I think the OP has laid bare an issue here as this thread clearly shows how easy it is to create a toxic environment, just look at some of the posts.
Also, massive lol at the people trying to argue about what a fact is or isn't. To put it bluntly, a fact is not right or wrong, good or bad, doesn't need to be believed in, it is simply the truth. The truth as presented by research and evidence. The ONLY time a fact isn't a fact anymore is when there is overwhelming evidence that there is something else going on/happening. This process is how ideas and thoughts became facts in the first place, and yes, they transcend any emotion or opinion, there is no point in arguing about this at all, just ask any Academic (not a philosophy one though, they transcend even facts and go straight into 'anything is possible' mode....)
/Cheers, Lahnmir
or 'a fact is a fact except for when its not a fact because its not true'
which actually also doesnt hold but still
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think the OP has laid bare an issue here as this thread clearly shows how easy it is to create a toxic environment, just look at some of the posts.
Also, massive lol at the people trying to argue about what a fact is or isn't. To put it bluntly, a fact is not right or wrong, good or bad, doesn't need to be believed in, it is simply the truth. The truth as presented by research and evidence. The ONLY time a fact isn't a fact anymore is when there is overwhelming evidence that there is something else going on/happening. This process is how ideas and thoughts became facts in the first place, and yes, they transcend any emotion or opinion, there is no point in arguing about this at all, just ask any Academic (not a philosophy one though, they transcend even facts and go straight into 'anything is possible' mode....)
/Cheers, Lahnmir
or 'a fact is a fact except for when its not a fact because its not true'
which actually also doesnt hold but still
Hahaha, but if that's the case then there will be an overwhelming amount of evidence to expose this. For ages the earth was flat, this was a fact. That is, until it was proven to be round, then that became a fact. Now, if in the future there is better evidence showing that the earth is pear shaped, then that will become a fact. Facts aren't static, they are however always the truth, for how long that may last.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I think the OP has laid bare an issue here as this thread clearly shows how easy it is to create a toxic environment, just look at some of the posts.
Also, massive lol at the people trying to argue about what a fact is or isn't. To put it bluntly, a fact is not right or wrong, good or bad, doesn't need to be believed in, it is simply the truth. The truth as presented by research and evidence. The ONLY time a fact isn't a fact anymore is when there is overwhelming evidence that there is something else going on/happening. This process is how ideas and thoughts became facts in the first place, and yes, they transcend any emotion or opinion, there is no point in arguing about this at all, just ask any Academic (not a philosophy one though, they transcend even facts and go straight into 'anything is possible' mode....)
/Cheers, Lahnmir
or 'a fact is a fact except for when its not a fact because its not true'
which actually also doesnt hold but still
Hahaha, but if that's the case then there will be an overwhelming amount of evidence to expose this. For ages the earth was flat, this was a fact. That is, until it was proven to be round, then that became a fact. Now, if in the future there is better evidence showing that the earth is pear shaped, then that will become a fact. Facts aren't static, they are however always the truth, for how long that may last.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
right!
a fact is not an opinion. its a fact until its prooven to not be a fact anymore then its just not true and never to an 'opinion' regardless of what proof is brought
in 'fact' if you want a good role, look up the definition of 'opinion'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
@Flyte27- "The end of law is not to abolish or restrain, but to preserve and enlarge freedom. For in all the states of created beings, capable of laws, where there is no law there is no freedom." - John Locke, Second Treatise of Government, Ch. VI, sec. 57
If everyone is allowed to do as they please without potential consequence in a virtual fantasy world, some players will inevitably be limiting the freedom of others. Some players may even control the choices of other players. Most people will not want to play in that sort of world for long. I would like to have much more freedom in an mmorpg, but I believe some amount of law is necessary in order to make that possible. Each inhabited realm or region in the game world could have its own set of laws and possible punishments for breaking those laws. There can be lawless areas, of course. But people who want to live in a more lawful zone with strict enforcement and punishments for those who are caught breaking laws should be able to do so. And that doesn't mean it would be impossible to be a criminal in a lawful zone. It would just be a lot more difficult. Same with trying to be a lawful person in a more chaotic zone.
Does that make sense to you?
Roleplayinn.com - New forum for people who love role-playing of all kinds - tabletop/pencil & paper, live-action, and role-playing in mmorpgs.
More than a problem of being toxic, players have become super sensitive snow flakes who will kick you over the slightest correction of their mistakes.
Why is it a "problem"? It is entertainment. Why should anyone tolerate anything? In fact, are you the snow flake now complaining how others would not listen to you?
It is not like anyone is obligated to listen or play with you .. and you have the same option of not to tolerate anyone. That seems fair to me.
You think being toxic is entertainment?
Snow flakes are part of the sjw movement where they think they are so unique that everyone has to agree with their own opinions. If they don't agree they vote ban/kick you and/or commit violent acts against you to shut up your right to free speech. I have never done this. I may think you are an idiot, but I don't try to vote ban you because words and feelings. That is the difference.
There is also a reason I stopped responding to your comments. Which again, I'm not trying to shut you up or vote kick/ban you because you have your own opinion (ridiculous as I think it may be). I just simply ignore you.
crying about being banned is being a special snowflake.
That said, you should really dial it down a notch. the moderators often dont mess around here
Get triggered.
it appears you got yourself already triggered off the scales, which I might add is very special snowflake like but never the less I think I have said what needs to be said and will try to say no more
Wrong, I'm not going around vandalizing property, reporting people on the internet to get kicked/banned. I'm fully happy to agree to disagree with people. But censorship, PC culture, and kick/banning me over having an opinion, or giving advice is where I have a problem. And that's not being triggered, that is simply expressing my opinion against a totalitarianism way of thinking.
I am sorry but you are ranting like a special snowflake right now. literally complains about being treated unfairly and getting rather upset about it. you should just learn to drop it and move on
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I am sorry but you are ranting like a special snowflake right now. literally complains about being treated unfairly and getting rather upset about it. you should just learn to drop it and move on
So when I say something ("complain"), about being kicked/banned ("treated unfairly"), and people like you tell me to shut up and stop crying about it ("just learn to drop it and move on")... this makes me a special snowflake? Interesting... I'm just going to have to disagree with you on this and "move on" (aka adding you to the list of people I will no longer respond to on these forums).
1. I didnt tell you to shut up you are exaggerating (like a special snowflake would) 2. 'complaining' about being 'treated unfairly' is being a special snowflake yes. In case nobody has told you, life is unfair. you have to decide which battles are worth fighting for, they are not all worth fighting for because you feel its unfair. that is the thinking of a special snowflake
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Snow flakes are part of the sjw movement where they think they are so unique that everyone has to agree with their own opinions. If they don't agree they vote ban/kick you and/or commit violent acts against you to shut up your right to free speech. I have never done this. I may think you are an idiot, but I don't try to vote ban you because words and feelings. That is the difference.
Obviously many think so. Otherwise why would games/forums be so toxic?
hmm ... we are talking about vote/kick out of a group here. I don't think the constitution gives you any right to stay in group in video games.
No one is shutting you up. You can exercise your free speech right complaining about others kicking you in a video game group. In fact, you did. You just exercised your right. Your right is alive and well.
But again, if i don't like you for anything, is there a reason why i have to play with you? If there is a constitution right of "forcing others to play with you", i am not aware of it. Please enlighten me!
I am sorry but you are ranting like a special snowflake right now. literally complains about being treated unfairly and getting rather upset about it. you should just learn to drop it and move on
haha .. he cannot. In fact, he is exercising his first amendment right .. right here. No one is banning him to cry about being vote-kicked.
So i don't know what he is complaining about ... unless he thinks he has the constitutional right of forcing others to play with him in a video game.
I think one of the most toxic elements of games is forums. Forums in general seem to be about ten times as toxic as the actual game. There are many reasons for that but I think one is the general moderation practices seen on most forums.
Now you are getting it.
Don't you think people actually WANT to be toxic? That is when they can be themselves, vent, rent, belittle and slap with no consequences.
Welcome to human nature!
I think you are projecting there.
No I think some people are more toxic on forums because they get bullied IRL and want to take it out others. I think some of us get toxic because we are well loved and physically imposing individuals IRL and then we get little snotnoses online who say crap that they would never say to our face, and we just aren't used to having to deal with that kind of crap.
I think the other thing is just the profound stupidity found on forums. IRL I usually only form tight friendships with people who are intelligent enough I enjoy their company, and I usually only associate with my friends on a regular basis. Then you get on a forum to exchange ideas and while there are some people who bring really great ideas to the table ( @Loke666, @Brald_Ironheart, @Steelhelm ) you also get some individuals whose ideas are so painfully bad you wish they had to take some kind of IQ test to be allowed to post (Not going to tag people for that but I'm sure they might denote themselves by LOLing this post.)
These are the kind of people that you would oust from your group of friends IRL because they are annoying and contribute nothing of value to the conversation, but online they can continue to come in and post in every thread you take part it, and there is no effective means of ignoring participants of an open discussion.
This seems a bit like a superiority complex. Calling others dumb because they don't agree with your idea of how people should treat each other is wrong. ....
dont you think you are being a bit hyper-sensitive?
While there may be some physical health benefits to being empathetic towards others I believe this is more of an opinion based topic where it's based more on point of view. There is no definitive right and wrong. It is all based on what most people in society believe at a place in time and that varies from time to time and culture to culture.
I dont agree with that, I think everything under the sun, literally everything that exists and does not exists (thoughts etc) does have an non-opinion based answer to it. Its just some if not most of it is impossible for our brains and time to get to.
If that were the case than societies ideas wouldn't switch back and forth over periods of time. Even today you have societies of people with different ideas of right, wrong, and how to live.
A very lawful / moral relativist perspective. I am not a moral relativist, nor do I equate societies opinions with what is right and wrong.
Right and wrong are their own things. They stand aside from ideas such as what is and isn't acceptable in society.
Killing a Nazi to free Jewish children they had intended to slaughter would be considered very wrong in Nazi Germany. However I don't think anyone here is going to make the argument that it is morally wrong.
My morality is based on utilitarianism. An action can be defined as right or wrong based on the consequences of your action both positive and negative. Whatever generates the most positive outcome overall is the morally right action. That right action may not always be obvious. Sometimes you really need to analyze the issue deeper and think about the longterm and societal effects of your action. However despite it being something most humans will not be able to know or comprehend given their limited knowledge and mental capacities, there is always a single "best" action you can take in any given scenario, and you should always strive to find that best answer given the information you have, rather than letting society tell you what is right and wrong.
my main problem with lowbies is them not knowing the mechs of the vet dungeons in eso. also, if you can't roll dodge or block when needed, you'll get kicked. i understand learning runs, let people know this is your first time. most won't. also, if you're under 160cp, you shouldn't be doing vet dungeons anyways. this may seem rude to you, but it's perfectly understandable and you need to understand what higher levels go through to keep you in party if you're a floor mat all game. i don't care for the time increase to finish a dungeon if i got a lowbie that can communicate and knows when to listen to how the mechs work, if you don't listen, you get kicked. you think it's bad, but most lowbies tend to think, i'll play my way in a team part of the game. no, you gotta do what you can to help the team. you wanna play your way, do it on your own time. no doing dungeons isn't your time, it's everybodies time and we most likely don't wanna waste our time while you crouch near the boss(or whatever it is you do). yes people are dicks, but you'll have the same attitude towards lowbies when you become high enough level yourself. you'll see that they do alot less damage, don't know how the dungeon mechs works, and don't know how to properly balance your attributes so you can dodge roll and block. don't worry, you'll figure it out
And sometimes you discover that high levels just want to be carried by their gearscore and the lowbies are actual better players than those high levels. Sometimes to the degree of being better for the team despite a slightly lower gearscore. Because gearscore =/= player skill. Running through the motions endlessly doesn't make you a better player than someone who hasn't played as long but spends more of their time in-game challenging themselves and trying to actually become a better player.
Sometimes gearscore and player skill correlate. Often they do not.
my main problem with lowbies is them not knowing the mechs of the vet dungeons in eso. also, if you can't roll dodge or block when needed, you'll get kicked. i understand learning runs, let people know this is your first time. most won't. also, if you're under 160cp, you shouldn't be doing vet dungeons anyways. this may seem rude to you, but it's perfectly understandable and you need to understand what higher levels go through to keep you in party if you're a floor mat all game. i don't care for the time increase to finish a dungeon if i got a lowbie that can communicate and knows when to listen to how the mechs work, if you don't listen, you get kicked. you think it's bad, but most lowbies tend to think, i'll play my way in a team part of the game. no, you gotta do what you can to help the team. you wanna play your way, do it on your own time. no doing dungeons isn't your time, it's everybodies time and we most likely don't wanna waste our time while you crouch near the boss(or whatever it is you do). yes people are dicks, but you'll have the same attitude towards lowbies when you become high enough level yourself. you'll see that they do alot less damage, don't know how the dungeon mechs works, and don't know how to properly balance your attributes so you can dodge roll and block. don't worry, you'll figure it out
What did you expect? In the older games you started doing simple dungeons fast with increasingly difficulty so people slowly had time to get into it. Now you at best get a few really easy dungeons and then the difficulty suddenly go up a lot.
It is not really the lowbies fault (generally speaking that is), modern MMOs tend to go from very easy content anyone can complete into at least challenging and demanding they know group mechanics.
In older games the increase were slow but constant and that way people settled into it. Now you meet people that is max leveled that doesn't know how the group mechanics works at all, and the endgame is unlike the earlier game pretty unforgiving.
But it is almost every single MMO doing this, not just ESO. Of course new players that doesn't listen to vets who tries to teach them are annoying, if you die you are probably doing something wrong and should listen to people who done this before. We are in a death spiral here, the games nerf the difficulty before the endgame, making players stay inept and they complain about the difficulty making the devs nerf it again.
A game with a good slowly rising difficulty curve that mixes group and solo content don't get the same problem, most people are not really stupid and learn things that way. But today is the open world generally kindergarten and then you shuffle people straight into the university. Give people need to learn the mechanics and ease them into it and everything will be fine.
I think the other thing is just the profound stupidity found on forums. IRL I usually only form tight friendships with people who are intelligent enough I enjoy their company, and I usually only associate with my friends on a regular basis. Then you get on a forum to exchange ideas and while there are some people who bring really great ideas to the table ( @Loke666, @Brald_Ironheart, @Steelhelm ) you also get some individuals whose ideas are so painfully bad you wish they had to take some kind of IQ test to be allowed to post (Not going to tag people for that but I'm sure they might denote themselves by LOLing this post.)
Calling others dumb because they don't agree with your idea of how people should treat each other is wrong.
I'm not calling trolls dumb. The correlation between intelligence and trolls isn't something that's been as thoroughly studied as say, the proven correlation between trolls and disorders like narcissism.
What I'm saying is that people say things on forums that are so painfully stupid that it draws out my own toxic behavior. People who come into threads and say crap that is either straight wrong (AKA you do the math and you can see they are wrong) or there argument is just based on horrid elementary school level bad logic.
Dealing with people like that does tend to drag out my own aggressiveness because people like that bring almost nothing of value to a conversation, so you end up spending half (or often the majority) of the debates trying to prove to people with sub-par intelligence they are wrong, while they angrily assert otherwise. Especially when most of these people come in to the conversation in an angry and aggressive manner themselves.
This is not something I deal with in real life. People who are so incredibly ignorant, and aggressive about it, aren't people I associate with IRL. Even if I end up in a situation where I have say, a coworker who is like that, I talk to them less or guide the conversation towards topics I know are on their level. I only talk about intelligent topics with intelligent people, or at least good listeners that don't feel the need to aggressively contradict me on topics above their heads. Forums are a mix of people who are worth talking to, and who aren't, and in order to have a conversation with the former I have to deal with the latter too.
So essentially what I am saying is I know at least for me. Yeah. I'm way more aggressive online than I am IRL. But for me it's a mix of having to deal with people who say things to me online they would never say to my face, and having people included in the conversations I have on forums that I would never include in my conversations IRL. I've actually been described as having the "patience of a saint" IRL but when I get online, the kind of people I deal with here are just infinitely more annoying than almost anyone you will deal with in face to face interactions.
Looking at the world from the viewpoint of the three gunas(hindu philosophy), 1/3 of humans are destructive assholes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guṇa
Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
I think the other thing is just the profound stupidity found on forums. IRL I usually only form tight friendships with people who are intelligent enough I enjoy their company, and I usually only associate with my friends on a regular basis. Then you get on a forum to exchange ideas and while there are some people who bring really great ideas to the table ( @Loke666, @Brald_Ironheart, @Steelhelm ) you also get some individuals whose ideas are so painfully bad you wish they had to take some kind of IQ test to be allowed to post (Not going to tag people for that but I'm sure they might denote themselves by LOLing this post.)
Calling others dumb because they don't agree with your idea of how people should treat each other is wrong.
I'm not calling trolls dumb. The correlation between intelligence and trolls isn't something that's been as thoroughly studied as say, the proven correlation between trolls and disorders like narcissism.
What I'm saying is that people say things on forums that are so painfully stupid that it draws out my own toxic behavior. People who come into threads and say crap that is either straight wrong (AKA you do the math and you can see they are wrong) or there argument is just based on horrid elementary school level bad logic.
Dealing with people like that does tend to drag out my own aggressiveness because people like that bring almost nothing of value to a conversation, so you end up spending half (or often the majority) of the debates trying to prove to people with sub-par intelligence they are wrong, while they angrily assert otherwise. Especially when most of these people come in to the conversation in an angry and aggressive manner themselves.
This is not something I deal with in real life. People who are so incredibly ignorant, and aggressive about it, aren't people I associate with IRL. Even if I end up in a situation where I have say, a coworker who is like that, I talk to them less or guide the conversation towards topics I know are on their level. I only talk about intelligent topics with intelligent people, or at least good listeners that don't feel the need to aggressively contradict me on topics above their heads. Forums are a mix of people who are worth talking to, and who aren't, and in order to have a conversation with the former I have to deal with the latter too.
So essentially what I am saying is I know at least for me. Yeah. I'm way more aggressive online than I am IRL. But for me it's a mix of having to deal with people who say things to me online they would never say to my face, and having people included in the conversations I have on forums that I would never include in my conversations IRL. I've actually been described as having the "patience of a saint" IRL but when I get online, the kind of people I deal with here are just infinitely more annoying than almost anyone you will deal with in face to face interactions.
But you do realize that just as in real life you are under no obligation to engage those who annoy you right?
Also, I'm fairly certain some posters intentionally take positions that you might consider ignorant or mis-informed just to be contrarian to try and get a rise out of others.
You actually appear to think very highly of yourself and your opinions which makes you a great target to try and bait into an argument.
For some folks these forums are a form of PVP and they have very clear objectives and definitely try to win.
Every time someone gets themselves banned or walks away from the forums in anger or disgust somewhere or responds in anger there is a "troll" quietly smiling under a bridge.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think we should get away from talking about snowflakes and instead talk about toxicity.
Toxicity is a very popular word that is used now to stop someone from being destructive. Factually we could probably say it is composed of anger, hate, manipulation, and transferring that to another person.
I was quite a toxic person for a while, but I actually had a lot of fun. It took its toll on my body, but the anger also gave me fuel to keep going. It's not a healthy life style, but it has its perks.
A toxic person usually tries to force others into their way of thinking through manipulation.
I think something people don't look at it is feelings of anger, jealousy, hate, etc. can be fun feelings to feel like any other feeling. They are destructive feelings, but they have their use at times. It depends on what your goal is.
The question is who gets to decide what is acceptable and not acceptable. Why is it OK to force a toxic person to behave one way, but it's not OK for a toxic person to force a person to act another way? They are simply different ways of thinking. Being toxic may be considered a sickness as it can harm the body. In some situations it can actually save a person depending on the situation they are in.
I think if you force everyone in a culture to conform to the same way it leads to boring entertainment. It's boring because there is no real conflict. It is all made up conflict. These games are all about conflict (hence the fighting, killing, and looting). Personally, I can't really find fun in playing MMOs anymore and haven't for quite a while because of this reason. It often more like a single player game and when players do interact there isn't much conflict between them in most cases. Due to the way the games are constructed it prevents any kind of real interaction in this form. The same can be said of entertainment in general in the modern age. It may be more mature, but it is also duller. If I wanted mature content I would just watch a documentary (and usually do) or read a book. I think it's good to have a mix of toxic and non-toxic minded players. It's healthy to have different types in order to keep things interesting.
One can sympathize with the OPs plight, but in the end, each person should be able to play the way they would like. I don't think players should be scolded or forced into the concept of good behavior. That is a choice they should make themselves. This is a video game where one would hope no actions have an effect on a person in reality. If they do then I would question whether or not they should be playing at all. There are probably things they could do for themselves that would help them a lot more.
Look I'm not condoning it but some people don't want to waste their time.
In FFXIV I have also voted to kick people who play poorly or just won't listen or are just not able keep out of the areas effects and no matter how many times you explain make mistakes. At some point I want to just finish the dungeon so although I never initiate it I do vote to kick once someone else does.
It sounds very unfair but I think we are entitled to decide who we want to play with we should not be forced to keep someone if they prove to be useless and neither should we be forced to carry anyone, that is what guilds are for.
So my cousin and I are in Teampspeak last night playing a game. He used to frequent this site but no longer does. I told him about this thread and he laughed fairly loudly. I asked what was so funny. His response was that is a great thread considering the toxicity of the posters on the site. After he composed himself, he went onto to say all games will have trolls ect. and most of what has been posted already. He then asked how can this site have a legitimate discussion on toxicity when the reputation and his own experience in the past on this site, show consistent toxic behavior, elitist attitudes and so on. Interesting thought considering the many examples almost daily on here.
Look I'm not condoning it but some people don't want to waste their time.
In FFXIV I have also voted to kick people who play poorly or just won't listen or are just not able keep out of the areas effects and no matter how many times you explain make mistakes. At some point I want to just finish the dungeon so although I never initiate it I do vote to kick once someone else does.
It sounds very unfair but I think we are entitled to decide who we want to play with we should not be forced to keep someone if they prove to be useless and neither should we be forced to carry anyone, that is what guilds are for.
Yeah, i think we all have kicked people that ignore what the other players tell them, you can't possibly complete if people don't listen to the ones that know how to do it (at least not a harder dungeon with puzzles and traps).
I never kicked anyone for just playing badly, as long as they listen we will get through the group and bad players that listen and learn will become good players fast.
I have kicked a few for having too bad gear when they showed up at the dungeon but that was also pretty extreme cases (I do remember this conjurer in EQ2 that wanted to run a lvl 50 dungeon in lvl 5-10 gear back in EQ2 when dungeons of that level still were challenging).
The main reason I kick anyone out of a group is that they behave hostile against other players, usually the healer or tank. Racial slurs, calling female stuff that makes my ears go red and similar is not okay and I wont share a group with people like that. If the person belongs to a guild with more members in I explain myself to someone that seems more mature and leave the group myself. And if people in my guild behave that way i warn them as soon as I notice and kick on second offense, I just don't want to spend time with people like that.
Also, in 90% of the times someone blames the healer or the tank they tend to be the problem themselves. If I think the tank or healer need to do better I whisper them and try to help them, not shame them to the entire party, it is not something needed often though.
But all these things are rare, it was a year ago since I kicked someone and that was someone from the guild I lead that didn't work out, not because being bad at playing but for being a jerk to other members. That just ain't okay.
Looking at the world from the viewpoint of the three gunas(hindu philosophy), 1/3 of humans are destructive assholes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guṇa
Look I'm not condoning it but some people don't want to waste their time.
I am. Let's not be pretentious. Why should anyone not vote-kick or quit if they think they are wasting their time, or not having fun?
Sure, you may have a different tolerances (or may be a bit of guilt if you vote-kick someone). But the bottomline is the same. There is no obligation for anyone to play with anyone else in a game.
Look I'm not condoning it but some people don't want to waste their time.
I am. Let's not be pretentious. Why should anyone not vote-kick or quit if they think they are wasting their time, or not having fun?
Sure, you may have a different tolerances (or may be a bit of guilt if you vote-kick someone). But the bottomline is the same. There is no obligation for anyone to play with anyone else in a game.
If Zombie Apocalypse ever happens you are definitely not going to be invited into my group.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Look I'm not condoning it but some people don't want to waste their time.
I am. Let's not be pretentious. Why should anyone not vote-kick or quit if they think they are wasting their time, or not having fun?
Sure, you may have a different tolerances (or may be a bit of guilt if you vote-kick someone). But the bottomline is the same. There is no obligation for anyone to play with anyone else in a game.
If Zombie Apocalypse ever happens you are definitely not going to be invited into my group.
Don't worry. The feeling is mutual :P
Joking aside .. you don't think social norms in the REAL world should be the same as when playing a game, do you?
Comments
which actually also doesnt hold but still
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
a fact is not an opinion. its a fact until its prooven to not be a fact anymore then its just not true and never to an 'opinion' regardless of what proof is brought
in 'fact' if you want a good role, look up the definition of 'opinion'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
If everyone is allowed to do as they please without potential consequence in a virtual fantasy world, some players will inevitably be limiting the freedom of others. Some players may even control the choices of other players. Most people will not want to play in that sort of world for long. I would like to have much more freedom in an mmorpg, but I believe some amount of law is necessary in order to make that possible. Each inhabited realm or region in the game world could have its own set of laws and possible punishments for breaking those laws. There can be lawless areas, of course. But people who want to live in a more lawful zone with strict enforcement and punishments for those who are caught breaking laws should be able to do so. And that doesn't mean it would be impossible to be a criminal in a lawful zone. It would just be a lot more difficult. Same with trying to be a lawful person in a more chaotic zone.
Does that make sense to you?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
2. 'complaining' about being 'treated unfairly' is being a special snowflake yes. In case nobody has told you, life is unfair. you have to decide which battles are worth fighting for, they are not all worth fighting for because you feel its unfair. that is the thinking of a special snowflake
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
hmm ... we are talking about vote/kick out of a group here. I don't think the constitution gives you any right to stay in group in video games.
No one is shutting you up. You can exercise your free speech right complaining about others kicking you in a video game group. In fact, you did. You just exercised your right. Your right is alive and well.
But again, if i don't like you for anything, is there a reason why i have to play with you? If there is a constitution right of "forcing others to play with you", i am not aware of it. Please enlighten me!
So i don't know what he is complaining about ... unless he thinks he has the constitutional right of forcing others to play with him in a video game.
And oh .. he is a special snowflake.
Right and wrong are their own things. They stand aside from ideas such as what is and isn't acceptable in society.
Killing a Nazi to free Jewish children they had intended to slaughter would be considered very wrong in Nazi Germany. However I don't think anyone here is going to make the argument that it is morally wrong.
My morality is based on utilitarianism. An action can be defined as right or wrong based on the consequences of your action both positive and negative. Whatever generates the most positive outcome overall is the morally right action. That right action may not always be obvious. Sometimes you really need to analyze the issue deeper and think about the longterm and societal effects of your action. However despite it being something most humans will not be able to know or comprehend given their limited knowledge and mental capacities, there is always a single "best" action you can take in any given scenario, and you should always strive to find that best answer given the information you have, rather than letting society tell you what is right and wrong.
Sometimes gearscore and player skill correlate. Often they do not.
It is not really the lowbies fault (generally speaking that is), modern MMOs tend to go from very easy content anyone can complete into at least challenging and demanding they know group mechanics.
In older games the increase were slow but constant and that way people settled into it. Now you meet people that is max leveled that doesn't know how the group mechanics works at all, and the endgame is unlike the earlier game pretty unforgiving.
But it is almost every single MMO doing this, not just ESO. Of course new players that doesn't listen to vets who tries to teach them are annoying, if you die you are probably doing something wrong and should listen to people who done this before.
We are in a death spiral here, the games nerf the difficulty before the endgame, making players stay inept and they complain about the difficulty making the devs nerf it again.
A game with a good slowly rising difficulty curve that mixes group and solo content don't get the same problem, most people are not really stupid and learn things that way. But today is the open world generally kindergarten and then you shuffle people straight into the university. Give people need to learn the mechanics and ease them into it and everything will be fine.
What I'm saying is that people say things on forums that are so painfully stupid that it draws out my own toxic behavior. People who come into threads and say crap that is either straight wrong (AKA you do the math and you can see they are wrong) or there argument is just based on horrid elementary school level bad logic.
Dealing with people like that does tend to drag out my own aggressiveness because people like that bring almost nothing of value to a conversation, so you end up spending half (or often the majority) of the debates trying to prove to people with sub-par intelligence they are wrong, while they angrily assert otherwise. Especially when most of these people come in to the conversation in an angry and aggressive manner themselves.
This is not something I deal with in real life. People who are so incredibly ignorant, and aggressive about it, aren't people I associate with IRL. Even if I end up in a situation where I have say, a coworker who is like that, I talk to them less or guide the conversation towards topics I know are on their level. I only talk about intelligent topics with intelligent people, or at least good listeners that don't feel the need to aggressively contradict me on topics above their heads. Forums are a mix of people who are worth talking to, and who aren't, and in order to have a conversation with the former I have to deal with the latter too.
So essentially what I am saying is I know at least for me. Yeah. I'm way more aggressive online than I am IRL. But for me it's a mix of having to deal with people who say things to me online they would never say to my face, and having people included in the conversations I have on forums that I would never include in my conversations IRL. I've actually been described as having the "patience of a saint" IRL but when I get online, the kind of people I deal with here are just infinitely more annoying than almost anyone you will deal with in face to face interactions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guṇa
Also, I'm fairly certain some posters intentionally take positions that you might consider ignorant or mis-informed just to be contrarian to try and get a rise out of others.
You actually appear to think very highly of yourself and your opinions which makes you a great target to try and bait into an argument.
For some folks these forums are a form of PVP and they have very clear objectives and definitely try to win.
Every time someone gets themselves banned or walks away from the forums in anger or disgust somewhere or responds in anger there is a "troll" quietly smiling under a bridge.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Toxicity is a very popular word that is used now to stop someone from being destructive. Factually we could probably say it is composed of anger, hate, manipulation, and transferring that to another person.
I was quite a toxic person for a while, but I actually had a lot of fun. It took its toll on my body, but the anger also gave me fuel to keep going. It's not a healthy life style, but it has its perks.
A toxic person usually tries to force others into their way of thinking through manipulation.
I think something people don't look at it is feelings of anger, jealousy, hate, etc. can be fun feelings to feel like any other feeling. They are destructive feelings, but they have their use at times. It depends on what your goal is.
The question is who gets to decide what is acceptable and not acceptable. Why is it OK to force a toxic person to behave one way, but it's not OK for a toxic person to force a person to act another way? They are simply different ways of thinking. Being toxic may be considered a sickness as it can harm the body. In some situations it can actually save a person depending on the situation they are in.
I think if you force everyone in a culture to conform to the same way it leads to boring entertainment. It's boring because there is no real conflict. It is all made up conflict. These games are all about conflict (hence the fighting, killing, and looting). Personally, I can't really find fun in playing MMOs anymore and haven't for quite a while because of this reason. It often more like a single player game and when players do interact there isn't much conflict between them in most cases. Due to the way the games are constructed it prevents any kind of real interaction in this form. The same can be said of entertainment in general in the modern age. It may be more mature, but it is also duller. If I wanted mature content I would just watch a documentary (and usually do) or read a book.
I think it's good to have a mix of toxic and non-toxic minded players. It's healthy to have different types in order to keep things interesting.
One can sympathize with the OPs plight, but in the end, each person should be able to play the way they would like. I don't think players should be scolded or forced into the concept of good behavior. That is a choice they should make themselves. This is a video game where one would hope no actions have an effect on a person in reality. If they do then I would question whether or not they should be playing at all. There are probably things they could do for themselves that would help them a lot more.
In FFXIV I have also voted to kick people who play poorly or just won't listen or are just not able keep out of the areas effects and no matter how many times you explain make mistakes. At some point I want to just finish the dungeon so although I never initiate it I do vote to kick once someone else does.
It sounds very unfair but I think we are entitled to decide who we want to play with we should not be forced to keep someone if they prove to be useless and neither should we be forced to carry anyone, that is what guilds are for.
I never kicked anyone for just playing badly, as long as they listen we will get through the group and bad players that listen and learn will become good players fast.
I have kicked a few for having too bad gear when they showed up at the dungeon but that was also pretty extreme cases (I do remember this conjurer in EQ2 that wanted to run a lvl 50 dungeon in lvl 5-10 gear back in EQ2 when dungeons of that level still were challenging).
The main reason I kick anyone out of a group is that they behave hostile against other players, usually the healer or tank. Racial slurs, calling female stuff that makes my ears go red and similar is not okay and I wont share a group with people like that. If the person belongs to a guild with more members in I explain myself to someone that seems more mature and leave the group myself. And if people in my guild behave that way i warn them as soon as I notice and kick on second offense, I just don't want to spend time with people like that.
Also, in 90% of the times someone blames the healer or the tank they tend to be the problem themselves. If I think the tank or healer need to do better I whisper them and try to help them, not shame them to the entire party, it is not something needed often though.
But all these things are rare, it was a year ago since I kicked someone and that was someone from the guild I lead that didn't work out, not because being bad at playing but for being a jerk to other members. That just ain't okay.
Only 1/3? I am surprised.
I am. Let's not be pretentious. Why should anyone not vote-kick or quit if they think they are wasting their time, or not having fun? Sure, you may have a different tolerances (or may be a bit of guilt if you vote-kick someone). But the bottomline is the same. There is no obligation for anyone to play with anyone else in a game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Don't worry. The feeling is mutual :P
Joking aside .. you don't think social norms in the REAL world should be the same as when playing a game, do you?