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Are indie games really destroying the industry?

SanelessSaneless Member UncommonPosts: 42
Im just curious  what everyone thinks, it seems like since PC gaming has made a comeback that the market is now just flooded with of a bunch of sub par games. 

Comments

  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,243
    I don't know what comeback you're talking about but i can agree gaming in general is flooded with subpar games. Has been for years now.

    I guess they don't need to even try anymore - people are buying all the shit they produce anyway.
    Gdemami
  • OnodrimOnodrim Member UncommonPosts: 45
    It's just like with beer ... there are so many damn micro brews at the store, I can barely find Bass Ale anymore ... A classic since the 1700's!!! This FOTM crap beating out tried and true classics has to stop!

    ofc it doesn't help when giant names like d&d put out the kind of crap we saw with d@dO ... obviously just trying to cash in on the name with minimal investment... I suppose with mmos indie may be ok after all ... BUT NOT BEER!
  • cielyciely Member UncommonPosts: 82
    it's not the indie games coming up with sub par games though, it's the sponsored games with investors coming up with sub par games because they're forced to listen to their ideas when they have zero development experience. 
    kb4bluDaranarGdemami
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Frankly indie games is the only thing keeping the video game industry in tact.
    AAA market is horrid. Indie market is thriving with great titles if you need a recommended list of games to look at just let me know, and no I am not joking or trolling when I say this so please if you address it take it seriously. I am more than willing to give examples and more details
    GdemamiJamesGoblin

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 24,962
    Onodrim said:
    It's just like with beer ... there are so many damn micro brews at the store, I can barely find Bass Ale anymore ... A classic since the 1700's!!! This FOTM crap beating out tried and true classics has to stop!

    ofc it doesn't help when giant names like d&d put out the kind of crap we saw with d@dO ... obviously just trying to cash in on the name with minimal investment... I suppose with mmos indie may be ok after all ... BUT NOT BEER!
    Try this, put in your zip ...

    https://www.beermenus.com/beers/13-bass-ale?user_type_survey=1




  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,888
    edited October 2017
    Nonsense

    Indie subpar games are not a problem just like AAA subpar games are not a problem because players dont stay long in subpar games.

    The bigger issue is how massive marketing budgets are needed to raise to the top.

    AAA marketing budgets are larger than development budgets.... this has done one thing - only the richest studios are able to compete for top spots, and keep everyone else out.

    how many game makers have a  $100millon marketing budget?

    Good luck being able to compete with that.

    This is exactly the same issue we see in the rest of the economy - the biggest and richest corporations have a stranglehold at the top and have made it impossible for anyone else to compete at their level.

    Large corporations rule the world.

    Post edited by DMKano on
    Gdemami
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,446
    SEANMCAD said:
    Frankly indie games is the only thing keeping the video game industry in tact.
    AAA market is horrid. Indie market is thriving with great titles if you need a recommended list of games to look at just let me know, and no I am not joking or trolling when I say this so please if you address it take it seriously. I am more than willing to give examples and more details
    The Indie market has produced its share of absolutely awful games too. Some of the MMOs that spawned from it are completely dead in the water (PFO, The Repopulation) or complete jokes (Shroud of the Avatar).

    The only thing Indies have been good for are single player and multiplayer titles. And even there, for every several thousands of the damned things, there's only a handful of good ones. Steam is overflowing with crap games.
    JamesGoblin

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  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Indie games have helped keep the game industry going.  With massive failures coming out of the big game studios like CoD:IW and the latest Mass Effect game, it is nice to have an indie game like StarDew Valley or Undertale to fall back on while you wait for the big guys to pull their heads out of their rear ends.
    Gdemami
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • DaranarDaranar Member UncommonPosts: 303
    ciely said:
    it's not the indie games coming up with sub par games though, it's the sponsored games with investors coming up with sub par games because they're forced to listen to their ideas when they have zero development experience. 
    This.  Most of my favorite games are more on the indie side.  Some of the crappiest games out there have 200 million dollar budgets from their parent company that trades on the NYSE.  They have 100 million advertising budgets, and strict time frames for profit turnover (which is IMO what generally leads to their piss poor quality).

    I think the indie games are saving the PC gaming community that the big corporations are unintentionally trying to destroy, and succeeding.

    Indie games are supposed to be shitier than big budget games, so when some of the best games I play are indie, that says something about the big wigs.
    Gdemami

    If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!


  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    Frankly indie games is the only thing keeping the video game industry in tact.
    AAA market is horrid. Indie market is thriving with great titles if you need a recommended list of games to look at just let me know, and no I am not joking or trolling when I say this so please if you address it take it seriously. I am more than willing to give examples and more details
    The Indie market has produced its share of absolutely awful games too. Some of the MMOs that spawned from it are completely dead in the water (PFO, The Repopulation) or complete jokes (Shroud of the Avatar).

    The only thing Indies have been good for are single player and multiplayer titles. And even there, for every several thousands of the damned things, there's only a handful of good ones. Steam is overflowing with crap games.
    but here is the problem with your concept. The NET gain of good games in the indie market is FAR larger than the NET gains of good games in the AAA market by a HUGE margin.

    Let me explain how what I said is true while at the same time what you say is true.

    Hypothetical numbers
    -Indie Released games that are good: 10%
    -AAA released games that are good: 50%
    -number of indie Released games that are bad: 100
    -number of AA released games that are bad: 10

    that looks really good for AAAs doesnt? here is the problem

    -Number of released AAA titles total: 20
    -Number of released indie titles total: 2000

    That means in a year indies have 200 good titles while AAA has 10 even though indies produce more bad titles AND have a lower %


    and that is EXACTLY what is going on at  the moment. would  you like me to provide you some concrete titles of which in total likely total more in numbers then ALL the AAA titles released in 2 years?


    Gdemami

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • reybearreybear Member CommonPosts: 1
    edited October 2017
    nooooooo! i love my indie games
    Post edited by reybear on
    AUNE2018JamesGoblin
  • AUNE2018AUNE2018 Member UncommonPosts: 27
    edited October 2017
    Only to the extent that small businesses can "destroy" big corporations. Also, gamers are buying them, so if anything, it would be us destroying the industry. But everything is a pendulum really - the worse the industry gets, the higher demand for quality games, then developers will design games to accommodate the demand so they can make more moola. 
    Post edited by AUNE2018 on
    reybear
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 996
    edited October 2017
    Sub-par games are a problem if they hurt customers' faith in the market. From what I understand, this is what happened in the 80's, when there was a PC gaming crash.

    This is probably more true for AAA games. If something like Mass Effect: Andromeda is hyped to insane heights, but then delivers a buggy sub-par product, people will be less inclined to buy the next big game. This is a snowball effect, people have to get let down multiple times before they find another hobby.

    There are probably certain "critical" titles, where a failure would set the industry back just by one sub-par game alone. The next Elder Scrolls game, or the next MMO from Blizzard (if there is one).

    Indie games probably don't create enough hype for this to be an issue. No Man's Sky comes to mind as an exception. Other than that, it probably doesn't matter that there are 40 crappy games on Steam each day, as long as you get to see the good ones in the highlights. And the non-highlight indie games that actually end up being good can be found using the review (or curator) system.
    Post edited by laxie on
  • WizardryWizardry Member EpicPosts: 14,464
    Nope,it is cash shops and early access that is destroying it.
    Developers across all genres/games cost doesn't matter,they are building games that are easy to manage,low risk,low cost,unfinished,it is a really bad era for gaming.

    I'll use an example of passion and gaming.

    John Carmack,he was building his game engine while working another job,he took years to pull it off.Now we see a game like Electronic Arts ,a giant,loads of money sp[ending less than 2 years to build Star wars battlefront.Not only less than 2 years,they feel justified in adding a cash shop to this half assed effort to boot...sigh.

    Look at Blizzard,loads of money,they haven't come close to releasing another large game like Wow,it is all low budget crap with again,cash shops.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Wizardry said:
    Nope,it is cash shops and early access that is destroying it.
    ....
    1. cash shops are almost exclusively a AAA tool. I play a lot of indie games and I never ever ever hit a paywall within the game.

    2. Although its becoming less true then it was a few years ago the best titles (in my view) are either in early access or came from early access. Great titles like Kerbal Space Program, 7 Days to Die, Space Engineers, Subnautica just to name a few all have far more depth of game play then the vast majority of all AAA titles AND they are solid games


    its like we live in two different universes isnt?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member UncommonPosts: 122
    The only problem I see it bring is over saturation. Not that having a lot is bad, but it does make it more difficult for good quality, low budget games to be noticed. As it becomes more affordable to create a game, it also becomes more expensive to get the word out and be heard above all the others.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited October 2017
    The only problem I see it bring is over saturation. Not that having a lot is bad, but it does make it more difficult for good quality, low budget games to be noticed. As it becomes more affordable to create a game, it also becomes more expensive to get the word out and be heard above all the others.
    and that is why I agree with Valve that 3rd party solutions to curation should step up their game.

    So basically Valve wants to be like a warehouse of games, with 3rd party curators being the front store. Makes total sense to me, I think its a good idea, but why is it not happening I dont know.

    Reason we need 3rd party curators is because what you look for in a game is not the same as what I look for in a game, standards of quality are NOT universal but they do exist in groups
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    laxie

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member RarePosts: 1,752
    If a game is good who cares who produces it :)
    SEANMCAD
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,123
    Saneless said:
    Im just curious  what everyone thinks, it seems like since PC gaming has made a comeback that the market is now just flooded with of a bunch of sub par games. 
    No, indie games are not destroying the gaming industry. 

    Your question is based on the assumption that the gaming industry is being destroyed. That is a false assumption with no basis in reality. There is no objective measure that I can think of that would support your assumption. Industry turnover, profit, number of companies, games and players are all going up. The gaming industry continues to grow and expand every year and shows no sign of stopping. 

    The only subjective measure I can think of is average quality. Until recently, it was hard to make an indie game so there were less of them. The majority of games were made by professionals and went through rigorous quality control measures. Now, between cheaper/free toolchains and engines, combined with free worldwide digital distribution, it is easier than ever to create an indie game and release it to the world and that is what has happened. Steam is swamped in piss poor quality indie titles. 

    But, as I said, it's a subjective measure and normal market forces result in them disappearing quickly. With a minor amount of research, it is very easy to spot those sub-par indie games and avoid them in favour of higher quality, be it from a AAA game or just a high quality indie game. 



    The only thing that has the potential to destroy the gaming industry are the massive publishing companies, like EA and Ubisoft. Their ever increasing control of the market place, combined with their complete aversion to risk, has resulted in stagnation at the top of the market. This would normally be countered by the mid-tier companies, however EA and co have bought out the majority of those mid-tier companies, allowing the stagnation at the top to continue almost unchallenged. 

    Eventually, normal market forces will correct that stagnation, it just may require the top companies to crash and burn first. 
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