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Okay WTF is a MMO? Really?

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  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,734
    Lol, and yet you still choose willful ignorance because you seem unable to fathom that you might be wrong.

    You fell right back into the "it doesn't need to be massively multiplayer to be a massively multiplayer game!" which has already been exposed as an invalid argument.  By multiple people.

    But hey, you can keep flipping over this if you like.  It won't make you any more right.
    Bro please answer the question. You have not answered one question because you realize what I'm saying is right. I ask again good sir. What are these Additional MMO features you speak of that Destiny does not have? 
    ExcessionTheScavengerMaurgrimJamesGoblin
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,734
    klash2def said:

    MMO: Raids, Quests, Custom Avatar, Dungeons, Group Content, PVP, Open World, Access to 1000s people, ONLINE ONLY EXPERIENCE (( MMO NEEDS ALL OF THESE AT LEAST ))

    Except that you don't have access to thousands of people in Destiny like you do in an actual MMO.  I can't go anywhere in the world and meet up with people in Destiny and form a party to do a dungeon or raid like I can in an actual MMO.  I have to goto the Hub area and meet them there then go into the mission from the hub area.  At least that was the way it was last I played.  Admittedly it's been a while.
    Destiny you can join anyone's Fireteam from anywhere in the game space it was always that way. The hub is just a place in the game world. The function of pressing the start button and clicking "Add To Fire team" was always there man.
    ExcessionTheScavengerJamesGoblin
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    klash2def said:
    Lol, and yet you still choose willful ignorance because you seem unable to fathom that you might be wrong.

    You fell right back into the "it doesn't need to be massively multiplayer to be a massively multiplayer game!" which has already been exposed as an invalid argument.  By multiple people.

    But hey, you can keep flipping over this if you like.  It won't make you any more right.
    Bro please answer the question. You have not answered one question because you realize what I'm saying is right. I ask again good sir. What are these Additional MMO features you speak of that Destiny does not have? 
    The ability to complete game content while interacting with massive amounts of other players simultaneously in the game world.  Y'know, the "massively multiplayer" part.
    ExcessionTheScavengerJamesGoblin

    image
  • KyutaSyukoKyutaSyuko Member UncommonPosts: 288
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:

    MMO: Raids, Quests, Custom Avatar, Dungeons, Group Content, PVP, Open World, Access to 1000s people, ONLINE ONLY EXPERIENCE (( MMO NEEDS ALL OF THESE AT LEAST ))

    Except that you don't have access to thousands of people in Destiny like you do in an actual MMO.  I can't go anywhere in the world and meet up with people in Destiny and form a party to do a dungeon or raid like I can in an actual MMO.  I have to goto the Hub area and meet them there then go into the mission from the hub area.  At least that was the way it was last I played.  Admittedly it's been a while.
    Destiny you can join anyone's Fireteam from anywhere in the game space it was always that way. The hub is just a place in the game world. The function of pressing the start button and clicking "Add To Fire team" was always there man.
    That was not the point I was trying to make.  The point I was trying to make is that to do anything in Destiny you have to go from the hub into the mission/raid vs them having a fixed location in the world where thousands of people are freely roaming.
    klash2defExcession
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,734
    klash2def said:

    MMO: Raids, Quests, Custom Avatar, Dungeons, Group Content, PVP, Open World, Access to 1000s people, ONLINE ONLY EXPERIENCE (( MMO NEEDS ALL OF THESE AT LEAST ))

    Except that you don't have access to thousands of people in Destiny like you do in an actual MMO.  I can't go anywhere in the world and meet up with people in Destiny and form a party to do a dungeon or raid like I can in an actual MMO.  I have to goto the Hub area and meet them there then go into the mission from the hub area.  At least that was the way it was last I played.  Admittedly it's been a while.
    It doesn't matter.  It appears that including RPG tropes makes you an MMORPG, at least according to the OP.

    So hey, here's to one of the best MMORPGs of 2016: Divinity: Original Sin!
    Stop twisting my words. Again. I said you need all those things to be an MMO not just RPG tropes. I literally named everything. And you insist on twisting my words to fit a narrative. Also now I really feel like you haven't played Destiny, because instead of telling this person that hey you can actually make a group ANYWHERE in the game space, you say something like this. SMH.. 
    ExcessionTheScavenger
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,186
    klash2def said:
    Annnnnnddddddd...  You're still arguing a red herring.  Noice!!
    annnnnnnnnnnddddd you are still missing the point. Noicer!!!
    Not at all.  You think forcing multiplayer on players and using dungeon crawling as group content qualifies Destiny to be an MMORPG.  Only, nothing about sharing the game world or dungeon crawling defines an MMORPG.  It qualifies it as multiplayer and RPG, respectively.  Additional features are needed to qualify it as massively multiplayer.
    That's exactly why Kano saying above that Narius is also right shows the root of the ignorance problem: when some online game has features resembling those historically found in MMOs, which is happening more and more these days, some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon and call them an MMO despite the fact that there is nothing massively multiplayer about it. Some MMOs have LFG tools so other games that have LFG lobbies must also be MMOs. Some MMOs have non-persistent instances for 4 or 5 players... therefore other multiplayer games with non persistent instances for 4 or 5 players must also be an MMO. People don't talk much in MMOs and they maybe know 40 people in a given MMO they play... therefore games with 40 people max *like survival games) are also MMOs. Likewise something that IS an MMO doesn't stop being one when the population is low even if it feels that way to you. If you're in a forest and have all your atention focused on one tree, you're still in a fucking forest.

    I can see that some MP games provide an experience that is similar to that of some modern MMOs but that still doesn't make them MMOs. Not that it really makes much difference if you enjoy it: you can call it Bob if that works for you.

    But people like the OP, for some unfathomable reason want to call non-MMOs, MMOs as if that mattered. I guess he must hold the MMO descriptor in high regard and wants whatever he likes to be labeled that way. I can see a site wanting to get more clicks doing it but WhyTF would a player do it?

    If we were actually playing an MMO I see a lot of people in this thread dying from standing in stupid.
    MadFrenchieExcessionTheScavengerMaurgrimJamesGoblin
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:

    MMO: Raids, Quests, Custom Avatar, Dungeons, Group Content, PVP, Open World, Access to 1000s people, ONLINE ONLY EXPERIENCE (( MMO NEEDS ALL OF THESE AT LEAST ))

    Except that you don't have access to thousands of people in Destiny like you do in an actual MMO.  I can't go anywhere in the world and meet up with people in Destiny and form a party to do a dungeon or raid like I can in an actual MMO.  I have to goto the Hub area and meet them there then go into the mission from the hub area.  At least that was the way it was last I played.  Admittedly it's been a while.
    It doesn't matter.  It appears that including RPG tropes makes you an MMORPG, at least according to the OP.

    So hey, here's to one of the best MMORPGs of 2016: Divinity: Original Sin!
    Stop twisting my words. Again. I said you need all those things to be an MMO not just RPG tropes. I literally named everything. And you insist on twisting my words to fit a narrative. Also now I really feel like you haven't played Destiny, because instead of telling this person that hey you can actually make a group ANYWHERE in the game space, you say something like this. SMH.. 
    I'm not.  Nothing about the features you mentioned qualify Destiny as an MMORPG.
    ExcessionTheScavenger

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,186
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:
    Annnnnnddddddd...  You're still arguing a red herring.  Noice!!
    annnnnnnnnnnddddd you are still missing the point. Noicer!!!
    Not at all.  You think forcing multiplayer on players and using dungeon crawling as group content qualifies Destiny to be an MMORPG.  Only, nothing about sharing the game world or dungeon crawling defines an MMORPG.  It qualifies it as multiplayer and RPG, respectively.  Additional features are needed to qualify it as massively multiplayer.
    That's exactly why Kano saying above that Narius is also right shows the root of the ignorance problem: when some online game has features resembling those historically found in MMOs, which is happening more and more these days, some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon and call them an MMO despite the fact that there is nothing massively multiplayer about it. Some MMOs have LFG tools so other games that have LFG lobbies must also be MMOs. Some MMOs have non-persistent instances for 4 or 5 players... therefore other multiplayer games with non persistent instances for 4 or 5 players must also be an MMO. People don't talk much in MMOs and they maybe know 40 people in a given MMO they play... therefore games with 40 people max *like survival games) are also MMOs. Likewise something that IS an MMO doesn't stop being one when the population is low even if it feels that way to you. If you're in a forest and have all your atention focused on one tree, you're still in a fucking forest.

    I can see that some MP games provide an experience that is similar to that of some modern MMOs but that still doesn't make them MMOs. Not that it really makes much difference if you enjoy it: you can call it Bob if that works for you.

    But people like the OP, for some unfathomable reason want to call non-MMOs, MMOs as if that mattered. I guess he must hold the MMO descriptor in high regard and wants whatever he likes to be labeled that way. I can see a site wanting to get more clicks doing it but WhyTF would a player do it?

    If we were actually playing an MMO I see a lot of people in this thread dying from standing in stupid.


    So is Destiny an MMO?
    It's a game.
    ExcessionTheScavenger
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • FaunNoeFaunNoe Member UncommonPosts: 56
    klash2def....are you going to drag this bloody thread for miles? I mean....this is the world where youtube and twitch exist. Anytime you want to see the difference between destiny and a true mmo/mmorpg.....just go to one of those.  

    This is one of those things where we all know what the truth is but there are just enough similarities for someone to argue and make things more complicated/annoying than they need to be. 

    Destiny is not an mmo, get over it. 
    ExcessionTheScavengerJamesGoblin
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,734
    klash2def said:
    Lol, and yet you still choose willful ignorance because you seem unable to fathom that you might be wrong.

    You fell right back into the "it doesn't need to be massively multiplayer to be a massively multiplayer game!" which has already been exposed as an invalid argument.  By multiple people.

    But hey, you can keep flipping over this if you like.  It won't make you any more right.
    Bro please answer the question. You have not answered one question because you realize what I'm saying is right. I ask again good sir. What are these Additional MMO features you speak of that Destiny does not have? 
    The ability to complete game content while interacting with massive amounts of other players simultaneously in the game world.  Y'know, the "massively multiplayer" part.
    LOL Okay.. so some of my earlier questions that you wouldn't answer.

    Good Sir? Excuse me, would you mind explaining to me how many players at once have you seen on your screen while playing your favorite MMO?

    Sir could you name a raid that requires over 40 people?
    Is there anything in the game that you can do with over 40 people?

    What is the number of players playing in one instance requirement for a game to be considered Massive? 

    What is Massive? 100 People in a instance? That's massive to you? 

    I always thought Massive was knowing that I could run into some of the 1000's of people playing when I'm playing at any given time. I didn't know it was a specific number.. If it is a number whats the number? 
    ExcessionTheScavengerJamesGoblin
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,186
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:
    Annnnnnddddddd...  You're still arguing a red herring.  Noice!!
    annnnnnnnnnnddddd you are still missing the point. Noicer!!!
    Not at all.  You think forcing multiplayer on players and using dungeon crawling as group content qualifies Destiny to be an MMORPG.  Only, nothing about sharing the game world or dungeon crawling defines an MMORPG.  It qualifies it as multiplayer and RPG, respectively.  Additional features are needed to qualify it as massively multiplayer.
    That's exactly why Kano saying above that Narius is also right shows the root of the ignorance problem: when some online game has features resembling those historically found in MMOs, which is happening more and more these days, some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon and call them an MMO despite the fact that there is nothing massively multiplayer about it. Some MMOs have LFG tools so other games that have LFG lobbies must also be MMOs. Some MMOs have non-persistent instances for 4 or 5 players... therefore other multiplayer games with non persistent instances for 4 or 5 players must also be an MMO. People don't talk much in MMOs and they maybe know 40 people in a given MMO they play... therefore games with 40 people max *like survival games) are also MMOs. Likewise something that IS an MMO doesn't stop being one when the population is low even if it feels that way to you. If you're in a forest and have all your atention focused on one tree, you're still in a fucking forest.

    I can see that some MP games provide an experience that is similar to that of some modern MMOs but that still doesn't make them MMOs. Not that it really makes much difference if you enjoy it: you can call it Bob if that works for you.

    But people like the OP, for some unfathomable reason want to call non-MMOs, MMOs as if that mattered. I guess he must hold the MMO descriptor in high regard and wants whatever he likes to be labeled that way. I can see a site wanting to get more clicks doing it but WhyTF would a player do it?

    If we were actually playing an MMO I see a lot of people in this thread dying from standing in stupid.


    So is Destiny an MMO?
    It's a game.


    It is and if one person calls it an MMO and another doesnt, its still a game right?

    So whats the problem exactly?

    Is it not ok for anyone to stop calling an "MMO by design" no longer an "MMO in gameplay" when the population dips so low that you cant do MMO-content?

    heh
    If you want to call your car a boulder when it runs out of gas, be my guest. Personally I still think of it as a car and will go get some gas and put some in it... I wouldn't do that with a boulder.
    MadFrenchieCecropiaExcessionTheScavenger
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,966
    I once watched a person who worked for a major dictionary company give a lecture on definitions and what makes a word a word and what determines what a word means.  Basically she said that words and meanings are a popularity contest.  Whatever a majority of people believe a word to be, it becomes, and the same with it's meaning.  As society changes so do words and there meanings.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,734
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:

    MMO: Raids, Quests, Custom Avatar, Dungeons, Group Content, PVP, Open World, Access to 1000s people, ONLINE ONLY EXPERIENCE (( MMO NEEDS ALL OF THESE AT LEAST ))

    Except that you don't have access to thousands of people in Destiny like you do in an actual MMO.  I can't go anywhere in the world and meet up with people in Destiny and form a party to do a dungeon or raid like I can in an actual MMO.  I have to goto the Hub area and meet them there then go into the mission from the hub area.  At least that was the way it was last I played.  Admittedly it's been a while.
    Destiny you can join anyone's Fireteam from anywhere in the game space it was always that way. The hub is just a place in the game world. The function of pressing the start button and clicking "Add To Fire team" was always there man.
    That was not the point I was trying to make.  The point I was trying to make is that to do anything in Destiny you have to go from the hub into the mission/raid vs them having a fixed location in the world where thousands of people are freely roaming.
    Bro.. you do realize that in WoW you are being ported into a instance with a small group of people also. Its not 1000s of people running around freely EVER in any mmo at any time. 

    Also the same way you get to a raid or mission in wow is the same way you do in Destiny. You group up and go there and your team is ported to a instance. Its the same exact thing.
    ExcessionTheScavenger
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,734
    FaunNoe said:
    klash2def....are you going to drag this bloody thread for miles? I mean....this is the world where youtube and twitch exist. Anytime you want to see the difference between destiny and a true mmo/mmorpg.....just go to one of those.  

    This is one of those things where we all know what the truth is but there are just enough similarities for someone to argue and make things more complicated/annoying than they need to be. 

    Destiny is not an mmo, get over it. 
    You people amaze me with how entitled you talk.

    Destiny is a mmo now get over it. See how that works? I can do it too. 

    Sorry that its not your traditional MMO you are used to.. might want to take that up with Bungie not me, I'm only the observer. 
    ExcessionTheScavengerMaurgrim
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited September 2017
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:
    Lol, and yet you still choose willful ignorance because you seem unable to fathom that you might be wrong.

    You fell right back into the "it doesn't need to be massively multiplayer to be a massively multiplayer game!" which has already been exposed as an invalid argument.  By multiple people.

    But hey, you can keep flipping over this if you like.  It won't make you any more right.
    Bro please answer the question. You have not answered one question because you realize what I'm saying is right. I ask again good sir. What are these Additional MMO features you speak of that Destiny does not have? 
    The ability to complete game content while interacting with massive amounts of other players simultaneously in the game world.  Y'know, the "massively multiplayer" part.
    LOL Okay.. so some of my earlier questions that you wouldn't answer.

    Good Sir? Excuse me, would you mind explaining to me how many players at once have you seen on your screen while playing your favorite MMO?

    Sir could you name a raid that requires over 40 people?
    Is there anything in the game that you can do with over 40 people?

    What is the number of players playing in one instance requirement for a game to be considered Massive? 

    What is Massive? 100 People in a instance? That's massive to you? 

    I always thought Massive was knowing that I could run into some of the 1000's of people playing when I'm playing at any given time. I didn't know it was a specific number.. If it is a number whats the number? 
    Yes, there is.  Any of the open world events in GW2 will allow in excess of 40 people.  

    In DAoC, it was not unusual for RvR battles to play out around castles with 100+ players.  I enjoyed that, too.

    Tarren Mill battles commonly involved 40+ players when I played WoW.  You can still enjoy this if you log into a vanilla WoW private server.

    And those are just off the top of my head.  Next?

    EDIT- oh, the "magic number" that folks making your argument always try to use, quite fallaciously.  There is no magic number per se.  Destiny isn't even close, though.  As was pointed out before, CoD and Battlefield allow as many or more players the ability to interact in the game world created by the developers.

    klash2defExcessionTheScavengerJamesGoblin

    image
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,734
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:
    Annnnnnddddddd...  You're still arguing a red herring.  Noice!!
    annnnnnnnnnnddddd you are still missing the point. Noicer!!!
    Not at all.  You think forcing multiplayer on players and using dungeon crawling as group content qualifies Destiny to be an MMORPG.  Only, nothing about sharing the game world or dungeon crawling defines an MMORPG.  It qualifies it as multiplayer and RPG, respectively.  Additional features are needed to qualify it as massively multiplayer.
    That's exactly why Kano saying above that Narius is also right shows the root of the ignorance problem: when some online game has features resembling those historically found in MMOs, which is happening more and more these days, some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon and call them an MMO despite the fact that there is nothing massively multiplayer about it. Some MMOs have LFG tools so other games that have LFG lobbies must also be MMOs. Some MMOs have non-persistent instances for 4 or 5 players... therefore other multiplayer games with non persistent instances for 4 or 5 players must also be an MMO. People don't talk much in MMOs and they maybe know 40 people in a given MMO they play... therefore games with 40 people max *like survival games) are also MMOs. Likewise something that IS an MMO doesn't stop being one when the population is low even if it feels that way to you. If you're in a forest and have all your atention focused on one tree, you're still in a fucking forest.

    I can see that some MP games provide an experience that is similar to that of some modern MMOs but that still doesn't make them MMOs. Not that it really makes much difference if you enjoy it: you can call it Bob if that works for you.

    But people like the OP, for some unfathomable reason want to call non-MMOs, MMOs as if that mattered. I guess he must hold the MMO descriptor in high regard and wants whatever he likes to be labeled that way. I can see a site wanting to get more clicks doing it but WhyTF would a player do it?

    If we were actually playing an MMO I see a lot of people in this thread dying from standing in stupid.


    So is Destiny an MMO?
    It's a game.
    Destiny is a MMORPG-FPS game Yes.
    Stop resisting change and you will understand. You old heads kill me.. you cry and whine and bitch about "OH THE MMO IS DEAD!" "IT JUST NOT THE SAME!" "I WANT MY BLOCKY AVATAR BACK!"  The moment something new happens all I hear is More bitching and resisting. You cant please old MMO players and the MMO genre (YES) wont/CANT grow until the current way of thinking dies out.

    EMBRACE CHANGE, its good for you.
    ExcessionTheScavengerMaurgrimJamesGoblin
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,186
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:
    Annnnnnddddddd...  You're still arguing a red herring.  Noice!!
    annnnnnnnnnnddddd you are still missing the point. Noicer!!!
    Not at all.  You think forcing multiplayer on players and using dungeon crawling as group content qualifies Destiny to be an MMORPG.  Only, nothing about sharing the game world or dungeon crawling defines an MMORPG.  It qualifies it as multiplayer and RPG, respectively.  Additional features are needed to qualify it as massively multiplayer.
    That's exactly why Kano saying above that Narius is also right shows the root of the ignorance problem: when some online game has features resembling those historically found in MMOs, which is happening more and more these days, some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon and call them an MMO despite the fact that there is nothing massively multiplayer about it. Some MMOs have LFG tools so other games that have LFG lobbies must also be MMOs. Some MMOs have non-persistent instances for 4 or 5 players... therefore other multiplayer games with non persistent instances for 4 or 5 players must also be an MMO. People don't talk much in MMOs and they maybe know 40 people in a given MMO they play... therefore games with 40 people max *like survival games) are also MMOs. Likewise something that IS an MMO doesn't stop being one when the population is low even if it feels that way to you. If you're in a forest and have all your atention focused on one tree, you're still in a fucking forest.

    I can see that some MP games provide an experience that is similar to that of some modern MMOs but that still doesn't make them MMOs. Not that it really makes much difference if you enjoy it: you can call it Bob if that works for you.

    But people like the OP, for some unfathomable reason want to call non-MMOs, MMOs as if that mattered. I guess he must hold the MMO descriptor in high regard and wants whatever he likes to be labeled that way. I can see a site wanting to get more clicks doing it but WhyTF would a player do it?

    If we were actually playing an MMO I see a lot of people in this thread dying from standing in stupid.


    So is Destiny an MMO?
    It's a game.
    Destiny is a MMORPG-FPS game Yes.
    Stop resisting change and you will understand. You old heads kill me.. you cry and whine and bitch about "OH THE MMO IS DEAD!" "IT JUST NOT THE SAME!" "I WANT MY BLOCKY AVATAR BACK!"  The moment something new happens all I hear is More bitching and resisting. You cant please old MMO players and the MMO genre (YES) wont/CANT grow until the current way of thinking dies out.

    EMBRACE CHANGE, its good for you.
    Like I said, standing in stupid
    ExcessionTheScavenger
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:
    Annnnnnddddddd...  You're still arguing a red herring.  Noice!!
    annnnnnnnnnnddddd you are still missing the point. Noicer!!!
    Not at all.  You think forcing multiplayer on players and using dungeon crawling as group content qualifies Destiny to be an MMORPG.  Only, nothing about sharing the game world or dungeon crawling defines an MMORPG.  It qualifies it as multiplayer and RPG, respectively.  Additional features are needed to qualify it as massively multiplayer.
    That's exactly why Kano saying above that Narius is also right shows the root of the ignorance problem: when some online game has features resembling those historically found in MMOs, which is happening more and more these days, some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon and call them an MMO despite the fact that there is nothing massively multiplayer about it. Some MMOs have LFG tools so other games that have LFG lobbies must also be MMOs. Some MMOs have non-persistent instances for 4 or 5 players... therefore other multiplayer games with non persistent instances for 4 or 5 players must also be an MMO. People don't talk much in MMOs and they maybe know 40 people in a given MMO they play... therefore games with 40 people max *like survival games) are also MMOs. Likewise something that IS an MMO doesn't stop being one when the population is low even if it feels that way to you. If you're in a forest and have all your atention focused on one tree, you're still in a fucking forest.

    I can see that some MP games provide an experience that is similar to that of some modern MMOs but that still doesn't make them MMOs. Not that it really makes much difference if you enjoy it: you can call it Bob if that works for you.

    But people like the OP, for some unfathomable reason want to call non-MMOs, MMOs as if that mattered. I guess he must hold the MMO descriptor in high regard and wants whatever he likes to be labeled that way. I can see a site wanting to get more clicks doing it but WhyTF would a player do it?

    If we were actually playing an MMO I see a lot of people in this thread dying from standing in stupid.


    So is Destiny an MMO?
    It's a game.
    Destiny is a MMORPG-FPS game Yes.
    Stop resisting change and you will understand. You old heads kill me.. you cry and whine and bitch about "OH THE MMO IS DEAD!" "IT JUST NOT THE SAME!" "I WANT MY BLOCKY AVATAR BACK!"  The moment something new happens all I hear is More bitching and resisting. You cant please old MMO players and the MMO genre (YES) wont/CANT grow until the current way of thinking dies out.

    EMBRACE CHANGE, its good for you.
    Like I said, standing in stupid
    Standing?  I imagine he'll be drowning in it any second.
    ExcessionTheScavengerJamesGoblin

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited September 2017
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:
    Annnnnnddddddd...  You're still arguing a red herring.  Noice!!
    annnnnnnnnnnddddd you are still missing the point. Noicer!!!
    Not at all.  You think forcing multiplayer on players and using dungeon crawling as group content qualifies Destiny to be an MMORPG.  Only, nothing about sharing the game world or dungeon crawling defines an MMORPG.  It qualifies it as multiplayer and RPG, respectively.  Additional features are needed to qualify it as massively multiplayer.
    That's exactly why Kano saying above that Narius is also right shows the root of the ignorance problem: when some online game has features resembling those historically found in MMOs, which is happening more and more these days, some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon and call them an MMO despite the fact that there is nothing massively multiplayer about it. Some MMOs have LFG tools so other games that have LFG lobbies must also be MMOs. Some MMOs have non-persistent instances for 4 or 5 players... therefore other multiplayer games with non persistent instances for 4 or 5 players must also be an MMO. People don't talk much in MMOs and they maybe know 40 people in a given MMO they play... therefore games with 40 people max *like survival games) are also MMOs. Likewise something that IS an MMO doesn't stop being one when the population is low even if it feels that way to you. If you're in a forest and have all your atention focused on one tree, you're still in a fucking forest.

    I can see that some MP games provide an experience that is similar to that of some modern MMOs but that still doesn't make them MMOs. Not that it really makes much difference if you enjoy it: you can call it Bob if that works for you.

    But people like the OP, for some unfathomable reason want to call non-MMOs, MMOs as if that mattered. I guess he must hold the MMO descriptor in high regard and wants whatever he likes to be labeled that way. I can see a site wanting to get more clicks doing it but WhyTF would a player do it?

    If we were actually playing an MMO I see a lot of people in this thread dying from standing in stupid.


    So is Destiny an MMO?
    It's a game.


    It is and if one person calls it an MMO and another doesnt, its still a game right?

    So whats the problem exactly?

    Is it not ok for anyone to stop calling an "MMO by design" no longer an "MMO in gameplay" when the population dips so low that you cant do MMO-content?

    heh
    If you want to call your car a boulder when it runs out of gas, be my guest. Personally I still think of it as a car and will go get some gas and put some in it... I wouldn't do that with a boulder.


    I get where you are coming from, I do.

    I mean if something is designed to be X - then it should be called X

    I get that.


    I also think that if X loses 99% of what makes it X, people no longet calling it X is to be expected.

    I can see both sides
    And I get what you're saying, but a minivan with terrible headroom and leg space for 7 is still a minivan.
    TheScavenger

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,186
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:
    Iselin said:
    DMKano said:
    Iselin said:
    klash2def said:
    Annnnnnddddddd...  You're still arguing a red herring.  Noice!!
    annnnnnnnnnnddddd you are still missing the point. Noicer!!!
    Not at all.  You think forcing multiplayer on players and using dungeon crawling as group content qualifies Destiny to be an MMORPG.  Only, nothing about sharing the game world or dungeon crawling defines an MMORPG.  It qualifies it as multiplayer and RPG, respectively.  Additional features are needed to qualify it as massively multiplayer.
    That's exactly why Kano saying above that Narius is also right shows the root of the ignorance problem: when some online game has features resembling those historically found in MMOs, which is happening more and more these days, some people are quick to jump on the bandwagon and call them an MMO despite the fact that there is nothing massively multiplayer about it. Some MMOs have LFG tools so other games that have LFG lobbies must also be MMOs. Some MMOs have non-persistent instances for 4 or 5 players... therefore other multiplayer games with non persistent instances for 4 or 5 players must also be an MMO. People don't talk much in MMOs and they maybe know 40 people in a given MMO they play... therefore games with 40 people max *like survival games) are also MMOs. Likewise something that IS an MMO doesn't stop being one when the population is low even if it feels that way to you. If you're in a forest and have all your atention focused on one tree, you're still in a fucking forest.

    I can see that some MP games provide an experience that is similar to that of some modern MMOs but that still doesn't make them MMOs. Not that it really makes much difference if you enjoy it: you can call it Bob if that works for you.

    But people like the OP, for some unfathomable reason want to call non-MMOs, MMOs as if that mattered. I guess he must hold the MMO descriptor in high regard and wants whatever he likes to be labeled that way. I can see a site wanting to get more clicks doing it but WhyTF would a player do it?

    If we were actually playing an MMO I see a lot of people in this thread dying from standing in stupid.


    So is Destiny an MMO?
    It's a game.
    Destiny is a MMORPG-FPS game Yes.
    Stop resisting change and you will understand. You old heads kill me.. you cry and whine and bitch about "OH THE MMO IS DEAD!" "IT JUST NOT THE SAME!" "I WANT MY BLOCKY AVATAR BACK!"  The moment something new happens all I hear is More bitching and resisting. You cant please old MMO players and the MMO genre (YES) wont/CANT grow until the current way of thinking dies out.

    EMBRACE CHANGE, its good for you.
    Like I said, standing in stupid
    Standing?  I imagine he'll be drowning in it any second.
    Yeah he thinks it's an age issue now. Sort of reminds me of the DPS dying like flies in a dungeon PUG because they insist on standing in stupid despite all the brightly colored telegraphs who then blame the healer :)

    MadFrenchieExcessionJamesGoblin
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,734
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:
    Lol, and yet you still choose willful ignorance because you seem unable to fathom that you might be wrong.

    You fell right back into the "it doesn't need to be massively multiplayer to be a massively multiplayer game!" which has already been exposed as an invalid argument.  By multiple people.

    But hey, you can keep flipping over this if you like.  It won't make you any more right.
    Bro please answer the question. You have not answered one question because you realize what I'm saying is right. I ask again good sir. What are these Additional MMO features you speak of that Destiny does not have? 
    The ability to complete game content while interacting with massive amounts of other players simultaneously in the game world.  Y'know, the "massively multiplayer" part.
    LOL Okay.. so some of my earlier questions that you wouldn't answer.

    Good Sir? Excuse me, would you mind explaining to me how many players at once have you seen on your screen while playing your favorite MMO?

    Sir could you name a raid that requires over 40 people?
    Is there anything in the game that you can do with over 40 people?

    What is the number of players playing in one instance requirement for a game to be considered Massive? 

    What is Massive? 100 People in a instance? That's massive to you? 

    I always thought Massive was knowing that I could run into some of the 1000's of people playing when I'm playing at any given time. I didn't know it was a specific number.. If it is a number whats the number? 
    Yes, there is.  Any of the open world events in GW2 will allow in excess of 40 people.  

    In DAoC, it was not unusual for RvR battles to play out around castles with 100+ players.  I enjoyed that, too.

    Tarren Mill battles commonly involved 40+ players when I played WoW.  You can still enjoy this if you log into a vanilla WoW private server.

    And those are just off the top of my head.  Next?

    EDIT- oh, the "magic number" that folks making your argument always try to use, quite fallaciously.  There is no magic number per se.  Destiny isn't even close, though.  As was pointed out before, CoD and Battlefield allow as many or more players the ability to interact in the game world created by the developers.


    So then that mean Star Citizen, a game being called MMO, isnt REALLY a MMO since it can only 16 people at once in a instance? 
    ExcessionTheScavenger
    "PSA: We live in a multicultural world. Nobody is "forcing" diversity. Earth is already Diverse."

    "Everything that happens is a political act, and the only people that get to pretend otherwise are those privileged enough to not have politics impact them at all." ~Taliesin

    "What does it mean to be human? In a time when people's humanity is perennially called into question?"
    - Dr. Cornell West
     
    Currently: Games Audio Engineer
    You've heard what I've heard


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,186
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:
    Lol, and yet you still choose willful ignorance because you seem unable to fathom that you might be wrong.

    You fell right back into the "it doesn't need to be massively multiplayer to be a massively multiplayer game!" which has already been exposed as an invalid argument.  By multiple people.

    But hey, you can keep flipping over this if you like.  It won't make you any more right.
    Bro please answer the question. You have not answered one question because you realize what I'm saying is right. I ask again good sir. What are these Additional MMO features you speak of that Destiny does not have? 
    The ability to complete game content while interacting with massive amounts of other players simultaneously in the game world.  Y'know, the "massively multiplayer" part.
    LOL Okay.. so some of my earlier questions that you wouldn't answer.

    Good Sir? Excuse me, would you mind explaining to me how many players at once have you seen on your screen while playing your favorite MMO?

    Sir could you name a raid that requires over 40 people?
    Is there anything in the game that you can do with over 40 people?

    What is the number of players playing in one instance requirement for a game to be considered Massive? 

    What is Massive? 100 People in a instance? That's massive to you? 

    I always thought Massive was knowing that I could run into some of the 1000's of people playing when I'm playing at any given time. I didn't know it was a specific number.. If it is a number whats the number? 
    Yes, there is.  Any of the open world events in GW2 will allow in excess of 40 people.  

    In DAoC, it was not unusual for RvR battles to play out around castles with 100+ players.  I enjoyed that, too.

    Tarren Mill battles commonly involved 40+ players when I played WoW.  You can still enjoy this if you log into a vanilla WoW private server.

    And those are just off the top of my head.  Next?

    EDIT- oh, the "magic number" that folks making your argument always try to use, quite fallaciously.  There is no magic number per se.  Destiny isn't even close, though.  As was pointed out before, CoD and Battlefield allow as many or more players the ability to interact in the game world created by the developers.


    So then that mean Star Citizen, a game being called MMO, isnt REALLY a MMO since it can only 16 people at once in a instance? 
    I do have to ask... why is calling games an MMO so important to you? Are you only allowed to play MMOs or something?
    MadFrenchieJemAs666
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:
    klash2def said:
    Lol, and yet you still choose willful ignorance because you seem unable to fathom that you might be wrong.

    You fell right back into the "it doesn't need to be massively multiplayer to be a massively multiplayer game!" which has already been exposed as an invalid argument.  By multiple people.

    But hey, you can keep flipping over this if you like.  It won't make you any more right.
    Bro please answer the question. You have not answered one question because you realize what I'm saying is right. I ask again good sir. What are these Additional MMO features you speak of that Destiny does not have? 
    The ability to complete game content while interacting with massive amounts of other players simultaneously in the game world.  Y'know, the "massively multiplayer" part.
    LOL Okay.. so some of my earlier questions that you wouldn't answer.

    Good Sir? Excuse me, would you mind explaining to me how many players at once have you seen on your screen while playing your favorite MMO?

    Sir could you name a raid that requires over 40 people?
    Is there anything in the game that you can do with over 40 people?

    What is the number of players playing in one instance requirement for a game to be considered Massive? 

    What is Massive? 100 People in a instance? That's massive to you? 

    I always thought Massive was knowing that I could run into some of the 1000's of people playing when I'm playing at any given time. I didn't know it was a specific number.. If it is a number whats the number? 
    Yes, there is.  Any of the open world events in GW2 will allow in excess of 40 people.  

    In DAoC, it was not unusual for RvR battles to play out around castles with 100+ players.  I enjoyed that, too.

    Tarren Mill battles commonly involved 40+ players when I played WoW.  You can still enjoy this if you log into a vanilla WoW private server.

    And those are just off the top of my head.  Next?

    EDIT- oh, the "magic number" that folks making your argument always try to use, quite fallaciously.  There is no magic number per se.  Destiny isn't even close, though.  As was pointed out before, CoD and Battlefield allow as many or more players the ability to interact in the game world created by the developers.


    So then that mean Star Citizen, a game being called MMO, isnt REALLY a MMO since it can only 16 people at once in a instance? 
    If they limit the game world interaction to 16 players at a time tops, then no.  It's very similar in form, but nothing about 16 player interaction is massive.  That's an easy one, because we have an almost direct comparison to EVE, which allows many, many more than that to interact in a single, shared area of the game world.  Failing to distinguish between the two is confusing, because if a player wishes to participate in a Death Star level space battle, they won't get that in a 16 player SC, but can in EVE.

    From my understanding, that's not the case for SC, either.  The PU will host much more players in the same area.
    TheScavengerJamesGoblin

    image
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,313
    And funny thing nowhere on Destiny2 official site do they call it an MMO

      They do call it Single player /MultiPlayer /Cooperative

      even ATVI knows not to call it an MMORPG
    ExcessionTheScavengerGeneauxJamesGoblin
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,186
    Scorchien said:
    And funny thing nowhere on Destiny2 official site do they call it an MMO

      They do call it Single player /MultiPlayer /Cooperative

      even ATVI knows not to call it an MMORPG
    The hilarious thing is that a lot of developers these days, even ZOS with a legitimate MMO like ESO, want to avoid calling their games MMOs because their marketing dept is telling them the negative connotations of the label outweigh the positives... I guess klash2def didn't get the memo that he's supposed to say "shared world" now.
    ScorchienTheScavengerDeVoDeVoJamesGoblin
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
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