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why pve is better

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  • StoneRosesStoneRoses Member RarePosts: 1,656
    too easy pve is bad. see gw2, its a good game, spvp/wvw is fun but pve is very easy... look at ragnarok online, pve is fun because its more dangerous...some map has mvp that can come to u..win everything get bored 
    GW2 PVE wasn't always easy. They nerfed the shit out of it and somehow it still is painfully hard for folks.

    Flame Legion Shaman use to be hard at level 5. Now it dies in a matter of seconds



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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Loke666 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Maybe they should, instead of standing around like brainless statues.

    I'd actually like to see a MMO where the AI was a real threat for players to overcome,  but just as with unbalanced PVP I doubt many would enjoy it.

    People generally expect to win, especially in PVE,  take that away and my guess is few will play.

    Although...modern survival games appear to somewhat rely on this design, and are quite popular, so perhaps I'm underestimating the demand.
    The hard thing is to get the AI just right, you don't want it to be better then human players after all, just similar or just below.

    I think enough people would enjoy it, not as many as enjoyed Wow of course but still enough to make a pretty good profit if the rest of the game is good.
    Do you remember the Guild Wars patch where henchie AI was outdoing players and mobs? You could take henchies out and they would faceroll the content for you. Alesia could keep a party healed.

    Gaile Gray made some statement or the other that basically mirrors your post.
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  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Torval said:
    Loke666 said:
    The hard thing is to get the AI just right, you don't want it to be better then human players after all, just similar or just below.

    I think enough people would enjoy it, not as many as enjoyed Wow of course but still enough to make a pretty good profit if the rest of the game is good.
    Do you remember the Guild Wars patch where henchie AI was outdoing players and mobs? You could take henchies out and they would faceroll the content for you. Alesia could keep a party healed.

    Gaile Gray made some statement or the other that basically mirrors your post.
    Hmm, I remember it getting better but I probably quit before it got truly good.

    I do know that beating Shiro with just henchies (no other players and no heroes) was way easier in the last Faction mission though. 
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    This thread should be titled "Why what I like is better than what you like".  It's bullshit, just like that concept.
    Not really. 

    Since the majority of the players prefer PvE that does not mean PvE is the superior playstyle but that MMORPGs generally do PvE a lot better then PvP. And there are several times as many PvErs as PvPers even if the PvE people actually PvP in other genres like FPS games.

    And if we can accept that we can discuss how to improve it because it needs improvement.
    cameltosis
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Loke666 said:


    And if we can accept that we can discuss how to improve it because it needs improvement.
    Don't think "we" will accept anything on this forum ... unless "we" here means you and few friends of yours. 
  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,501
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

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  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,200
    Thane said:
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    PvP in MMO's is pointless and just arena combat....boring.  
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Horusra said:
    Thane said:
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    PvP in MMO's is pointless and just arena combat....boring.  
    boring to you .. fun for millions. Otherwise why would MOBAs be so popular? Just arena combat, right? They don't even pretend to need a world, or progression.

    In fact, arena combat is the ONLY gameplay left in MOBAs. So apparently the other parts are not needed for fun for millions MOBA fans. 
    Maurgrim
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Horusra said:
    Thane said:
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    PvP in MMO's is pointless and just arena combat....boring.  
    boring to you .. fun for millions. Otherwise why would MOBAs be so popular? Just arena combat, right? They don't even pretend to need a world, or progression.

    In fact, arena combat is the ONLY gameplay left in MOBAs. So apparently the other parts are not needed for fun for millions MOBA fans. 
    What happens in MOBA's however is largely irrelevant, it's like saying Players in the WoW battlegrounds should not be allowed to respawn when killed because in CS:GO you only have one life per game, there just isn't any crossover making it a ridiculous argument.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,200
    Horusra said:
    Thane said:
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    PvP in MMO's is pointless and just arena combat....boring.  
    boring to you .. fun for millions. Otherwise why would MOBAs be so popular? Just arena combat, right? They don't even pretend to need a world, or progression.

    In fact, arena combat is the ONLY gameplay left in MOBAs. So apparently the other parts are not needed for fun for millions MOBA fans. 

    there is no point to progression in PvP games.  In the end it is not different than playing an MOBA.  No story, no world, just one guy with a club endlessly beating another guy with a club with no point.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Horusra said:
    Horusra said:
    Thane said:
    pvp is better bc you don't have scripted enemies of which you can nearly forsee their next actions (or in WoW's and other MMO's way.... have a bloody bar tell you what happens when)

    *discuss*

    PvP in MMO's is pointless and just arena combat....boring.  
    boring to you .. fun for millions. Otherwise why would MOBAs be so popular? Just arena combat, right? They don't even pretend to need a world, or progression.

    In fact, arena combat is the ONLY gameplay left in MOBAs. So apparently the other parts are not needed for fun for millions MOBA fans. 

    there is no point to progression in PvP games.  In the end it is not different than playing an MOBA.  No story, no world, just one guy with a club endlessly beating another guy with a club with no point.
    isn't it funny that a game with no point (LoL) has more active players and make more money than those who have a point?

    That ties into question of may be what is pointless is MMO, because the point is what players find fun, not some hypothetical objects that have to fit in some stories or lore. You may as well say any sports has no point. 
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Loke666 said:
    Not really. 

    Since the majority of the players prefer PvE that does not mean PvE is the superior playstyle but that MMORPGs generally do PvE a lot better then PvP. And there are several times as many PvErs as PvPers even if the PvE people actually PvP in other genres like FPS games.

    And if we can accept that we can discuss how to improve it because it needs improvement.
    What?  No, it's bullshit.  Some people like PvE, some people like PvP.  Neither one is objectively "better".  It's personal preference.
    Yes, but if people like PvP in other genres but not MMOs that tells us something, particularly if it is a huge group doing that. How many Wow players do only PvE in Wow but play Overwatch?

    PvP can be awesomely fun but few MMOs have had good PvP. The ones that actually had good PvP (like DaoC and Guildwars) actually have way higher percentage of PvP players while games cateering for PvE like Wow have a small percentage.

    Loke666 said:

    And if we can accept that we can discuss how to improve it because it needs improvement.
    Don't think "we" will accept anything on this forum ... unless "we" here means you and few friends of yours. 
    I assume that we could agree so far at least, how to improve it is another matter.

    But then again, feel free to disagree if you think MMO PvP already is perfect and can't be improve.
    StoneRoses
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 10,146
    Rarley do I check the names of discussion creators, but when I do it's because the OP is made of classic material like this one.

    OP I tip my hat. I salute you. You just 2 shot the entire mmorpg.com pve community.
  • nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
    i create more friend in pvp than pve
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Loke666 said:

    I assume that we could agree so far at least, how to improve it is another matter.

    But then again, feel free to disagree if you think MMO PvP already is perfect and can't be improve.

    It is also possible that MMO PvP is NOT perfect, but it cannot be improved, and should be killed. No one says every flawed implementation can be improved. Some should just die. 
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Loke666 said:
    I assume that we could agree so far at least, how to improve it is another matter.

    But then again, feel free to disagree if you think MMO PvP already is perfect and can't be improve.

    It is also possible that MMO PvP is NOT perfect, but it cannot be improved, and should be killed. No one says every flawed implementation can be improved. Some should just die. 
    All flawed implementation can be improved or they wouldn't be flawed. If they should is another matter.

     In MMOs case I rather have it improved myself. There are many things you can do in a massive game that can't be done anywhere else. DaoC certainly proved the concept of good RvR even if it got nowhere near the potential.

    But I notice that you don't actually state your own opinion, just saying some vague generalization. What do you actually think yourself?  Playing the devils advocate and asking leading questions can be useful at times but not really here.
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 8,156
    Loke666 said:

    PvP can be awesomely fun but few MMOs have had good PvP. The ones that actually had good PvP (like DaoC and Guildwars) actually have way higher percentage of PvP players while games cateering for PvE like Wow have a small percentage.
    There are still games using the DAoC and/or GW model, 3 factions instanced PvP. GW2 and ESO for instance. They are just out there for anyone to play.

    Don't underestimate the WoW PvP crowd either, there's a LOT of them.
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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Loke666 said:

    All flawed implementation can be improved or they wouldn't be flawed. If they should is another matter.


    Not if the core design is bad. If you scrap the core design, it is not an improvement, it is a revision. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,774
    Loke666 said:
     Playing the devils advocate and asking leading questions can be useful at times but not really here.
    "useful" is in the eye of the beholder. Plus, there is little that is useful on an internet forum. It is not like posts here affect what devs do.

    And playing the devil's advocate is a lot of fun. Isn't that why we are here?
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