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CIG deal with Coutts & Co?

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,722
    Curt schilling approves!
    rpmcmurphyforcelima




  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Insert everything_is_fine.jpg

    Oh, and Coutts the reputable bank that only caters for exclusive clientele....
    Queen’s bank Coutts fined by Swiss financial regulators over money laundering.
    Coutts, owned by Royal Bank of Scotland, allowed a total of $2.4bn worth of assets related to the Malaysian development fund to flow through accounts in Switzerland.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/coutts-ban-fines-queen-swiss-financial-regulators-money-laundering-switzerland-illegal-profitting-a7559716.html




    MaxBacon
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Insert everything_is_fine.jpg

    Oh, and Coutts the reputable bank that only caters for exclusive clientele....
    Queen’s bank Coutts fined by Swiss financial regulators over money laundering.
    Coutts, owned by Royal Bank of Scotland, allowed a total of $2.4bn worth of assets related to the Malaysian development fund to flow through accounts in Switzerland.
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/coutts-ban-fines-queen-swiss-financial-regulators-money-laundering-switzerland-illegal-profitting-a7559716.html




    Not the first time they have been fined for allowing money laundering and probably won't be the last either
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    On the SA forums
    For anyone that watched Fargo S3.
    Ortwin = VM Varga
    Croberts = Emmit

    :D :D




    sgel
  • sgelsgel Member EpicPosts: 2,197
    The most successful crowdfunded project of all time needs loans to continue developing.

    ..Cake..

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    sgel said:
    The most successful crowdfunded project of all time needs loans to continue developing.

    The most successful crowd funded project of all time that supposedly has enough money to finish SQ42 already needs loans to continue developing.

    :wink:
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,492
    Best thing that could happen to Star Citizen is  some outside group getting enough leverage to boot Roberts out and start work on finishing things up.   All that crowdfunded money:  Just think how well Star Citizen would be doing if it just had competent management.
    BabuinixOdeezee

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Best thing that could happen to Star Citizen is  some outside group getting enough leverage to boot Roberts out and start work on finishing things up.   All that crowdfunded money:  Just think how well Star Citizen would be doing if it just had competent management.

    Who would want to touch it though? Anyone buying it would need to cut down features like crazy ala freelancer and I'm sure the hardcore crowd would be more then happy to send death threats to their families for destroying the vision lol
  • adamlotus75adamlotus75 Member UncommonPosts: 387
    The crowd funded money is gone. Unless you have a DeLorean that can do 88mph nobody is going to be able to do jack diddly with all that cash. It isnt there anymore. They are living on loans now.
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,502
    edited June 2017
    Best thing that could happen to Star Citizen is  some outside group getting enough leverage to boot Roberts out and start work on finishing things up.   All that crowdfunded money:  Just think how well Star Citizen would be doing if it just had competent management.
    Just point in the doll where bad Chris touched you so we can help you lol

    There would not even be the idea of Star Citizen without Chris Roberts much less the game. Same could be said of the many space games that saw Star Citizen crowdfunding success and followed suit like Elite for example.

    Taking a loan from one of the most prestigious and restricted banks in the world just validates all the booking of CIG and the viability of their busines model putting to ground all the doomsayer's bullshit theorys surrounding it's finances future lol.
    Many prosperous world wide multi-billion dollar companys take loans for whatever reason but because it's CIG the usual trolls try to spin it into a "win" because... lol they clearly need something to hang on. Saddies.

    Keep wishing haters, that's all you got lol



    Post edited by Babuinix on
    ExcessionGdemami
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,848
    edited June 2017
    <instert_SC_apocalypse.jpeg> It's the doomsday! SC is over! Will never release! \o/
    The wishful thinking of the worse possible case scenarios... precious fear monger lol

    They are securing funds side of the crowdfund, what is clearly a financial push, otherwise, they would have scaled down the company to the how much is their income, but they continue to invest in hiring and even opened a new studio this year instead.

    The constant expansion of the company and its studios especially in the past 2 years obviously has a told in its costs, wondering is how much have they secured with this loan as that is not revealed.
    Gdemami
  • Psychos1sPsychos1s Member UncommonPosts: 197
    So despite them claiming that they've brought in 152 million from backers and having enough cash reserves to finish the game if funding dried up, they've had to go to a bank to get a loan, on top of that they've had to put the entire company up as collateral?

    Obviously this is normal
    adamlotus75Odeezee
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 8,020
    edited June 2017
    Best thing that could happen to Star Citizen is  some outside group getting enough leverage to boot Roberts out and start work on finishing things up.   All that crowdfunded money:  Just think how well Star Citizen would be doing if it just had competent management.
    There's a good chance of that happening with this loan.

    If they fail and the bank gets Star Citizen IP and assets, then Chris Roberts is out. The bank might be able to sell everything to some company that removes all FPS gameplay and makes a space flying game out of the rest.

    It might become the most hated game in history, but it'd be profitable because the existing backers would need to buy it again to get access.
    MaxBaconBabuinix
     
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,848
    edited June 2017
    Vrika said:
    There's a good chance of that happening with this loan.

    If they fail and the bank gets Star Citizen IP and assets, then Chris Roberts is out. The bank might be able to sell everything to some company that removes all FPS gameplay and makes a space flying game out of the rest.

    It might become the most hated game in history, but it'd be profitable because the existing backers would need to buy it again to get access.
    A good chance? Because they totally will fail payments to the bank over do cuts in any necessary area to keep their earnings within their costs. And that being any realistic of a scenario with the constant stream of funding is the project's reality. Be real now...  O.o

    Do you really think even in that scenario if the bank gets the IP and assets they won't also get the liabilities? Guess who will be paying refunds to the backers, or guess who will be in legal fights over it at least, keeping and selling the IPs while making their liabilities magically disapear Wizard of Oz style? xD
    Gdemami
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,492
    edited June 2017
    Babuinix said:
    Best thing that could happen to Star Citizen is  some outside group getting enough leverage to boot Roberts out and start work on finishing things up.   All that crowdfunded money:  Just think how well Star Citizen would be doing if it just had competent management.
    Just point in the doll where bad Chris touched you lolol

    There would not even be the idea of Star Citizen without Chris Roberts much less the game. Same could be said to many space games that saw Star Citizen crowdfunding sucess and follow suit. 

    Keep wishing haters, that's all you got lol




    As always, I've talked to a number of folks who worked with Chris at Origin.  With someone who was at the initial design meeting for Wing Commander.  What they have to say isn't pretty, and doesn't bode well for the game.


    If you want, I can pull up quotes from the time of the Kickstarter on, trying to warn people that it was almost assuredly not going to go as planned.  To keep their expectations in order. 'Cause  feature creep, disorganization, inefficency and endless delay were going to be the order of the day. 


    Funny thing, Roberts is not as bad as Garriott as a project manager (low bar of course).  Garriott's  Origin productions featured year long crunches several times.   But I couldn't find a single soul who had anything good to say about Roberts.  Garriott is still liked by quite a few.


    With no one to reign him in, it's likely to be Digital Anvil all over again.   It's not that the game is a bad idea:  It sounds wonderful.   Poor management by an egomaniac?  That's a recipe for disaster.  Hopefully someone competent will be around to finish it up.



    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • Psychos1sPsychos1s Member UncommonPosts: 197
    MaxBacon said:
    Vrika said:
    There's a good chance of that happening with this loan.

    If they fail and the bank gets Star Citizen IP and assets, then Chris Roberts is out. The bank might be able to sell everything to some company that removes all FPS gameplay and makes a space flying game out of the rest.

    It might become the most hated game in history, but it'd be profitable because the existing backers would need to buy it again to get access.
    A good chance? Because they totally will fail payments to the bank over do cuts in any necessary area to keep their earnings within their costs. And that being any realistic of a scenario with the constant stream of funding is the project's reality. Be real now...  O.o

    Do you really think even in that scenario if the bank gets the IP and assets they won't also get the liabilities? Guess who will be paying refunds to the backers, or guess who will be in legal fights over it at least, keeping and selling the IPs while making their liabilities magically disapear Wizard of Oz style? xD
    It doesn't work like that Max, the customers paid the money to CIG to try and make a game, they don't own anything, even CIG's own ToS supports this if i remember right.

    And if they had no chance of failing payments why would the bank require such guarantees, the entire IP and all assets are included, there's no way this can be spun to make it look good for CIG, at best Chris's speech about having enough cash was complete bollocks, at worst they're in financial dire straits
    MaxBacon
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Babuinix said:
    Best thing that could happen to Star Citizen is  some outside group getting enough leverage to boot Roberts out and start work on finishing things up.   All that crowdfunded money:  Just think how well Star Citizen would be doing if it just had competent management.
    Just point in the doll where bad Chris touched you lolol

    There would not even be the idea of Star Citizen without Chris Roberts much less the game. Same could be said to many space games that saw Star Citizen crowdfunding sucess and follow suit. 

    Keep wishing haters, that's all you got lol




    As always, I've talked to a number of folks who worked with Chris at Origin.  With someone who was at the initial design meeting for Wing Commander.  What they have to say isn't pretty, and doesn't bode well for the game.


    If you want, I can pull up quotes from the time of the Kickstarter on, trying to warn people that it was almost assuredly not going to go as planned.  To keep their expectations in order. 'Cause  feature creep, disorganization, inefficency and endless delay were going to be the order of the day. 


    Funny thing, Roberts is not as bad as Garriott as a project manager (low bar of course).  Garriott's  Origin productions featured year long crunches several times.   But I couldn't find a single soul who had anything good to say about Roberts.  Garriott is still liked by quite a few.


    With no one to reign him in, it's likely to be Digital Anvil all over again.   It's not that the game is a bad idea:  It sounds wonderful.   Poor management by an egomaniac?  That's a recipe for disaster.  Hopefully someone competent will be around to finish it up.




    Ignore babuinix. He likes to try and construct strawman arguments in order to change the subject and/or say how everyone critical of the project is a hater. Evidence and reason doesn't work on him and will just try to loop it back to Derek Smart somehow if backed into a corner lol

    rpmcmurphyBabuinixExcessionsgel
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,848
    edited June 2017
    Psychos1s said:
    It doesn't work like that Max, the customers paid the money to CIG to try and make a game, they don't own anything, even CIG's own ToS supports this if i remember right.

    And if they had no chance of failing payments why would the bank require such guarantees, the entire IP and all assets are included, there's no way this can be spun to make it look good for CIG, at best Chris's speech about having enough cash was complete bollocks, at worst they're in financial dire straits
    Wait? Now what the ToS says is what matters? lol... No that's not how it works, the company is actively providing refunds because the nature of the status of the project the backers who wish to do so can stand their right. So in the case of a bank taking ownership you can bet the bank would be facing with refund requests, chargeback and international lawsuits if they don't comply with customer protection rights (if they keep the IPs and assets and their value they simply keep their liabilities).

    As for the guarantees, banks always require that and it depends on the amount of money, a large sum of money involved would justify going to that extent to give securities. OFC in CIG's side the ongoing crowdfund gives them a money flow that is a security for them when it comes to not fail the loan.

    If some decide wishful thinking of the worse possible case scenarios to feed the fear monger that CIG is going to fail payments of a loan like this, why not, doesn't make it the realistic or balanced view though...
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 4,502
    edited June 2017
    Babuinix said:
    Best thing that could happen to Star Citizen is  some outside group getting enough leverage to boot Roberts out and start work on finishing things up.   All that crowdfunded money:  Just think how well Star Citizen would be doing if it just had competent management.
    Just point in the doll where bad Chris touched you lolol

    There would not even be the idea of Star Citizen without Chris Roberts much less the game. Same could be said to many space games that saw Star Citizen crowdfunding sucess and follow suit. 

    Keep wishing haters, that's all you got lol


    As always, I've talked to a number of folks who worked with Chris at Origin.  With someone who was at the initial design meeting for Wing Commander.  What they have to say isn't pretty, and doesn't bode well for the game.

    If you want, I can pull up quotes from the time of the Kickstarter on, trying to warn people that it was almost assuredly not going to go as planned.  To keep their expectatwouldprder. 'Cause  feature creep, disorganization, inefficency and endless delay were going to be the order of the day. 

    Funny thing, Roberts is not as bad as Garriott as a project manager (low bar of course).  Garriott's  Origin productions featured year long crunches several times.   But I couldn't find a single soul who had anything good to say about Roberts.  Garriott is still liked by quite a few.

    With no one to reign him in, it's likely to be Digital Anvil all over again.   It's not that the game is a bad idea:  It sounds wonderful.   Poor management by an egomaniac?  That's a recipe for disaster.  Hopefully someone competent will be around to finish it up.

    ~~~~

    No need. Anyone with a minimal clue in game dev knows how hard a project of this magnitude is and the difficulties that entails.

    Chris Roberts and CIG are the only ones that can pull it off because they are the only ones really trying.

    If it was easy someone else would have done it by now dont you think?

    Ubisoft has been trying for 10years+ with Beyond Good & Evil2 with little to show for for example.

    rpmcmurphyExcession
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    Babuinix said:

    Chris Roberts and CIG are the only ones that can pull it off.

    If it was easy someone else would have done it by now dont you think?

    Ubisoft has been trying for 10years+ with Beyond Good & Evil2 with little to show for for example.


    LOL. The only people in the world... you really need to lay off that kool-aid brah

    Ubisoft canned BGE2 way back when, what we are seeing now is them revisiting it.

  • Psychos1sPsychos1s Member UncommonPosts: 197
    edited June 2017
    MaxBacon said:
    Psychos1s said:
    It doesn't work like that Max, the customers paid the money to CIG to try and make a game, they don't own anything, even CIG's own ToS supports this if i remember right.

    And if they had no chance of failing payments why would the bank require such guarantees, the entire IP and all assets are included, there's no way this can be spun to make it look good for CIG, at best Chris's speech about having enough cash was complete bollocks, at worst they're in financial dire straits
    Wait? Now what the ToS says is what matters? lol... No that's not how it works, the company is actively providing refunds because the nature of the status of the project the backers who wish to do so can stand their right. So in the case of a bank taking ownership you can bet the bank would be facing with refund requests, chargeback and international lawsuits if they don't comply with customer protection rights (if they keep the IPs and assets and their value they simply keep their liabilities).

    As for the guarantees, banks always require that and it depends on the amount of money, a large sum of money involved would justify going to that extent to give securities. OFC in CIG's side the ongoing crowdfund gives them a money flow that is a security for them when it comes to not fail the loan.

    If some decide wishful thinking of the worse possible case scenarios to feed the fear monger that CIG is going to fail payments of a loan like this, why not, doesn't make it the realistic or balanced view though...
    Yeah Max the company is providing refunds, if the company goes bump trust me the backers will be at the absolute bottom of the pile in regards to getting money back.

    On top of that how manyh times has it been stated that "it's a pledge man" surely the people who constantly parrot this wouldn't ask fora refund if it goes tits up? At least that's what they always claim.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,848
    Ubisoft canned BGE2 way back when, what we are seeing now is them revisiting it.
    The tech has been in dev for long, only now they started making assets even. They actively talked about how hard it was and how the project was stalled because of the tech challenges it presented.

    The tech demo they have shown shows they started to achieve what CIG is also achieving when it comes to that persistent and seamless scale with the mix of PG and handcrafted built planets.

    Even with that SC still stands the hardest of all, that is that within the reality of one MMO, what is the perfect combination for having engineers with many sleepless nights lol
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,848
    edited June 2017
    Psychos1s said:
    Yeah Max the company is providing refunds, if the company goes bump trust me the backers will be at the absolute bottom of the pile in regards to getting money back.

    On top of that how manyh times has it been stated that "it's a pledge man" surely the people who constantly parrot this wouldn't ask fora refund if it goes tits up? At least that's what they always claim.
    Many, I know I wouldn't look for a refund, I already played and had fun with the game for longer than I did AAA titles that had cost me more than my pledge to SC.

    But either way, this wishful thinking of the worse possible case scenarios so the company would fail payments to a loan like this, it's stretching it past reality to make it a likely scenario lol
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy Member EpicPosts: 3,502
    MaxBacon said:
    Ubisoft canned BGE2 way back when, what we are seeing now is them revisiting it.
    The tech has been in dev for long, only now they started making assets even. They actively talked about how hard it was and how the project was stalled because of the tech challenges it presented.

    The tech demo they have shown shows they started to achieve what CIG is also achieving when it comes to that persistent and seamless scale with the mix of PG and handcrafted built planets.

    Even with that SC still stands the hardest of all, that is that within the reality of one MMO, what is the perfect combination for having engineers with many sleepless nights lol
    Sure but they haven't been working on this iteration of the game for 10 years. That would be a ludicrous thing to imply.

    Ancel claimed it was at day one of development and yet they showed as much of a functioning game as CIG.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,848
    edited June 2017
    Sure but they haven't been working on this iteration of the game for 10 years. That would be a ludicrous thing to imply.

    Ancel claimed it was at day one of development and yet they showed as much of a functioning game as CIG.
    Yeah but that statement is flawed, day one as finished engine/tech and are now doing the game assets and so forth, no doubt in my mind if you go back to when the tech starting being built it would be years ago.

    What they have is that asset prototype/tech demo in-engine, not what SC has today, a released alpha with most of its core gameplay mechanic in it (from FPS to ship flight/dogfighting to EVA).
    Gdemami
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