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Star Citizen 3.0 - Refusing Refunds

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  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Eldurian said:

    Yes it's the multiplayer matchmaking I consider fairly well done at this point. Once you get past the fact that you actually have to train to get good at it, and can't run it effectively on a potato.

    To compare it to Chris Robert's last game (Freelancer) which was  considered insanely fun by me and thousands of other people they had:

    -The same few missions you could run over and over and over
    -Trading with static goods sold and bought at static prices on different stations.
    -Mining (Not very profitable)
    -NPC Factions you could have Reputations With
    -Open World with PvP on small servers (50 was average 250 was the largest)

    The last one of which was what made it such an enduring and beloved game. SC currently has:

    -The same few missions you can run over and over and over
    -Arena PvP (Space and Infantry)
    -Singleplayer solo racing and Multiplayer racing
    -Open World with PvP on small instances (PTU)

    Even pre 3.0 we're getting very close to having a lot of the content in SC that was in Freelancer (A game I still consider a masterpiece). Mind you the infantry portion is very rough but that didn't even exist in freelancer. Multi-man ships didn't exist in Freelancer. 3.0 should bring us very close to what Freelancer was with a lot of additional content it never had.



    Glad you are enjoying it.  I am a bit different, I prefer the trading/exploring part of games and sadly it doesnt look like 3.0 has much of that in it other than looking for wrecks on moons.  Guess I will be waiting a while longer to enjoy things.
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,701
    rodarin said:
    Again revising history. Roberts said they could do it in 2 or 3 or whatever. Its been 6 as of now
    2 when the project started. Which has been revised after it was so successful that the scope of the game was massively increased. You are comparing apples and bananas. Again.

    6 is wrong. That would be Oct 2011.  Its 5. CIG has been founded in April 2012. But you knew that already. It has only been discussed around 20 times so far here on this forum.


    Have fun
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,701
    Kefo said:
    @Eldurian ;

    Chris Roberts might have thought up freelancer but it was Microsoft who made it what it is when it released. The only credit CR should have for that game besides thinking up the idea is running the project into the ground. So if you want to thank someone thank a big soulless company for making a game you found to be insanely fun.
    You mean it was Microsoft that gave the money to finish it, cut 70 % of the features and kick it out the door to spice up some quarterly investors report.


    Have fun
    GdemamiEldurianExcession
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Erillion said:


    6 is wrong. That would be Oct 2011.  Its 5. CIG has been founded in April 2012. But you knew that already. It has only been discussed around 20 times so far here on this forum.


    It continues to be discussed because you brush off interviews and the direct quote from Chris's business partner Ortwin who all claim it was started in 2011 wiht your only defense being some words on the CIG website.  Just because something appears on the CIG website does not mean it is true.  I honestly dont see what the issue is with you and this date of creation.  You are still going to have to defend the 6 year argument next year and really 5, 6 or 7 years whats the big deal, we are all going to be waiting a lot longer than this for the finished game.
    Excession
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 3,880
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    @Eldurian ;

    Chris Roberts might have thought up freelancer but it was Microsoft who made it what it is when it released. The only credit CR should have for that game besides thinking up the idea is running the project into the ground. So if you want to thank someone thank a big soulless company for making a game you found to be insanely fun.
    You mean it was Microsoft that gave the money to finish it, cut 70 % of the features and kick it out the door to spice up some quarterly investors report.


    Have fun
    You mean Microsoft booted CR out cause he's a idiot, pump money and time into it for an additional 3 years after cutting out all the unrealistic crap CR dreamed up. But yeah Microsoft is evil for "spicing up a quarterly report" 3 years after the fact.




    Excession
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,701
    Kefo said:
    You mean Microsoft booted CR out cause he's a idiot, pump money and time into it for an additional 3 years after cutting out all the unrealistic crap CR dreamed up. But yeah Microsoft is evil for "spicing up a quarterly report" 3 years after the fact.
    Funny that Microsoft got him back into the project as consultant ASAP.

    Maybe not an idiot after all ;-)


    Have fun
    EldurianExcession
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,701
    >>> because you brush off interviews >>>

    As we discussed many times before .. i do not brush off these interviews. I point out that what you call a quote from Ortwin or Chris are in fact the words of the author of the article, NOT direct quotes from Ortwin or Chris. And some of these authors misinterpret things. As can be shown with a fact check. Which some of them did not do.

    And Chris PERSONALLY has worked on the SC project for a long time. No doubt about that. Most likely ever since the end of the Freelancer project. But WITH A TEAM he worked on it since April 2012. NOT 2011.

    But you already knew that.

    This discussion is like a broken record ... always repeats itself.


    Have fun
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 3,880
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    You mean Microsoft booted CR out cause he's a idiot, pump money and time into it for an additional 3 years after cutting out all the unrealistic crap CR dreamed up. But yeah Microsoft is evil for "spicing up a quarterly report" 3 years after the fact.
    Funny that Microsoft got him back into the project as consultant ASAP.

    Maybe not an idiot after all ;-)


    Have fun
    Lol yeah they bought him out and kept him on "as a consultant" and then proceeded to gut the game of everything that was a stupid idea or wouldn't work or was a waste of resources which sounds like they really listened to him
    Excession
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451
    edited October 2017
    Erillion said:
    rodarin said:
    Again revising history. Roberts said they could do it in 2 or 3 or whatever. Its been 6 as of now
    2 when the project started. Which has been revised after it was so successful that the scope of the game was massively increased. You are comparing apples and bananas. Again.

    6 is wrong. That would be Oct 2011.  Its 5. CIG has been founded in April 2012. But you knew that already. It has only been discussed around 20 times so far here on this forum.


    Have fun
    yeah and that is 5 years BUT he also said (also was written down somewhere)during that little speech he had been working on SC for about a year.....


    https://web.archive.org/web/20170320041806/http://themittani.com/features/exclusive-interview-star-citizens-chris-roberts


    Also good idea for people to click that link and read where the direct question of:
    You have stated that you expect to have an Alpha up and going in about 12 months, with a beta roughly 10 months after that and then launch. For a game of this size and scope, do you think you can really be done in the next two years? was asked and answered....


  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    You mean Microsoft booted CR out cause he's a idiot, pump money and time into it for an additional 3 years after cutting out all the unrealistic crap CR dreamed up. But yeah Microsoft is evil for "spicing up a quarterly report" 3 years after the fact.
    Funny that Microsoft got him back into the project as consultant ASAP.

    Maybe not an idiot after all ;-)


    Have fun
    Lol yeah they bought him out and kept him on "as a consultant" and then proceeded to gut the game of everything that was a stupid idea or wouldn't work or was a waste of resources which sounds like they really listened to him
    The fact that you give Microsoft all the credit for everything related to Freelancer when CR was the original visionary behind it shows you are the equal but opposite of a fanboy when it comes to Chris Roberts.

    Chris Roberts made something that was awesome, but it was a bit too ambitious for the funding available to him, so they had to reign in his vision. And it was still awesome.

    The fact is that if Star Citizen starts falling short of it's original vision (which it very well might) I highly doubt they are going to just trash all the assets and work that has been done and say "Well, it's been nice but project over!" They'll probably reign the original vision back in a bit and still deliver something awesome.

    And really, like I said, from 3.0 I don't think they have much father to go to make a game at least as good as Freelancer. Really just clean it up a bit and add an economy and you're good to go on that front.
    GdemamiExcession
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451
    Eldurian said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    You mean Microsoft booted CR out cause he's a idiot, pump money and time into it for an additional 3 years after cutting out all the unrealistic crap CR dreamed up. But yeah Microsoft is evil for "spicing up a quarterly report" 3 years after the fact.
    Funny that Microsoft got him back into the project as consultant ASAP.

    Maybe not an idiot after all ;-)


    Have fun
    Lol yeah they bought him out and kept him on "as a consultant" and then proceeded to gut the game of everything that was a stupid idea or wouldn't work or was a waste of resources which sounds like they really listened to him
    The fact that you give Microsoft all the credit for everything related to Freelancer when CR was the original visionary behind it shows you are the equal but opposite of a fanboy when it comes to Chris Roberts.

    Chris Roberts made something that was awesome, but it was a bit too ambitious for the funding available to him, so they had to reign in his vision. And it was still awesome.

    The fact is that if Star Citizen starts falling short of it's original vision (which it very well might) I highly doubt they are going to just trash all the assets and work that has been done and say "Well, it's been nice but project over!" They'll probably reign the original vision back in a bit and still deliver something awesome.

    And really, like I said, from 3.0 I don't think they have much father to go to make a game at least as good as Freelancer. Really just clean it up a bit and add an economy and you're good to go on that front.
    LOL youre like every fanboy that ever existed. Its EASY EASY EASY to dream this shit up, its a completely different reality in actually making it happen. Roberts has never ever ever been able to make it happen, and every time he has had a 'vision' it has gone awry (to be as kind as possible). 

    I have said it before every person posting on this forum could dream up the 'perfect' MMO/game. Problem is actually MAKING it.

    Thats the problem with this new generation they never actually had to live in reality.
    Arglebargle
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,839
    edited October 2017
    rodarin said:
    I've never even heard of a game company giving a refund by check before.  Let alone having trouble cashing it.  That's strange.

    It looks bad because it feeds the argument of running short on cash and doing whatever they can to keep it.

    If it's true.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    I seriously want this game to either come out or die just so we can stop having to sift through the constant unending whinging about it.  I've never seen something that causes such ridiculous levels of knee jerk emotional reactions in people in my life.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 3,880
    Eldurian said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    You mean Microsoft booted CR out cause he's a idiot, pump money and time into it for an additional 3 years after cutting out all the unrealistic crap CR dreamed up. But yeah Microsoft is evil for "spicing up a quarterly report" 3 years after the fact.
    Funny that Microsoft got him back into the project as consultant ASAP.

    Maybe not an idiot after all ;-)


    Have fun
    Lol yeah they bought him out and kept him on "as a consultant" and then proceeded to gut the game of everything that was a stupid idea or wouldn't work or was a waste of resources which sounds like they really listened to him
    The fact that you give Microsoft all the credit for everything related to Freelancer when CR was the original visionary behind it shows you are the equal but opposite of a fanboy when it comes to Chris Roberts.

    Chris Roberts made something that was awesome, but it was a bit too ambitious for the funding available to him, so they had to reign in his vision. And it was still awesome.

    The fact is that if Star Citizen starts falling short of it's original vision (which it very well might) I highly doubt they are going to just trash all the assets and work that has been done and say "Well, it's been nice but project over!" They'll probably reign the original vision back in a bit and still deliver something awesome.

    And really, like I said, from 3.0 I don't think they have much father to go to make a game at least as good as Freelancer. Really just clean it up a bit and add an economy and you're good to go on that front.
    See my post a few up from the one you quoted where I said he gets the credit for thinking it up but nice try.

    Chris Roberts ran out of cash because he's terrible at managing projects and he had multiple projects going at once so he stretched the financials too thin....sounds familiar right?
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451
    rodarin said:
    I've never even heard of a game company giving a refund by check before.  Let alone having trouble cashing it.  That's strange.

    It looks bad because it feeds the argument of running short on cash and doing whatever they can to keep it.

    If it's true.
    anyone who has gambled in an online sports book knows what it means.....
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited October 2017
    rodarin said:

    I have said it before every person posting on this forum could dream up the 'perfect' MMO/game. Problem is actually MAKING it.
    Yeah no. I've debated game features long enough to know that there are very few people who actually have great visions when it comes to MMOs. Most of the game ideas I hear are utter trash and sound horrible. I doubt even the person to come up with them would play them if they were made into reality. You really know nothing about designing MMOs if you think it's someone everyone is qualified to do. There is an incredible amount of complexity to all the features and how they all fit together, and more importantly how players will use those features, that all needs to be considered and taken into account.

    If everyone had the capacity to make a great MMO we would have one already.

    And honestly it isn't that I would change nothing about CR's vision. If I was put in-charge of Star Citizen day one I'd be like "Yeah, your focus on realism is really limiting your audience. Make the space combat more like Freelancer and the ground combat more like Halo. Simple to learn, difficult to master."

    The guy consistently puts out games that are fun though. So despite not agreeing with his every move I do see him on the general path toward a game I'll personally be able to have a lot of fun with.
    Gdemami
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451
    Eldurian said:
    rodarin said:

    I have said it before every person posting on this forum could dream up the 'perfect' MMO/game. Problem is actually MAKING it.
    Yeah no. I've debated game features long enough to know that there are very few people who actually have great visions when it comes to MMOs. Most of the game ideas I hear are utter trash and sound horrible. I doubt even the person to come up with them would play them if they were made into reality. You really know nothing about designing MMOs if you think it's someone everyone is qualified to do. There is an incredible amount of complexity to all the features and how they all fit together, and more importantly how players will use those features, that all needs to be considered and taken into account.

    If everyone had the capacity to make a great MMO we would have one already.

    And honestly it isn't that I would change nothing about CR's vision. If I was put in-charge of Star Citizen day one I'd be like "Yeah, your focus on realism is really limiting your audience. Make the space combat more like Freelancer and the ground combat more like Halo. Simple to learn, difficult to master."

    The guy consistently puts out games that are fun though. So despite not agreeing with his every move I do see him on the general path toward a game I'll personally be able to have a lot of fun with.
    LMAO you guys are so ridiculous.
    ScotchUp
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    I mean you are the one being ridiculous if you think everyone has the ideas for a perfect MMO. I doubt whatever you have rattling around in there would even lead to a decent MMO.
    Gdemami
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451
    Eldurian said:
    I mean you are the one being ridiculous if you think everyone has the ideas for a perfect MMO. I doubt whatever you have rattling around in there would even lead to a decent MMO.
    you said: The guy consistently puts out games that are fun though. 

    That statement if it is referring to Chris Roberts is ridiculous because HE HIMSELF has NEVER put out ANY game. In fact the past half day has been rehashing how he lost control of anything anyone ever gave him control over.

    Not to mention that after he was removed he wasnt heard from for about 15 years until he came up with this scheme. So that also negates the whole 'consistently' part of your statement.

    Chris Roberts in every sense of the word is a failure in regards to being a video game DEVELOPER. If the numbers are true though,  he is a hall of fame money maker. But those things are really not related right now. Because we have seen even with all the money he has been (allegedly) given he still isnt delivering a decent product. Because 3.0 has been out for almost a week and there are ZERO hype topics on it. That in and of itself should tell everyone everything they need to know. Because everyone associated with this debacle has been all in with this update and if it were anywhere near as good as it was proclaimed there would be people breaking the NDA all over the internet.

    Shit if it were that good CiG would 'leak' gameplay footage themselves. I mean since theyre the kings (allegedly) of 'fundraising' nothing is a better fundraiser than an actual working product.


    Gdemami
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    rodarin said:

    Because 3.0 has been out for almost a week and there are ZERO hype topics on it. That in and of itself should tell everyone everything they need to know. Because everyone associated with this debacle has been all in with this update and if it were anywhere near as good as it was proclaimed there would be people breaking the NDA all over the internet.
    Lol. Ok so people not breaking NDA = the game is crap. That's a new take for sure.
    Erillion
  • ZandogZandog Member UncommonPosts: 97
    edited October 2017
    Hrimnir said:
    I seriously want this game to either come out or die just so we can stop having to sift through the constant unending whinging about it.  I've never seen something that causes such ridiculous levels of knee jerk emotional reactions in people in my life.
    Every time Goonsquad/SA/DS post salt on Star Citizen, I spend more money on it. Every time a mentally disturbed former backer or Elite CMDR toxic emo comments, I spend more money on it. Every time they refuse to answer why they spend so much time arguing about a game they don't even like, I spend more money on it. Want to watch the world burn because you can't have your way? You got whats coming to you.
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451
    Eldurian said:
    rodarin said:

    Because 3.0 has been out for almost a week and there are ZERO hype topics on it. That in and of itself should tell everyone everything they need to know. Because everyone associated with this debacle has been all in with this update and if it were anywhere near as good as it was proclaimed there would be people breaking the NDA all over the internet.
    Lol. Ok so people not breaking NDA = the game is crap. That's a new take for sure.
    really? When has ANY game NOT had the NDA broken?

    Its ironic talking about an NDA with the most open developed game anyway but the fact they created a watermark system to identify people in the super secret test group says a lot as well.

    One final point on this. One guy put out 6 videos of bugs. There hasnt been a single positive leak yet. In a game where people fight tooth and nail for one side or the other you would think a single white knight tester would figure out a way to put up a video to show how awesome it is.

    Even smarty smart forced a guy to 'leak' star marine (or what they claimed was SM) during one of these super secret test phases.

    So yeah leaks happen when they serve the purpose of the leaker. Like I said if it were as great as it supposed to be or even not laughably horrible there would be leaks and videos all over the net by now.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,701
    Or the Evocati are doing what they volunteered for .... bug hunting and playtesting. Instead of begging for online clicks and short-lived e-peen fame by releasing leaked data. 


    Have fun 
    ohgodtherats707Eldurian
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 805
    Perhaps they were selective enough to choose testers that pay more than lip service to what they agree to.
    Erillion
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