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Old TSW is way better than SWL.. sorry but thats a fact...

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    They didn't fix my major issue with the game...animations and combat.

    Somehow Age of Conan has better and more fluid combat with vastly better animations. I'm not sure how, because AoC is a lot older and looks way better. On top of that, AoC has better character models too but that is probably a personal thing.

    Instead, they made combat even MORE floaty and there is no impact or anything when you hit the enemy. Combat looks so much worse than it did before, and dunno how they managed to do that
    Dizisma

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,688
    edited September 2017
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    TSW or SWL are both good games or versions rather. The biggest issue with TSW was it's combat, which honestly was worse than that of Lord of the Rings Online. Despite the combat in LOTRO, I still enjoyed the game. In TSW and even in SWL, I still think the combat is clunky, lifeless and boring.

    Outside of combat, TSW / SWL is an amazing game. The quests and story, the puzzles were definitely the main reason people even stuck around.

    I understand there may be a lot, but more likely only a few people who don't like the changes. That's because game developers are notorious for overthinking stuff. Instead of just focusing on fixing combat, they made all sorts of changes that really had nothing to do with why people left.

    They probably thought, well, if we just fix the combat, that may not be enough to spark the interest of old players to return. So in their boardroom  meeting, someone came up with the bright idea that they should pretend to be doing some massive overhaul of mechanics and game design, as if making a completely new game. In reality, SWL isn't that much different and the combat was not really improved. I chalk this SWL upgrade to the equivalent of a SWG NGE/CU fiasco.


    SWL didn't really do as much as they hoped - sure it got the steam numbers from below 100 average CCU to over 1000 but that's still low.

    Here you can already see a major decline trend since July steam launch:


    if it weren't for Conan Exiles - Funcom would be in deep trouble.

    The majority of SWL players probably aren't Steam players though. They launched the game a good month before the Steam launch.

    Correct - this is not an entire picture by any means - but it can be used a good trending tool.

    I can tell you that the decline is not exclusive to steam players - non-steam population has declined at the same rate as well.
    Oh yeah, I figured. I'm part of that decline actually. My motivation to log on to SWL has been very low again recently. I mostly meant their numbers probably aren't as atrocious as the Steam chart alone shows. Plus, their most dedicated players are likely (mostly) part of the other group. I never saw the point of converting my account to a Steam one myself, although a few probably did.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,824
    I login daily and there's always others around.  The game ain't empty.
    Azaron_NightbladeAsm0deus

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,528
    DMKano said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    TSW or SWL are both good games or versions rather. The biggest issue with TSW was it's combat, which honestly was worse than that of Lord of the Rings Online. Despite the combat in LOTRO, I still enjoyed the game. In TSW and even in SWL, I still think the combat is clunky, lifeless and boring.

    Outside of combat, TSW / SWL is an amazing game. The quests and story, the puzzles were definitely the main reason people even stuck around.

    I understand there may be a lot, but more likely only a few people who don't like the changes. That's because game developers are notorious for overthinking stuff. Instead of just focusing on fixing combat, they made all sorts of changes that really had nothing to do with why people left.

    They probably thought, well, if we just fix the combat, that may not be enough to spark the interest of old players to return. So in their boardroom  meeting, someone came up with the bright idea that they should pretend to be doing some massive overhaul of mechanics and game design, as if making a completely new game. In reality, SWL isn't that much different and the combat was not really improved. I chalk this SWL upgrade to the equivalent of a SWG NGE/CU fiasco.


    SWL didn't really do as much as they hoped - sure it got the steam numbers from below 100 average CCU to over 1000 but that's still low.

    Here you can already see a major decline trend since July steam launch:


    if it weren't for Conan Exiles - Funcom would be in deep trouble.

    While it may be true that they'd be under except for Conan Exiles, according to Funcom themselves you're way off on SWL performance. They have stated it has performed well beyond their expectations. This last quarter was their best ever.
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

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  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,911
    Torval said:
    DMKano said:
    Rhoklaw said:
    TSW or SWL are both good games or versions rather. The biggest issue with TSW was it's combat, which honestly was worse than that of Lord of the Rings Online. Despite the combat in LOTRO, I still enjoyed the game. In TSW and even in SWL, I still think the combat is clunky, lifeless and boring.

    Outside of combat, TSW / SWL is an amazing game. The quests and story, the puzzles were definitely the main reason people even stuck around.

    I understand there may be a lot, but more likely only a few people who don't like the changes. That's because game developers are notorious for overthinking stuff. Instead of just focusing on fixing combat, they made all sorts of changes that really had nothing to do with why people left.

    They probably thought, well, if we just fix the combat, that may not be enough to spark the interest of old players to return. So in their boardroom  meeting, someone came up with the bright idea that they should pretend to be doing some massive overhaul of mechanics and game design, as if making a completely new game. In reality, SWL isn't that much different and the combat was not really improved. I chalk this SWL upgrade to the equivalent of a SWG NGE/CU fiasco.


    SWL didn't really do as much as they hoped - sure it got the steam numbers from below 100 average CCU to over 1000 but that's still low.

    Here you can already see a major decline trend since July steam launch:


    if it weren't for Conan Exiles - Funcom would be in deep trouble.

    While it may be true that they'd be under except for Conan Exiles, according to Funcom themselves you're way off on SWL performance. They have stated it has performed well beyond their expectations. This last quarter was their best ever.

    Initial sales were great, but players are moving on and sales have stalled - it doesnt matter due to Conan however.

    But yes initially they didnt expect the SWL to do so well - actually without SWL influx of cash Conan Exiles wouldnt be as successful in terms of paying for dev resources to get Conan Exiles out of the door so fast.

    But Conan is the cash cow now, SWL has surved its purpose of generating much needed cash influx to pave way for Conan franchise refocus.
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,682
    The majority of SWL players probably aren't Steam players though. They launched the game a good month before the Steam launch.
    While technically it might be correct, they indeed launched with the non-steamy client, if you put that in chronolgy it tells a bit different story :wink:

    They wanted to start with a lot of steam, so much that for a while it was even doubted they plan a standalone client at all, and not just going steamy-only like Exiles. Since they only said the steamy-free client will follow somewhere after, no specifics detailed.
    But then they noticed the other launches Gabe has for June and they got the creeps (they said "crowded market conditions" :lol: ), so pushed that back with a month. Which of course caused an issue, since they've said to the investors they will launch on Q2.
    And that's when suddenly, without any explanation, they just dropped in the line that the June launch will use their own client, and only next month comes the steamy launch.

    For the ratio of players, nobody has data on that besides FC, but I'm pretty sure (there was a moderate uproar on it), after the steamy launch in July they automatically put everyone who had steamy TSW onto the steamy client, probably just to boost the numbers.
    Torval said:
    They have stated it has performed well beyond their expectations. This last quarter was their best ever.
    It is mentioned a lot around here since the report is out, and I still don't get why :smile:  It's right in the report, so doesn't even need math skills or anything: the best ever 6 months (and not quarter) is Exiles. It has nothing to do with Legends, since it launched at the end of the month, and even from that week 3 days were the early headstart for TSW players.

    So it doesn't matter if you examine the 3 or the 6 months, a few days have minimal impact on that. But it is there, in the report too. Sure, it's a fine print under the graph, but you can use the zoom function if needed... :wink: 
    (even help you, if you checked only the presentation which was circulated around the news sites, with the screamy face logo and such, you can find it on page 9. Or, if you like number crunching, you can check the actual report too.)
    Azaron_Nightblade
  • RevofireRevofire Member UncommonPosts: 269
    I played TSW and as all agree here, best story, atmosphere, etc. seen in an MMO really. However there are many gameplay pitfalls that made me fall off the map. I want to return and I think SWL is what will do it.
    Torvalsumdumguy1
    Change your thoughts and you change your world. - Norman Vincent Peale


  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 4,021
    So some think that the combat has improved. But what is the point if the mobs are so much easier now?

    I saw playthroughs from current SWL with people who didn't know what they were doing, pulling too many mobs, soaking up damage from big attacks and barely lose any hp.

    What I remember from TSW is that if you ended up in an area with mobs a few lvls above you , you had to actually pay attention to stay alive. Those telegraphed attacks would destroy you.

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,824
    So some think that the combat has improved. But what is the point if the mobs are so much easier now?

    I saw playthroughs from current SWL with people who didn't know what they were doing, pulling too many mobs, soaking up damage from big attacks and barely lose any hp.

    What I remember from TSW is that if you ended up in an area with mobs a few lvls above you , you had to actually pay attention to stay alive. Those telegraphed attacks would destroy you.

    You could also go throw a tunnel or cave and the mobs would go from level 20 to level 50 in a few areas.  I didn't know it at the time but found out about it now that you can actually see a mobs level.  I like to explore and remembered getting one-hit-killed from time to time.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,228
    For me, the most irritating part is that all of this money they've dumped into TSW and Conan Exiles while completely abandoning Age of Conan, which is a far better game.

    There are times when I daydream of winning the lottery, buying AoC away from them and turning it into the masterpiece it should be.
    Octagon7711Po_ggSacrotus
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    Opinions vs. facts ... not hard to tell the difference, and yet ....
    MrMelGibsonAsm0deus
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,682
    H0urg1ass said:
    For me, the most irritating part is that all of this money they've dumped into TSW and Conan Exiles while completely abandoning Age of Conan, which is a far better game.
    Wouldn't say better, both were awesome - and look at the bright side, AoC still is. I pretty much neglected it during the TSW years (played only 1, or maybe 2 months per year, tops), but since TSW is gone AoC became my refuge.
    Plus I sorta 'rediscovered' AO too, after the gfx revamp I made a new character, but then I went back to TSW... now I have the extra time to play that again from scratch.


    Imagine if they'd put the fairly free crafting of Exiles into AoC, as promised... and the improved tools for Architects for their guild city building... "no, let's sell it as a standalone game, more money in there" the greedy fucks.
    (and if no Exiles, and no money shower on them, TSW could still be here, on maintenance mode, since they'd never gamble with their main income source then)
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,824
    I noticed an update when I logged in today.  The daily free cache key no longer goes only to your first character, it's a delivery that any character can claim which is good because if you a have max out character who no longer needs keys your other characters can now get them instead.  Good change. :smiley:
    Torval

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,528
    It's almost time to resub. This game works so well for me with the fall holiday season and all the supernatural spookiness.
    Octagon7711blueturtle13
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

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  • DoctorhooDoctorhoo Member UncommonPosts: 222
    Have to admit that the voice acting for the various characters and atmosphere was very good for this game.   What burned me out on it when I had played TSW back when it was new and healing Nightmare content with a very active Cabal, was that progression was very slow and there were no raids back then.  

    So I decided to look at it again in its new incarnation as SWL. I noticed there was new tutorial that made the story make more sense at the beginning and taught you a few basics.  Combat seemed similar to before but they changed the skill trees for active and passive skills.
    The 3 main currencies - Aurum for cash, Shards for selling anything to vendor and used to teleport, and MoF which you get from doing completing Challenge Quests daily and for trading on Auction House.

    Overall, have been enjoying it.  Yes, I bought the original game in 2012 and don't plan on putting more money into it but there seems to be systems in game to use the Exchange MoF for Aurum - so if you play it alot you might not have to pay cash for some stuff using that system.   

    I still think its a good game with some value.  I personally I liked the old wheel skill system better in TSW but the SWL tree can work, its just very normal looking and not a deal breaker for me.  To comment on an above statement, yes combat survival seems easier now regardless of how much you pull, big pulls by mistake used to kill you easier.  I hear they actually have raids now, I'll have to check it out when I get there again.  

    Bottomline: if you liked TSW before you'll probably still like SWL.  If you didn't like TSW you still won't like it.
  • CelciusCelcius Member RarePosts: 1,547
    edited October 2017
    Just wanted to come here and say that stating an opinion as fact does not make it any less an opinion. That is all. 
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 800
    edited October 2017
    Opinion doesn't equate to fact.

    I've played both. Each has different merits.

    The story is very similar between then, save for tutorial areas. The quality and presentation of the story are quite good.

    Combat is more dynamic in SWL, and plays smoother as well. I prefer the method of resource gain and expenditure in that game compared to TSW. The varied weapon specific system that were added in SWL are something I could have done without but not enough of a bother that I don't wish them to be removed.

    Character development in TSW had more customized and granular character development than SWL, but the Wheel had the potential to be daunting to some, like my girl, and potentially off-putting. Being more streamlined in SWL made that version more accessible to the newcomer, but at the expense of the subtleties of the Wheel.

    I prefer the game play of SWL but miss the Wheel of TSW somewhat.

    However, the accessibility gained by the streamlining that went into SWL renewed my girl's interest in the title so that instead of being intimidated into not playing she now eagerly does so and it is one of her favourites.

    As such I am quite content to sacrifice the nuance of the Wheel so that I can play with my girl at my side, enhancing the Secret World experience greatly for both of us.

    So, in my self-centered and biased opinion, SWL is better... for us.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 800
    edited October 2017
    (oops double post)
  • Po_ggPo_gg Member RarePosts: 4,682
    Doctorhoo said:
    What burned me out on it when I had played TSW back when it was new and healing Nightmare content with a very active Cabal, was that progression was very slow and there were no raids back then.  
    Maybe you've left a tad bit early, the first raid was added with Issue#4, a couple months after launch.
  • DoctorhooDoctorhoo Member UncommonPosts: 222
    I might have tried the New York one back then but don't remember it much off the top of my head.  I do remember Tokyo being dangled in front of player's noses since shortly after launch, which is part of the reason I decided to re-download it again and see what's new.  The story was good then despite the other shortcoming of the game.

    And yes, I loved the wheel system as well but it apparently was not the end all be all if I had left the game then and decided to return recently after the conversion from TSW to SWL.  Figured I give it a few months to work the bugs out.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,432
    I bit the bullet myself and gave it a go. Honestly, the only thing I like in version compared to the old one is just knowing where to go and getting through the story faster. As for the combat, things are "smoother" I guess but the concept is definitely worse to me vs the original wheel system. It feels like there's hardly any weapon system, just spam one weapon's ability, then another briefly and then build so you can spam the first faster. I'm not sure why they took out the ability to build resources for both weapons with one weapon builder and you can only have one builder type set, which is dumb especially since they lowered your ability count to 6 (7 if you count the gadget?) and passives to 5 for some reason. Just a lot of questionable choices all around that made me feel like they were hoping the reboot would be a big enough hit for it to launch on consoles or something. Overall, it feels a bit below average and the window they gave to let you get your stuff from the original game onto the new one seemed a bit small as well.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    Combat is an improvement for the game. Should have happened in TSW.

    Beyond that there was nothing else to SWL. It had less content and went with an even more grind based game that easily matches any Korean grinder. Not to mention that some of the grind was forced. Needed upgrade items hidden behind content most hated. (scenarios)

    Funcom has given up being different and has adopted money first. Was bound to happen.
  • anjealous82anjealous82 Member UncommonPosts: 123
    edited February 2018
    Shinami said:
    I liked TSW's Quests and the setting, but what had me go even though I loved the game was the lack of community. Cabals were mostly Chat-Warriors, who never showed their face. Then most dungeons were "Trash-Mob followed by Boss" thrown in your face, void of everything you should expect out of an Instance Dungeon. 

    I couldn't stand spending 90% of the time in-game alone. 

    As a rule, 
    If most of my time is spent alone in an online game, its no better than playing one of the plethora of Single Player games out there with better story than what most MMOs have to offer. 

    Yeah and that hasn't change in Secret World Legends. It's still the same, with the difference being chat is so quiet that you can hear crickets chirp in the game. Dungeons may had some improvement, but sometimes you might get an all DPS group. No one likes to play healer or Tank. So their has been little in the way of change. Even when I play in areas like Kingsmoth or Savage Coast at launch, I ran across one or two players at most in these zones. So for me nothing really changed.

    I do consider Spamming chat  to find teammates for dungeon runs a lot less productive, then the LFG function,
  • jfarquejfarque Member UncommonPosts: 3
    Hariken said:
    deniter said:
    TSW was never a great game, but SWL is definitely a step in the wrong direction.
    100% this
    Anarchy online was and always will be the best game Funcom ever made. 

    I know there are people that would disagree but AO was, in my opinion, one of the best games of the century thus far. The *launch* was record-settingly bad without question, but the design of the game and classes was fantastic. To date there have not been classes in MMOs that rival the Bureaucrat and the Metaphysicist for pure fun and startling originality.

    To my mind TSW falls into the same Funcom trap. The *game* is great, but the marketing and the accessibility of the game to the average player are inferior to games like EQ, WoW, etc.

    But man, Funcom has some fun and original ideas.
  • QuarterStackQuarterStack Member UncommonPosts: 394
    edited July 2018
    I wouldn't go so far to call it "fact", but I emphatically agree that TSW was far better than SWL. 

    I've gone back and given SWL a good-faith, honest-to-goodness attempt. I left behind what I remembered about TSW, and was playing SWL on its own terms. I just uninstalled it. I've seen enough.

    It's unplayable to me. I hate the new combat system - on its own terms, not "compared to TSW". It feels like a sloppily conceived attempt at streamlining. The skill lines idea is okay, but the implementation is really poor. Feels really kludgy.

    Also, the game is EMPTY. TSW/SWL was never a highly populated game; still, I remember going to Agartha and finding the place crowded as hell, to the point of laggyness. In TSW, I would always see many people, hanging out, talking, RP'ing, etc. I went there in SWL, during Prime Time, when it's usually crowded, and there were maybe 20 people between the arrival platform and the "hollowed hall" area, with just random people running/traveling elsewhere.  I used to see a number of others running around the playfields when ever I was logged in. I saw all of 2 or 3 in total in the span of 3 or 4 hours. 

    Chat was quiet with only the same 4 or 5 people chatting. Chat use to be really active; I'd disable it sometimes 'cause it was too much to follow. In my time checking out SWL, it was a ghost town.

    Seems FC's attempts at courting a broader playerbase didn't pan out beyond the initial honeymoon/novelty phase. No surprise there, at all. Radically changing and streamlining a game, with sweeping changes no existing players were asking for, to try and make it appealing to more people seldom ever works out. Especially not the way FC handled it. You alienate the people who stuck around because they liked the game as it was, while failing to attract fresh blood, because it's "an old game". Seen it time and again. Seems FC hasn't been paying attention.

    I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel a bit vindicated. I said this was going to be a bad move in the long run back when they first announced the change to F2P/SWL, and got a taste of the changes for myself. Not saying "SWL is dead". Not even saying it's "dying". But, at best, it's doing as well as TSW was, or possibly worse; like I said, I routinely saw far more people out and about and in chat in TSW, right up 'til it was converted over. From my own time and experience.

    FC should have left TSW alone and catered to the long-time, loyal players they'd earned over its first several years. They could have done some marketing and promotion to bring in new players who would enjoy it, but perhaps weren't aware of it. But, anyone who's followed FC knows they're awful at marketing (aside from "we have naked boobs" for their Conan titles). The time and money spent on SWL could have gone into needed optimizations and improvements to the engine and infrastructure for the game they already had.

    Well, the original TSW is still available/playable. So who knows... maybe they'll try and right their screw-ups and bring back the loyal players they'd earned and then tossed aside in the first place. Not holding my breath... but it's nice to think about.

    Sad.
    Post edited by QuarterStack on
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