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Interesting read: Is EverQuest II in a downward spiral?

TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
edited September 2017 in Everquest II
http://massivelyop.com/2017/09/21/everquesting-is-everquest-ii-in-a-downward-spiral/

As I've been saying, ever since SOE turned into Daybreak and owned by an investment company, that it'll only lead to the selling of (or more likely) the complete closure of multiple IPs. A great sign is them pretty much just putting Everquest 2 on life support and milking the players in the cash shop. Sad too, because EQ2 is one of my favorite MMOs and offers tons of content for soloing, group or social activities. It (EQ in general that is) also is one of the first major IPs of the MMO genre.

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Excession
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Comments

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    So, I gave the game a try as a free player. It isn't nearly as busy as it used to be...entire zones just completely empty. Its true what others have said on forums/reddit, the game is focused so much at endgame and barely any new players joining in. On top of that, it takes more grinding than BDO (Black Desert Online) to catch up to the endgame players.

    Sad, since its such a good game/world and well known series. 
    Excession

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 15,896
    DBG has put very little effort into gaming since taking over,there must have been some other reason they took over SOE gaming.Seeing PUBG take over from H1Z1 has to hurt them as well.
    The problems with EQ2 started a long long time ago,bad direction,people making systems that make no sense and cheaper expansions.
    This is not some DBG or SOE problem this is plaguing the entire industry,devs are selling us a lot of crap and justifying it with the excuse of early access or KSr's ,in other words "give us a break,our game is not finished yet".

    Just like Wow,Eq2 was good for that era because they were sort of the pioneers of linear questing games but after playing months,years of that type of design is super boring.As well going the cheaper lazier route SOE began removing some of the player customization and imo food was always done poorly.

    EQ2 is /was right alongside vanguard,so close but still good for gaming 10+ years ago but in 2017.the Wow's and their clones are not good game designs anymore.
    metternick

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Member RarePosts: 3,416
    In my opion Yes, I do not think Day Break Games has put much effort into EQ2.
    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
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  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,440
    ummm  EQ 2 has been in a downward spiral since 2009 .............. this is not news ..
    DMKanopantarolaxieSBFordJemAs666Quizar1973PhryBroomyLonestryder
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,134
    Scorchien said:
    ummm  EQ 2 has been in a downward spiral since 2009 .............. this is not news ..
    Yep.

    Kyleran
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 5,812
    Before SoE was sold by Sony they had 5 "re-organisations" in 6 years. Games were shuttered, studios closed, many hundreds of jobs were shed. None of turn arounds delivered.

    So I don't think the woes of EQ2 should be laid at the feet of CN. Credited for keeping the game open maybe.

    Some costs will probably be shared with EQ1 but when it starts to lose money I would expect it to be closed. So the fact that it is still open probably speaks volumes. Long term though I would expect it to be closed. 
  • GrimulaGrimula Member UncommonPosts: 570
    edited October 2017

    Expansion coming VERY soon for Everquest 2


    Still the best PVE raiding game around , WAY more fun then WoW hahah


    I assume most of you do not play Everquest 2 still , but I do and its a really amazing PVE game


    way more fun then WoW ever was  =) and I played both games for over 10 years


    still raiding 3 days a week in Everquest 2 , quit wow because it turned to Shit

    zero people in my guild Multi box accounts also ...because it is very easy to find people to raid with, meaning there is Enough people playing this game to sustain all the guilds who need raiders


    Maybe you should join the maj'dul server and check out how Packed it is with players,  Always full of friendly people willing to help newbs

    Hariken
  • GrimulaGrimula Member UncommonPosts: 570
    Do companies actually waste money making expansions when there game is in a Downword spiral as you people call it ??
  • Mackaveli44Mackaveli44 Member RarePosts: 509
    edited October 2017
    EQ2 has never held a Large player base  but,  it has held A playerbase for sometime.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, ever since Daybreak took over their collection of games, its all gone to shit, every game of theirs.  Almost as if they've put all their games in maintenance mode and just slowly letting them die off like they did with Vanguard(SoE did this)  And I love the EQ franchise.  Been an avid fan of it since 99 and it's a shame to see what both games have turned into. 
  • Mackaveli44Mackaveli44 Member RarePosts: 509
    Grimula said:
    Do companies actually waste money making expansions when there game is in a Downword spiral as you people call it ??
    I would say no but seeing as how EQ'2 expansions aren't really "expansions" per se, I doubt it took that many resources for them to make new stuff since all the artwork, item looks, etc are all the recycled models from previous tiers, or "expansions".  
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 5,812
    edited October 2017
    Grimula said:
    Do companies actually waste money making expansions when there game is in a Downword spiral as you people call it ??
    One should be under no illusion that DBG is probably only allowed to spend money to make money. CN bought SoE for $X and want to recover those costs - plus the money they gambled on EQN.

    And if they invest in a new expansion they will expect that to see a financial benefit.

    If they spend X and they get back more than X in sales then that is pretty straightforward. 

    However the expansion probably doesn't have to back 100% of its costs right away. Usually expansions act as advertisements though and generate a bump so they will probably count direct revenue (from people buying the expansion) plus any bump in revenue - over and above what they expect if they do nothing - for 6 months, maybe a year.

    Remember a game can still make money even if it is in a downward spiral. Especially if operating costs are cut right back. Which is what CN have done - the biggest drain they put a stop to being EQN development. So whilst the demise of EQN may be lamented the positive is that DBG's profit & loss account no longer has a huge red number in it.

    (How overheads are spread is a minor factor as well.) 

     
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,041
    The Daybreak Games transition has very little to do with this.

    EQ2 always struggled with player numbers. I played here and there since launch. The population was "ok-ish", where you would meet enough people to form a group, but it never felt crowded.

    In 2010 (6 years post-release), when I started to play extensively, we had a guild of around 20-30 daily active users. I joined the SOE Live volunteer team (running GM events). The unannounced events always attracted around 30 people. The population wasn't record-breaking, but it was fairly alive.

    In 2011, Destiny of Velious came out. Whoever was in charge of that expansion needs a medal. The new player population spiked substantially. Hundreds of people were returning to EQ2 and actually staying for a decent amount of time. Raiding picked up heavily, to the point where you'd have many groups doing raids at a time - something that was not common in the months before. The online player numbers reached mindboggling heights, considering the so-so state of the game beforehand.

    In 2012, the SOE team reorganised. I'm not sure what exactly happened internally, but the people assigned to work on the next expansion were quite different. I am guessing the people who did Velious were moved to work on EQ Next, in light of the success. The following EQ2 expansion was nowhere near as amazing as Velious. New people weren't arriving and retention of old players wasn't great. The people attending the GM events dropped rapidly and our SOE contact (our Live volunteer team had an SOE employee work with us 1-2 days a week) was assigned elsewhere. I left the volunteer team around that time, as the whole support structure was falling apart for some reason (there must have been a turmoil going on in the background at SOE).

    This was even worse with the following expansion and in 2014, the most popular server was pretty much dead. My estimates are that the population had to be somewhere in the hundreds at best.

    The Daybreak transition happened in 2015, at which point EQ2 was already in a very poor spot.

    To reverse the trend, you'd have to create a pretty substantial overhaul, akin to Velious. This would need a decently sized team. I don't think anyone will justify that investment, given the age of the engine and the non-existant playerbase. It makes much more sense to reboot the franchise somehow - which they don't seem to be doing either.
    ExcessionPhrymetternick
  • HarikenHariken Member RarePosts: 2,222
    Grimula said:

    Expansion coming VERY soon for Everquest 2


    Still the best PVE raiding game around , WAY more fun then WoW hahah


    I assume most of you do not play Everquest 2 still , but I do and its a really amazing PVE game


    way more fun then WoW ever was  =) and I played both games for over 10 years


    still raiding 3 days a week in Everquest 2 , quit wow because it turned to Shit

    zero people in my guild Multi box accounts also ...because it is very easy to find people to raid with, meaning there is Enough people playing this game to sustain all the guilds who need raiders


    Maybe you should join the maj'dul server and check out how Packed it is with players,  Always full of friendly people willing to help newbs

    I have to agree here. Most of these post seem to come from people that don't play the game or haven't in a long time. I still play and have had an account since launch, Its an old game so yeah its not as busy as newer games or wow. The people that still play are older loyal players. Sure daybreak should sell it to a real game company, But they keep putting out more expansions. And yes its hard to recommend this game to new players because it would be to hard for them and not alot of hand holding like new mmo's. 
  • GrimulaGrimula Member UncommonPosts: 570

    still Thousand's of people playing EQ 2 (Regardless of what you people think)

    the Marketplace sells cosmetic items , Nothing you need to buy

    I have over 300  USA dollars worth of marketplace cash from the Years of Free cash every month

    and I have never wanted to spend 1 cent of it in the Shop

    just waiting for 1 day something catches my eye.

    Kyleran
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 5,812
    Grimula said:

    still Thousand's of people playing EQ 2 (Regardless of what you people think)

    <snip>

    Whatever the number is it is enough for DBG (CN) to keep the game going.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,134
    gervaise1 said:
    Grimula said:

    still Thousand's of people playing EQ 2 (Regardless of what you people think)

    <snip>

    Whatever the number is it is enough for DBG (CN) to keep the game going.


    It is - also there's the notion of maintaining EQ brand and not shuttering EQ2 due to negative PR.

    Sometimes companies will keep an under-performing product running because of brand alone.


    laxieSovrathPhryScorchien
  • XodicXodic Member RarePosts: 929
    It's more of a direct face first plunge, than it is a spiral.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,010
    DMKano said:
    gervaise1 said:
    Grimula said:

    still Thousand's of people playing EQ 2 (Regardless of what you people think)

    <snip>

    Whatever the number is it is enough for DBG (CN) to keep the game going.


    It is - also there's the notion of maintaining EQ brand and not shuttering EQ2 due to negative PR.

    Sometimes companies will keep an under-performing product running because of brand alone.


    Could kind of explain why FFXI didn't shut down and is still being "updated" even though the "updates" just consist of stuff being shifted around to make it seem "new." But its something I suppose. Some of the stuff they are doing to XI are pretty scummy to say the least though and desperate. Hate seeing that happen
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,436
    Grimula said:

    still Thousand's of people playing EQ 2 (Regardless of what you people think)

    the Marketplace sells cosmetic items , Nothing you need to buy

    I have over 300  USA dollars worth of marketplace cash from the Years of Free cash every month

    and I have never wanted to spend 1 cent of it in the Shop

    just waiting for 1 day something catches my eye.

    Ooh...thousands....like how many is that?

    50K, 100K?

    Or are you talking about 2 or 3K?

    If the latter you are on the equivalent of the Titanic, it will sink...just a matter of when.


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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Kyleran said:
    Grimula said:

    still Thousand's of people playing EQ 2 (Regardless of what you people think)

    the Marketplace sells cosmetic items , Nothing you need to buy

    I have over 300  USA dollars worth of marketplace cash from the Years of Free cash every month

    and I have never wanted to spend 1 cent of it in the Shop

    just waiting for 1 day something catches my eye.

    Ooh...thousands....like how many is that?

    50K, 100K?

    Or are you talking about 2 or 3K?

    If the latter you are on the equivalent of the Titanic, it will sink...just a matter of when.


    Well, it isn't much to go by. But even on the official forums (outside reddit and what not)...people are saying the game is extremely top heavy. And I tried it for a bit, and all the zones were empty while leveling. And I was told as a new player, it'll take ages to grind and time and effort to actually get to endgame. So by the time expansion comes out, there is even more to do.

    Plus even on official forums, people are asking for server merges...which isn't a good sign

    https://forums.daybreakgames.com/eq2/index.php?threads/server-merge.581042/

    In WoW, while leveling I often see people in every zone I go to. There are people everywhere. A big part of that is that cross realm stuff, but that makes a huge difference. In EQ2, its literally a singleplayer game until endgame lol. No one to find groups with, extremely hard to find dungeon groups and most people are at max level.
    ExcessionKyleran

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,730
    Last I checked in with EQ2 was a year or so ago and it was a graveyard...i saw no one anywhere and that was hanging out in town and at travel hubs.
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Last I checked in with EQ2 was a year or so ago and it was a graveyard...i saw no one anywhere and that was hanging out in town and at travel hubs.
    yeah that was my experience returning. Even the cities were really empty. The capital cities (Qeynos, and freeport) felt very lacking in players for being a major city.

    WoW has huge amounts of players in each city, especially the high pop servers. EQ2 though was completely opposite, randomly I'd see one person run by me on occasion in Qeynos. Freeport a little bit more, so maybe evil is slightly more popular, but still not much.
    Excession

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  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,197
    I'm pretty sure EQNext was the first domino in a long line of dominos that led to DBG being a washed up life support company. So as @Scorchien stated, 2009 was where it all started.

  • VutarVutar Member UncommonPosts: 906
    EQ and EQ2 are both going downhill. Thank Smedley for years of mismanagement leading to the sell off. 
  • Mackaveli44Mackaveli44 Member RarePosts: 509
    edited October 2017
    Last I checked in with EQ2 was a year or so ago and it was a graveyard...i saw no one anywhere and that was hanging out in town and at travel hubs.
    yeah that was my experience returning. Even the cities were really empty. The capital cities (Qeynos, and freeport) felt very lacking in players for being a major city.

    WoW has huge amounts of players in each city, especially the high pop servers. EQ2 though was completely opposite, randomly I'd see one person run by me on occasion in Qeynos. Freeport a little bit more, so maybe evil is slightly more popular, but still not much.
    That might have been because most players who are left playing the game, spend their time in Guild Halls.  While Guilds Halls are a great addition, they have ruined any sense of population in cities.  Last I played, I'd maybe see 1-5 players in them and that was when the servers(AB server) was always high in population, all thanks to the Guild Halls. 
    Kyleran
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