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Okay WTF is a MMO? Really?

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,106
    Quizzical said:
    So I tried consulting Wikipedia and learned that MMO stands for Mixed Metal Oxide.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMO
    Marine Mammal Observer is the first thing I always think of.
    sschruppTheScavengerCecropia
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    IceAge said:
    klash2def said:
    I recommend some of you read the book Singularity by Ray Kurzwiel and watch his videos in general. He is a futurist (Much Like myself) He talks a lot about how change will always be met with resistance whether its good or bad, humans don't naturally like change.

    I remember when people were mad at fully voiced games now almost every game is fully voiced. 

    Print companies used to say "Print isn't dead!" Now they all have online magazines. Its cheaper.
    Change.
    The fuck comparation is that?

    Listen. Call whatever you want your Destiny 2, but not MMO! 
    Oh you are angry? Why? I didnt say anything sinister good sir? Why are you so angry? 
    ExcessionTheScavenger
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Destiny 2 is more of an MMO than most MMOs.

    Real MMOs I'd consider are ones like SWG or EVE Online, with no instances (that is a co-op experience, not an MMO experience) and you can be part of one server filled with tens of thousands of players.

    MMOs however that have only 5-10 people playing and only 40-50 at most at peak? Definitely not a massive experience, only a "potential" to be massive but that is all.
    Excessionklash2defIselinMaurgrim

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

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  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:

    As for what I said.. WHAT I said was people who resist change are people who think old. That's true, so if the shoe fits wear it not my business..  but I didn't ONE TIME say everybody in this thread who does not agree with me are old thinkers and cant adapt. Stop twisting my words to build your narrative. 
    Oh look your 2nd post in this thread in response to Locke:

    People have to stop resisting change that is why the mmo market as a whole is in the shape it is in now. People want new things but when they get it, they resist and cry about the "Old Ways"

    See I told you what you said earlier was still there.

    Anyway... dude... have a nice life and have fun playing all them there MMOs that you know so much about.
    You did not make one single point here. What? You proved my point if anything. I said People have to stop resisting change. Yes they should..I said people want new things but when they get them they cry about the old ways.. Yes thats true.

    Whats your point? You quoted me saying the same exact thing twice LOL.. 

    IS this supposed to prove I said everyone who disagrees with me is old and cant adapt? Because it doesn't. You know why right? Because I never said it, you just tried to twist my words again and failed again because I wont let you get away with it. 
    OMG... you ASSUMED that the reason people don't agree with your wacky labeling is because they're resisting change. Capisce Mr. futurama?
    Again, I never once said anything about people who don't agree with me. That was you. Please find where I said "People who don't agree with me are _____" I never said anything like that. You did. I don't care who agrees with me as its my opinion. I'm not fragile like you obviously are. I don't need people to agree, I am simply making a point which you have failed to do.

    You keep bringing up things I said then try to twist it to fit a narrative that keeps falling apart for you. 
    TheScavenger
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Also to add to the above. How are instances an MMO experience? I can do a dungeon with 6-8 people in WoW, but that isn't massively multiplayer. Where as, in EVE Online thousands take part in the same world and countless people can be in the same system with each other.

    An instanced dungeon is more like playing a co-op game, not an MMO game. Definitely nothing massive about a tiny group in a dungeon.
    klash2def

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    I'm trying to google this massive online game world people are saying is real. With 1000s of people running around at once, I'm having a hard time finding it. Almost like its not real.. Last time I checked all MMOs instance off groups of people. Just like Destiny even if its smaller its the same idea. But OKAY..

    Seems like to me some people are attached to a term from the old days and cant bear to see it applied to anything else. Peak Fragility. 
    TheScavengerMaurgrim
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,304
    klash2def said:
    IceAge said:
    klash2def said:
    I recommend some of you read the book Singularity by Ray Kurzwiel and watch his videos in general. He is a futurist (Much Like myself) He talks a lot about how change will always be met with resistance whether its good or bad, humans don't naturally like change.

    I remember when people were mad at fully voiced games now almost every game is fully voiced. 

    Print companies used to say "Print isn't dead!" Now they all have online magazines. Its cheaper.
    Change.
    The fuck comparation is that?

    Listen. Call whatever you want your Destiny 2, but not MMO! 
    Oh you are angry? Why? I didnt say anything sinister good sir? Why are you so angry? 
    Angry ? Because you have wet dreams to see Destiny 2 labeled as a MMO? Not going to happen. If your theory is right , meaning that you call a game now with 16 players per server a MMO ( since times changes ) , then in 10 years what would kids like you call 1 v 1 games? 
    TheScavenger

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,304
    klash2def said:
    Seems like to me some people are attached to a term from the old days and cant bear to see it applied to anything else. Peak Fragility. 
    It's like you are trying to apply the term "Trucks" to "VAN's". See the difference? Yes, both auto vehicles, but different categories.
    TheScavenger

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    IceAge said:
    klash2def said:
    IceAge said:
    klash2def said:
    I recommend some of you read the book Singularity by Ray Kurzwiel and watch his videos in general. He is a futurist (Much Like myself) He talks a lot about how change will always be met with resistance whether its good or bad, humans don't naturally like change.

    I remember when people were mad at fully voiced games now almost every game is fully voiced. 

    Print companies used to say "Print isn't dead!" Now they all have online magazines. Its cheaper.
    Change.
    The fuck comparation is that?

    Listen. Call whatever you want your Destiny 2, but not MMO! 
    Oh you are angry? Why? I didnt say anything sinister good sir? Why are you so angry? 
    Angry ? Because you have wet dreams to see Destiny 2 labeled as a MMO? Not going to happen. If your theory is right , meaning that you call a game now with 16 players per server a MMO ( since times changes ) , then in 10 years what would kids like you call 1 v 1 games? 
    I'm not a child, far from it.. Please calm down. 

    Look at the trends not me. All these games have heavy MMO features not just some but A LOT.. so the argument is its instances are too small to be called a MMO but.. 

    GTA Online - 20 Players per instance (75 Million Copies Sold)
    Star Citizen - 16 Players per instance (not sure of numbers sold still in alpha) 
    The Division-  24 players per instance (3.4 M Copies Sold)
    Destiny - 20 Players per instance (5.6 M Copies Sold)
    Anthem - Not announced but I bet its going to be around these numbers

    The numbers are there, people are playing but its curated way differently than what you are used to.. 

    Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the future of MMOs! Hate it or Love it, its happening! 

    lawl

    TheScavenger
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Literally offshore, 10 leagues deep, gulf of Mexico drowning in stupid.
    TheScavengerLimnicPhaserlightJamesGoblin

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  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    I'd much rather be stupid for having a opinion than be a coward who hurls insults at people for having a opinion. 
    TheScavengerJamesGoblin
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL.

    WoW legion had that pre event.. it was instanced off into different groups. The one with the demon invasion.  There wasnt 1000 people in the same instance. More like 40. All the games I mentioned do the same thing just at a smaller scale.  
    TheScavenger
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited September 2017
    klash2def said:
    I'd much rather be stupid for having a opinion than be a coward who hurls insults at people for having a opinion. 
    No, you're just stupid.  Period, dot.  Not for having an opinion, but for willful ignorance.
    TheScavengerIceAgeMaurgrimJamesGoblin

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  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,884
    klash2def said:
    All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL.

    WoW legion had that pre event.. it was instanced off into different groups. The one with the demon invasion.  There wasnt 1000 people in the same instance. More like 40. All the games I mentioned do the same thing just at a smaller scale.  
    False
    TheScavengerLimnic
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    Scorchien said:
    klash2def said:
    All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL.

    WoW legion had that pre event.. it was instanced off into different groups. The one with the demon invasion.  There wasnt 1000 people in the same instance. More like 40. All the games I mentioned do the same thing just at a smaller scale.  
    False
    Okay please name the game CURRENTLY active that has 1000 people in the same instance.
    TheScavenger
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    klash2def said:
    All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL.

    WoW legion had that pre event.. it was instanced off into different groups. The one with the demon invasion.  There wasnt 1000 people in the same instance. More like 40. All the games I mentioned do the same thing just at a smaller scale.  
    Check out my thread, it explains how MMOs are now and how its far broader

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/467918/like-genders-the-mmo-definition-has-evolved-and-the-old-definition-no-longer-applies#latest

    You and I won't get many agreements here on MMORPG.com though. The old school MMOers congregate here and can't let go of the past. Other sites are far more open to the new definition of MMOs.

    MMOs have changed a lot and there are far more MMOs than there used to be, but people on this site refuse to keep up with the times and are stuck in the past and refuse to call them MMOs

    Like I said in my thread. The vast majority of the time in WoW is spent in 6 player sized groups (dungeons). Old MMOs that would never be seen as massive, but MMOs have changed and have a far broader definition than before. The old definition is obsolete.
    klash2defIselinMaurgrim

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,884
    klash2def said:
    Scorchien said:
    klash2def said:
    All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL.

    WoW legion had that pre event.. it was instanced off into different groups. The one with the demon invasion.  There wasnt 1000 people in the same instance. More like 40. All the games I mentioned do the same thing just at a smaller scale.  
    False
    Okay please name the game CURRENTLY active that has 1000 people in the same instance.
    First of all thats not what you said ... Dont move the goal posts ...

      you said "All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL."

      Now ..

         UO
         DAOC
          DArkfall
           Eve
            Runescape
              Everquest
                
      For starters ......there are more :)
    LimnicJamesGoblin
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    klash2def said:
    I'd much rather be stupid for having a opinion than be a coward who hurls insults at people for having a opinion. 
    No, you're just stupid.  Period, dot.  Not for having an opinion, but for willful ignorance.
    and you are a coward. period. 

    How am I ignorant? Its my OPINION.. what don't you understand about opinion? Is English your second language or some shit? IDK about where you live but here every grown ass man is entitled to their opinion. Just because a person does not share the same as you does not make them ignorant. I could say you are ignorant and act all high and mighty like I know something you don't know but I'm not.. I'm just giving my opinion.

    If my opinion bothers you that bad you can send me a message to discuss but I'm done talking to you here because I don't want to stoop to your level and start insulting you back, because its going to go somewhere you don't want it to go.

    I'm not that guy. I don't do internet beef. I'm just giving my opinion bro. Let it be that. Stop insulting me. I'm telling you.
    TheScavengerJamesGoblin
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    klash2def said:
    All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL.

    WoW legion had that pre event.. it was instanced off into different groups. The one with the demon invasion.  There wasnt 1000 people in the same instance. More like 40. All the games I mentioned do the same thing just at a smaller scale.  
    While Scorchien failed to clarify or explain his position at all, if he is saying the statement that all group content is done in instances then he would be correct. To name a few, there is plenty of group content in EVE that is not instanced. All the world content in ArcheAge. Wurm Rifts, etc.

    The difference between a true MMO and fully instanced games is the Open World aspect. The fact that specific parts of the map can host hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. This enables content not available in other games, which is what gives MMORPGs a meaningful distinction from other titles.

    For instance, my favorite content is small group Open World PvP. Where you roam around the open world with a gang of buddies and fight other players and groups of players you encounter. Now small group PvP is obviously possible in a game like Destiny. But when the player cap is 20 that means a 10v10 requires the entire population of the shard you are in divide itself evenly in half and meet up to fight.

    A random encounter of two small to moderate sized groups is simply not possible in that kind of environment. So when it comes down to it you can dress a pig in lipstick and call it Natalie Portman but the kind of "MMO" you are describing not only fails to qualify under the definition of MMO accepted by most players (Hence why you keep seeing people say it is not all across the internet apparently) but it fails to deliver to me the kind of content I play MMOs for.
    FaunNoeklash2defLimnicJamesGoblin
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Yes, because you haven't been taking a confrontational attitude with anyone who disagrees with you.

    I literally laughed when I read you claim you haven't been acting all high and mighty.  You've responded incredulously to anyone who disagrees with you.

    Just so we're clear:

    Incredulous - (adjective) unwilling or unable to believe something.

    Just so you don't go off on some tangent about shit that isn't pertinent.


    TheScavengerJamesGoblin

    image
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    Scorchien said:
    klash2def said:
    Scorchien said:
    klash2def said:
    All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL.

    WoW legion had that pre event.. it was instanced off into different groups. The one with the demon invasion.  There wasnt 1000 people in the same instance. More like 40. All the games I mentioned do the same thing just at a smaller scale.  
    False
    Okay please name the game CURRENTLY active that has 1000 people in the same instance.
    First of all thats not what you said ... Dont move the goal posts ...

      you said "All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL."

      Now ..

         UO
         DAOC
          DArkfall
           Eve
            Runescape
              Everquest
                
      For starters ......there are more :)
    I literally said there wasn't 1000 people read my post again You quoted. I've been saying that the whole time. MMO seems to be attached to a number of people in a instance for a lot posters here. 

    All the games you listed are old world games and I'll give you EVE i played it before it sure felt like 1000 maybe not but it felt like it. 

    But the other games.. so you are saying you can do raids and GROUP CONTENT not solo.. GROUP with up to 1000 people? 

    Even if so, you wont find games like that being made now, because its a old expensive way of thinking. All those games are old..
    TheScavengerIselinJamesGoblin
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • FaunNoeFaunNoe Member UncommonPosts: 56
    Just because a vanilla cake has chocolate sprinkles on it doesn't make it a chocolate cake. 
    klash2defJamesGoblin
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    edited September 2017
    Yes, because you haven't been taking a confrontational attitude with anyone who disagrees with you.

    I literally laughed when I read you claim you haven't been acting all high and mighty.  You've responded incredulously to anyone who disagrees with you.

    Just so we're clear:

    Incredulous - (adjective) unwilling or unable to believe something.

    Just so you don't go off on some tangent about shit that isn't pertinent.


    No the fuck I haven't you lying sack of shit. I have been having engaging debates and convos with everyone but you and one other person because you keep insulting me. You are so fragile that reading another persons opinion infuriates you to the point you have to throw insults to try to take away from my point, that's how I know I'm making sense. You just don't want to get it. 

    Again, its my opinion based on what I observe I don't care if you like it and damn sure dont care if you agree..  Im not going to lose any sleep, hell you can die tonight for all I care I wouldn't bat an eyelash my dude. :wink:

    Edit: pardon my language. Teehee! 
    TheScavengerMadFrenchieJamesGoblin
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,884
    klash2def said:
    Scorchien said:
    klash2def said:
    Scorchien said:
    klash2def said:
    All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL.

    WoW legion had that pre event.. it was instanced off into different groups. The one with the demon invasion.  There wasnt 1000 people in the same instance. More like 40. All the games I mentioned do the same thing just at a smaller scale.  
    False
    Okay please name the game CURRENTLY active that has 1000 people in the same instance.
    First of all thats not what you said ... Dont move the goal posts ...

      you said "All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL."

      Now ..

         UO
         DAOC
          DArkfall
           Eve
            Runescape
              Everquest
                
      For starters ......there are more :)
    I literally said there wasn't 1000 people read my post again You quoted. I've been saying that the whole time. MMO seems to be attached to a number of people in a instance for a lot posters here. 

    All the games you listed are old world games and I'll give you EVE i played it before it sure felt like 1000 maybe not but it felt like it. 

    But the other games.. so you are saying you can do raids and GROUP CONTENT not solo.. GROUP with up to 1000 people? 

    Even if so, you wont find games like that being made now, because its a old expensive way of thinking. All those games are old..
         I quoted your statement ... That statement on its own merits is False..........
    IselinTheScavenger
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,550
    edited September 2017
    Eldurian said:
    klash2def said:
    All MMOs instance you off when you need to do group content. ALL.

    WoW legion had that pre event.. it was instanced off into different groups. The one with the demon invasion.  There wasnt 1000 people in the same instance. More like 40. All the games I mentioned do the same thing just at a smaller scale.  
    While Scorchien failed to clarify or explain his position at all, if he is saying the statement that all group content is done in instances then he would be correct. To name a few, there is plenty of group content in EVE that is not instanced. All the world content in ArcheAge. Wurm Rifts, etc.

    The difference between a true MMO and fully instanced games is the Open World aspect. The fact that specific parts of the map can host hundreds or thousands of players simultaneously. This enables content not available in other games, which is what gives MMORPGs a meaningful distinction from other titles.

    For instance, my favorite content is small group Open World PvP. Where you roam around the open world with a gang of buddies and fight other players and groups of players you encounter. Now small group PvP is obviously possible in a game like Destiny. But when the player cap is 20 that means a 10v10 requires the entire population of the shard you are in divide itself evenly in half and meet up to fight.

    A random encounter of two small to moderate sized groups is simply not possible in that kind of environment. So when it comes down to it you can dress a pig in lipstick and call it Natalie Portman but the kind of "MMO" you are describing not only fails to qualify under the definition of MMO accepted by most players (Hence why you keep seeing people say it is not all across the internet apparently) but it fails to deliver to me the kind of content I play MMOs for.
    Now About the open world part.. I hear where you are coming from, but I'm curious is there a difference between custom content (people making up things to do with friends) and Group Content (Raids, Dungeons, Quests) ?

    the reason I ask is because if Destiny allows you to do group content the same way you described in the open world.. For instance you see a beacon that is relaying a random mission to take out a cabal camp.. everyone in that area can hear that same message and do that misson with you. Regardless of if they are in your fire team or not.. Thats 1 type of group content in destiny.

    On WoW open world PVP only happens on PVP servers? I may be super off on that cause I haven't played since forever, but Unless you attack a city you cant just pvp unless you request a duel? Did that change?  
    TheScavengerJamesGoblin
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard

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