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Not interested in the current pay model.

2

Comments

  • timeraidertimeraider Member UncommonPosts: 787
    laxie said:
    Why don't people like subscriptions?

    Assuming that you are willing to pay something - and are not a person who never pays: Is it the principle that you are "forced" to pay a set amount every month?
    Yes. Same thing with f2p games. People are not willing to pay 120 a year for subscription to full games with all content and cosmetics for free... however for that f2p they easily pay down 100 a month just to level up faster or get more cosmetics/acces to content.
    Kinda sad tbh :pensive:
    Still prefer the way ESO, FF XIV etc. and Ashes seems to want to handle it to over alot of b2p-only (aka, no sub-option.. just b2p with cashshop) or f2p.
    Buying cheap is spending more.
    Want a new MMORPG in your life?
    Try taking a look at Ashes of Creation
    Referalcode for those extra's: e3dc414b-481c-465b-903f-3b1e68f68817

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Ponzini said:
    Wedlen said:
    I was excitd about this game. If they charge a subscription i will not be playing it ever. Sad. I do no support monthly subscription fees ever.  I dont care what rationale they are other people use for subscriptions. Look at GW2 and then tell me monthly subs are needed for good content.
    This game wont cost $50 like GW2. So that is ~3 months of subscription right there. You should know if the game is worth subscribing to after 3 months. Also wasn't GW2 pay to win? This game wont be. The only way I could see this being an issue is if you are still using mommy's credit card.

    That is another benefit of a subscription model. Usually means less little kids everywhere.
    GW2 Pay to win?  Not to my knowledge.

    image
  • PonziniPonzini Member UncommonPosts: 443
    Ponzini said:
    Wedlen said:
    I was excitd about this game. If they charge a subscription i will not be playing it ever. Sad. I do no support monthly subscription fees ever.  I dont care what rationale they are other people use for subscriptions. Look at GW2 and then tell me monthly subs are needed for good content.
    This game wont cost $50 like GW2. So that is ~3 months of subscription right there. You should know if the game is worth subscribing to after 3 months. Also wasn't GW2 pay to win? This game wont be. The only way I could see this being an issue is if you are still using mommy's credit card.

    That is another benefit of a subscription model. Usually means less little kids everywhere.
    GW2 Pay to win?  Not to my knowledge.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store#Utility

    There are boosters and a ton of other shit. Been in there since release I believe.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    And I don't trust indie games.  Hell will freeze before I -

    Ironically everyone is complaining about P2W and lootboxes in their game and yet the only guy on these forums who doesnt even get exposed to those things is me.....a dedicated indie game player.


    The main problem in gaming is how these AAA companies fool people, including the vast majority of people on these boards
    ZenJellyRelampagoFearum

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • cjmarshcjmarsh Member UncommonPosts: 299
    And I don't trust indie games.  Hell will freeze before I -

    (1) Financially support indie anything.

    (2) Pay a subscription fee.


    I'm a box cat.  *
    As an indie developer, I find your lack of faith disturbing.

    Tough to argue with cat pictures though.
  • H3llsingH3llsing Member UncommonPosts: 11
    And I don't trust indie games.  Hell will freeze before I -

    (1) Financially support indie anything.

    (2) Pay a subscription fee.


    I'm a box cat.  *
    Luckily you have the option of not playing. There is a ton of free to play games that you can play instead. It's what I do. I don't like Free to Play games so I surprisingly do not play them. If you need more advice feel free to ask. I'll always share insightful things such as this.
    wolfpack2012KyleranPonziniFearum
  • wolfpack2012wolfpack2012 Member UncommonPosts: 42
    H3llsing said:
    And I don't trust indie games.  Hell will freeze before I -

    (1) Financially support indie anything.

    (2) Pay a subscription fee.


    I'm a box cat.  *
    Luckily you have the option of not playing. There is a ton of free to play games that you can play instead. It's what I do. I don't like Free to Play games so I surprisingly do not play them. If you need more advice feel free to ask. I'll always share insightful things such as this.
    Apologies. Was on the wrong account *no idea how I had 2* 
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,771
    Well you don't have to be a backer and the only fair MMO payment model is subscription. Usually a MMO would come with the first months sub.
    wolfpack2012Dvora

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • PonziniPonzini Member UncommonPosts: 443
    Scot said:
    Well you don't have to be a backer and the only fair MMO payment model is subscription. Usually a MMO would come with the first months sub.
    You wont have to buy this game. You just start paying for a subscription and you are good to go.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,771
    Ponzini said:
    Scot said:
    Well you don't have to be a backer and the only fair MMO payment model is subscription. Usually a MMO would come with the first months sub.
    You wont have to buy this game. You just start paying for a subscription and you are good to go.

    Well all the more reason this is not an issue.

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • RouzukiRouzuki Member UncommonPosts: 66
    Ponzini said:
    Wedlen said:
    I was excitd about this game. If they charge a subscription i will not be playing it ever. Sad. I do no support monthly subscription fees ever.  I dont care what rationale they are other people use for subscriptions. Look at GW2 and then tell me monthly subs are needed for good content.
    This game wont cost $50 like GW2. So that is ~3 months of subscription right there. You should know if the game is worth subscribing to after 3 months. Also wasn't GW2 pay to win? This game wont be. The only way I could see this being an issue is if you are still using mommy's credit card.

    That is another benefit of a subscription model. Usually means less little kids everywhere.
    I'm sorry what? GW2 has been the industry leading example of how to have no subscription and not a trace of pay 2 win in the cash shop.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Ponzini said:
    Ponzini said:
    Wedlen said:
    I was excitd about this game. If they charge a subscription i will not be playing it ever. Sad. I do no support monthly subscription fees ever.  I dont care what rationale they are other people use for subscriptions. Look at GW2 and then tell me monthly subs are needed for good content.
    This game wont cost $50 like GW2. So that is ~3 months of subscription right there. You should know if the game is worth subscribing to after 3 months. Also wasn't GW2 pay to win? This game wont be. The only way I could see this being an issue is if you are still using mommy's credit card.

    That is another benefit of a subscription model. Usually means less little kids everywhere.
    GW2 Pay to win?  Not to my knowledge.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store#Utility

    There are boosters and a ton of other shit. Been in there since release I believe.
    A booster isn't going to be something I would consider P2W.  That's a stretch, as silly as such an item is to have in a game in the first place.

    And "a ton of other shit" just screams "I didn't actually look through this objectively but I hope you won't notice."



    image
  • itsoveritsover Member UncommonPosts: 346
    not interest in this game at all.

    image
  • PonziniPonzini Member UncommonPosts: 443
    Ponzini said:
    Ponzini said:
    Wedlen said:
    I was excitd about this game. If they charge a subscription i will not be playing it ever. Sad. I do no support monthly subscription fees ever.  I dont care what rationale they are other people use for subscriptions. Look at GW2 and then tell me monthly subs are needed for good content.
    This game wont cost $50 like GW2. So that is ~3 months of subscription right there. You should know if the game is worth subscribing to after 3 months. Also wasn't GW2 pay to win? This game wont be. The only way I could see this being an issue is if you are still using mommy's credit card.

    That is another benefit of a subscription model. Usually means less little kids everywhere.
    GW2 Pay to win?  Not to my knowledge.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store#Utility

    There are boosters and a ton of other shit. Been in there since release I believe.
    A booster isn't going to be something I would consider P2W.  That's a stretch, as silly as such an item is to have in a game in the first place.

    And "a ton of other shit" just screams "I didn't actually look through this objectively but I hope you won't notice."




    Heroic BoosterpngHeroic Booster150 Gempng
    637 Gempng
    2,100 Gempng
    1
    5
    20
    Grants all the benefits of both Experience Boosters and Item Boosters for 2 hours, including:
    • +50% Experience from All Sources in All Game Types
    • +50% Reward Track Gain in PvP and WvW
    • Up to 100% Bonus Kill Experience for Kill Streaks
    • +50% Magic Find
    • +50% Chance to Achieve Critical Success When Crafting
    • +33% Chance to Gain an Extra Gathering Strike
    • Gain 10 Seconds of Swiftness after Gathering
    • Summon a Black Lion Merchant If Your Inventory Is Full after Gathering (20-Minute Interval Cooldown)
    Magic Find BoosterpngItem Booster100 Gempng
    450 Gempng
    1,600 Gempng
    1
    5
    20
    Grants the following benefits for 2 hours:
    • +50% Magic Find
    • +50% Chance to Achieve Critical Success When Crafting
    • +33% Chance to Gain an Extra Gathering Strike
    • Gain 10 Seconds of Swiftness after Gathering
    • Summon a Black Lion Merchant If Your Inventory Is Full after Gathering (20-Minute Interval Cooldown)

    This is the definition of paying to win. I said there is a ton of other shit because there is a TON of other shit. Teleports, gathering tools, orbs that revive you when you die, supplies etc. It is absolutely ridiculous that you would try to pass this game off as not pay to win. True blind fanboyism.
    Torvalcjmarsh
  • beebop500beebop500 Member UncommonPosts: 217
    Konfess said:
    Tell the Truth.  The only Concern A Play For Free (P4F) player has, is the subscription.  Minecraft is an indie title, as well as a number of fine products.  Time will tell if Ashes of Creation is made well, but that wont matter to any P4F, only the subscription will.

    These P4F wont be satisfied until every game is not making money. They aren't concerned by the Winning, it's the Paying that they are fighting.  If they hear or see any paying, that must be stopped.  Their only criteria for a successful game is zero cost to play.  And they aren't satisfied until every player is spending zero to play.
    And they seem to think they "deserve" to play AAA-quality titles for zero dollars, ever.  The attitude of entitlement on these Western shores is crazy strong.
    "We are all as God made us, and many of us much worse." - Don Quixote
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Ponzini said:
    Ponzini said:
    Ponzini said:
    Wedlen said:
    I was excitd about this game. If they charge a subscription i will not be playing it ever. Sad. I do no support monthly subscription fees ever.  I dont care what rationale they are other people use for subscriptions. Look at GW2 and then tell me monthly subs are needed for good content.
    This game wont cost $50 like GW2. So that is ~3 months of subscription right there. You should know if the game is worth subscribing to after 3 months. Also wasn't GW2 pay to win? This game wont be. The only way I could see this being an issue is if you are still using mommy's credit card.

    That is another benefit of a subscription model. Usually means less little kids everywhere.
    GW2 Pay to win?  Not to my knowledge.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store#Utility

    There are boosters and a ton of other shit. Been in there since release I believe.
    A booster isn't going to be something I would consider P2W.  That's a stretch, as silly as such an item is to have in a game in the first place.

    And "a ton of other shit" just screams "I didn't actually look through this objectively but I hope you won't notice."




    Heroic BoosterpngHeroic Booster150 Gempng
    637 Gempng
    2,100 Gempng
    1
    5
    20
    Grants all the benefits of both Experience Boosters and Item Boosters for 2 hours, including:
    • +50% Experience from All Sources in All Game Types
    • +50% Reward Track Gain in PvP and WvW
    • Up to 100% Bonus Kill Experience for Kill Streaks
    • +50% Magic Find
    • +50% Chance to Achieve Critical Success When Crafting
    • +33% Chance to Gain an Extra Gathering Strike
    • Gain 10 Seconds of Swiftness after Gathering
    • Summon a Black Lion Merchant If Your Inventory Is Full after Gathering (20-Minute Interval Cooldown)
    Magic Find BoosterpngItem Booster100 Gempng
    450 Gempng
    1,600 Gempng
    1
    5
    20
    Grants the following benefits for 2 hours:
    • +50% Magic Find
    • +50% Chance to Achieve Critical Success When Crafting
    • +33% Chance to Gain an Extra Gathering Strike
    • Gain 10 Seconds of Swiftness after Gathering
    • Summon a Black Lion Merchant If Your Inventory Is Full after Gathering (20-Minute Interval Cooldown)

    This is the definition of paying to win. I said there is a ton of other shit because there is a TON of other shit. Teleports, gathering tools, orbs that revive you when you die, supplies etc. It is absolutely ridiculous that you would try to pass this game off as not pay to win. True blind fanboyism.
    I don't play the game any longer, and I've never closely followed it's development, so spare me the passive-aggressive bullshit about fanyboying.

    Those are certainly benefits, mostly to gathering and magic find.  Since the vast majority of items you find out and about in GW2 are simply deconstructed for crafting mats, it's pretty much all crafting supply related.

    However, sure, I can definitely see where that could be labeled pay to win.  It's certainly not paying for direct power, but it's a step removed by allowing one to find more magical items and farm mats faster.  I barely scratched the endgame in GW2, so I'm not sure how effectively this boosts any rate of progression or player power, though 

    image
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,047
    Ponzini said:

    I don't play the game any longer, and I've never closely followed it's development, so spare me the passive-aggressive bullshit about fanyboying.

    Those are certainly benefits, mostly to gathering and magic find.  Since the vast majority of items you find out and about in GW2 are simply deconstructed for crafting mats, it's pretty much all crafting supply related.

    However, sure, I can definitely see where that could be labeled pay to win.  It's certainly not paying for direct power, but it's a step removed by allowing one to find more magical items and farm mats faster.  I barely scratched the endgame in GW2, so I'm not sure how effectively this boosts any rate of progression or player power, though 
    The crafting boost is quite relevant. Since leveling up crafting requires making items over and over again, a boost is pretty much mandatory - it saves a lot of materials. The boosts, and gear in general, don't really affect combat power. The game is not gear focused at all and there is very little gear progression towards the end.

    If you wanted to argue for P2W in Guild Wars 2, I'd look at the gem to gold conversion. You can buy gems with real money, convert them to gold, and then buy anything on the marketplace. That's a lot more pay-to-win than anything else. I'm personally not a big fan of the ability to purchase in-game currency with real money.
    MadFrenchie
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    laxie said:
    Ponzini said:

    I don't play the game any longer, and I've never closely followed it's development, so spare me the passive-aggressive bullshit about fanyboying.

    Those are certainly benefits, mostly to gathering and magic find.  Since the vast majority of items you find out and about in GW2 are simply deconstructed for crafting mats, it's pretty much all crafting supply related.

    However, sure, I can definitely see where that could be labeled pay to win.  It's certainly not paying for direct power, but it's a step removed by allowing one to find more magical items and farm mats faster.  I barely scratched the endgame in GW2, so I'm not sure how effectively this boosts any rate of progression or player power, though 
    The crafting boost is quite relevant. Since leveling up crafting requires making items over and over again, a boost is pretty much mandatory - it saves a lot of materials. The boosts, and gear in general, don't really affect combat power. The game is not gear focused at all and there is very little gear progression towards the end.

    If you wanted to argue for P2W in Guild Wars 2, I'd look at the gem to gold conversion. You can buy gems with real money, convert them to gold, and then buy anything on the marketplace. That's a lot more pay-to-win than anything else. I'm personally not a big fan of the ability to purchase in-game currency with real money.
    Agreed there, buying money leads to an inflation situation where the devs have to either give in and switch to alternate forms of currency (see WoW nethershards, legionfall/class hall/Garrison resources, arginite shards, etc) or hand money out like candy.

    Didn't delve into the cash shop of GW2 much, never really noticed anyone who seemed to be more powerful than I am due to what I perceived to be a purchased advantage, but I never dabbled in PvP much, either.

    image
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,047

    Agreed there, buying money leads to an inflation situation where the devs have to either give in and switch to alternate forms of currency (see WoW nethershards, legionfall/class hall/Garrison resources, arginite shards, etc) or hand money out like candy.

    Didn't delve into the cash shop of GW2 much, never really noticed anyone who seemed to be more powerful than I am due to what I perceived to be a purchased advantage, but I never dabbled in PvP much, either.
    PvP should be completely unaffected. It automatically unlocks everything for you and there is no progression. You even get all the gear and can switch it around freely. It's 100% player skill in that respect.

    In practise, everything below PvE raids is unaffected as well. You can complete that content comfortably regardless of equipment. People doing that content don't really discriminate based on gear either. Because it's so easy for veterans, most people don't mind running content with relatively new players, as long as there are 2-3 veterans in the group.

    The one aspect I can see slight P2W is raids. The groups can be very elitist and they expect a certain gear threshold. This will take a few months by normal means, but you could buy it instantly by trading gems for gold. Similar with high level fractals.

    Because the progression is so flat in GW2, I've never been bothered by any potential P2W in the game. A good chunk of your progression is tied to achievements, which can't be bought.

    I dislike it in principle and for the psychological effect. Getting an amazing piece of gear after 3 months of play feels less rewarding in games where I know the gear equates to a $15 payment.
  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 495
    edited December 2017
    Ponzini said:
    Ponzini said:
    Ponzini said:
    Wedlen said:
    I was excitd about this game. If they charge a subscription i will not be playing it ever. Sad. I do no support monthly subscription fees ever.  I dont care what rationale they are other people use for subscriptions. Look at GW2 and then tell me monthly subs are needed for good content.
    This game wont cost $50 like GW2. So that is ~3 months of subscription right there. You should know if the game is worth subscribing to after 3 months. Also wasn't GW2 pay to win? This game wont be. The only way I could see this being an issue is if you are still using mommy's credit card.

    That is another benefit of a subscription model. Usually means less little kids everywhere.
    GW2 Pay to win?  Not to my knowledge.
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gem_Store#Utility

    There are boosters and a ton of other shit. Been in there since release I believe.
    A booster isn't going to be something I would consider P2W.  That's a stretch, as silly as such an item is to have in a game in the first place.

    And "a ton of other shit" just screams "I didn't actually look through this objectively but I hope you won't notice."




    Heroic BoosterpngHeroic Booster150 Gempng
    637 Gempng
    2,100 Gempng
    1
    5
    20
    Grants all the benefits of both Experience Boosters and Item Boosters for 2 hours, including:
    • +50% Experience from All Sources in All Game Types
    • +50% Reward Track Gain in PvP and WvW
    • Up to 100% Bonus Kill Experience for Kill Streaks
    • +50% Magic Find
    • +50% Chance to Achieve Critical Success When Crafting
    • +33% Chance to Gain an Extra Gathering Strike
    • Gain 10 Seconds of Swiftness after Gathering
    • Summon a Black Lion Merchant If Your Inventory Is Full after Gathering (20-Minute Interval Cooldown)
    Magic Find BoosterpngItem Booster100 Gempng
    450 Gempng
    1,600 Gempng
    1
    5
    20
    Grants the following benefits for 2 hours:
    • +50% Magic Find
    • +50% Chance to Achieve Critical Success When Crafting
    • +33% Chance to Gain an Extra Gathering Strike
    • Gain 10 Seconds of Swiftness after Gathering
    • Summon a Black Lion Merchant If Your Inventory Is Full after Gathering (20-Minute Interval Cooldown)

    This is the definition of paying to win. I said there is a ton of other shit because there is a TON of other shit. Teleports, gathering tools, orbs that revive you when you die, supplies etc. It is absolutely ridiculous that you would try to pass this game off as not pay to win. True blind fanboyism.
    Are those items able to be sold to other players for in game money?  I forget.  GW2 really has no progression to speak of though, so leveling faster etc means jack.  When the game came out I was max everything, best gear in game in 2 weeks.  There were legendaries that took forever to get but were really no better, just cosmetic differences.  Now they have some gear thats like 5% better than exotics which was previously pretty much top of the line...

    Anyways if the boosters are sellable for in game cash, and if there was actually something worthwhile progression wise to buy with in game money (there isnt) then I would say it might be p2w...  Otherwise imo gw2 is just a casual game where progression doesnt matter after a couple weeks of play at most.  Who gives a crap about those boosters.

    All pve zones are level scaled, and I believe pvp is level and gear scaled.  All around boring game imo, but I don't see p2w, for the fact that there is no worthwhile progression to buy.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,522
    Just because something looks P2W doesn't mean it is in actual practice (the vice-versa can also be true sometimes).  In Guild War 2's case, most of those boosts are nearly meaningless considering how easy it is to reach the level cap anyways and how most of the most valued items aren't affected by those item boosts.  Then why is it for sale, you might ask?  Probably a trap for people to buy when they don't know any better.  Or people who are just really REALLY impatient that they can't wait a few extra days to cap out or something.
    Dvora
  • xmentyxmenty Member UncommonPosts: 716
    krgwynne said:
    sub is best all others end up pay to win or just are not worth playing at all
    Warframe

    Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  • krulerkruler Member UncommonPosts: 589
    I love subscription based games they tend to have less riff raff lazy scrounging whinging asshats  and better communities and...................err hang on nope that was a dream I had, everything is grim dark and sad in the MMO world.

    I'm currently playing single player games given up on MMO,s for now, a Hiatus if you will. But then they went and put lootboxs and pay to win stuff in SINGLE PLAYER games.....=======)-:===>

    GAWD DAMMIT.
    Kyleran

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,063
    Ponzini said:
    Scot said:
    Well you don't have to be a backer and the only fair MMO payment model is subscription. Usually a MMO would come with the first months sub.
    You wont have to buy this game. You just start paying for a subscription and you are good to go.
    Even better... I have enough money from "suckers" using referral code that I could play for a very very long time without paying :)

    But... I would actually rather have Steven cut me a check and deposit the cash in my bank!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

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    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • jahlonjahlon Member UncommonPosts: 314
    Ponzini said:
    Scot said:
    Well you don't have to be a backer and the only fair MMO payment model is subscription. Usually a MMO would come with the first months sub.
    You wont have to buy this game. You just start paying for a subscription and you are good to go.
    Even better... I have enough money from "suckers" using referral code that I could play for a very very long time without paying :)

    But... I would actually rather have Steven cut me a check and deposit the cash in my bank!

    Or, the "suckers" who find out that is your mindset can just create a new account and you get nothing.   
    Jahlon The Legendary Clicker
    Founder of the Paradox Gaming Network
    Paradox Gaming Network
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