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Making Crafting Interesting

13

Comments

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited July 2017
    Everything I stated still applies. Even in games that allow it the majority the doesn't do it.
    the reason I jumped and this happens DAILY. People make an assertion like 'games today have no complex crafting' or 'everyone is creating alts' or 'whats a good solution to the class problem' or 'why are all these games casinos' and yet for me DAILY..I dont experience ANY of it. and no, I am not a special snowflake there are many others like me. So when I see things like that it makes the back of my hair stand on end. Its like I am living in a different universe then the rest of you

    and to make my jaw drop is most of the things I read are complaints yet the people who complain have zero intrest in exploring the universe I live in that has none of those things they complain about..

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,590
    Nothing you are stating is discounting what I am stating.

    I'm not sure who you are addressing now because even though you quote me you are not actually addressing my points.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Nothing you are stating is discounting what I am stating.

    I'm not sure who you are addressing now because even though you quote me you are not actually addressing my points.
    you will survive this, just carry on and stop replying

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,590
    So once again you having an argument with yourself because you are not actually addressing the points.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,380
    Cut down on clutter. I hate when I have to fill all my bags with tons of junk to prepare for crafting, and then fill them with even more junk when I start crafting. There should be some kind of individual player workshop where you can craft and also store all your crafted materials and items. 
    Sovrath

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    So once again you having an argument with yourself because you are not actually addressing the points.
    dude..read my signature that has been like it is for almost a year now.

    rule 1: if you reply you are participating.

    stop replying
    cameltosis

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited July 2017
    Amathe said:
    Cut down on clutter. I hate when I have to fill all my bags with tons of junk to prepare for crafting, and then fill them with even more junk when I start crafting. There should be some kind of individual player workshop where you can craft and also store all your crafted materials and items. 
    like empyrion galactic survival and its factory.
    Starter factory you have to manually make all the componets etc. but the larger one you just put all your materials in it and whatever you have the materials to make it will highlight as being able to make.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,590
    Why would I stop replying I'm obviously participating. You are quoting me and commenting on things I am not stating.

    You should stop.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Why would I stop replying I'm obviously participating. You are quoting me and commenting on things I am not stating.

    You should stop.
    now your just derailing your own point!

    stop
    replying

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,590
    edited July 2017
    You should stop. You are being rediculous. My comment was in direct response to Mendel's post talking about limiting the number of Crafters n itself to prevent everyone from crafting everything in order to ensure there would be buyers.

    I stated even in games that allow it the Majority doesn't craft everything.

    Your points after that were completely irrelevant to that discussion.

    Take your own advice and stop.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    You should stop. You are being rediculous. My comment was in direct response to Mendel's post talking about limiting the number of Crafters n itself to prevent everyone from crafting everything in order to ensure there would be buyers.

    I stated even in games that allow it the Majority doesn't craft everything.

    Your points after that were completely irrelevant to that discussion.

    Take your own advice and stop.

    you are now 1 of three people on my ignore list, and I know its not the first time you have been on my ignore list. congrats on taking a small single observation by me and then completely derailing your own point more then my one observarion ever could have dreamed of. bye

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,590
    edited July 2017
    My point still stands. You didn't even address it.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    edited July 2017
    • Crafting, gathering always seem way more engaging for me when they are mini-games with leveling. 
    • I also like when developers are mindful of repetition and do things to make sure the players aren't in a monotonous cycle. Let me create my short cuts and efficiency in game so I won't be tempted to do so outside of the game.
    • Appearance customization can really spice up crafting as well
    • I believe in forcing specializations to promote economy diversity
    • After reading other responses, I like the idea of creating components to create a bigger thing. Shouldn't be more than 4 layers or it starts to get silly IMO. Raw -> Processed -> Component -> Thing
    • Keep RNGesus worship to a minimum
    That's all I got so far.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    • Crafting, gathering always seem way more engaging for me when they are mini-games with leveling. 
    • I also like when developers are mindful of repetition and do things to make sure the players aren't in a monotonous cycle. Let me create my short cuts and efficiency in game so I won't be tempted to do so outside of the game.
    • Appearance customization can really spice up crafting as well
    • I believe in forcing specializations to promote economy diversity
    • After reading other responses, I like the idea of creating components to create a bigger thing. Shouldn't be more than 4 layers or it starts to get silly IMO. Raw -> Processed -> Component -> Thing
    • Keep RNGesus worship to a minimum
    That's all I got so far.
    in EQ2 there is about 10 base things of use you can make, and for each new tier you get the same 10 useful items but with different stats. 

    A game like Wurm has hundreds of items all useful including boats you can actually get into an sail, catapults. traps, workstations and there a many games that have crafting like this.

    I think if people would get off the tit that crafting is just about making gloves, they would be less inclided to look at minigames as some form of solution to their boredom. 

    I left EQ2 as a crafter not because I wanted better mingames, but because i wanted to craft something like a catapult that the entire guild could help out on getting the materials and would require multiple people to use. THAT is an interesting crafting system

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,590
    edited July 2017
    Actually eq2 has thousands of visually different items and different stats.

    Carpentry alone has several thousand visually different items.

    Wurm only has about a dozen visually different weapons. The difference between the others are stats exactly what you accuse eq2 of having.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,175
    edited July 2017
    laxie said:
    Why can't you have both?
    I thought people would craft items and then use those as commodities to sell on the market?
    Because they are very different economies.

    Crafter is skilled professional, but those won't feed the masses.

    In order to have thriving market, you need a robust economy but such economies do not come from crafting, they come from mass production.

    laxie
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    SEANMCAD said:
    • Crafting, gathering always seem way more engaging for me when they are mini-games with leveling. 
    • I also like when developers are mindful of repetition and do things to make sure the players aren't in a monotonous cycle. Let me create my short cuts and efficiency in game so I won't be tempted to do so outside of the game.
    • Appearance customization can really spice up crafting as well
    • I believe in forcing specializations to promote economy diversity
    • After reading other responses, I like the idea of creating components to create a bigger thing. Shouldn't be more than 4 layers or it starts to get silly IMO. Raw -> Processed -> Component -> Thing
    • Keep RNGesus worship to a minimum
    That's all I got so far.
    in EQ2 there is about 10 base things of use you can make, and for each new tier you get the same 10 useful items but with different stats. 

    A game like Wurm has hundreds of items all useful including boats you can actually get into an sail, catapults. traps, workstations and there a many games that have crafting like this.

    I think if people would get off the tit that crafting is just about making gloves, they would be less inclided to look at minigames as some form of solution to their boredom. 

    I left EQ2 as a crafter not because I wanted better mingames, but because i wanted to craft something like a catapult that the entire guild could help out on getting the materials and would require multiple people to use. THAT is an interesting crafting system

    What do titties have to do with anything though? Where did anyone say crafting is all about making gloves?

    Minigames are fun why do you speak of them like they're a negative thing, or some less than? Less than what? I'm playing a game, it's wrong to play a game within a game to play the game? Explain.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    SEANMCAD said:
    • Crafting, gathering always seem way more engaging for me when they are mini-games with leveling. 
    • I also like when developers are mindful of repetition and do things to make sure the players aren't in a monotonous cycle. Let me create my short cuts and efficiency in game so I won't be tempted to do so outside of the game.
    • Appearance customization can really spice up crafting as well
    • I believe in forcing specializations to promote economy diversity
    • After reading other responses, I like the idea of creating components to create a bigger thing. Shouldn't be more than 4 layers or it starts to get silly IMO. Raw -> Processed -> Component -> Thing
    • Keep RNGesus worship to a minimum
    That's all I got so far.
    in EQ2 there is about 10 base things of use you can make, and for each new tier you get the same 10 useful items but with different stats. 

    A game like Wurm has hundreds of items all useful including boats you can actually get into an sail, catapults. traps, workstations and there a many games that have crafting like this.

    I think if people would get off the tit that crafting is just about making gloves, they would be less inclided to look at minigames as some form of solution to their boredom. 

    I left EQ2 as a crafter not because I wanted better mingames, but because i wanted to craft something like a catapult that the entire guild could help out on getting the materials and would require multiple people to use. THAT is an interesting crafting system

    What do titties have to do with anything though? Where did anyone say crafting is all about making gloves?

    Minigames are fun why do you speak of them like they're a negative thing, or some less than? Less than what? I'm playing a game, it's wrong to play a game within a game to play the game? Explain.
    titles are critical to the conversation

    if one says for example 'games these days do not have questing' well that kind of requires one to give an example of WTF they are talking about so we can have context.

    because hand to mother fucking god the stuff I hear people complain about in regards to crafting is EXTREEMLY obvious that they have not played the games that represent my experience which is RADICALLY different then what they are experiencing.

    so yeah, gam titles are very importn


    and in my view mini games are some grade A bullshit

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,876
    laxie said:
    It's that time of year again. I need advice from the MMORPG community!

    I have been working on a multiplayer crafting game. The game should be mainly focused on crafting and selling items. After some previous suggestions, I decided to make items have a variety of stats. I am quite happy with that, as it gives the trading game depth, while still keeping it approachable to new players. For example, certain ores may be more heat resistant than others, passing this property onto a sword that used the ores in crafting. The market then simulates demand for certain attributes, affecting the prices based on stats used. Beginner crafters can still make profits regardless of stats, but expert crafters can choose to play the stat game to make their work sell for more.

    While the broader meta-game is quite fun, the actual crafting process is boring. I am realising a game isn't fun if the very core moment-to-moment short term gameplay isn't fun.

    Do you have any ideas on how to make the crafting process itself more engaging?

    How would you feel about some sort of a mini-game in crafting? I can think of two approaches to this. Either a skill-based task, where you need to press the right buttons at the right time. Perhaps your character swings a hammer and you need to press a button at the perfect time to hit the iron ingot accurately. Or a puzzle-based task, where you need to figure out some sort of a crafting puzzle as part of the process. Perhaps you need to find the right ratio of ingredients that randomly changes each time you craft.
    SOE tried this with Free Realms and a bit with EQ2. I don't think it was very popular. I would rather have a component based crafting system; it allows you to focus your abilities on say manufacturing even just one component and selling it if you choose, like GW2 and SWG and many games out there.

    But I like the idea of having quality and varying stats of crafted items dependent partially on RNG and partially on quality of material used like SWG.
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    I do not want a minigame in crafting unless it is just for really epic stuff. While it is fun at first it gets boring fast (EQ2 bored me to tears early with it's inane minigame).

    I rather have a design part to it. let me puzzle out the right skin, add my rune to it, add effects (might require rare mats) and name the really good weapons. Of course once I have made it once I should be able to copy all but the name without a new long design phase or just craft a standard looking boring thing.

    And yeah, weapon names should not be unique on a server but you should only be able to use a name once yourself. 5 swords named "Vengeance" on a server is fine but you making 500 is just silly.

    Give us different types of skins we can unlock, some depending on your race (dwarven axehead), your alignment (holy hammer head) and others you unlock through quests, get through drops and other ways.

    I want to craft something that looks great and have the flair I want it to have. I want to use ingredients to pick buffs and stats and if you have levels I want to be able to pick what level it is for  (but my crafting skill will of course limit that and high level gear should include rare stuff I might have to work to get).

    What I don't want is to craft thousands of trash before I can do something useful (again, EQ2).
    laxie
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Loke666 said:
    I do not want a minigame in crafting unless it is just for really epic stuff. While it is fun at first it gets boring fast (EQ2 bored me to tears early with it's inane minigame).

    I rather have a design part to it. let me puzzle out the right skin, add my rune to it, add effects (might require rare mats) and name the really good weapons. Of course once I have made it once I should be able to copy all but the name without a new long design phase or just craft a standard looking boring thing.

    And yeah, weapon names should not be unique on a server but you should only be able to use a name once yourself. 5 swords named "Vengeance" on a server is fine but you making 500 is just silly.

    Give us different types of skins we can unlock, some depending on your race (dwarven axehead), your alignment (holy hammer head) and others you unlock through quests, get through drops and other ways.

    I want to craft something that looks great and have the flair I want it to have. I want to use ingredients to pick buffs and stats and if you have levels I want to be able to pick what level it is for  (but my crafting skill will of course limit that and high level gear should include rare stuff I might have to work to get).

    What I don't want is to craft thousands of trash before I can do something useful (again, EQ2).
    I agree.

    I want to also craft things that the entire guild can be a part of in making or using.  A catapult for example, and not just things I wear but things like boats for example. 
    I have this in the games I play but my point being these are the specific reasons I left EQ2 in 2008
    laxie

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  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    Gdemami said:
    laxie said:
    Why can't you have both?
    I thought people would craft items and then use those as commodities to sell on the market?
    Because they are very different economies.

    Crafter is skilled professional, but those won't feed the masses.

    In order to have thriving market, you need a robust economy but such economies do not come from crafting, they come from mass production.

    Crafting in terms of games simply means building things as opposed to going out and killing things for stuff.

    Doesn't matter if you're making 1 item every week or 100 items a minute. It's all crafting.
    Gdemami
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Eldurian said:
    Gdemami said:
    laxie said:
    Why can't you have both?
    I thought people would craft items and then use those as commodities to sell on the market?
    Because they are very different economies.

    Crafter is skilled professional, but those won't feed the masses.

    In order to have thriving market, you need a robust economy but such economies do not come from crafting, they come from mass production.

    Crafting in terms of games simply means building things as opposed to going out and killing things for stuff.

    Doesn't matter if you're making 1 item every week or 100 items a minute. It's all crafting.
    I think...but not sure...what he is saying is that there is market aspects of a game and then there are crafting aspects and I would agree those two are for the most part logically separate. If the main or only reason to craft is for market then the game is failing at its design in crafting in my opinion.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,065
    I appreciate all of the feedback. I read through it all and will keep the suggestions in mind when designing the crafting system.

    My game is a passion project I started last year, mainly to see if I could successfully create a persistent game that would support multiple players. Unlike my earlier Minecraft project, I was focused on the networking challenges this time around, not paying too much attention to clearly outlining the crafting system.

    The earlier Minecraft project had four developers, with me doing the main gameplay design. I spent the majority of my time thinking about the systems from the design perspective. I even consulted with economists about the various economical implications of the gameplay. Likewise, I read up a lot on the crafting processes in the real world, to deliver an experience that felt believable. This all showed in the final design, which was likely fun due to the attention to detail I put in.

    The current game feels more like a tech demo, with a solid gameplay design lacking. I'm glad for all your ideas. I definitely understand that a crafting system is much more than slabbing ingredients into products. I was just curious if the "slabbing" process has space for improvement, or if most games leave it very straight forward due to the fact that simplicity is simply the best design.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    laxie said:
    I appreciate all of the feedback. I read through it all and will keep the suggestions in mind when designing the crafting system.

    My game is a passion project I started last year, mainly to see if I could successfully create a persistent game that would support multiple players. Unlike my earlier Minecraft project, I was focused on the networking challenges this time around, not paying too much attention to clearly outlining the crafting system.

    The earlier Minecraft project had four developers, with me doing the main gameplay design. I spent the majority of my time thinking about the systems from the design perspective. I even consulted with economists about the various economical implications of the gameplay. Likewise, I read up a lot on the crafting processes in the real world, to deliver an experience that felt believable. This all showed in the final design, which was likely fun due to the attention to detail I put in.

    The current game feels more like a tech demo, with a solid gameplay design lacking. I'm glad for all your ideas. I definitely understand that a crafting system is much more than slabbing ingredients into products. I was just curious if the "slabbing" process has space for improvement, or if most games leave it very straight forward due to the fact that simplicity is simply the best design.
    are they 'ideas' or are they specific illustrations of peoples in game experiences with other games?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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