Well the studios producing those other games don't go round blowing their trumpet about BDSSE, best 1st person shooter and all that bullcrap. CIG can't manage to get shit working with their 400+ staff and $155 million so they can't really be held in the same light as small studios with their meagre budgets.
That doesn't change what the game is. What defines pretty much the genres of the game.
When friends ask me what type of game SC is, I don't reply BDSSE or best FPS evah, I just simply answer one Space Sim, FPS MMO.
So what you're trying to say is they're ATTEMPTING to do something groundbreaking, but have yet presented a working MMO product (MVP, alpha, whatever) that presents anything groundbreaking?
Because it is in development.
For anyone who backed SC, who backed Ashes of Creation, Crowfall and so forth, the games do not exist until they do, it's the nature of it, same was for Elite Dangerous that also pitched since KS things that were not done before. One can't discredit AoC, SC or Crowfal as not MMO's just because their MMO setup is still to be presented/delivered.
SC is one MMO type of game as SQ42 is a SP Campaign type of game. The game being developed here, is one Space Sim, FPS MMO, as stated here.
You're not simply stating it's an MMO. Kefo was specifically responding to you comparing what CIG has planned with the features of games already released in an attempt to state the game is groundbreaking. Which is fine, but I think everyone is about fed up with the promises KS developers keep making, and are about ready to see a developer fulfill those promises. Enough of that, honestly. As my coach would say: I don't wanna hear about the pain, just show me the baby.
The networking is a big issue in a game built completely around online multiplayer, specifically, of the "massive" kind. Using another adage: the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and we cannot eat any groundbreaking pudding anywhere (not just with SC) at this time.
I NEVER give high fives to writers who act like journalists.
I want truthful responses,i want straight to the point no bullshit.I can't stand the term "professionalism" to me that is a bunch of bull that means "deception""hiding or avoiding specific truths" "a FAKE person",not the type of read i want to see.
The aim of this article is actually very important.The whole idea behind the crowd funding was that specific ideas were to be crowd funded AND they would be transparent about it.
Well they sure seem gung-ho forward in telling us about meaningless dribble often using tons of various numbers but really never saying much but when comes to the most important part of the crowd funding,they want to sort of "HIDE IT",that seems pretty lame to me.
There is always a big picture,an agenda but it is very hard to explain the big picture without several paragraphs and that just confuses or loses people.Point being is it always leaves the door open for excuses or to counter accurate statements with some sort of fake nonsense.The bottom line is they want to stop talking about meeting goals,they just want your money with LESS transparency and less responsibility for meeting deadlines.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
MadFrenchie said: You're not simply stating it's an MMO. Kefo was specifically responding to you comparing what CIG has planned with the features of games already released in an attempt to state the game is groundbreaking. Which is fine, but I think everyone is about fed up with the promises KS developers keep making, and are about ready to see a developer fulfill those promises. Enough of that, honestly. As my coach would say: I don't wanna hear about the pain, just show me the baby.
The networking is a big issue in a game built completely around online multiplayer, specifically, of the "massive" kind. Using another adage: the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and we cannot eat any groundbreaking pudding anywhere (not just with SC) at this time.
I'm saying that the game that is being developed here is something that wasn't done before, not only what it is planned to be but what they already show progress on. SC as 3.0 nears by, is no longer one mirage, that thing we had to imagine back then while walking around in our Hangars, or before that when there was nothing.
Only in 3.0 being able to drive from space to Delamar's surface, and land on the sizeable Levski landing zone, under such quality level and scale, is already one of those quite unique experiences, at least for me. So I stand my opinion it's a game experience that was never done before, especially when it cumulates with everything else available, even without the MMO scale to support it yet, being still the normal MP with more persistent gameplay.
Right... Which, whether you want to admit it or not, is still a possibility for SC.
Battlefield 1 is great, but there's a reason it has a player cap. As such, Battlefield 1 brings nothing "unseen" to the MMO genre. It's not providing an MMO experience. Until it does, it is about as groundbreaking to the MMO genre as the SC alphas sans any massively multiplayer features being yet implemented.
When GW2 was announced years before it released and they started talking the game, I said the same thing: Something that was never done before. They had one different approach on things that as it released especially the dynamic events driven game-world with cut questing was something that indeed was never done in the genre before.
That was what they were developing, not what they had released, just as SC. So I'm not going to pretend like you and @Kefo that SC is not one MMO under development because the Alpha release doesn't have the necessary network yet.
It's ridiculous for me to stand by that, that's like saying Ashes of Creation is NOT one MMO under development because it's not released yet! No no, I'm taking your logic even further: Ashes of Creation is Vaporware, is nothing, because it's not released yet!
This silly argument only exists because SC has one Alpha released; if SC like most MMO's did not release one Alpha early access phase you wouldn't even bring this up.
Do you want a more relevant example? When Elite Dangerous released its Alpha, it had NO multiplayer, its whole network setup was still being developed.
You're either not understanding what I and others are saying or you are being intentionally obtuse.
SC is under development and that's fine but when you and others come here and start comparing features that at best are in dev testing or at worst still an idea on paper to completed games then there's a problem and a disconnect from reality.
I NEVER give high fives to writers who act like journalists.
I want truthful responses,i want straight to the point no bullshit.I can't stand the term "professionalism" to me that is a bunch of bull that means "deception""hiding or avoiding specific truths" "a FAKE person",not the type of read i want to see.
The aim of this article is actually very important.The whole idea behind the crowd funding was that specific ideas were to be crowd funded AND they would be transparent about it.
Well they sure seem gung-ho forward in telling us about meaningless dribble often using tons of various numbers but really never saying much but when comes to the most important part of the crowd funding,they want to sort of "HIDE IT",that seems pretty lame to me.
There is always a big picture,an agenda but it is very hard to explain the big picture without several paragraphs and that just confuses or loses people.Point being is it always leaves the door open for excuses or to counter accurate statements with some sort of fake nonsense.The bottom line is they want to stop talking about meeting goals,they just want your money with LESS transparency and less responsibility for meeting deadlines.
This right here. Supporters are always quick to point out that they release massive amounts of information and because of that they are the most transparent dev ever! But if you break it down and you remove all the bullshit and just cut down to the heart of the matter you would probably have a paragraph of decent information.
CR has somehow convinced people that quantity of information is more important than the quality of the information.
and I'm sure you can queue the fans coming to refute that point by telling me I don't pay attention or I don't understand game dev
You're either not understanding what I and others are saying or you are being intentionally obtuse.
SC is under development and that's fine but when you and others come here and start comparing features that at best are in dev testing or at worst still an idea on paper to completed games then there's a problem and a disconnect from reality.
The 3.0 update accounting with what's already released is what I mind, and that is not "ideas in the paper" or things that are in concept, there's already a feature-list pretty much completed and undergoing bug-fixing, polish and optimization of many features that were already showcased and detailed. So no Kefo, no disconnect from reality, neither unrealistic expectations.
I stand the game SC is, is one unique experience only from what is currently available on what is such a limited fraction of it, a view that this next update greatly iterates upon.
If you disagree, then whelp, just do so that and move on.
Star Citizen has already developed groundbreaking technology and more will come. Perhaps you must follow the project closely to see it, but it's there. I'm very excited about things to come in that field.
You're either not understanding what I and others are saying or you are being intentionally obtuse.
SC is under development and that's fine but when you and others come here and start comparing features that at best are in dev testing or at worst still an idea on paper to completed games then there's a problem and a disconnect from reality.
The 3.0 update accounting with what's already released is what I mind, and that is not "ideas in the paper" or things that are in concept, there's already a feature-list pretty much completed and undergoing bug-fixing, polish and optimization of many features that were already showcased and detailed. So no Kefo, no disconnect from reality, neither unrealistic expectations.
I stand the game SC is, is one unique experience only from what is currently available on what is such a limited fraction of it, a view that this next update greatly iterates upon.
If you disagree, then whelp, just do so that and move on.
Well 2 things
1) 3.0 isn't released yet so you comparing to what you've seen and that they are bug fixing is crazy cause it's not like CR or any game dev would use videos, screenshots or hype to make something seem better then it is right?
2) I can disagree and I believe I just did but Im going to stick around in my thread and politely argue against anything I disagree with.
Star Citizen has already developed groundbreaking technology and more will come. Perhaps you must follow the project closely to see it, but it's there. I'm very excited about things to come in that field.
That didn't take long. See 2 posts up from yours and my last point lol
1) 3.0 isn't released yet so you comparing to what you've seen and that they are bug fixing is crazy cause it's not like CR or any game dev would use videos, screenshots or hype to make something seem better then it is right?
2) I can disagree and I believe I just did but Im going to stick around in my thread and politely argue against anything I disagree with.
2) You like beating dead horses until exhaustion so I'm just dropping out because otherwise, I'll be discussing with you the same thing for the next 10000000 pages in a perfectly useless circular discussion.
You're either not understanding what I and others are saying or you are being intentionally obtuse.
SC is under development and that's fine but when you and others come here and start comparing features that at best are in dev testing or at worst still an idea on paper to completed games then there's a problem and a disconnect from reality.
The 3.0 update accounting with what's already released is what I mind, and that is not "ideas in the paper" or things that are in concept, there's already a feature-list pretty much completed and undergoing bug-fixing, polish and optimization of many features that were already showcased and detailed. So no Kefo, no disconnect from reality, neither unrealistic expectations.
I stand the game SC is, is one unique experience only from what is currently available on what is such a limited fraction of it, a view that this next update greatly iterates upon.
If you disagree, then whelp, just do so that and move on.
How can you advise anyone to just disagree and move on?
You spend more time than anyone disagreeing, and sticking around to do so over and over again.
You talk about 3.0, as though everything in it is already available for backers to play, when it is not.
That is the disconnect from reality @Kefo is pointing out.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
1) 3.0 isn't released yet so you comparing to what you've seen and that they are bug fixing is crazy cause it's not like CR or any game dev would use videos, screenshots or hype to make something seem better then it is right?
2) I can disagree and I believe I just did but Im going to stick around in my thread and politely argue against anything I disagree with.
2) You like beating dead horses until exhaustion so I'm just dropping out because otherwise, I'll be discussing with you the same thing for the next 10000000 pages in a perfectly useless circular discussion.
So does that link lead you to some download link that lets you play the 3.0 build? Cause if not then im not entirely sure why you posted it since it doesn't help your side at all.
Its funny how you engage with me until you feel you're backed into a corner and cant actually refute what I'm saying so you make some passive aggressive remark and say you're dropping out
Its funny how you engage with me until you feel you're backed into a corner and cant actually refute what I'm saying so you make some passive aggressive remark and say you're dropping out
I'm not backed in any corner, I stand what I think of it, you don't like you so you feel the need to instigate and bait it further. You are stating YOUR opinion, I am stating MY opinion. That's all, you can deal with it, or not.
Its funny how you engage with me until you feel you're backed into a corner and cant actually refute what I'm saying so you make some passive aggressive remark and say you're dropping out
I'm not backed in any corner, I stand what I think of it, you don't like you so you feel the need to instigate and bait it further. You are stating YOUR opinion, I am stating MY opinion. That's all, you can deal with it, or not.
I thought you weren't going to engage me anymore?
And the difference between what I say and what you say is that mine is based on what the backers can currently play. What you say is based on hopes and dreams because again 3.0 isn't out for backers to play yet and you are basing it on what CR is promising and he's had a stellar track record for delivering on those promises right?
Kefo said: I thought you weren't going to engage me anymore?
And the difference between what I say and what you say is that mine is based on what the backers can currently play. What you say is based on hopes and dreams because again 3.0 isn't out for backers to play yet and you are basing it on what CR is promising and he's had a stellar track record for delivering on those promises right?
You say hopes and dreams, I say already completed and detailed features, it's not about plans and hopes, it's about what was coded, what was implemented, what was already shown and is now undergoing bug-fixing, a process the weekly production report is maintaining people updated with.
This is more and more like vaporware every day. Which is a shame because I put money into it. But now they don't even have a schedule? When WoW releases an expansion, it releases that same day they say it will be out. They don't go "ah its pushed back 6 months". Every company should have a schedule of when things are made, or the money ends up being wasted with no goals. And that is one of the biggest things in SC that anti-fans have, is how much money seems to be spent on Star Citizen without much to actually show for it.
Hope game turns out well, cause it looks amazing. But, not looking good as more and more is revealed. Seems like a management issue of some kind possibly.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Kefo said: I thought you weren't going to engage me anymore?
And the difference between what I say and what you say is that mine is based on what the backers can currently play. What you say is based on hopes and dreams because again 3.0 isn't out for backers to play yet and you are basing it on what CR is promising and he's had a stellar track record for delivering on those promises right?
You say hopes and dreams, I say already completed and detailed features, it's not about plans and hopes, it's about what was coded, what was implemented, what was already shown and is now undergoing bug-fixing, a process the weekly production report is maintaining people updated with.
And again can you tell me with 100% certainty that everything that is promised for 3.0 will make it into 3.0? Can you guarantee it will all work as hyped and promised? Would the masses agree that it is fun and engaging and better then anything currently out on the market?
If it's not a resounding yes to all of those then I would say you're basing your expectations on hopes and dreams and not on actual gameplay that you can play.
And again can you tell me with 100% certainty that everything that is promised for 3.0 will make it into 3.0? Can you guarantee it will all work as hyped and promised? Would the masses agree that it is fun and engaging and better then anything currently out on the market?
If it's not a resounding yes to all of those then I would say you're basing your expectations on hopes and dreams and not on actual gameplay that you can play.
What is reported completed and finished for 3.0, yes.
Also you are going with silly manipulation, it's not about it's all fun and amazing and better than anything else, it's about something new, one game experience that you won't find anywhere else, under alpha stage. So don't twist things to sugarcoat your argument.
Well the studios producing those other games don't go round blowing their trumpet about BDSSE, best 1st person shooter and all that bullcrap. CIG can't manage to get shit working with their 400+ staff and $155 million so they can't really be held in the same light as small studios with their meagre budgets.
SC also isn't an MMO either, I don't know why people keep calling it that. What is it, 12 people max per instance? Pretty small "Massively Multiplayer Online" game.
The definition of vaporware doesn't fit on Star Citizen (from WIkipedia):
In the computer industry, vaporware (Brit. vapourware) is a product [...] that is announced to the general public but is never actually manufactured nor officially cancelled. [...] Vaporware is often announced months or years before its purported release, with few details about its development being released.
When WoW releases an expansion, it releases that same day they say it will be out.
Then you don't hear about it until it's announced and released. With Star Citizen you are invited to follow the development and schedule up close. But not everyone can handle that.
Seems like a management issue of some kind possibly.
Nah, I think it's the gamers who are unused to this kind of open development. It's the same in other projects but the difference is you don't hear about it.
Comments
When friends ask me what type of game SC is, I don't reply BDSSE or best FPS evah, I just simply answer one Space Sim, FPS MMO.
The networking is a big issue in a game built completely around online multiplayer, specifically, of the "massive" kind. Using another adage: the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and we cannot eat any groundbreaking pudding anywhere (not just with SC) at this time.
I want truthful responses,i want straight to the point no bullshit.I can't stand the term "professionalism" to me that is a bunch of bull that means "deception""hiding or avoiding specific truths" "a FAKE person",not the type of read i want to see.
The aim of this article is actually very important.The whole idea behind the crowd funding was that specific ideas were to be crowd funded AND they would be transparent about it.
Well they sure seem gung-ho forward in telling us about meaningless dribble often using tons of various numbers but really never saying much but when comes to the most important part of the crowd funding,they want to sort of "HIDE IT",that seems pretty lame to me.
There is always a big picture,an agenda but it is very hard to explain the big picture without several paragraphs and that just confuses or loses people.Point being is it always leaves the door open for excuses or to counter accurate statements with some sort of fake nonsense.The bottom line is they want to stop talking about meeting goals,they just want your money with LESS transparency and less responsibility for meeting deadlines.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Only in 3.0 being able to drive from space to Delamar's surface, and land on the sizeable Levski landing zone, under such quality level and scale, is already one of those quite unique experiences, at least for me. So I stand my opinion it's a game experience that was never done before, especially when it cumulates with everything else available, even without the MMO scale to support it yet, being still the normal MP with more persistent gameplay.
SC is under development and that's fine but when you and others come here and start comparing features that at best are in dev testing or at worst still an idea on paper to completed games then there's a problem and a disconnect from reality.
CR has somehow convinced people that quantity of information is more important than the quality of the information.
and I'm sure you can queue the fans coming to refute that point by telling me I don't pay attention or I don't understand game dev
I stand the game SC is, is one unique experience only from what is currently available on what is such a limited fraction of it, a view that this next update greatly iterates upon.
If you disagree, then whelp, just do so that and move on.
Viking
1) 3.0 isn't released yet so you comparing to what you've seen and that they are bug fixing is crazy cause it's not like CR or any game dev would use videos, screenshots or hype to make something seem better then it is right?
2) I can disagree and I believe I just did but Im going to stick around in my thread and politely argue against anything I disagree with.
2) You like beating dead horses until exhaustion so I'm just dropping out because otherwise, I'll be discussing with you the same thing for the next 10000000 pages in a perfectly useless circular discussion.
You spend more time than anyone disagreeing, and sticking around to do so over and over again.
You talk about 3.0, as though everything in it is already available for backers to play, when it is not.
That is the disconnect from reality @Kefo is pointing out.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
I talk the feature-set of 3.0 and what is already known and seen, that does not require any reality disconnect to figure out.
not entirely sure why you posted it since it doesn't help your side at all.
Its funny how you engage with me until you feel you're backed into a corner and cant actually refute what I'm saying so you make some passive aggressive remark and say you're dropping out
And the difference between what I say and what you say is that mine is based on what the backers can currently play. What you say is based on hopes and dreams because again 3.0 isn't out for backers to play yet and you are basing it on what CR is promising and he's had a stellar track record for delivering on those promises right?
Viking
Hope game turns out well, cause it looks amazing. But, not looking good as more and more is revealed. Seems like a management issue of some kind possibly.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
If it's not a resounding yes to all of those then I would say you're basing your expectations on hopes and dreams and not on actual gameplay that you can play.
Also you are going with silly manipulation, it's not about it's all fun and amazing and better than anything else, it's about something new, one game experience that you won't find anywhere else, under alpha stage. So don't twist things to sugarcoat your argument.
Vaporware is often announced months or years before its purported release, with few details about its development being released.
Then you don't hear about it until it's announced and released. With Star Citizen you are invited to follow the development and schedule up close. But not everyone can handle that.
Nah, I think it's the gamers who are unused to this kind of open development. It's the same in other projects but the difference is you don't hear about it.
Viking