out.
    SBFordConstantineMerus
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,443
    Oh darn, thieves got robbed. What a pity, really. Boo hoo. Now where will all the freeloaders, entitled whiners, and nostalgic historical revisionists go?
    Here.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Torval
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    SBFord said:
    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Hardly. All overwrought arguments for or against the entire issue of vanilla servers are irrelevant compared to the bottom line of a Fortune 500 company that has undoubtedly researched this particular issue to death to see if it can be made profitable. That no move to create legacy servers has been made to date reveals that, at least as of now, it's not worth the investment. 

    In the end, that's what it all boils down to.
    That's why I said your last statement was strong.  Offsetting the costs is not the same as not being profitable enough.  Implying they would move forward without hesitation if they could simply offset the cost is a strong statement.

    image
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Kyleran said:

    SBFord said:

    Honestly, is anyone surprised? The temptation's real.



    I am not really surprised. It is quite common that developers are selling gold and/ or ingame items for real cash.
    Interestingly enough the DAOC freeshard is exactly that, no cash shop, no offline store, no donations accepted.

    A true labor of love.

    Well that and I think they are trying to avoid antagonizing the IP owner as the server and team are located in countries where court action would likely be enforced.
    They exist. They're few and far between. I've seen a Lineage server like that too but it's gone now. Go figure.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


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