Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Star Citizen 3.0 - Refusing Refunds

17891012

Comments

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    Excession said:
    But you are missing something.

    Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process. "  
    So it was not just

    Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person)

    And you were missing what i wrote:

    "....Based on the facts (CIG/RSI homepage, founding date, April 2012)  Chris and Ortwin had a small group of people working on Star Citizen beginning in April 2012. Which puts the official starting date of the Star Citizen project at April 2012. That was the date when an idea became a project. "

    The small group worked on it since April 2012.


    Have fun
  • ExcessionExcession Member RarePosts: 709
    edited October 2017
    Erillion said:
    Excession said:
    But you are missing something.

    Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process. "  
    So it was not just

    Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person)

    And you were missing what i wrote:

    "....Based on the facts (CIG/RSI homepage, founding date, April 2012)  Chris and Ortwin had a small group of people working on Star Citizen beginning in April 2012. Which puts the official starting date of the Star Citizen project at April 2012. That was the date when an idea became a project. "

    The small group worked on it since April 2012.


    Have fun
    You can write what you like to spin what Ortwin said, makes no difference to what he actually said though.

    Ortwin said:

    "Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process"

    See those words? "this process".

    What process is he talking about? well, that is simple:

    "Chris spent over a year building the game's backstory and creating a prototype in CryEngine that could be presented at campaign launch"

    That is the process he means, the "over a year" building a backstory and prototype.

    So, by Ortwin's words, Chris and a small group spent over a year working on what was shown at the campaign launch.

    What campaign launch? again, that is simple, the Kickstarter campaign.

    When did the Kickstarter Campaign launch? again, simple, it was 2012.

    So, according to Ortwin, they spent over a year working on SC, they being Chris and a small group, which put's the start of Dev time in 2011.
    SlyLoKKefo

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    Excession said:
    Erillion said:
    Excession said:
    But you are missing something.

    Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process. "  
    So it was not just

    Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person)

    And you were missing what i wrote:

    "....Based on the facts (CIG/RSI homepage, founding date, April 2012)  Chris and Ortwin had a small group of people working on Star Citizen beginning in April 2012. Which puts the official starting date of the Star Citizen project at April 2012. That was the date when an idea became a project. "

    The small group worked on it since April 2012.


    Have fun
    You can write what you like to spin what Ortwin said, makes no difference to what he actually said though.

    Ortwin said:

    "Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process"

    See those words? "this process".

    What process is he talking about? well, that is simple:

    "Chris spent over a year building the game's backstory and creating a prototype in CryEngine that could be presented at campaign launch"

    That is the process he means, the "over a year" building a backstory and prototype.

    So, by Ortwin's words, Chris and a small group spent over a year working on what was shown at the campaign launch.

    What campaign launch? again, that is simple, the Kickstarter campaign.

    When did the Kickstarter Campaign launch? again, simple, it was 2012.

    So, according to Ortwin, they spent over a year working on SC, they being Chris and a small group, which put's the start of Dev time in 2011.
    You overlook the operative word "assist".

    So they were NOT there for the whole time.

    Combine it with a known fact: April 2012.

    Thank me later.



    Have fun

    Orinori
  • ExcessionExcession Member RarePosts: 709
    Erillion said:
    Excession said:
    Erillion said:
    Excession said:
    But you are missing something.

    Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process. "  
    So it was not just

    Chris PERSONALLY (he, the single person)

    And you were missing what i wrote:

    "....Based on the facts (CIG/RSI homepage, founding date, April 2012)  Chris and Ortwin had a small group of people working on Star Citizen beginning in April 2012. Which puts the official starting date of the Star Citizen project at April 2012. That was the date when an idea became a project. "

    The small group worked on it since April 2012.


    Have fun
    You can write what you like to spin what Ortwin said, makes no difference to what he actually said though.

    Ortwin said:

    "Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process"

    See those words? "this process".

    What process is he talking about? well, that is simple:

    "Chris spent over a year building the game's backstory and creating a prototype in CryEngine that could be presented at campaign launch"

    That is the process he means, the "over a year" building a backstory and prototype.

    So, by Ortwin's words, Chris and a small group spent over a year working on what was shown at the campaign launch.

    What campaign launch? again, that is simple, the Kickstarter campaign.

    When did the Kickstarter Campaign launch? again, simple, it was 2012.

    So, according to Ortwin, they spent over a year working on SC, they being Chris and a small group, which put's the start of Dev time in 2011.
    You overlook the operative word "assist".

    So they were NOT there for the whole time.

    Combine it with a known fact: April 2012.

    Thank me later.



    Have fun

    So, according to you, with your "known fact", Ortwin is lying?

    How did I overlook assist? I put that word in did I not? 

    Assist: Help (someone), typically by doing a share of the work.

    So how does the word assist make a difference to anything Ortwin said, or anything that I typed?

    Simple, it makes no difference.

    Keep trying that spin though.

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    Ortwin is not lying.

    We are interpreting his words in a different way. My interpretation takes into account both the interview and the website fact.

    And you still have not explained why the official founding date on the website is April 2012.



    Have fun

  • ExcessionExcession Member RarePosts: 709
    Erillion said:
    Ortwin is not lying.

    We are interpreting his words in a different way. My interpretation takes into account both the interview and the website fact.

    And you still have not explained why the official founding date on the website is April 2012.



    Have fun

    Fact: Kickstarter campaign was 2012.
    Fact: Ortwin said chris and small group worked for over a year before that campaign started.

    You state Ortwin is not lying, so you cannot deny those facts.

    April 2012 does not change those facts.

    You claiming to interpret his words a different way does not change those facts.

    Those facts mean dev time started in 2011.

    Nothing else is relevant.


    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,852
     I am not going through 12 pages to see if already mentioned so.
    Something caught my eye,the hoax refund ordeal.I do not condone FAKE and malicious people trying to lie or pull off some stunt to discredit the team but something did catch my eye that is VERY wrong.

    $15000 completionist package...rolls eyes,passes out,gets back up,shakes head in disbelief.Are you kidding me,how could anyone take this Robert's guy as being legit when he tries to pull off a scam like this?
    The other thing was as of 2015...90...NINETY ships for sale lmao.One can clearly see where most of the effort has gone and that is into supporting the cash shop.Studios can make an entire game in the time it takes to make 90 different ships and that number has surely risen since they need to keep grinding more money out of retarded spenders.

    I know if i had a dumbfounded moment and spent 15k on a game,i would choke and feel faint,then most certainly seek out a refund.This is similar to when i spend a lot on TCG;s then realize wtf am i doing.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    edited October 2017
    >>>> Those facts mean dev time started in 2011. >>>>

    Those facts mean that Chris Roberts (he, personally, the single person) started to work in 2011 (or earlier).

    Then his wife and lawyer joined. They founded a company. In April 2012.

    Then a small team assisted him to prepare for crowdfunding.


    We have only been through this 20 times or so. One more time ... why not? Will not be the last time.



    Have fun


    PS:
    And you still dance around the fact that you cannot explain the April 2012 date.
    Kickstarter was Oct-Nov 2012, not in April.
    Shodanas
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,852
    I went through just the upgrades list and man that was a long scrolling list.Some of the items are a 0 cost to upgrade but i saw a boatload of total money in there if one were to want the entire game's content.There was literally thousands of dollars in total content to buy,that is way overdoing the cash shop idea into what i would call down right immoral and wrong,crooked.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    Wizardry said:
    I went through just the upgrades list and man that was a long scrolling list.Some of the items are a 0 cost to upgrade but i saw a boatload of total money in there if one were to want the entire game's content.There was literally thousands of dollars in total content to buy,that is way overdoing the cash shop idea into what i would call down right immoral and wrong,crooked.
    You DO know that you cannot buy those ships after launch for real world money, do you not ?

    Those package prices are only during the crowdfunding campaign and only to support the crowdfunding. Many other crowdfunding campaigns also have some high-price-tag offers in the 10.000 $ range.

    And you can buy ALL these ships in game for in game money only after the game has launched, not spending more than the 54 EURO (or as low as 20 $ early in the campaign) real world money for a basic package.


    Have fun
  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    edited October 2017
    Wizardry said:
    Robert's guy
    scam 
    retarded spenders.
    similar to when i spend a lot on TCG
    I have segregated the parts of the post that seemed relevant and stood out.

    Besides the self ownage, I would like to say that if you don't have 15k to spend on digital pixels then don't. What others do with their money isn't all that much of a concern to you I should hope.

    Star Citizen isn't a scam as can be clearly seen with anyone who has eyes and a brain with a capacity to engage in logic based on the minimum weekly content shown and builds pushed out to backers. Star Citizen needs funds, it also needs ships to fill the game universe, it sells ships to fund the building of the universe. It isn't complicated.
    Excession
  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    Wizardry said:
    cash shop 
    immoral and wrong,crooked.
    I am not much of a fan of cash shops, I prefer subs but then cash shops do generate more cash despite the fact that no one is forcing you to pay for anything by gunpoint. Everything can even be got in game for free, weird huh.
    Excession
  • Moxom914Moxom914 Member RarePosts: 731
    one day, erillion, you will be playing this game instead of spending day after day on forums defending it. keep fighting the good fight.
  • gir243gir243 Member UncommonPosts: 50
    Moxom914 said:
    one day, erillion, you will be playing this game instead of spending day after day on forums defending it. keep fighting the good fight.
    In before "I'm already playing it and it's better than anything else out there!".
    ExcessionMoxom914rodarin
  • ExcessionExcession Member RarePosts: 709
    edited October 2017
    Erillion said:
    >>>> Those facts mean dev time started in 2011. >>>>

    Those facts mean that Chris Roberts (he, personally, the single person) started to work in 2011 (or earlier).

    Then his wife and lawyer joined. They founded a company. In April 2012.

    Then a small team assisted him to prepare for crowdfunding.


    We have only been through this 20 times or so. One more time ... why not? Will not be the last time.



    Have fun


    PS:
    And you still dance around the fact that you cannot explain the April 2012 date.
    Kickstarter was Oct-Nov 2012, not in April.
    More spin.

    Ortwin (who you say is not lying) did not say Chris started in 2011, then they joined him and founded a company in 2012.

    He said:
    "Chris spent over a year building the game's backstory and creating a prototype in CryEngine that could be presented at campaign launch. Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process"

    Where does that statement mention anything you said? it does not, what it does say is that Chris and a small team spent over a year working on SC before the campaign launched. No amount of interpretation or spin on your part can/will change that.

    As for your PS, I never said Kickstarter was in April, I said it was in 2012, you are the one obsessed with April 2012, as I said earlier, it is irrelevant, and I have no reason or need to explain it.

    Since it bothers you so much though, maybe, during that period of over a year before the kickstarter campaign launched, they got to the point where they felt they had enough to launch the website/company, and decided to do so, and it just happened to be in April 2012.

    Whatever, it matters not.

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    edited October 2017
    When was the campaign launch? I am seeing October 18 2012. Is that correct? I doubt he would have employed anyone without setting up a company to get relief on the tax. When was the company set up? April 2012? Looks pretty easy to follow to me. Chris worked on the project then hired some folks just before / around April 2012 to prepare for campaign launch 6 months later in October 2012? Why the drama. 


    Edit, hmm no wait, it seems RSI was founded in 2010 with Ortwin, so I guess that solves it then, development started in 2010 and it took them almost 3 years with a team of writers, designers and engineers (all paid out of his own pocket!) to come up with a kickstarter page and a short video clip. Damn these guys are slow! I wish I could have been there the morning he woke up in 2010 and said completely out of the blue "today I am going to hire a team of designers, engineers and writers for I have a very cunning plan". This seems logical and legit.

    Thank goodness we have this very concise chronology of events left to us by Ortwin, without it we would surely all be lost!
    Post edited by Orinori on
    ErillionExcession
  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 560
    You're still banned on your regular account?
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    gir243 said:
    Moxom914 said:
    one day, erillion, you will be playing this game instead of spending day after day on forums defending it. keep fighting the good fight.
    In before "I'm already playing it and it's better than anything else out there!".
    Thank you. 

    I am already playing it. ;-)

    It is still a buggy Alpha but me and my buddies are having a good time already. 

    Have fun

    @Excession
    Orinori already posted the answer to your other post. If you have a theory, it has to fit all data, not only the data points you selected. And your theory does not offer an explanation for the April 2012 data. Which means your theory is either wrong or incomplete (and needs some modification). 
    Excession
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Wizardry said:
     I am not going through 12 pages to see if already mentioned so.
    Something caught my eye,the hoax refund ordeal.I do not condone FAKE and malicious people trying to lie or pull off some stunt to discredit the team but something did catch my eye that is VERY wrong.

    $15000 completionist package...rolls eyes,passes out,gets back up,shakes head in disbelief.Are you kidding me,how could anyone take this Robert's guy as being legit when he tries to pull off a scam like this?
    The other thing was as of 2015...90...NINETY ships for sale lmao.One can clearly see where most of the effort has gone and that is into supporting the cash shop.Studios can make an entire game in the time it takes to make 90 different ships and that number has surely risen since they need to keep grinding more money out of retarded spenders.

    I know if i had a dumbfounded moment and spent 15k on a game,i would choke and feel faint,then most certainly seek out a refund.This is similar to when i spend a lot on TCG;s then realize wtf am i doing.
    Don't forget that 15k conpletionist package doesn't include all the ships so you would need to shell out more to actually complete your collection.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Excession said:
    Erillion said:
    >>>> Those facts mean dev time started in 2011. >>>>

    Those facts mean that Chris Roberts (he, personally, the single person) started to work in 2011 (or earlier).

    Then his wife and lawyer joined. They founded a company. In April 2012.

    Then a small team assisted him to prepare for crowdfunding.


    We have only been through this 20 times or so. One more time ... why not? Will not be the last time.



    Have fun


    PS:
    And you still dance around the fact that you cannot explain the April 2012 date.
    Kickstarter was Oct-Nov 2012, not in April.
    More spin.

    Ortwin (who you say is not lying) did not say Chris started in 2011, then they joined him and founded a company in 2012.

    He said:
    "Chris spent over a year building the game's backstory and creating a prototype in CryEngine that could be presented at campaign launch. Using our own funds, we engaged a small group of writers, designers, and engineers to assist in this process"

    Where does that statement mention anything you said? it does not, what it does say is that Chris and a small team spent over a year working on SC before the campaign launched. No amount of interpretation or spin on your part can/will change that.

    As for your PS, I never said Kickstarter was in April, I said it was in 2012, you are the one obsessed with April 2012, as I said earlier, it is irrelevant, and I have no reason or need to explain it.

    Since it bothers you so much though, maybe, during that period of over a year before the kickstarter campaign launched, they got to the point where they felt they had enough to launch the website/company, and decided to do so, and it just happened to be in April 2012.

    Whatever, it matters not.
    It's a lost cause. CR could have come out and said I started work on this with 10 other people in 2011 and it would still be spun. 

    If Erillion wants to have this then he can't deny the original due date was nov 2014 like the kickstarter page says. If he's going to use one website date then he has to use another
    Excession
  • ExcessionExcession Member RarePosts: 709
    Erillion said:

    @Excession
    Orinori already posted the answer to your other post. If you have a theory, it has to fit all data, not only the data points you selected. And your theory does not offer an explanation for the April 2012 data. Which means your theory is either wrong or incomplete (and needs some modification). 
    Really? so they started in 2010 then? lol

    I do not have a theory, all I did was post about a statement made by Ortwin, who you claim is not lying by making that statement.

    So it must be true and factual.

    No idea why you keep trying to spin it ;P

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • OrinoriOrinori Member RarePosts: 751
    He isn't spinning anything, Ortwins statement can be correct along with the conclusion that 2012 was the projects official start date. It fits the most likely series of events. 

    To reach the conclusion that CR started paying a team of people for over a year out of his own pocket (1 Million +?) for a kickstarter page and a short video? illogical. 
    ErillionShodanasExcession
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,232
    edited October 2017
    Kefo said:
    It's a lost cause. CR could have come out and said I started work on this with 10 other people in 2011 and it would still be spun. 

    If Erillion wants to have this then he can't deny the original due date was nov 2014 like the kickstarter page says. If he's going to use one website date then he has to use another
    If there are new facts (like Chris Roberts definitely saying he started work with 10 people in 2011) then i would take these new facts and agree that the project started in 2011. But so far he has not said that. So - based on what we know - i consider April 2012 the starting date.

    The Kickstarter page mentions an ESTIMATED delivery date of 2014.  Not a fixed date. But that is NOT the game we have now. This is also a discussion that we had here for about two dozen times ad nauseam.
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cig/star-citizen?lang=de

    The 2014 date was correct for a game with a much smaller scope. And was already obsolete at the end of 2012. But that 2014 date is necroed by some people time and time again, completely ignoring that the scope is far far away from what was announced in October 2012.

    That Chris Roberts was (and is) overly optimistic and CIG estimates have a tendency to be overly optimistic is not something that is contested by me. I agree with that - and have agreed with that in the past. In the last years my estimate for first results (=SQ42 intro mission) was end of 2017. 


    Have fun



    PS:
    SQ42 intro mission ... according to some sources that is a mission where you fight alongside the character played by Gillian Anderson (and talk to the character played by Gary Oldman) .... and which then leads to a situation where you create your character (face etc.) the way you like it. A kind of story based character creation scenario. A BIG CAVEAT here .. that is a rumour .. not fact.

    Shodanas
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,497
    Erillion said:
    SQ42 intro mission ... according to some sources that is a mission where you fight alongside the character played by Gillian Anderson (and talk to the character played by Gary Oldman) .... and which then leads to a situation where you create your character (face etc.) the way you like it. A kind of story based character creation scenario. A BIG CAVEAT here .. that is a rumour .. not fact.


    Hopefully they show some of the intro mission later this year.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,967
    Kefo said:
    Wizardry said:
     I am not going through 12 pages to see if already mentioned so.
    Something caught my eye,the hoax refund ordeal.I do not condone FAKE and malicious people trying to lie or pull off some stunt to discredit the team but something did catch my eye that is VERY wrong.

    $15000 completionist package...rolls eyes,passes out,gets back up,shakes head in disbelief.Are you kidding me,how could anyone take this Robert's guy as being legit when he tries to pull off a scam like this?
    The other thing was as of 2015...90...NINETY ships for sale lmao.One can clearly see where most of the effort has gone and that is into supporting the cash shop.Studios can make an entire game in the time it takes to make 90 different ships and that number has surely risen since they need to keep grinding more money out of retarded spenders.

    I know if i had a dumbfounded moment and spent 15k on a game,i would choke and feel faint,then most certainly seek out a refund.This is similar to when i spend a lot on TCG;s then realize wtf am i doing.
    Don't forget that 15k conpletionist package doesn't include all the ships so you would need to shell out more to actually complete your collection.
    Some guy mentioned he had bought two of those.  Probably for his org.  A lot of people are talking about putting together their 'fleet'.  

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

Sign In or Register to comment.