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From an old vet ... this looks like the real deal

OnodrimOnodrim Member UncommonPosts: 45
Im going to send in some cash, these people look like they know what they are doing. 

I played DAoC, LotRO WoW, Wahammer, Darkfall, D&DO all from release (just missed UO :/ ) and this looks like a good one. 

It looks like they took the best ideas from DAoC, UO and Darkfall and rolled them into 1 awesome game. I'm a little skeptical of the graphics (toonish toons?), but if the game plays well that's more important anyway.

Ive also been reading their updates... just released another one today. Looks like they have a qualified full time staff and they've raised over $4million so far to get this going.

I feel bad for jumping on this so late but I've been busy ... I'll throw them a few bucks and hope for the best anyway. This could be the one niche sandbox we've been waiting for!
JamesGoblinOctagon7711Alomar
«1

Comments

  • AshluraAshlura Member UncommonPosts: 123

    I wouldn't compare this to UO and say they added all the great things in UO. UO was a legendary game still played today.

    I have tried to find a game like UO with better graphics and it will never be a thing.

    There were no options back then so you had every playstyle together in one game. PvP, Social, PvE, Explorers, Survivalists, Crafters, etc. It was a game that will never be copied and even if it is the group will be toxic

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    Maybe your donation will permit them to publish a delivery schedule.

    I gave them mine over 4.5 years ago and am still waiting.

    ;)
    JamesGoblinOctagon7711gervaise1waynejr2

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • meddyckmeddyck Member UncommonPosts: 1,279
    Kyleran said:
    Maybe your donation will permit them to publish a delivery schedule.

    I gave them mine over 4.5 years ago and am still waiting.

    ;)
    Software isn't like a package shipped from a warehouse to your home. A delivery schedule wouldn't be worth the pixels used to publish it.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    meddyck said:
    Kyleran said:
    Maybe your donation will permit them to publish a delivery schedule.

    I gave them mine over 4.5 years ago and am still waiting.

    ;)
    Software isn't like a package shipped from a warehouse to your home. A delivery schedule wouldn't be worth the pixels used to publish it.
    As someone who has successfully delivered software for almost 30 years I can assure you this is not true, especially this far into the release cycle the cone of uncertainty should be quite small.

    Unless of course something has happened to push timelines way back which CU hasn't been open about. 

    Maybe they just want it be a surprise. 
    gervaise1

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • GynthaziGynthazi Member UncommonPosts: 41
    Kyleran said:
    meddyck said:
    Kyleran said:
    Maybe your donation will permit them to publish a delivery schedule.

    I gave them mine over 4.5 years ago and am still waiting.

    ;)
    Software isn't like a package shipped from a warehouse to your home. A delivery schedule wouldn't be worth the pixels used to publish it.
    As someone who has successfully delivered software for almost 30 years I can assure you this is not true, especially this far into the release cycle the cone of uncertainty should be quite small.

    Unless of course something has happened to push timelines way back which CU hasn't been open about. 

    Maybe they just want it be a surprise. 
    For someone who donated 4.5 years ago if you were paying attention you'd see they had a massive reason for being delayed. Quite frankly i'm glad they did what they did and even through it set them back a good year and a half or so, i'm hoping it will be worth it. 

    We must be hearing something soon.. maybe another couple months? the weekly updates have more and more content in them I feel.
    JamesGoblinOctagon7711Alomar

    >>> Gynthazi <<<
    "Every man is a divinity in disguise, a God playing the fool." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    Gynthazi said:
    Kyleran said:
    meddyck said:
    Kyleran said:
    Maybe your donation will permit them to publish a delivery schedule.

    I gave them mine over 4.5 years ago and am still waiting.

    ;)
    Software isn't like a package shipped from a warehouse to your home. A delivery schedule wouldn't be worth the pixels used to publish it.
    As someone who has successfully delivered software for almost 30 years I can assure you this is not true, especially this far into the release cycle the cone of uncertainty should be quite small.

    Unless of course something has happened to push timelines way back which CU hasn't been open about. 

    Maybe they just want it be a surprise. 
    For someone who donated 4.5 years ago if you were paying attention you'd see they had a massive reason for being delayed. Quite frankly i'm glad they did what they did and even through it set them back a good year and a half or so, i'm hoping it will be worth it. 

    We must be hearing something soon.. maybe another couple months? the weekly updates have more and more content in them I feel.
    Yep, I know full well what happened,  doesn't excuse the lack of a schedule today.
    JamesGoblin

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 240
    edited November 2017
    Kyleran said:
    Yep, I know full well what happened,  doesn't excuse the lack of a schedule today.
    From what I've seen CSE is terrible at estimating dates. They've missed many of the dates they've announced. (it's not dramatic though, every studio has its weakness, and I prefer that over a lot of other things) Hopefully they will announce a date only when it's 100% sure that they'll make it. Like, after they've entirely implemented and polished every single system of the Beta 1 build. ^^
    JamesGoblinmeddyckOctagon7711
  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 2,236
    I loved Daoc.  This new game looks good.  I wish it had Pve though.  Sometimes I like playing PvP and sometimes PvE.  I like having the choice.
    JamesGoblinKyleran
    Make PvE GREAT Again!
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    Kyleran said:
    meddyck said:
    Kyleran said:
    Maybe your donation will permit them to publish a delivery schedule.

    I gave them mine over 4.5 years ago and am still waiting.

    ;)
    Software isn't like a package shipped from a warehouse to your home. A delivery schedule wouldn't be worth the pixels used to publish it.
    As someone who has successfully delivered software for almost 30 years I can assure you this is not true, especially this far into the release cycle the cone of uncertainty should be quite small.

    Unless of course something has happened to push timelines way back which CU hasn't been open about. 

    Maybe they just want it be a surprise. 
    I must warn all the younglings arounhere about that dreadful demon lurking in the shadows, preying on innocent souls! The name of that horrifying creature is the @Kyleran Trap.

    If you are careless, you can summon it by trying to defend any indie startup kickstarted poor "are we outta money yet?" experimental MMO; Before you know it, you'll be hit by "As someone who has successfully delivered software for almost 30 years..." and - the last thing you'll ever hear will be the sound of trap closing above your head!

    francis_baudKyleranrasgan514Octagon7711Alomar
     W...aaagh?
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    Kyleran said:
    Yep, I know full well what happened,  doesn't excuse the lack of a schedule today.
    From what I've seen CSE is terrible at estimating dates. They've missed many of the dates they've announced. (it's not dramatic though, every studio has its weakness, and I prefer that over a lot of other things) Hopefully they will announce a date only when it's 100% sure that they'll make it. Like, after they've entirely implemented and polished every single system of the Beta 1 build. ^^
    Well so far in the kickstarter world, almost everyone one of these MMORPG titles are terrible at providing any sort of solid timelines.

    Not a money issue really, Star Citizen has boatloads of money, they can't come up with a solid 3.0 date.

    While a timeline to delivery would be nice, right now it's pretty annoying they can't announce a Beta 1 build date at this point, the release was supposed to happen before the end of 2017....but looks like that is not likely unless again, they are planning on surprising us.

    Predicting the future is hard, I get that, I'm asked to do it regularly, and yes, I miss my dates sometimes.  No big deal, if dates are sliding, you explain to the stakeholders why, and adjust them. 

    But going on radio silence for long periods of time, never the right approach, unless you plan on suddenly announcing, great news guys, we'll be launching beta 1 next Tuesday...surprise!


    francis_baudOctagon7711

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 240
    edited November 2017
    Kyleran said:

    [...] But going on radio silence for long periods of time, never the right approach, unless you plan on suddenly announcing, great news guys, we'll be launching beta 1 next Tuesday...surprise!

    I think that it's the exact opposite of radio silence. They're allowing us to directly see (and be part of) the progress through updates, newsletters, live streams, Alpha testing, forum posts, etc.

    They even created a page showing extremely detailed information about where they are and what is left to do before we get into Beta 1.


    http://camelotunchained.com/v3/user-stories/

    Also they've recently added a new card for the Dragon Circle:

    "As a Backer, I want to enter a siege scenario, complete objectives, and have the outcome factor into my player's progression."

    All the items from this card so far are marked as completed. 

    Post edited by francis_baud on
    Octagon7711JamesGoblinmeddyck
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    Kyleran said:

    [...] But going on radio silence for long periods of time, never the right approach, unless you plan on suddenly announcing, great news guys, we'll be launching beta 1 next Tuesday...surprise!

    I think that it's the exact opposite of radio silence. They're allowing us to directly see (and be part of) the progress through updates, newsletters, live streams, Alpha testing, forum posts, etc.

    They even created a page showing extremely detailed information about where they are and what is left to do before we get into Beta 1.


    http://camelotunchained.com/v3/user-stories/

    Also they've recently added a new card for the Dragon Circle:

    "As a Backer, I want to enter a siege scenario, complete objectives, and have the outcome factor into my player's progression."

    All the items from this card so far are marked as completed. 

    Old smoke and mirrors trick. Doesn't matter if they have a list of items to complete, what needs to be added is when do they project each task / all tasks to be done.

    I told Mark long ago I don't care how busy they've been, nor how many tasks remain, tell me when you believe they'll be done.
    Octagon7711JamesGoblinfrancis_baudmeddyck

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 240
    Kyleran said:

    Old smoke and mirrors trick. Doesn't matter if they have a list of items to complete, what needs to be added is when do they project each task / all tasks to be done.

    I told Mark long ago I don't care how busy they've been, nor how many tasks remain, tell me when you believe they'll be done.

    For me it's like CSE is in a car, somewhere in Manhattan, and they can tell us where they are exactly, on what avenue, what intersection, etc. And they're live on Periscope showing the traffic and all, the pedestrians, the traffic lights, etc. And they tell us exactly where they're going, somewhere in New Jersey, and what kind of traffic to expect in the streets. They tell us at what time they departed and how long they've been stuck in this traffic jam. They inform us about their average speed, the size of the car, their driving skills, their past experience as taxi/bus drivers, etc. and ask us to check on Google maps to see how long it says it's going to take before getting there. But they don't know at what time exactly they'll arrive to their destination. It depends on so many factors. So instead of bullshitting us and giving us an estimate that isn't reliable, they're waiting until they at least get on the bridge so they'll know that the worse traffic jams are behind them and the estimation is going to be more accurate.

    They surely could do like (almost) every other KS MMO out there: announce dates, miss them, rinse, repeat.
    JamesGoblinmeddyck
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    francis_baud said:nnouncement
    Kyleran said:

    Old smoke and mirrors trick. Doesn't matter if they have a list of items to complete, what needs to be added is when do they project each task / all tasks to be done.

    I told Mark long ago I don't care how busy they've been, nor how many tasks remain, tell me when you believe they'll be done.

    For me it's like CSE is in a car, somewhere in Manhattan, and they can tell us where they are exactly, on what avenue, what intersection, etc. And they're live on Periscope showing the traffic and all, the pedestrians, the traffic lights, etc. And they tell us exactly where they're going, somewhere in New Jersey, and what kind of traffic to expect in the streets. They tell us at what time they departed and how long they've been stuck in this traffic jam. They inform us about their average speed, the size of the car, their driving skills, their past experience as taxi/bus drivers, etc. and ask us to check on Google maps to see how long it says it's going to take before getting there. But they don't know at what time exactly they'll arrive to their destination. It depends on so many factors. So instead of bullshitting us and giving us an estimate that isn't reliable, they're waiting until they at least get on the bridge so they'll know that the worse traffic jams are behind them and the estimation is going to be more accurate.

    They surely could do like (almost) every other KS MMO out there: announce dates, miss them, rinse, repeat.
    You really should expect more, heck Google maps can always give you a projected arrival time and normally not miss too badly.

    My next question then, it' been 4.5 years, how long are you willing to wait? 6 years, 8 years, 10 years?

    At my age I might not live long enough to see it.  ;)
    francis_baudJamesGoblinmeddyck

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 240
    Kyleran said:

    You really should expect more, heck Google maps can always give you a projected arrival time and normally not miss too badly.

    My next question then, it' been 4.5 years, how long are you willing to wait? 6 years, 8 years, 10 years?

    At my age I might not live long enough to see it.  ;)
    Good question. I've no idea, I'd say maybe max. 2-3 years is reasonable as of today. But I know that in 2-3 years, if it hasn't launched, I'd probably still be waiting. I'm not really a MMO player though, haven't been playing those games for a long time, so my expectations may be different than ex DAoC / WAR players who want to relive this kind of gaming experience. I understand how it may be an uncomfortable situation for you if you do not plan to be able to play CU for years and years.

    JamesGoblin
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    Kyleran said:

    You really should expect more, heck Google maps can always give you a projected arrival time and normally not miss too badly.

    My next question then, it' been 4.5 years, how long are you willing to wait? 6 years, 8 years, 10 years?

    At my age I might not live long enough to see it.  ;)
    Good question. I've no idea, I'd say maybe max. 2-3 years is reasonable as of today. But I know that in 2-3 years, if it hasn't launched, I'd probably still be waiting. I'm not really a MMO player though, haven't been playing those games for a long time, so my expectations may be different than ex DAoC / WAR players who want to relive this kind of gaming experience. I understand how it may be an uncomfortable situation for you if you do not plan to be able to play CU for years and years.

    Funny thing, I may never play it, despite donating to KSer I generally don't enjoy PvPing.

    I will still hold them accountable, it's just what we software PMs do.

    B)


    francis_baudJamesGoblin

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,691
    meddyck said:
    Kyleran said:
    Maybe your donation will permit them to publish a delivery schedule.

    I gave them mine over 4.5 years ago and am still waiting.

    ;)
    Software isn't like a package shipped from a warehouse to your home. A delivery schedule wouldn't be worth the pixels used to publish it.
    He's not your average forum opinionated member. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
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  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,235
    Kyleran said:

    You really should expect more, heck Google maps can always give you a projected arrival time and normally not miss too badly.

    My next question then, it' been 4.5 years, how long are you willing to wait? 6 years, 8 years, 10 years?

    At my age I might not live long enough to see it.  ;)
    Good question. I've no idea, I'd say maybe max. 2-3 years is reasonable as of today. But I know that in 2-3 years, if it hasn't launched, I'd probably still be waiting. I'm not really a MMO player though, haven't been playing those games for a long time, so my expectations may be different than ex DAoC / WAR players who want to relive this kind of gaming experience. I understand how it may be an uncomfortable situation for you if you do not plan to be able to play CU for years and years.

    I would be extremely surprised if we're still waiting another 2-3 years for CU. 

    If I'm remembering correctly, Mark wanted his beta tests to be as close to the finished product as possible. Beta 1 will be a minimum viable product (mvp) and he wants to include as many core features as possible. Future betas will introduce tertiary features, but the majority of the game will be complete and playable for Beta 1. 

    So, we may still have a wait for Beta 1, but when it arrives I expect us to move from Beta 1 to release in a short period of time (6-9months). CSE aren't using beta tests to appease the community (i.e. early access...), nor are they using them to generate hype (like the old fashioned open betas a few weeks before launch). CSE are using the beta tests to actually test their game, and you can't test the game if the game isn't there!


    My expectation is still for a 2018 release, probably timed around Thanksgiving, so I would expect beta 1 to be Feb / March 2018. 


    But, if it's delayed further, thats fine with me as long as the end result is good :P
  • ManestreamManestream Member UncommonPosts: 938
    too many disapointments. i will wait and see how it turns out untill then aint even gonna get hyped.
  • meddyckmeddyck Member UncommonPosts: 1,279

    I would be extremely surprised if we're still waiting another 2-3 years for CU. 

    If I'm remembering correctly, Mark wanted his beta tests to be as close to the finished product as possible. Beta 1 will be a minimum viable product (mvp) and he wants to include as many core features as possible. Future betas will introduce tertiary features, but the majority of the game will be complete and playable for Beta 1. 

    So, we may still have a wait for Beta 1, but when it arrives I expect us to move from Beta 1 to release in a short period of time (6-9months). CSE aren't using beta tests to appease the community (i.e. early access...), nor are they using them to generate hype (like the old fashioned open betas a few weeks before launch). CSE are using the beta tests to actually test their game, and you can't test the game if the game isn't there!


    My expectation is still for a 2018 release, probably timed around Thanksgiving, so I would expect beta 1 to be Feb / March 2018. 


    But, if it's delayed further, thats fine with me as long as the end result is good :P
    Everything CSE wants to have in the game at the start of Beta 1 is outlined on their Beta 1 features list user story cards on their web site. Huge chunks of the game aren't included on that list such as 21 of the 30 combat classes, the 3 realm specific crafter classes, The Depths, the bounty system, the engraving system, moving and connecting islands, etc. Beta 1 doesn't really come close to being a MVP of the launch version of CU imho. What we'll get at the start of Beta 1 or even the end of Beta 1 isn't something CSE could justify charging a monthly sub for.

    I would really be surprised if Beta 1 alone lasts less than 6 months. Keep in mind Beta 1 was estimated to last 4 months during KS and those original KS estimates have proven to be wildly optimistic.

    My view right now is that the game is likely to launch in the 2nd half of 2019. I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong and have it launch in 2018 or the first half of 2019 of course.
    Kyleranfrancis_baud

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    meddyck said:

    I would be extremely surprised if we're still waiting another 2-3 years for CU. 

    If I'm remembering correctly, Mark wanted his beta tests to be as close to the finished product as possible. Beta 1 will be a minimum viable product (mvp) and he wants to include as many core features as possible. Future betas will introduce tertiary features, but the majority of the game will be complete and playable for Beta 1. 

    So, we may still have a wait for Beta 1, but when it arrives I expect us to move from Beta 1 to release in a short period of time (6-9months). CSE aren't using beta tests to appease the community (i.e. early access...), nor are they using them to generate hype (like the old fashioned open betas a few weeks before launch). CSE are using the beta tests to actually test their game, and you can't test the game if the game isn't there!


    My expectation is still for a 2018 release, probably timed around Thanksgiving, so I would expect beta 1 to be Feb / March 2018. 


    But, if it's delayed further, thats fine with me as long as the end result is good :P
    Everything CSE wants to have in the game at the start of Beta 1 is outlined on their Beta 1 features list user story cards on their web site. Huge chunks of the game aren't included on that list such as 21 of the 30 combat classes, the 3 realm specific crafter classes, The Depths, the bounty system, the engraving system, moving and connecting islands, etc. Beta 1 doesn't really come close to being a MVP of the launch version of CU imho. What we'll get at the start of Beta 1 or even the end of Beta 1 isn't something CSE could justify charging a monthly sub for.

    I would really be surprised if Beta 1 alone lasts less than 6 months. Keep in mind Beta 1 was estimated to last 4 months during KS and those original KS estimates have proven to be wildly optimistic.

    My view right now is that the game is likely to launch in the 2nd half of 2019. I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong and have it launch in 2018 or the first half of 2019 of course.
    I didn't realize there was so much of the target content still outstanding, was all of that promised for launch?

    If so, this isn't a traditional beta cycle, I'd argue its more of a late alpha.

    Beta to me is software that's basically feature complete, even if not fully optimized and tested yet.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 240
    edited November 2017
    Kyleran said:
    meddyck said:

    I would be extremely surprised if we're still waiting another 2-3 years for CU. 

    If I'm remembering correctly, Mark wanted his beta tests to be as close to the finished product as possible. Beta 1 will be a minimum viable product (mvp) and he wants to include as many core features as possible. Future betas will introduce tertiary features, but the majority of the game will be complete and playable for Beta 1. 

    So, we may still have a wait for Beta 1, but when it arrives I expect us to move from Beta 1 to release in a short period of time (6-9months). CSE aren't using beta tests to appease the community (i.e. early access...), nor are they using them to generate hype (like the old fashioned open betas a few weeks before launch). CSE are using the beta tests to actually test their game, and you can't test the game if the game isn't there!


    My expectation is still for a 2018 release, probably timed around Thanksgiving, so I would expect beta 1 to be Feb / March 2018. 


    But, if it's delayed further, thats fine with me as long as the end result is good :P
    Everything CSE wants to have in the game at the start of Beta 1 is outlined on their Beta 1 features list user story cards on their web site. Huge chunks of the game aren't included on that list such as 21 of the 30 combat classes, the 3 realm specific crafter classes, The Depths, the bounty system, the engraving system, moving and connecting islands, etc. Beta 1 doesn't really come close to being a MVP of the launch version of CU imho. What we'll get at the start of Beta 1 or even the end of Beta 1 isn't something CSE could justify charging a monthly sub for.

    I would really be surprised if Beta 1 alone lasts less than 6 months. Keep in mind Beta 1 was estimated to last 4 months during KS and those original KS estimates have proven to be wildly optimistic.

    My view right now is that the game is likely to launch in the 2nd half of 2019. I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong and have it launch in 2018 or the first half of 2019 of course.
    I didn't realize there was so much of the target content still outstanding, was all of that promised for launch?

    If so, this isn't a traditional beta cycle, I'd argue its more of a late alpha.

    Beta to me is software that's basically feature complete, even if not fully optimized and tested yet.


    CSE has told us that it would be what they call an "old-school" beta, so if I understood correctly that would be equivalent to Alpha/Pre-Alpha in today's terms. On top of the features Meddick pointed out, there are still a lot of other things to create before launch. Just getting all the progression stuff (with the rewards, daily reports, the active progression based on players' actions, etc.) is going to take a long time I believe, plus the moving islands, which I think they want for launch too, with the stabilizers and players' controlled movement is going to require a significant amount of engineering I guess. Creating all the animals, monsters, their animations/abilities/VFX/sounds/AI behaviors take time too. The Veilstorms (not sure if planned for launch) and their impact on the world is another thing pretty complex to set up. Creating the cities (structures, objects, NPCs) and starting areas, the different PoPs and the other biomes.
    meddyck
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Kyleran said:
    meddyck said:

    I would be extremely surprised if we're still waiting another 2-3 years for CU. 

    If I'm remembering correctly, Mark wanted his beta tests to be as close to the finished product as possible. Beta 1 will be a minimum viable product (mvp) and he wants to include as many core features as possible. Future betas will introduce tertiary features, but the majority of the game will be complete and playable for Beta 1. 

    So, we may still have a wait for Beta 1, but when it arrives I expect us to move from Beta 1 to release in a short period of time (6-9months). CSE aren't using beta tests to appease the community (i.e. early access...), nor are they using them to generate hype (like the old fashioned open betas a few weeks before launch). CSE are using the beta tests to actually test their game, and you can't test the game if the game isn't there!


    My expectation is still for a 2018 release, probably timed around Thanksgiving, so I would expect beta 1 to be Feb / March 2018. 


    But, if it's delayed further, thats fine with me as long as the end result is good :P
    Everything CSE wants to have in the game at the start of Beta 1 is outlined on their Beta 1 features list user story cards on their web site. Huge chunks of the game aren't included on that list such as 21 of the 30 combat classes, the 3 realm specific crafter classes, The Depths, the bounty system, the engraving system, moving and connecting islands, etc. Beta 1 doesn't really come close to being a MVP of the launch version of CU imho. What we'll get at the start of Beta 1 or even the end of Beta 1 isn't something CSE could justify charging a monthly sub for.

    I would really be surprised if Beta 1 alone lasts less than 6 months. Keep in mind Beta 1 was estimated to last 4 months during KS and those original KS estimates have proven to be wildly optimistic.

    My view right now is that the game is likely to launch in the 2nd half of 2019. I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong and have it launch in 2018 or the first half of 2019 of course.
    I didn't realize there was so much of the target content still outstanding, was all of that promised for launch?

    If so, this isn't a traditional beta cycle, I'd argue its more of a late alpha.

    Beta to me is software that's basically feature complete, even if not fully optimized and tested yet.


    CSE has told us that it would be what they call an "old-school" beta, so if I understood correctly that would be equivalent to Alpha (or Pre-Alpha) in today's terms. On top of the features Meddick pointed out, there are still a lot of other things to create before launch. Just getting all the progression stuff (with the rewards, daily reports, the active progression based on players' actions, etc.) is going to take a long time I believe, plus the moving islands, which I think they want for launch too, with the stabilizers and players' controlled movement is going to require a significant amount of engineering I guess. Creating all the animals, monsters, their animations/abilities/VFX/sounds/AI behaviors take time too. The Veilstorms (not sure if planned for launch) and their impact on the world is another thing pretty complex to set up. And there are probably dozens of this kind of things that were promised for launch they haven't started working on afaik.
    Looking forward to trying it all out ... in 2022.
    Kyleranmeddyck
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 240
    Kyleran said:
    meddyck said:

    I would be extremely surprised if we're still waiting another 2-3 years for CU. 

    If I'm remembering correctly, Mark wanted his beta tests to be as close to the finished product as possible. Beta 1 will be a minimum viable product (mvp) and he wants to include as many core features as possible. Future betas will introduce tertiary features, but the majority of the game will be complete and playable for Beta 1. 

    So, we may still have a wait for Beta 1, but when it arrives I expect us to move from Beta 1 to release in a short period of time (6-9months). CSE aren't using beta tests to appease the community (i.e. early access...), nor are they using them to generate hype (like the old fashioned open betas a few weeks before launch). CSE are using the beta tests to actually test their game, and you can't test the game if the game isn't there!


    My expectation is still for a 2018 release, probably timed around Thanksgiving, so I would expect beta 1 to be Feb / March 2018. 


    But, if it's delayed further, thats fine with me as long as the end result is good :P
    Everything CSE wants to have in the game at the start of Beta 1 is outlined on their Beta 1 features list user story cards on their web site. Huge chunks of the game aren't included on that list such as 21 of the 30 combat classes, the 3 realm specific crafter classes, The Depths, the bounty system, the engraving system, moving and connecting islands, etc. Beta 1 doesn't really come close to being a MVP of the launch version of CU imho. What we'll get at the start of Beta 1 or even the end of Beta 1 isn't something CSE could justify charging a monthly sub for.

    I would really be surprised if Beta 1 alone lasts less than 6 months. Keep in mind Beta 1 was estimated to last 4 months during KS and those original KS estimates have proven to be wildly optimistic.

    My view right now is that the game is likely to launch in the 2nd half of 2019. I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong and have it launch in 2018 or the first half of 2019 of course.
    I didn't realize there was so much of the target content still outstanding, was all of that promised for launch?

    If so, this isn't a traditional beta cycle, I'd argue its more of a late alpha.

    Beta to me is software that's basically feature complete, even if not fully optimized and tested yet.


    CSE has told us that it would be what they call an "old-school" beta, so if I understood correctly that would be equivalent to Alpha (or Pre-Alpha) in today's terms. On top of the features Meddick pointed out, there are still a lot of other things to create before launch. Just getting all the progression stuff (with the rewards, daily reports, the active progression based on players' actions, etc.) is going to take a long time I believe, plus the moving islands, which I think they want for launch too, with the stabilizers and players' controlled movement is going to require a significant amount of engineering I guess. Creating all the animals, monsters, their animations/abilities/VFX/sounds/AI behaviors take time too. The Veilstorms (not sure if planned for launch) and their impact on the world is another thing pretty complex to set up. And there are probably dozens of this kind of things that were promised for launch they haven't started working on afaik.
    Looking forward to trying it all out ... in 2022.
    During Beta we should already be able to "play" the game with many systems in place, and it will most likely be already fun. They've been working on the siege scenario, for example, and most of the stuff seems ready or almost (structure destruction, projectiles, siege weapons, maps/environment, etc.). But releasing the full game is still going to take a while I believe.
    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,509
    Kyleran said:
    meddyck said:

    I would be extremely surprised if we're still waiting another 2-3 years for CU. 

    If I'm remembering correctly, Mark wanted his beta tests to be as close to the finished product as possible. Beta 1 will be a minimum viable product (mvp) and he wants to include as many core features as possible. Future betas will introduce tertiary features, but the majority of the game will be complete and playable for Beta 1. 

    So, we may still have a wait for Beta 1, but when it arrives I expect us to move from Beta 1 to release in a short period of time (6-9months). CSE aren't using beta tests to appease the community (i.e. early access...), nor are they using them to generate hype (like the old fashioned open betas a few weeks before launch). CSE are using the beta tests to actually test their game, and you can't test the game if the game isn't there!


    My expectation is still for a 2018 release, probably timed around Thanksgiving, so I would expect beta 1 to be Feb / March 2018. 


    But, if it's delayed further, thats fine with me as long as the end result is good :P
    Everything CSE wants to have in the game at the start of Beta 1 is outlined on their Beta 1 features list user story cards on their web site. Huge chunks of the game aren't included on that list such as 21 of the 30 combat classes, the 3 realm specific crafter classes, The Depths, the bounty system, the engraving system, moving and connecting islands, etc. Beta 1 doesn't really come close to being a MVP of the launch version of CU imho. What we'll get at the start of Beta 1 or even the end of Beta 1 isn't something CSE could justify charging a monthly sub for.

    I would really be surprised if Beta 1 alone lasts less than 6 months. Keep in mind Beta 1 was estimated to last 4 months during KS and those original KS estimates have proven to be wildly optimistic.

    My view right now is that the game is likely to launch in the 2nd half of 2019. I'd be overjoyed to be proven wrong and have it launch in 2018 or the first half of 2019 of course.
    I didn't realize there was so much of the target content still outstanding, was all of that promised for launch?

    If so, this isn't a traditional beta cycle, I'd argue its more of a late alpha.

    Beta to me is software that's basically feature complete, even if not fully optimized and tested yet.


    CSE has told us that it would be what they call an "old-school" beta, so if I understood correctly that would be equivalent to Alpha (or Pre-Alpha) in today's terms. On top of the features Meddick pointed out, there are still a lot of other things to create before launch. Just getting all the progression stuff (with the rewards, daily reports, the active progression based on players' actions, etc.) is going to take a long time I believe, plus the moving islands, which I think they want for launch too, with the stabilizers and players' controlled movement is going to require a significant amount of engineering I guess. Creating all the animals, monsters, their animations/abilities/VFX/sounds/AI behaviors take time too. The Veilstorms (not sure if planned for launch) and their impact on the world is another thing pretty complex to set up. And there are probably dozens of this kind of things that were promised for launch they haven't started working on afaik.
    Looking forward to trying it all out ... in 2022.
    During Beta we should already be able to "play" the game with many systems in place, and it will most likely be already fun. They've been working on the siege scenario, for example, and most of the stuff seems ready or almost (structure destruction, projectiles, siege weapons, maps/environment, etc.). But releasing the full game is still going to take a while I believe.
    Unfortunately I don't play games to have some "fun," I prefer to wait until they are "done."

    Plus 6 months to a year post launch.

    So 2023 for me?  Great, I might be retired by then.
    SedrynTyros

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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