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Elysium 'Private Server' Shuts Down Temporarily Due to Financial Shenanigans - World of Warcraft - M

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,782
    Gdemami said:
    Kyleran said:
     those for "dead games such as SWG 
    ...which is weird since the servers are still as illegal as any other.
    Not my rules....just a form of splitting hairs which I'm sure would come to a halt if WDW objected.
    ConstantineMerus

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DeficineironDeficineiron Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited October 2017

    Tamanous said:



    Good, now the freeloaders can pay for a WoW sub like everyone else. The only reason they were playing this server was because it was free (with a cash shop I guess). No more stealing from Blizzard, and if they still don't want to pay for WoW (which you can play for free anyway by grinding gold)...well plenty of other free MMOs.

    >The likely outcome may actually be that Blizzard corrupts the legacy experience MORE than private emulation actually wants. Why? Because Blizzard's track record only proves it by the the very act of meta-marketed production of Wow that destroyed vanilla in the eye's of the players who support Nost/Elysium/Lightshope and I do not, nor ever will support emulators outside of that philosophy.
    .



    This is my major reservation about the entire 'blizzard classic servers' movement. I simply don't believe Activision-Blizzard is institutionally capable of just releasing classic wow without tremendous accessibility changes and most likely eventual cash-shop tie-ins. I have even wondered if "you think you do but you don't' was informed by this likely eventuality - that what people would get is Frankenstein servers - the map and quest flavor of classic wow, with

    1) Mobs that tickle and giggle rather than hit
    2) GY and Flight points like retail
    3) BG's modified to fit the current 15-minute philosophy, despite classic AV being one of the most common requests I have seen. Lets not forget the brilliant WSG 4.1 changes too!!
    4) 'quick and easy chain pull' instances - no more of this marked pull and cc stuff. everything, even BRD and whole strath, should be done in 45 min or less. everyone finishes the baron run in time!
    5) probably need to replace confusing non-linear places like scholo with the more accessible modern versions. People can get lost in there!!
    6) greatly reduced xp/level req.,
    7) quest-target item sparkles, like 2.3
    8) while preserving the themes of classic quests, they need to be linearized so players don't have to make decisions on what to do next or look around for a quest giver off by itself somewhere.
    9) dungeon finder/raid finder. say goodbye to any challenge in dungeons.
    10) that mount sure is expensive!! why not get a little helping hand with your gold by selling your token in the classic version rather than retail? Also, save time and down KT tonight- get your lvl 60 boost in the store!!!

    The major underlying concept is A/B wouldn't make 'classic' servers for the folks that want the game tuning/design of classic wow - they would make a 'classic experience' for their current playerbase.  Everyone kills KT, at least on LFR...random grouping determines tuning on all group content  (= faceroll).  Battlegrounds have tight time leashes to prevent players not getting their measured honor dose.   etc. etc. etc.

    at any rate, I think you get the idea. It would be the worst of both worlds. It would be Gandalf as Ring-Lord, as tolkein describes in a letter

    "But if Gandalf had been the victor it would have been far worse than Sauron winning. The "righteous" Gandalf would have become self-righteous, ruling and ordering things for "good" until he had made good detestable and seem evil.""

    Post edited by Deficineiron on
    deniterJamesGoblin
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Phry said:
    Torval said:
    I'm surprised there aren't more people outraged that so many people got screwed over after donating in good faith. In this case gamers literally got cheated out of their money. Sad. I hope that team is held accountable.
    That's why I mentioned working with these developers and providing close oversight would be a much better option than forcing them to work on the shady ends of legality.  Forcing them to keep detailed cost and revenue records and turning over all proceeds above operating costs to the original creator seems like a much better compromise for everyone involved than making an example out of a server once in a blue moon and allowing things like this to happen otherwise.
    What they are doing is illegal, so yes they are forced to work in the 'shady end of legality' because one wrong move from them and they end up on the wrong end of a court case, perhaps even prison. Sorry to burst the 'bubble' but when you are knowingly, perhaps willfully breaking the law the risks you take are entirely of your own making, and if it all goes pear shaped, then, sorry, but thats on you. Or as my uncle used to say, if you can't do the time, don't do the crime.
    The point being that there could be a better way to handle these servers than the way it's currently being handled.  As others have mentioned, you'll never stamp them out completely.  So either keep making a show of one server every so many years, amounting to nothing really to prevent the supply of said servers and setting up folks to easily make shady money off your product, or come to an agreement that allows you oversight of said server so as to enable any profits made, however large or small, go to your pocket instead of some rando, all with as little effort and time on your part as possible.

    It has the added effect of PR bonus.
    Gdemami

    image
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,072
    vtravi said:
    Good, now the freeloaders can pay for a WoW sub like everyone else. The only reason they were playing this server was because it was free (with a cash shop I guess). No more stealing from Blizzard, and if they still don't want to pay for WoW (which you can play for free anyway by grinding gold)...well plenty of other free MMOs.
    Are you insane? I tried retail Wow. Legion is horrible, I can take my tank and round up every mob in a zone, kill them all and finish with full health. How is this fun? I never played Wow until WotLK and it was never my favorite game but I played because my friends played. I recently tried this Vanilla Wow and it blew me away. Leveling is a challenge. By level 10 I have died a ton. You get a gear upgrade at lvl 8 and it is exciting because you need it. This has nothing to do with it being free, it has to do with it being a vastly superior product. I only play games with Subs which leaves not too many games these days. I really wish someone would make a vanilla LOTRO game as that was my all time favorite game....
    Games change. Doesn't mean its right to steal or pirate them. I don't like Fallout 4 at all. I thought fallout 3 and new vegas are vastly superior. Doesn't mean I'm going to go ahead and pirate fallout 3/nv (even though I own both, just an example) because the newer game is, to me, worse. Not exactly the same, but point stands that even if a game changes doesn't mean you should steal from the developers.
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game. Blizzard is no longer offering that experience, whereas private servers are. Your comparison would make sense if you could no longer buy Fallout 3 / NV and the only way to play those would be through illegal methods. 

    I am not entirely for pirating things but I'm completely for playing an experience that is no longer available, like shut down games or older versions of games. Look at Project 1999, that server has been allowed to run because it was up prior to them releasing their progression servers. Or any of the UO private shards that have old versions of the game. 

    I'm not saying the people running the servers aren't sketchy, but I am saying that if you want a specific experience, you can get it through private servers until blizzard offers it. It isn't freeloading to freeload, it's playing the only available option to get that specific version of the game you liked.
    deniterIselinGdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,348
    edited October 2017
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
    Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.

    The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.

    It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
    SBFordForgrimmTorvalzigalucardConstantineMerus
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,072
    Iselin said:
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
    Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.

    The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.

    It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
    You sound like you are trying to lump anyone who plays a private server together as fans of "pirate" servers. Like we are purposefully going out of our way to ONLY play on those servers. Which isn't true at all.

    I play retail WoW. I pay the monthly fee. I actually happen to play it almost every day as well. It just doesn't offer the same experience the old Vanilla game did. So I play those servers as well. Not because they are "pirate" servers but because it's literally the only way to play that version of the game. 

    You can say it's a totally different game because they have redone the entire world after Cataclysm, they have made drastic combat changes, drastic class changes, made classes not as unique as they used to be, made all of the old content pretty much soloable and most of the quests are completely different. Just like your personality may have developed more after you were 10 years old making you seem like a completely different person. 
    Gdemami
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 12,348
    Iselin said:
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
    Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.

    The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.

    It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
    You sound like you are trying to lump anyone who plays a private server together as fans of "pirate" servers. Like we are purposefully going out of our way to ONLY play on those servers. Which isn't true at all.

    I play retail WoW. I pay the monthly fee. I actually happen to play it almost every day as well. It just doesn't offer the same experience the old Vanilla game did. So I play those servers as well. Not because they are "pirate" servers but because it's literally the only way to play that version of the game. 

    You can say it's a totally different game because they have redone the entire world after Cataclysm, they have made drastic combat changes, drastic class changes, made classes not as unique as they used to be, made all of the old content pretty much soloable and most of the quests are completely different. Just like your personality may have developed more after you were 10 years old making you seem like a completely different person. 
    I may seem like a completely different person than 10 yr. old mini me, but a DNA analysis would quickly prove otherwise :)

    Hey, I'm not coming down on pirating. I have been know to DL movies, TV shows and music on occasions. But I don't try to justify it by calling it something else. It's pirating.
    SBFordTorvalConstantineMerus
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • DeficineironDeficineiron Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited October 2017
    Iselin said:
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
    Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.

    The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.

    It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
    Let's see how many folks you trick into arguing semantics with you about whether retail is actually vanilla wow with some patches vs being a substantially different game running under the same title, etc.  This is a good gambit because you can argue it all day long, it cannot be disproven, and it distracts from conversation/focus on the gameplay mechanics and other aspects that have changed.
    Panther2103Gdemami
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member EpicPosts: 2,485
    Iselin said:
    But that isn't the same in the MMORPG space and you know that. Vanilla WoW is a completely different game.
    Umm... no it isn't. That's just the convenient spin and rtationalization fans of these pirate servers use to justify it to themselves and try to separate it from more obvious IP theft.

    The current WOW is just vanilla WOW many, many patches later. You may not like where they took it (I don't either) but saying it's truly a different game is just BS.

    It's just as silly as saying that me at 10 years old was a different person.
    Let's see how many folks you trick into arguing semantics with you about whether retail is actually vanilla wow with some patches vs being a substantially different game running under the same title, etc.  This is a good gambit because you can argue it all day long, it cannot be disproven, and it distracts from conversation/focus on the gameplay mechanics and other aspects that have changed.
    Can't the same be said about the opposite? Same rules apply as far as I can see. But in this case it distracts from the many, many things that have stayed the same.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    SBFordTorval
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,330
    Even tho i'm the first person in a queue waiting for classic WoW realms i believe #Deficineiron is right. The little people are in the panel answering customers' questions, while strategy meetings take place somewhere else, and the little guys know how their bosses think. So i take this "You think you do but you don't" as "If it was for me, sure, but my boss would never accept it".

    I'm pretty sure we won't see any new MMOs from A/B anytime soon, so until some other company creates something worthy to log on the pServers are our best choice to enjoy a rewarding MMO experience.
    Gdemami
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 18,994
    Stizzled said:
    kitarad said:
    I find this a little amusing because when Nostralius shut down there were some very passionate posters who were lauding the integrity of the people who run these servers. That they were doing this because they loved WoW and so on and so forth. So we are now discovering they're a bunch of thieves....surprise well not really.

    Why don't they just outright charge for it since they are out of Blizzard's reach they can basically just charge and pay people properly so that they don't steal to make a living. They can hire and run it properly.

    All the hypocritical people who have been playing for free are now acting all outraged....dude you were playing on a private server leave the outrage outside the door please before you enter.
    I was one of those people, and I still uphold their integrity. I still have zero doubt that the people who have, and will continue to run Elysium do it because they want to give people Vanilla WoW.

    If you choose to believe them, most of the money made from selling gold and the few (literally 3 that we know of) max level characters was put back into server hosting. Even if you don't believe that, who cares? It's an illegal server and all of us playing are doing so against Blizzard's ToS for fuck's sake!

    The only people making a stink out of this are the same people who made a stink back in February when the allegations were first made and then denied. Once the complaining died down the rest of us normal players went on playing. 

    Normal players aren't shocked by this. This isn't our first private WoW server, we know these guys skim money off the top. If it keeps them working and improving the server then so be it.

    Even the former Elysium devs who orchestrated this mutiny admit that in the past they've done the same things on other projects (and no one would be surprised if they had on Elysium as well). 

    Now that it's all out in the open I think the Elysium devs will do exactly what you say, just outright charge people with a cash shop. It's already been discussed fairly heavily and the community seems rather okay with it.
    They've been shown to not have integrity by their very actions. Some of the admin team being ignorant of this doesn't absolve them of responsibility. They took peoples money which was given in good faith and they did not carry through with that.

    During the Nost fiasco it was pointed out time and again that they didn't collect money and did this on their own so they should be given a pass. Come to find out that's a big forking lie too. So now they'll drop all pretense and just open a cash shop and how are they different than big publishers now except they've stolen everything they have built their version of the game on. Integrity by the developers and players of this game shouldn't ever enter a conversation.

    So the disgusting final answer for our society is that since they're lying thieves anyway it's okay that they have no morals. It's like the discussion with the Fortnite cheaters who felt that liars were worse because they're not being honest about their cheating giving the "good cheaters" a bad name.

    I probably wouldn't care at all except for some of the people in this thread throwing morals out the window suddenly seem to find them again when it comes time to pay a real publisher like EA or Blizzard. People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    SBFordlahnmir
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,065
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    SedrynTyrosGdemami

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 32,937
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    Blizzard consistently shows its attention to "caring" with millions donated to charitable causes on a yearly basis -- and those are just the initiatives that we know about.

    That aside, it isn't good business to "care" -- a hyperbolic word used in regard to financial ventures, to say the least -- about a project that isn't financially worth the investment. The job of any business is to make money for themselves and their investors. If they could make enough to offset the cost of hosting and updating for vanilla servers, they would without one single doubt.
    TorvalAelious


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • RockardRockard Member UncommonPosts: 199
    Drama.
    Guys steal the code of a game and run a illegal server.
    But they must be nice guys,because they give vanilla WoW to the people.
    Turns out they really are not that nice guys(totally unexpected).
    More drama.

    *Not enough pop corn.
    SBFordAelious
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    SBFord said:
    laserit said:
    Torval said:

     People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Starts at the top and works its way down.
    Blizzard consistently shows its attention to "caring" with millions donated to charitable causes on a yearly basis -- and those are just the initiatives that we know about.

    That aside, it isn't good business to "care" -- a hyperbolic word used in regard to financial ventures, to say the least -- about a project that isn't financially worth the investment. The job of any business is to make money for themselves and their investors. If they could make enough to offset the cost of hosting and updating for vanilla servers, they would without one single doubt.
    That's a strong phrase at the end.


    Nothing qualifies the profiteering off of this server.  That's clear.  But I don't remember where Blizzard said they would have opened those servers had they any indication they would merely break even in the endeavor.  Do you have a quote or something I've missed?

    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Gdemami

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,782
    Rockard said:
    Drama.
    Guys steal the code of a game and run a illegal server.
    But they must be nice guys,because they give vanilla WoW to the people.
    Turns out they really are not that nice guys(totally unexpected).
    More drama.

    *Not enough pop corn.
    Is it "stolen" code? I thought  I read the server side code was created independently, or is that just a cover story?

    I think one of the reasons this site permits the conversation is they believe the origin tale which if true means nothing is actually stolen.
    Gdemami

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,608

    SBFord said:

    Honestly, is anyone surprised? The temptation's real.



    I am not really surprised. It is quite common that developers are selling gold and/ or ingame items for real cash.
  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 32,937
    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Hardly. All overwrought arguments for or against the entire issue of vanilla servers are irrelevant compared to the bottom line of a Fortune 500 company that has undoubtedly researched this particular issue to death to see if it can be made profitable. That no move to create legacy servers has been made to date reveals that, at least as of now, it's not worth the investment. 

    In the end, that's what it all boils down to.
    KyleranGhavriggTorval


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member RarePosts: 1,935
    Oh darn, thieves got robbed. What a pity, really. Boo hoo. Now where will all the freeloaders, entitled whiners, and nostalgic historical revisionists go?

    AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!

    We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD. 

    #IStandWithVic

  • GhavriggGhavrigg Member RarePosts: 1,308
    edited October 2017
    SBFord said:
    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Hardly. All overwrought arguments for or against the entire issue of vanilla servers are irrelevant compared to the bottom line of a Fortune 500 company that has undoubtedly researched this particular issue to death to see if it can be made profitable. That no move to create legacy servers has been made to date reveals that, at least as of now, it's not worth the investment. 

    In the end, that's what it all boils down to.
    You've got this straight forward realism that would make me feel bad and/or aroused if used against me.
  • StizzledStizzled Member RarePosts: 1,916
    Torval said:
    Stizzled said:
    kitarad said:
    I find this a little amusing because when Nostralius shut down there were some very passionate posters who were lauding the integrity of the people who run these servers. That they were doing this because they loved WoW and so on and so forth. So we are now discovering they're a bunch of thieves....surprise well not really.

    Why don't they just outright charge for it since they are out of Blizzard's reach they can basically just charge and pay people properly so that they don't steal to make a living. They can hire and run it properly.

    All the hypocritical people who have been playing for free are now acting all outraged....dude you were playing on a private server leave the outrage outside the door please before you enter.
    I was one of those people, and I still uphold their integrity. I still have zero doubt that the people who have, and will continue to run Elysium do it because they want to give people Vanilla WoW.

    If you choose to believe them, most of the money made from selling gold and the few (literally 3 that we know of) max level characters was put back into server hosting. Even if you don't believe that, who cares? It's an illegal server and all of us playing are doing so against Blizzard's ToS for fuck's sake!

    The only people making a stink out of this are the same people who made a stink back in February when the allegations were first made and then denied. Once the complaining died down the rest of us normal players went on playing. 

    Normal players aren't shocked by this. This isn't our first private WoW server, we know these guys skim money off the top. If it keeps them working and improving the server then so be it.

    Even the former Elysium devs who orchestrated this mutiny admit that in the past they've done the same things on other projects (and no one would be surprised if they had on Elysium as well). 

    Now that it's all out in the open I think the Elysium devs will do exactly what you say, just outright charge people with a cash shop. It's already been discussed fairly heavily and the community seems rather okay with it.
    They've been shown to not have integrity by their very actions. Some of the admin team being ignorant of this doesn't absolve them of responsibility. They took peoples money which was given in good faith and they did not carry through with that.

    During the Nost fiasco it was pointed out time and again that they didn't collect money and did this on their own so they should be given a pass. Come to find out that's a big forking lie too. So now they'll drop all pretense and just open a cash shop and how are they different than big publishers now except they've stolen everything they have built their version of the game on. Integrity by the developers and players of this game shouldn't ever enter a conversation.

    So the disgusting final answer for our society is that since they're lying thieves anyway it's okay that they have no morals. It's like the discussion with the Fortnite cheaters who felt that liars were worse because they're not being honest about their cheating giving the "good cheaters" a bad name.

    I probably wouldn't care at all except for some of the people in this thread throwing morals out the window suddenly seem to find them again when it comes time to pay a real publisher like EA or Blizzard. People just don't care about right and wrong anymore and I find that sad.
    Elysium have done exactly what they said they would with the donations, kept the server up and running. They've even been in the process of transferring the servers over to newer, more powerful hardware. It's not as if they simply took the money and ran. 

    I don't remember anyone who actually knew what they were talking about saying that the Elysium staff would never collect money. The Nost staff, after a certain point, no longer allowed donations and even before that the donations were completely private and you had to ask a moderator for the private link. 

    I'm not trying to defend their behavior, I just honestly don't care. As long as they continue to provide the servers and continue the progressive development I'm happy.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,782
    edited October 2017

    SBFord said:

    Honestly, is anyone surprised? The temptation's real.



    I am not really surprised. It is quite common that developers are selling gold and/ or ingame items for real cash.
    Interestingly enough the DAOC freeshard is exactly that, no cash shop, no offline store, no donations accepted.

    A true labor of love.

    Well that and I think they are trying to avoid antagonizing the IP owner as the server and team are located in countries where court action would likely be enforced.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,072
    SBFord said:
    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Hardly. All overwrought arguments for or against the entire issue of vanilla servers are irrelevant compared to the bottom line of a Fortune 500 company that has undoubtedly researched this particular issue to death to see if it can be made profitable. That no move to create legacy servers has been made to date reveals that, at least as of now, it's not worth the investment. 

    In the end, that's what it all boils down to.
    I think you are correct in stating that it might not be worth the investment for them. But honestly I feel like they are holding off on vanilla servers or any form of progression server until the games population dies down more. Once an expansion doesn't bring the numbers back it once did I'm sure they will look into it as an option. It is always a last ditch effort by companies to bring attention back to an MMO that doesn't have the population they once had. 

    Honestly I'm sure they know better than anyone but in my opinion I feel like it would bring back so many people. The vanilla private servers tend to retain ALOT of players (obviously not as much as a retail one would), whereas normal private servers get attention then die off pretty quick. 
  • DeficineironDeficineiron Member CommonPosts: 4
    edited October 2017
    Ghavrigg said:
    SBFord said:
    It certainly is worth calling out that they're profiteering, but considering your past post history regarding all things Blizzard, your last sentence swings completely the other way.
    Hardly. All overwrought arguments for or against the entire issue of vanilla servers are irrelevant compared to the bottom line of a Fortune 500 company that has undoubtedly researched this particular issue to death to see if it can be made profitable. That no move to create legacy servers has been made to date reveals that, at least as of now, it's not worth the investment. 

    In the end, that's what it all boils down to.
    You've got this straight forward realism that would make me feel bad and/or aroused if used against me.
    there are a couple of tangential aspects to this worth at least bringing up

    1) corporations at this level have internal politics.  given how much of blizzard's current effort has been directed to getting as far away from 'classic wow' as possible, this has to be a divisive factor for them internally, as classic wow functionally would repudiate 8+ years of changes.

    2) corporate game design philosophy - a/b makes accessible games, and classic wow is the antithesis of accessible by today's standards.  it is quite possible that alone is a deal-breaker, or that it would then entail accessibilizing the game in a way that even the blizzard folks don't want to do.  See my Frankenstein server post above.

    Corporations are about money, and publicly traded ones even more so in the short-term, but always within their own corporate governance norms and philosophy, as well as the real potential of simply being wrong.   Activision-Blizzard is about mass-market accessible games, and they have been enormously successful at it overall, as Activision was prior to the merger.  I find it hard to imagine them green-lighting a classic server project without so many conditions attached to the project that what emerged from blizzard would look like every classic player's worst nightmare of modern wow mixed with classic.

    I will throw in my own take on the merger and wow - I have watched/read a lot of Kotick interviews including from prior to and around the time of the merger, and I don't think he 'got' what hooked players into MMO's, nor the ramifications of loosening those 'hooks' in order to accessibilize the game.  I think he saw blizzard with this uniquely successful property that they were intentionally self-limiting their market with due to various 'inaccessible' features/aspects, and felt that this was just stupid, and that a more accessible game could do better.

    By the numbers, I think he was wrong and that the starter steps towards more accessible content from 3.0.2 forward were the peak in western wow subs and revenue.  (china had entirely different issues in play and had substantial sub growth and revenue growth while being in different game version during the western wotlk period).


    TorvalGhavriggdeniterwanderica
  • DeficineironDeficineiron Member CommonPosts: 4

    SBFord said:

    Honestly, is anyone surprised? The temptation's real.



    I am not really surprised. It is quite common that developers are selling gold and/ or ingame items for real cash.
    I am very interested in seeing numbers on what he was bringing in with gold and character sales.  My brief experience with the (retail) gold market as a provider was that servers much less active that elysium was had substantial demand for it (this was before blizz got into the business themselves).

    It might be the numbers being made off the gold sales to resellers make the 2k euro taken from paypal look like peanuts or a rounding error. 
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