I just find it peculiar people judge how someone behaves in real life by their online actions within the context of gaming. Especially role playing games. Places where you take on any persona you want.
Do people judge Brad Pitts personality based on the roles he plays in films?
I have nothing against griefing if the game allows it.
It may not be an indicator of how a person behaves in real life. However, it may well be an indication how that person would behave if real life suddenly became equally accommodating to griefing as some online games.
The actions one takes when beyond consequence, especially when effectively anonymous, are often the most genuinely defining.
Role-playing could well be an exception to that, with the actions revealing the adopted persona instead of the actual, but I encounter precious little role-playing in online games of any genre, so I think that would by far be the exception.
That's why I find it unusual people would judge them, there are consequences in the real world.
"They're obviously dicks in this imaginary world of no consequences I've created because they act like dicks in this virtual world where consequences don't exist." isn't a good argument on how people behave in the real world, where consequences do exist.
Same goes for civil players. I wouldn't judge them to necessarily be civil in this made world of yours. Or in real life.
It may not be an indicator of how a person behaves in real life. However, it may well be an indication how that person would behave if real life suddenly became equally accommodating to griefing as some online games.
So sometimes people are dicks. What's new?
There is no need to tolerate them online. Just hit the quit button, or choose a game that they can't diminish your fun. Or if you like MOBAs, be a dick to them.
It may not be an indicator of how a person behaves in real life. However, it may well be an indication how that person would behave if real life suddenly became equally accommodating to griefing as some online games.
So sometimes people are dicks. What's new?
There is no need to tolerate them online. Just hit the quit button, or choose a game that they can't diminish your fun. Or if you like MOBAs, be a dick to them.
Like I've said a million times, some people think it's someone else's job to ensure they live in a perpetual unicorns and rainbows world.
Ultimately it's the person's choice to continue playing a game, respond to a forum post, or get upset about a particular word. Personal responsibility. Some need to learn what that is.
Also, some people are just outrage junkies. There's really no help for them.
Like I've said a million times, some people think it's someone else's job to ensure they live in a perpetual unicorns and rainbows world.
Ultimately it's the person's choice to continue playing a game, respond to a forum post, or get upset about a particular word. Personal responsibility. Some need to learn what that is.
Also, some people are just outrage junkies. There's really no help for them.
It is a free world. Is there a problem for you if they think like that?
And if devs do indeed heed their call, more power to them. Is there something wrong if a dev tries to make money off whiney delicate wall flowers? It is a free market, you know.
While I think flybynight is a griefer of the highest order, I don't see how what he said has anything to do with women in particular, and I'm a woman. More like... he's insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him because he thinks griefing is a good thing.
Good thing the majority of people don't agree with him.
How can you say I'm a griefer of the highest order out the clear blue? What evidence do you have to make that claim? Do you know me? Have we ever played any games together? Have I stated anywhere that I "grief" people? NO.
This is the type of mentality that I don't understand, and why I passed the remark I did. Some other genius called OWPVP games "the armpit" of MMOs and I took exception to that, and said:
Okay, if we're going to be dumb; If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
From there I was called "sexist" and accused of treating women wrong, and NOW the coupe de grace I'm magically a griefer who thinks griefing is a good thing. Where the hell did you read all that?
There is a segment of D type personality people on MMORPG.com who continually go around insulting people who play OWPVP games calling us "sociopaths", "sexist", "griefers", and try to correlate in game behavior with life. Every single OWPVP game thread they are there. Then when they receive a justified response they go into the fetal position play the victim and spew more wild accusations trying to amass mobs with pitchforks and torches as they cowardly duck off behind the them.
TL;DR There is absolutely griefing that happens in games and developers should build their games taking the lowest common denominator into consideration at all times. This DOES NOT give license to thin skinned people with victim personality disorder to blanket project their short comings or past trauma on others.
So what am I now after I've said all this? A rapist? Terrorist? Spare me.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
While I think flybynight is a griefer of the highest order, I don't see how what he said has anything to do with women in particular, and I'm a woman. More like... he's insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him because he thinks griefing is a good thing.
Good thing the majority of people don't agree with him.
How can you say I'm a griefer of the highest order out the clear blue? What evidence do you have to make that claim? Do you know me? Have we ever played any games together? Have I stated anywhere that I "grief" people? NO.
This is the type of mentality that I don't understand, and why I passed the remark I did. Some other genius called OWPVP games "the armpit" of MMOs and I took exception to that, and said:
Okay, if we're going to be dumb; If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
From there I was called "sexist" and accused of treating women wrong, and NOW the coupe de grace I'm magically a griefer who thinks griefing is a good thing. Where the hell did you read all that?
There is a segment of D type personality people on MMORPG.com who continually go around insulting people who play OWPVP games calling us "sociopaths", "sexist", "griefers", and try to correlate in game behavior with life. Every single OWPVP game thread they are there. Then when they receive a justified response they go into the fetal position play the victim and spew more wild accusations trying to amass mobs with pitchforks and torches as they cowardly duck off behind the them.
TL;DR There is absolutely griefing that happens in games and developers should build their games taking the lowest common denominator into consideration at all times. This DOES NOT give license to thin skinned people with victim personality disorder to blanket project their short comings or past trauma on others.
So what am I now after I've said all this? A rapist? Terrorist? Spare me.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Like I've said a million times, some people think it's someone else's job to ensure they live in a perpetual unicorns and rainbows world.
Ultimately it's the person's choice to continue playing a game, respond to a forum post, or get upset about a particular word. Personal responsibility. Some need to learn what that is.
Also, some people are just outrage junkies. There's really no help for them.
It is a free world. Is there a problem for you if they think like that?
And if devs do indeed heed their call, more power to them. Is there something wrong if a dev tries to make money off whiney delicate wall flowers? It is a free market, you know.
Yes there is something wrong with it. The loudest are almost always not the largest and when devs listen to them they alienate the majority of their player base and the game dies.
We've seen it time and time again. Is this behavior new to you? First day playing MMOs?
I'm just glad some devs are getting wise and ignoring these whiners. All this screeching is just a side effect of entitlement babies not getting what they want.
Yes there is something wrong with it. The loudest are almost always not the largest and when devs listen to them they alienate the majority of their player base and the game dies.
We've seen it time and time again. Is this behavior new to you? First day playing MMOs?
I'm just glad some devs are getting wise and ignoring these whiners. All this screeching is just a side effect of entitlement babies not getting what they want.
They are a disease.
Name a single successful game that makes no efforts to allow carebears to avoid PvP and takes no steps to minimize griefing.
Screeching carebears aren't the problem. PvP extremists are the problem. One side of which is activist carebears with an allergy to anyone PvPing anywhere in their game. The other is griefers with an allergy to anyone avoiding PvP anywhere in their game.
PvPing in a PvP game is not griefing. What is wrong with you people?
The only times I've ever felt like I was being "griefed" was in PvE games where jackholes would tag every monster I tried to kill, preventing my from XPing. Without the ability to kill them, there was nothing I could do to keep them from following me around, so my option was basically to quit playing or give them free loot and XP.
Is it griefing when someone dominates the Monopoly board? No. Is it griefing when you lose at checkers? No.
Griefing is a myth. Its winning or losing. Grow a pair.
That is an over simplification of the topic. Yes, in PvP there is usually a winner and a loser and most people that play PvP games are aware of this and can take a beating without batting an eye.
While this topic is highly subjective, I think people can agree that there is a difference, if not in mechanics at least in the spirit of PvP vs Griefing.
Your final line "grow a pair' is awesome. I wonder how you would take it if Conor McGregor decided to beat the shit out of you every time you stepped out your front door. Obviously, there is nothing you can do about it (don't say other wise, you know it's true) beyond calling the police to come and keep him off you. However, if the cops won't come, what then, sit there looking out the window wishing you could go get a cupcake? Hoping this beast gets bored and leaves? Yeah, nope, the door opens you get a beating and back to the window with you.
Same concept here, some people can take a PvP loss, but when it comes to corpse camping or other shenanigans that keep you from being able to even play the game, it's just grief. Some games are designed with this in mind and they make it pretty well known before you log in. Especially in the case of Eve...if you do not realize that it's going to happen then that is your issue.
Anyway, it's not as simple as grow a pair, nor is it anything like a board game, that is an asinine comparison.
Well your comparison isnt much better , Actually silly , to compare real life to game first ..
Second if CM was to attempt that (or anyone for that matter ) some of the recourse i can take , first would be opening the door and letting my 2 140+ lb Rhodesian Ridgebacks tear him a new asshole , if that didnt work(which is laughable) i could shoot him ...just for ex..
Your anaolgy doesnt work as you cant take real life recourse and action into the equation of a game now can you ...
Now in the game , you dont have options like that to fall back on , if it IS that bad , So log out or log a different toon or play a different game ...
But
corpse camping doesnt happen all that often anymore (there are few games you can even do it in) , matter a fact near impossible anymore ...
Well first, you say my real life comparison is silly...yet you go on to provide a real life comparison. Hypocrite much?
2nd we are drawing a distinction between a video game and RL and yes it is a valid comparison I use. Taking RL to the game world you would be much lower level than Connor as are your non-attack pooches, ergo all would get one shot, and most likely (as in real life) you would miss with your gun and CM would still wreck your face.
The comparison stands.
As to your last statement. Read your own words! You admit you have been griefed so bad you changed toons or games altogether. Yet you go on to say it rarely happens. Which is it? Does griefing exist or not? Pick a stance and go with it.
If you had not been griefed then why have a plan for avoiding it? You are looking pretty silly about now.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
I miss the days of UO when the players "took care of" a problem child on their own.
These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
@SomethingUnusual - you say people do not comprehend you, yet you have no idea what is even being discussed. At least you stopped with the asinine examples. No one is discussing winning/losing at pvp. We all know it happens and most people that play PvP games deal with it and move along.
And then, your buddy in commiseration @postlarval goes on to ADMIT that there is griefing (problem children) as you did in your most recent post (get others involved and zerg them).
So, which is it? Either there is griefing or there is not. Stop talking in circles and try to make a valid point. Or are we just trying to troll again boys?
I would guess neither of you actually play PvP games. Just my opinion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I just find it peculiar people judge how someone behaves in real life by their online actions within the context of gaming. Especially role playing games. Places where you take on any persona you want.
Do people judge Brad Pitts personality based on the roles he plays in films?
I have nothing against griefing if the game allows it.
It may not be an indicator of how a person behaves in real life. However, it may well be an indication how that person would behave if real life suddenly became equally accommodating to griefing as some online games.
The actions one takes when beyond consequence, especially when effectively anonymous, are often the most genuinely defining.
Role-playing could well be an exception to that, with the actions revealing the adopted persona instead of the actual, but I encounter precious little role-playing in online games of any genre, so I think that would by far be the exception.
That's why I find it unusual people would judge them, there are consequences in the real world.
"They're obviously dicks in this imaginary world of no consequences I've created because they act like dicks in this virtual world where consequences don't exist." isn't a good argument on how people behave in the real world, where consequences do exist.
Same goes for civil players. I wouldn't judge them to necessarily be civil in this made world of yours. Or in real life.
I find myself agreeing with your point of view on this topic. While I made the mistake of making an RL reference I do not believe that people that act like douchebags in a game are necessarily that way irl. First, real world repercussions do exist, and people being altruistic in a game does not mean they will give you 500 dollars IRL just because they think you are a good person. Normally.
The judging comes from frustration in my opinion. People want to do what they want to do and when prevented from doing that they get frustrated (usually to the enjoyment of the person causing the issue). From that, these types of discussion occur. One side defends griefing (in this case I do not believe anyone defending it really believes their own argument) the other side against. To be clear, I do not think OP was having this type of discussion, I think it just went there as opinions vary widely on the topic and then, of course, a salting of trolls as well.
I have been a griefer, and I have been griefed, I play a lot of PvP games and it comes with the territory. Over the years I have learned to just walk away from it when I am being griefed, and I don't really find messing with people all that fun, so I was not a very committed griefer.
More to your point though, I am pretty anti-social in games I tend to like to stick to myself although when asked I will group as I do see the benefit and I usually am far more successful in a group. IRL I easily make friends, am outgoing and generally not bad (I hope) to be around. So my online persona is quite different than my IRL reality.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Like I've said a million times, some people think it's someone else's job to ensure they live in a perpetual unicorns and rainbows world.
Ultimately it's the person's choice to continue playing a game, respond to a forum post, or get upset about a particular word. Personal responsibility. Some need to learn what that is.
Also, some people are just outrage junkies. There's really no help for them.
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
I miss the days of UO when the players "took care of" a problem child on their own.
These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
@SomethingUnusual - you say people do not comprehend you, yet you have no idea what is even being discussed. At least you stopped with the asinine examples. No one is discussing winning/losing at pvp. We all know it happens and most people that play PvP games deal with it and move along.
And then, your buddy in commiseration @postlarval goes on to ADMIT that there is griefing (problem children) as you did in your most recent post (get others involved and zerg them).
So, which is it? Either there is griefing or there is not. Stop talking in circles and try to make a valid point. Or are we just trying to troll again boys?
I would guess neither of you actually play PvP games. Just my opinion.
I play Albion Online as my main game. There is plenty of griefing. It is what it is.
Besides, I never said there was no griefing. My complaint is the victim mentality you people have who say you want to PvP, and then whine about it if you can't hold you own. It's really total bullshit. Face it, you're a "I want others to think I PvP" poser, and nothing more.
If you want to PvP, then man up. Otherwise, go play one of the many "unicorns and rainbows" games with PvP that provide no consequence glorified dueling (GW2, WoW, ESO, etc.). You seem more suited for those games. Mommy developer can bail you out as much as you like when you start crying about the unfairness of it all.
While I think flybynight is a griefer of the highest order, I don't see how what he said has anything to do with women in particular, and I'm a woman. More like... he's insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him because he thinks griefing is a good thing.
Good thing the majority of people don't agree with him.
How can you say I'm a griefer of the highest order out the clear blue? What evidence do you have to make that claim? Do you know me? Have we ever played any games together? Have I stated anywhere that I "grief" people? NO.
This is the type of mentality that I don't understand, and why I passed the remark I did. Some other genius called OWPVP games "the armpit" of MMOs and I took exception to that, and said:
Okay, if we're going to be dumb; If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
From there I was called "sexist" and accused of treating women wrong, and NOW the coupe de grace I'm magically a griefer who thinks griefing is a good thing. Where the hell did you read all that?
There is a segment of D type personality people on MMORPG.com who continually go around insulting people who play OWPVP games calling us "sociopaths", "sexist", "griefers", and try to correlate in game behavior with life. Every single OWPVP game thread they are there. Then when they receive a justified response they go into the fetal position play the victim and spew more wild accusations trying to amass mobs with pitchforks and torches as they cowardly duck off behind the them.
TL;DR There is absolutely griefing that happens in games and developers should build their games taking the lowest common denominator into consideration at all times. This DOES NOT give license to thin skinned people with victim personality disorder to blanket project their short comings or past trauma on others.
So what am I now after I've said all this? A rapist? Terrorist? Spare me.
Hard to understand?
@Kyleran What are you having difficulty understanding?
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
I miss the days of UO when the players "took care of" a problem child on their own.
These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
@SomethingUnusual - you say people do not comprehend you, yet you have no idea what is even being discussed. At least you stopped with the asinine examples. No one is discussing winning/losing at pvp. We all know it happens and most people that play PvP games deal with it and move along.
And then, your buddy in commiseration @postlarval goes on to ADMIT that there is griefing (problem children) as you did in your most recent post (get others involved and zerg them).
So, which is it? Either there is griefing or there is not. Stop talking in circles and try to make a valid point. Or are we just trying to troll again boys?
I would guess neither of you actually play PvP games. Just my opinion.
Buddy? We argue all the time... And generally disagree with eachother depending on context.
As for a valid point. The whole conversation is subjective. But I'll try...
If a player is breaking the rules (Doing something against Terms of Service, or exploiting game mechanics) report them -- complaining on a forum won't help -- and let customer service sort it out. If a player runs by and kills you, that isn't griefing, it's the point of the game. The goal, the objective, the premise.
An example in a nutshell: EvE. The goal of the game is territory, resource (players are resources too.), and diplomatic control. When the entire point of a game is such -- by any means necessary -- it's difficult to blanket term griefing to the players killing others. As it's the point of the game. The same goes for many other examples, namely full-pvp games. It's within the confines of the rules.
My point, if the rules aren't broken, game on. When someone breaks and bends them, then I have a problem.
While I think flybynight is a griefer of the highest order, I don't see how what he said has anything to do with women in particular, and I'm a woman. More like... he's insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him because he thinks griefing is a good thing.
Good thing the majority of people don't agree with him.
How can you say I'm a griefer of the highest order out the clear blue? What evidence do you have to make that claim? Do you know me? Have we ever played any games together? Have I stated anywhere that I "grief" people? NO.
This is the type of mentality that I don't understand, and why I passed the remark I did. Some other genius called OWPVP games "the armpit" of MMOs and I took exception to that, and said:
Okay, if we're going to be dumb; If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
From there I was called "sexist" and accused of treating women wrong, and NOW the coupe de grace I'm magically a griefer who thinks griefing is a good thing. Where the hell did you read all that?
There is a segment of D type personality people on MMORPG.com who continually go around insulting people who play OWPVP games calling us "sociopaths", "sexist", "griefers", and try to correlate in game behavior with life. Every single OWPVP game thread they are there. Then when they receive a justified response they go into the fetal position play the victim and spew more wild accusations trying to amass mobs with pitchforks and torches as they cowardly duck off behind the them.
TL;DR There is absolutely griefing that happens in games and developers should build their games taking the lowest common denominator into consideration at all times. This DOES NOT give license to thin skinned people with victim personality disorder to blanket project their short comings or past trauma on others.
So what am I now after I've said all this? A rapist? Terrorist? Spare me.
Hard to understand?
@Kyleran What are you having difficulty understanding?
Whether you are a griefer, support griefing in games, appear overly concerned about other people's opinions about you, or not or if you like games with open world PVP or not.
You are all over the place. Back on topic, what games, if any do feel support griefing, and what specifically do you consider griefing?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
I miss the days of UO when the players "took care of" a problem child on their own.
These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
@SomethingUnusual - you say people do not comprehend you, yet you have no idea what is even being discussed. At least you stopped with the asinine examples. No one is discussing winning/losing at pvp. We all know it happens and most people that play PvP games deal with it and move along.
And then, your buddy in commiseration @postlarval goes on to ADMIT that there is griefing (problem children) as you did in your most recent post (get others involved and zerg them).
So, which is it? Either there is griefing or there is not. Stop talking in circles and try to make a valid point. Or are we just trying to troll again boys?
I would guess neither of you actually play PvP games. Just my opinion.
I play Albion Online as my main game. There is plenty of griefing. It is what it is.
Besides, I never said there was no griefing. My complaint is the victim mentality you people have who say you want to PvP, and then whine about it if you can't hold you own. It's really total bullshit. Face it, you're a "I want others to think I PvP" poser, and nothing more.
If you want to PvP, then man up. Otherwise, go play one of the many "unicorns and rainbows" games with PvP that provide no consequence glorified dueling (GW2, WoW, ESO, etc.). You seem more suited for those games. Mommy developer can bail you out as much as you like when you start crying about the unfairness of it all.
lol and you have the audacity to call others "Kiddies"
1. You assume I am talking about myself, I am not, I am discussing a point of view, maturely, which you are obviously incapable of.
2. You implied no griefing with your statements, but of course, you are a famous troll so I expected you to change position on the topic.
3. If you want PvP then man up. So much ridiculous in one small sentence. You imply that not participating in PvP makes you less of a man? lol or that getting frustrated about losing at pvp somehow is also not manly.
4. I am in no way a poser, I just have the ability to empathize, and I also feel you are projecting here as you seem to want people here to think you are some sort of hard ass in PvP and RL, judging by your statements I am pretty convinced you are not in either case.
The reason I doubt very much that you participate in PvP is that fact that you can not empathize with people that get griefed. You have no idea what it is like to be on the side of the griefed, and as anyone that PvP's can tell you, you will at some point lose, and that can sometimes lead to the other side taking advantage of your weakened state (speaking to toons here, while I feel you are a weak person irl, I am not discussing that at this point). Now to further clarify, I am also not speaking to Lobby shooters or any other type of controlled environment where eventually the beating will end. I am speaking to Open World MMO PvP where there is no stopping point beyond players deciding it is over.
Ok, hopefully, you can comprehend all of that. Moving on, I agree with your statement concerning "get over it" as far as PvP goes as I said above you are going to lose at some point when you PvP and from my experience (which is obviously vastly greater than yours) most people tend to do just that, get over it and move along. However, there are, again in my experience, people that take the win too far or only prey on toons weaker than themselves. While ganking the occasional lowbie is funny, staying in the area for the sole purpose of just ruining the game for them is not cool. I also agree that enlisting the help of your fellow player (on either side of the coin, after all this is how big fights occur) is a good thing to do, I also (because I actually PvP) realize that this is not always available.
So, my point being Griefing does happen, it is bullshit, you are not a PvPer (nor is your buddy), and you make no sense, you flip flop more than Ross Perot on the topic, and you obviously can't make an argument without resorting to playground insults which makes you, at best, irrelevant.
End of story.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Ok, hopefully, you can comprehend all of that. Moving on, I agree with your statement concerning "get over it" as far as PvP goes as I said above you are going to lose at some point when you PvP and from my experience (which is obviously vastly greater than yours) most people tend to do just that, get over it and move along. However, there are, again in my experience, people that take the win too far or only prey on toons weaker than themselves. While ganking the occasional lowbie is funny, staying in the area for the sole purpose of just ruining the game for them is not cool. I also agree that enlisting the help of your fellow player (on either side of the coin, after all this is how big fights occur) is a good thing to do, I also (because I actually PvP) realize that this is not always available.
This is precisely the difference between engaging in PvP and griefing a player.
Just because the game doesn't literallyprevent you from taking a certain action, it doesn't mean you're not still an asshole or a griefer for choosing to repeatedly engage in a behavior that prevents others from participating in game content when you achieve nothing in return except your rocks off at the thought of preventing another player from enjoying the game.
If I'm competing in a PvP environment where I've got a legitimate chance to defend myself and remove the aggressor through skillful play, it's not griefing. I lose a lot in Overwatch, yet I've never claimed any opponent was ever griefing me.
Ok, hopefully, you can comprehend all of that. Moving on, I agree with your statement concerning "get over it" as far as PvP goes as I said above you are going to lose at some point when you PvP and from my experience (which is obviously vastly greater than yours) most people tend to do just that, get over it and move along. However, there are, again in my experience, people that take the win too far or only prey on toons weaker than themselves. While ganking the occasional lowbie is funny, staying in the area for the sole purpose of just ruining the game for them is not cool. I also agree that enlisting the help of your fellow player (on either side of the coin, after all this is how big fights occur) is a good thing to do, I also (because I actually PvP) realize that this is not always available.
This is precisely the difference between engaging in PvP and griefing a player.
Just because the game doesn't literallyprevent you from taking a certain action, it doesn't mean you're not still an asshole or a griefer for choosing to repeatedly engage in a behavior that prevents others from participating in game content when you achieve nothing in return except your rocks off at the thought of preventing another player from enjoying the game.
If I'm competing in a PvP environment where I've got a legitimate chance to defend myself and remove the aggressor through skillful play, it's not griefing. I lose a lot in Overwatch, yet I've never claimed any opponent was ever griefing me.
If people don't get what an MMO is, I don't really expect them to understand the difference between PVP and griefing.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
"They're obviously dicks in this imaginary world of no consequences I've created because they act like dicks in this virtual world where consequences don't exist." isn't a good argument on how people behave in the real world, where consequences do exist.
Same goes for civil players. I wouldn't judge them to necessarily be civil in this made world of yours. Or in real life.
There is no need to tolerate them online. Just hit the quit button, or choose a game that they can't diminish your fun. Or if you like MOBAs, be a dick to them.
Ultimately it's the person's choice to continue playing a game, respond to a forum post, or get upset about a particular word. Personal responsibility. Some need to learn what that is.
Also, some people are just outrage junkies. There's really no help for them.
~~ postlarval ~~
And if devs do indeed heed their call, more power to them. Is there something wrong if a dev tries to make money off whiney delicate wall flowers? It is a free market, you know.
This is the type of mentality that I don't understand, and why I passed the remark I did. Some other genius called OWPVP games "the armpit" of MMOs and I took exception to that, and said:
If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
From there I was called "sexist" and accused of treating women wrong, and NOW the coupe de grace I'm magically a griefer who thinks griefing is a good thing. Where the hell did you read all that?
There is a segment of D type personality people on MMORPG.com who continually go around insulting people who play OWPVP games calling us "sociopaths", "sexist", "griefers", and try to correlate in game behavior with life. Every single OWPVP game thread they are there. Then when they receive a justified response they go into the fetal position play the victim and spew more wild accusations trying to amass mobs with pitchforks and torches as they cowardly duck off behind the them.
TL;DR
There is absolutely griefing that happens in games and developers should build their games taking the lowest common denominator into consideration at all times. This DOES NOT give license to thin skinned people with victim personality disorder to blanket project their short comings or past trauma on others.
So what am I now after I've said all this? A rapist? Terrorist? Spare me.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We've seen it time and time again. Is this behavior new to you? First day playing MMOs?
I'm just glad some devs are getting wise and ignoring these whiners. All this screeching is just a side effect of entitlement babies not getting what they want.
They are a disease.
~~ postlarval ~~
Screeching carebears aren't the problem. PvP extremists are the problem. One side of which is activist carebears with an allergy to anyone PvPing anywhere in their game. The other is griefers with an allergy to anyone avoiding PvP anywhere in their game.
The only times I've ever felt like I was being "griefed" was in PvE games where jackholes would tag every monster I tried to kill, preventing my from XPing. Without the ability to kill them, there was nothing I could do to keep them from following me around, so my option was basically to quit playing or give them free loot and XP.
2nd we are drawing a distinction between a video game and RL and yes it is a valid comparison I use. Taking RL to the game world you would be much lower level than Connor as are your non-attack pooches, ergo all would get one shot, and most likely (as in real life) you would miss with your gun and CM would still wreck your face.
The comparison stands.
As to your last statement. Read your own words! You admit you have been griefed so bad you changed toons or games altogether. Yet you go on to say it rarely happens. Which is it? Does griefing exist or not? Pick a stance and go with it.
If you had not been griefed then why have a plan for avoiding it? You are looking pretty silly about now.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
And then, your buddy in commiseration @postlarval goes on to ADMIT that there is griefing (problem children) as you did in your most recent post (get others involved and zerg them).
So, which is it? Either there is griefing or there is not. Stop talking in circles and try to make a valid point. Or are we just trying to troll again boys?
I would guess neither of you actually play PvP games. Just my opinion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
The judging comes from frustration in my opinion. People want to do what they want to do and when prevented from doing that they get frustrated (usually to the enjoyment of the person causing the issue). From that, these types of discussion occur. One side defends griefing (in this case I do not believe anyone defending it really believes their own argument) the other side against. To be clear, I do not think OP was having this type of discussion, I think it just went there as opinions vary widely on the topic and then, of course, a salting of trolls as well.
I have been a griefer, and I have been griefed, I play a lot of PvP games and it comes with the territory. Over the years I have learned to just walk away from it when I am being griefed, and I don't really find messing with people all that fun, so I was not a very committed griefer.
More to your point though, I am pretty anti-social in games I tend to like to stick to myself although when asked I will group as I do see the benefit and I usually am far more successful in a group. IRL I easily make friends, am outgoing and generally not bad (I hope) to be around. So my online persona is quite different than my IRL reality.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Besides, I never said there was no griefing. My complaint is the victim mentality you people have who say you want to PvP, and then whine about it if you can't hold you own. It's really total bullshit. Face it, you're a "I want others to think I PvP" poser, and nothing more.
If you want to PvP, then man up. Otherwise, go play one of the many "unicorns and rainbows" games with PvP that provide no consequence glorified dueling (GW2, WoW, ESO, etc.). You seem more suited for those games. Mommy developer can bail you out as much as you like when you start crying about the unfairness of it all.
~~ postlarval ~~
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As for a valid point. The whole conversation is subjective. But I'll try...
If a player is breaking the rules (Doing something against Terms of Service, or exploiting game mechanics) report them -- complaining on a forum won't help -- and let customer service sort it out. If a player runs by and kills you, that isn't griefing, it's the point of the game. The goal, the objective, the premise.
An example in a nutshell: EvE. The goal of the game is territory, resource (players are resources too.), and diplomatic control. When the entire point of a game is such -- by any means necessary -- it's difficult to blanket term griefing to the players killing others. As it's the point of the game. The same goes for many other examples, namely full-pvp games. It's within the confines of the rules.
My point, if the rules aren't broken, game on. When someone breaks and bends them, then I have a problem.
~~ postlarval ~~
You are all over the place. Back on topic, what games, if any do feel support griefing, and what specifically do you consider griefing?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
~~ postlarval ~~
1. You assume I am talking about myself, I am not, I am discussing a point of view, maturely, which you are obviously incapable of.
2. You implied no griefing with your statements, but of course, you are a famous troll so I expected you to change position on the topic.
3. If you want PvP then man up. So much ridiculous in one small sentence. You imply that not participating in PvP makes you less of a man? lol or that getting frustrated about losing at pvp somehow is also not manly.
4. I am in no way a poser, I just have the ability to empathize, and I also feel you are projecting here as you seem to want people here to think you are some sort of hard ass in PvP and RL, judging by your statements I am pretty convinced you are not in either case.
The reason I doubt very much that you participate in PvP is that fact that you can not empathize with people that get griefed. You have no idea what it is like to be on the side of the griefed, and as anyone that PvP's can tell you, you will at some point lose, and that can sometimes lead to the other side taking advantage of your weakened state (speaking to toons here, while I feel you are a weak person irl, I am not discussing that at this point). Now to further clarify, I am also not speaking to Lobby shooters or any other type of controlled environment where eventually the beating will end. I am speaking to Open World MMO PvP where there is no stopping point beyond players deciding it is over.
Ok, hopefully, you can comprehend all of that. Moving on, I agree with your statement concerning "get over it" as far as PvP goes as I said above you are going to lose at some point when you PvP and from my experience (which is obviously vastly greater than yours) most people tend to do just that, get over it and move along. However, there are, again in my experience, people that take the win too far or only prey on toons weaker than themselves. While ganking the occasional lowbie is funny, staying in the area for the sole purpose of just ruining the game for them is not cool. I also agree that enlisting the help of your fellow player (on either side of the coin, after all this is how big fights occur) is a good thing to do, I also (because I actually PvP) realize that this is not always available.
So, my point being Griefing does happen, it is bullshit, you are not a PvPer (nor is your buddy), and you make no sense, you flip flop more than Ross Perot on the topic, and you obviously can't make an argument without resorting to playground insults which makes you, at best, irrelevant.
End of story.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Just because the game doesn't literally prevent you from taking a certain action, it doesn't mean you're not still an asshole or a griefer for choosing to repeatedly engage in a behavior that prevents others from participating in game content when you achieve nothing in return except your rocks off at the thought of preventing another player from enjoying the game.
If I'm competing in a PvP environment where I've got a legitimate chance to defend myself and remove the aggressor through skillful play, it's not griefing. I lose a lot in Overwatch, yet I've never claimed any opponent was ever griefing me.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED