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Virtual Reality coming to Macintosh

2

Comments

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Cleffy said:
    But as a developer, why would you ever invest in a Mac VR game? If Mac supported Vulkan, then great it's possible. Unfortunately Apple had to do more unsupported proprietary bullshit with Metal. So not only are we looking at a niche VR market, we are also doing it for an already niche consumer segment ($5000 Macs). They might get a couple developers to make one game and shelve it.
    Metal as an API isn't even close to as robust as Vulkan. So it would also be less capable.
    No, probably not a good idea at the moment. Once a VR game actually sold well on PC then fine but most gamers use PC (not counting consoles) so it makes more sense to choose PC when making a game in a genre that just started off.

    Then again, Mac is popular among other people so maybe they plan to use the VR for something else then just gaming. 

    It could of course be so that Mac people have less against forking up a huge sum and are more likely to buy something like this early...
    MrMelGibson
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    It was 20 years ago not 30

    Anyways... You asked the question "has any Apple Product failed?"

    Since the company in 1997 was facing bankruptcy, I would conclude that yes they did have some failed products.
    do you think the important part is the intent of the question or just focusing on the question in a fundamentalist way and pretend to not understand its intent?

    regardless, I made the intent of my question more clear in a few replies above if you are unclear you can refer to that or ask me and I will make an effort to explain

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,376
    edited June 2017
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    It was 20 years ago not 30

    Anyways... You asked the question "has any Apple Product failed?"

    Since the company in 1997 was facing bankruptcy, I would conclude that yes they did have some failed products.
    do you think the important part is the intent of the question or just focusing on the question in a fundamentalist way and pretend to not understand its intent?

    regardless, I made the intent of my question more clear in a few replies above if you are unclear you can refer to that or ask me and I will make an effort to explain

    I really don't know what your response:

     " has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot"

    What did that comment even have to do with the conversation in the first place? @MrMelGibson mentioned the price difference between PC and Macintosh which drew your response.  Now 99% + of PC's are not Microsoft products in the first place.

    I noticed that @blueturtle13  has also pointed out examples of how your statement was false. 

    So just what was your intent? Why did you even bring Microsoft into this topic? and if someone points out how your statement is false why do you insist on going and on with it?


    MrMelGibson

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558
    Mixed reality is where it will be at.
    laxie
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited June 2017
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    It was 20 years ago not 30

    Anyways... You asked the question "has any Apple Product failed?"

    Since the company in 1997 was facing bankruptcy, I would conclude that yes they did have some failed products.
    do you think the important part is the intent of the question or just focusing on the question in a fundamentalist way and pretend to not understand its intent?

    regardless, I made the intent of my question more clear in a few replies above if you are unclear you can refer to that or ask me and I will make an effort to explain

    I really don't know what your response:

     " has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot"

    What did that comment even have to do with the conversation in the first place? @MrMelGibson mentioned the price difference between PC and Macintosh which drew your response.  Now 99% + of PC's are not Microsoft products in the first place.

    I noticed that @blueturtle13  has also pointed out examples of how your statement was false. 

    So just what was your intent? Why did you even bring Microsoft into this topic? and if someone points out how your statement is false why do you insist on going and on with it?


    my 'intent' was exactly what I said but just add 'within the past 15 years.

    does that help?

    I mean seriously MS not getting into the cell phone market should be enough to know what I was trying to say. why does everyone pretend so much to not understand so often?

    and yes...of course I am talking about the Products Division and I say that for a specfic reason. I dont think its reasonable to compare an apple product to a Office.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,376
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    It was 20 years ago not 30

    Anyways... You asked the question "has any Apple Product failed?"

    Since the company in 1997 was facing bankruptcy, I would conclude that yes they did have some failed products.
    do you think the important part is the intent of the question or just focusing on the question in a fundamentalist way and pretend to not understand its intent?

    regardless, I made the intent of my question more clear in a few replies above if you are unclear you can refer to that or ask me and I will make an effort to explain

    I really don't know what your response:

     " has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot"

    What did that comment even have to do with the conversation in the first place? @MrMelGibson mentioned the price difference between PC and Macintosh which drew your response.  Now 99% + of PC's are not Microsoft products in the first place.

    I noticed that @blueturtle13  has also pointed out examples of how your statement was false. 

    So just what was your intent? Why did you even bring Microsoft into this topic? and if someone points out how your statement is false why do you insist on going and on with it?


    my 'intent' was exactly what I said but just add 'within the past 15 years.

    does that help?

    I mean seriously MS not getting into the cell phone market should be enough to know what I was trying to say. why does everyone pretend so much to not understand so often?

    and yes...of course I am talking about the Products Division and I say that for a specfic reason. I dont think its reasonable to compare an apple product to a Office.
    Fuck the office. How many people do you know that game on a Mac?
    MrMelGibson

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    It was 20 years ago not 30

    Anyways... You asked the question "has any Apple Product failed?"

    Since the company in 1997 was facing bankruptcy, I would conclude that yes they did have some failed products.
    do you think the important part is the intent of the question or just focusing on the question in a fundamentalist way and pretend to not understand its intent?

    regardless, I made the intent of my question more clear in a few replies above if you are unclear you can refer to that or ask me and I will make an effort to explain

    I really don't know what your response:

     " has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot"

    What did that comment even have to do with the conversation in the first place? @MrMelGibson mentioned the price difference between PC and Macintosh which drew your response.  Now 99% + of PC's are not Microsoft products in the first place.

    I noticed that @blueturtle13  has also pointed out examples of how your statement was false. 

    So just what was your intent? Why did you even bring Microsoft into this topic? and if someone points out how your statement is false why do you insist on going and on with it?


    my 'intent' was exactly what I said but just add 'within the past 15 years.

    does that help?

    I mean seriously MS not getting into the cell phone market should be enough to know what I was trying to say. why does everyone pretend so much to not understand so often?

    and yes...of course I am talking about the Products Division and I say that for a specfic reason. I dont think its reasonable to compare an apple product to a Office.
    Fuck the office. How many people do you know that game on a Mac?
    so why do you find me comparing the two companies product division so unreasonable? 

    What I am saying is rather simple: 'Apple has a very low failure rate (for products released in the last 15 years) and compared to other vendors in the same category a higher success rate (over the past 15 years)'

    do you disagree with that assetment?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,071
    I wonder how big the market is - or even what the target segment is.
    Can't wrap my head around it. To buy into VIVE VR at this stage, you have to be a tech enthusiast. If you are though, won't you have a VIVE on PC already?

    I always saw Mac as an exceptional platform for artists. Several people I know use it for video editing and vector graphics. VR would make a lot of sense for Apple there - a tool to perhaps visualise 3D model for clients, do something cool art-wise or otherwise empower the video production aspect. But VIVE isn't there technologically yet in my opinion. The resolution and the lenses aren't made for artists, but for those who want to experience the promise of something to come.
    MrMelGibson
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    There's a book I recommend everyone read, written by Neal Stephenson (Zodiac, Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon) called In the Beginning was the Command Line. It's a bit dated but the ideas still ring true.

    He goes into great detail about how operating systems became "productized" (selling 1's and 0's) and uses a car analogy to illustrate how Microsoft (clunky station wagons), Apple (hermetically-sealed rocket cars), and the collective that is Linux (indestructible tanks) have presented themselves and why - given you can have a rocket car if you have the money or a indestructible tank for free, people still choose the clunky station wagon.

    Brilliant book. He released it on the internet as a text file years ago for free and I'll bet a Google search would get you a copy.
    Phaserlight
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • rounnerrounner Member UncommonPosts: 715
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:






    There's a book I recommend everyone read, written by Neal Stephenson (Zodiac, Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon) called In the Beginning was the Command Line. It's a bit dated but the ideas still ring true.

    He goes into great detail about how operating systems became "productized" (selling 1's and 0's) and uses a car analogy to illustrate how Microsoft (clunky station wagons), Apple (hermetically-sealed rocket cars), and the collective that is Linux (indestructible tanks) have presented themselves and why - given you can have a rocket car if you have the money or a indestructible tank for free, people still choose the clunky station wagon.

    Brilliant book. He released it on the internet as a text file years ago for free and I'll bet a Google search would get you a copy.
    Only a dumb kid would rather own a rocket car or tank over a road worthy vehicle that can actually be driven on the roads. I'll be sure to give the book a miss.
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    It was 20 years ago not 30

    Anyways... You asked the question "has any Apple Product failed?"

    Since the company in 1997 was facing bankruptcy, I would conclude that yes they did have some failed products.
    do you think the important part is the intent of the question or just focusing on the question in a fundamentalist way and pretend to not understand its intent?

    regardless, I made the intent of my question more clear in a few replies above if you are unclear you can refer to that or ask me and I will make an effort to explain

    I really don't know what your response:

     " has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot"

    What did that comment even have to do with the conversation in the first place? @MrMelGibson mentioned the price difference between PC and Macintosh which drew your response.  Now 99% + of PC's are not Microsoft products in the first place.

    I noticed that @blueturtle13  has also pointed out examples of how your statement was false. 

    So just what was your intent? Why did you even bring Microsoft into this topic? and if someone points out how your statement is false why do you insist on going and on with it?


    my 'intent' was exactly what I said but just add 'within the past 15 years.

    does that help?

    I mean seriously MS not getting into the cell phone market should be enough to know what I was trying to say. why does everyone pretend so much to not understand so often?

    and yes...of course I am talking about the Products Division and I say that for a specfic reason. I dont think its reasonable to compare an apple product to a Office.
    Fuck the office. How many people do you know that game on a Mac?
    *raises hand*

    But only the games that run on macOS: ESO, GW2, LOTRO, WoW, FF XIV, Albion Online, Eve Online, Project Gorgon, DDO, SotA, LoL, D3, and a shit ton of RPGs.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    rounner said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:






    There's a book I recommend everyone read, written by Neal Stephenson (Zodiac, Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon) called In the Beginning was the Command Line. It's a bit dated but the ideas still ring true.

    He goes into great detail about how operating systems became "productized" (selling 1's and 0's) and uses a car analogy to illustrate how Microsoft (clunky station wagons), Apple (hermetically-sealed rocket cars), and the collective that is Linux (indestructible tanks) have presented themselves and why - given you can have a rocket car if you have the money or a indestructible tank for free, people still choose the clunky station wagon.

    Brilliant book. He released it on the internet as a text file years ago for free and I'll bet a Google search would get you a copy.
    Only a dumb kid would rather own a rocket car or tank over a road worthy vehicle that can actually be driven on the roads. I'll be sure to give the book a miss.
    Your loss, but given your response, I'd say the subject matter is over your head.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    It was 20 years ago not 30

    Anyways... You asked the question "has any Apple Product failed?"

    Since the company in 1997 was facing bankruptcy, I would conclude that yes they did have some failed products.
    do you think the important part is the intent of the question or just focusing on the question in a fundamentalist way and pretend to not understand its intent?

    regardless, I made the intent of my question more clear in a few replies above if you are unclear you can refer to that or ask me and I will make an effort to explain

    I really don't know what your response:

     " has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot"

    What did that comment even have to do with the conversation in the first place? @MrMelGibson mentioned the price difference between PC and Macintosh which drew your response.  Now 99% + of PC's are not Microsoft products in the first place.

    I noticed that @blueturtle13  has also pointed out examples of how your statement was false. 

    So just what was your intent? Why did you even bring Microsoft into this topic? and if someone points out how your statement is false why do you insist on going and on with it?


    my 'intent' was exactly what I said but just add 'within the past 15 years.

    does that help?

    I mean seriously MS not getting into the cell phone market should be enough to know what I was trying to say. why does everyone pretend so much to not understand so often?

    and yes...of course I am talking about the Products Division and I say that for a specfic reason. I dont think its reasonable to compare an apple product to a Office.
    Fuck the office. How many people do you know that game on a Mac?
    *raises hand*

    But only the games that run on macOS: ESO, GW2, LOTRO, WoW, FF XIV, Albion Online, Eve Online, Project Gorgon, DDO, SotA, LoL, D3, and a shit ton of RPGs.
    I get what you're saying, but I think we both agree you are in the minority.
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    It was 20 years ago not 30

    Anyways... You asked the question "has any Apple Product failed?"

    Since the company in 1997 was facing bankruptcy, I would conclude that yes they did have some failed products.
    do you think the important part is the intent of the question or just focusing on the question in a fundamentalist way and pretend to not understand its intent?

    regardless, I made the intent of my question more clear in a few replies above if you are unclear you can refer to that or ask me and I will make an effort to explain

    I really don't know what your response:

     " has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot"

    What did that comment even have to do with the conversation in the first place? @MrMelGibson mentioned the price difference between PC and Macintosh which drew your response.  Now 99% + of PC's are not Microsoft products in the first place.

    I noticed that @blueturtle13  has also pointed out examples of how your statement was false. 

    So just what was your intent? Why did you even bring Microsoft into this topic? and if someone points out how your statement is false why do you insist on going and on with it?


    my 'intent' was exactly what I said but just add 'within the past 15 years.

    does that help?

    I mean seriously MS not getting into the cell phone market should be enough to know what I was trying to say. why does everyone pretend so much to not understand so often?

    and yes...of course I am talking about the Products Division and I say that for a specfic reason. I dont think its reasonable to compare an apple product to a Office.
    Fuck the office. How many people do you know that game on a Mac?
    *raises hand*

    But only the games that run on macOS: ESO, GW2, LOTRO, WoW, FF XIV, Albion Online, Eve Online, Project Gorgon, DDO, SotA, LoL, D3, and a shit ton of RPGs.
    I get what you're saying, but I think we both agree you are in the minority.
    Never had any illusions otherwise.

    I also have a Win Laptop for games that aren't on Mac. I hate Windows, but as long as I can quickly bypass it and jump right on a game, it's tolerable.
    MrMelGibson
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    It was 20 years ago not 30

    Anyways... You asked the question "has any Apple Product failed?"

    Since the company in 1997 was facing bankruptcy, I would conclude that yes they did have some failed products.
    do you think the important part is the intent of the question or just focusing on the question in a fundamentalist way and pretend to not understand its intent?

    regardless, I made the intent of my question more clear in a few replies above if you are unclear you can refer to that or ask me and I will make an effort to explain

    I really don't know what your response:

     " has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot"

    What did that comment even have to do with the conversation in the first place? @MrMelGibson mentioned the price difference between PC and Macintosh which drew your response.  Now 99% + of PC's are not Microsoft products in the first place.

    I noticed that @blueturtle13  has also pointed out examples of how your statement was false. 

    So just what was your intent? Why did you even bring Microsoft into this topic? and if someone points out how your statement is false why do you insist on going and on with it?


    my 'intent' was exactly what I said but just add 'within the past 15 years.

    does that help?

    I mean seriously MS not getting into the cell phone market should be enough to know what I was trying to say. why does everyone pretend so much to not understand so often?

    and yes...of course I am talking about the Products Division and I say that for a specfic reason. I dont think its reasonable to compare an apple product to a Office.
    Fuck the office. How many people do you know that game on a Mac?
    *raises hand*

    But only the games that run on macOS: ESO, GW2, LOTRO, WoW, FF XIV, Albion Online, Eve Online, Project Gorgon, DDO, SotA, LoL, D3, and a shit ton of RPGs.
    I get what you're saying, but I think we both agree you are in the minority.
    Never had any illusions otherwise.

    I also have a Win Laptop for games that aren't on Mac. I hate Windows, but as long as I can quickly bypass it and jump right on a game, it's tolerable.
    Fair enough.  Just a quick question. I've never owned a mac, but I have always heard people say that they just use boot camp on their Macs to play PC games.  Is that still viable? Or are there still limits to which games boot camp uses?  
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    I never had an issue with any game. I don't bother with it anymore because most games I want to play have Mac clients.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited June 2017
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    There's a book I recommend everyone read, written by Neal Stephenson (Zodiac, Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon) called In the Beginning was the Command Line. It's a bit dated but the ideas still ring true.

    He goes into great detail about how operating systems became "productized" (selling 1's and 0's) and uses a car analogy to illustrate how Microsoft (clunky station wagons), Apple (hermetically-sealed rocket cars), and the collective that is Linux (indestructible tanks) have presented themselves and why - given you can have a rocket car if you have the money or a indestructible tank for free, people still choose the clunky station wagon.

    Brilliant book. He released it on the internet as a text file years ago for free and I'll bet a Google search would get you a copy.
    there is ZERO dispute that Microsoft was MAJOR success in the Information Systems industry and even in gaming in the past and even in the IS industry today.

    In fact its not even the question.


    The question is the last 15 years in Products (includuing internet services for the public aka Bing) ONLY and as it related to Apples success in Products industry in the past 15 years and most importantly including now.

    In general under the current management and under Steve Balamer if you were to bet money on a product produced by Apple vs a product produced by MS you are likely to be more successful in that investment by going Apple. (That is NOT to say the stocks...its to say products and internet services to the public only.

    -Bing is horrible
    -MSN is basically a non-thing even when they came out
    -really all internet apps like maps, youtube etc (if you told me MS would basically not have a serious presence on the internet 20 years ago I would call you crazy)
    -Zune (which was a counter to the iPod which was a HUGELY successful music player)
    -nearly completely missing the entire cell phone market
    -nearly completely missing the entire smart phone market
    -coming VERY late to the party with 'smart pads'
    -a huge expensive Touch device that didnt go anywhere
    -I might even suggest Xbox One was a huge mis-step. not a failure but they have the resources and presence in gaming that Sony should not have been able to out do them

    how do people here not know this?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    There's a book I recommend everyone read, written by Neal Stephenson (Zodiac, Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon) called In the Beginning was the Command Line. It's a bit dated but the ideas still ring true.

    He goes into great detail about how operating systems became "productized" (selling 1's and 0's) and uses a car analogy to illustrate how Microsoft (clunky station wagons), Apple (hermetically-sealed rocket cars), and the collective that is Linux (indestructible tanks) have presented themselves and why - given you can have a rocket car if you have the money or a indestructible tank for free, people still choose the clunky station wagon.

    Brilliant book. He released it on the internet as a text file years ago for free and I'll bet a Google search would get you a copy.
    there is ZERO dispute that Microsoft was MAJOR success in the Information Systems industry and even in gaming in the past and even in the IS industry today.

    In fact its not even the question.


    The question is the last 15 years in Products (includuing internet services for the public aka Bing) ONLY and as it related to Apples success in Products industry in the past 15 years and most importantly including now.

    In general under the current management and under Steve Balamer if you were to bet money on a product produced by Apple vs a product produced by MS you are likely to be more successful in that investment by going Apple. (That is NOT to say the stocks...its to say products and internet services to the public only.

    -Bing is horrible
    -MSN is basically a non-thing even when they came out
    -really all internet apps like maps, youtube etc (if you told me MS would basically not have a serious presence on the internet 20 years ago I would call you crazy)
    -Zune (which was a counter to the iPod which was a HUGELY successful music player)
    -nearly completely missing the entire cell phone market
    -nearly completely missing the entire smart phone market
    -coming VERY late to the party with 'smart pads'
    -a huge expensive Touch device that didnt go anywhere
    -I might even suggest Xbox One was a huge mis-step. not a failure but they have the resources and presence in gaming that Sony should not have been able to out do them

    how do people here not know this?

    Having worked at Apple for 4 years and Microsoft for 17 years, I can tell you exactly why and it's the same problem with MMOs. Ironically, it comes from Apple's Steve Jobs:

    "We think the Mac will sell zillions, but we didn’t build the Mac for anybody else. We built it for ourselves. We were the group of people who were going to judge whether it was great or not. We weren’t going to go out and do market research. We just wanted to build the best thing we could build."

    Microsoft injected so much market research into their corporate decision-making they became paralyzed. It's one of the reasons I left in 2008. The company didn't even know the meaning of innovation anymore. Microsoft didn't innovate, they acquired. Almost 10 years later and it's not much better.
    blueturtle13PhaserlightlaseritMrMelGibson
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,010
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Didn't it take a 150 million dollar bail out by none other than Mr Bill Gates to keep Apple from Bankruptcy

    https://www.wired.com/2009/08/dayintech_0806/

    Because Bill Gates knows a good investment when he sees one, which is why he didn't bother investing the money back into his own company?

    or...

    They had money left over once they realized there was no future in cell phones?
    I think in the era of technology looking at the actions of 30 years ago while at the same time ignoring the patterns of the past 10 years is well...idiotic.

    In the consumer product space Apple has a considerably higher success rate then Microsoft does covering about  the past 15 years or so.

    For a company like Microsoft to not get strong into cell phone market successful if flat out blind blowing. Its 'grab them by the P**y' level floored stunning.

    Microsoft getting beat out on sales by Sony is a bit odd as well but not as much as above
    There's a book I recommend everyone read, written by Neal Stephenson (Zodiac, Snow Crash, Cryptonomicon) called In the Beginning was the Command Line. It's a bit dated but the ideas still ring true.

    He goes into great detail about how operating systems became "productized" (selling 1's and 0's) and uses a car analogy to illustrate how Microsoft (clunky station wagons), Apple (hermetically-sealed rocket cars), and the collective that is Linux (indestructible tanks) have presented themselves and why - given you can have a rocket car if you have the money or a indestructible tank for free, people still choose the clunky station wagon.

    Brilliant book. He released it on the internet as a text file years ago for free and I'll bet a Google search would get you a copy.
    It's actually an essay that comes at the end of the also brilliant Cryptonomicon, but yes it's worth a read.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    there is ZERO dispute that Microsoft was MAJOR success in the Information Systems industry and even in gaming in the past and even in the IS industry today.

    In fact its not even the question.


    The question is the last 15 years in Products (includuing internet services for the public aka Bing) ONLY and as it related to Apples success in Products industry in the past 15 years and most importantly including now.

    In general under the current management and under Steve Balamer if you were to bet money on a product produced by Apple vs a product produced by MS you are likely to be more successful in that investment by going Apple. (That is NOT to say the stocks...its to say products and internet services to the public only.

    -Bing is horrible
    -MSN is basically a non-thing even when they came out
    -really all internet apps like maps, youtube etc (if you told me MS would basically not have a serious presence on the internet 20 years ago I would call you crazy)
    -Zune (which was a counter to the iPod which was a HUGELY successful music player)
    -nearly completely missing the entire cell phone market
    -nearly completely missing the entire smart phone market
    -coming VERY late to the party with 'smart pads'
    -a huge expensive Touch device that didnt go anywhere
    -I might even suggest Xbox One was a huge mis-step. not a failure but they have the resources and presence in gaming that Sony should not have been able to out do them

    how do people here not know this?

    Having worked at Apple for 4 years and Microsoft for 17 years, I can tell you exactly why and it's the same problem with MMOs. Ironically, it comes from Apple's Steve Jobs:

    "We think the Mac will sell zillions, but we didn’t build the Mac for anybody else. We built it for ourselves. We were the group of people who were going to judge whether it was great or not. We weren’t going to go out and do market research. We just wanted to build the best thing we could build."

    Microsoft injected so much market research into their corporate decision-making they became paralyzed. It's one of the reasons I left in 2008. The company didn't even know the meaning of innovation anymore. Microsoft didn't innovate, they acquired. Almost 10 years later and it's not much better.
    that is a facilitating story but not related to what I said above so I am not sure what your underlining point in that reply is exactly unless its just an aside.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,333
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Well, there were some that didn't really take off. The Newton (way ahead of its time) and the cube. Keep in mind I'm a huge fan of Apple's products.
    The cube was a joke lol remember the Pippin? Apple actually made a failed game console ugh terrible.
    Or the Tam? Killed off in one year
    Or the Mighty Mouse? Which was surprisingly worse than their failed hockey puck mouse.
    Or their 3rd gen ipod shuffle? terrible technically and commercially. 
    Or even the 2015 macbook.
    Noone bought that thing and Apple admitted after terrible sales and community reception "We need to go back to the board" lol  
    Agreed.  Apple is by no means infallible when it comes to tech.  They do seem to be almost infallible when it comes to PR.  They shuffle their failures to the back, quietly and quickly, and move on with their PR for future tech.  A Brilliant company, however, I had an intervention and managed to break away.  That was only slightly more difficult than leaving Scientology.
    blueturtle13laserit

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited June 2017
    mgilbrtsn said:
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Well, there were some that didn't really take off. The Newton (way ahead of its time) and the cube. Keep in mind I'm a huge fan of Apple's products.
    The cube was a joke lol remember the Pippin? Apple actually made a failed game console ugh terrible.
    Or the Tam? Killed off in one year
    Or the Mighty Mouse? Which was surprisingly worse than their failed hockey puck mouse.
    Or their 3rd gen ipod shuffle? terrible technically and commercially. 
    Or even the 2015 macbook.
    Noone bought that thing and Apple admitted after terrible sales and community reception "We need to go back to the board" lol  
    Agreed.  Apple is by no means infallible when it comes to tech.  They do seem to be almost infallible when it comes to PR.  They shuffle their failures to the back, quietly and quickly, and move on with their PR for future tech.  A Brilliant company, however, I had an intervention and managed to break away.  That was only slightly more difficult than leaving Scientology.

    The question is not one of infalliablity.

    The question is when presented two options which one do you think is more successful today in a specific market.

    -Bing is horrible
    -MSN is basically a non-thing even when they came out
    -really all internet apps like maps, youtube etc (if you told me MS would basically not have a serious presence on the internet 20 years ago I would call you crazy)
    -Zune (which was a counter to the iPod which was a HUGELY successful music player)
    -nearly completely missing the entire cell phone market
    -nearly completely missing the entire smart phone market
    -coming VERY late to the party with 'smart pads'
    -a huge expensive Touch device that didnt go anywhere
    -I might even suggest Xbox One was a huge mis-step. not a failure but they have the resources and presence in gaming that Sony should not have been able to out do them

    If you had to make a bet at Vegas that Apple would reveal a product today (not 15 years ago but today) and Microsoft would reveal a product of the same type today but you dont know what that said product is, its more likely a bet to bet on Apple. That is all I have been saying.

    If you were standing next to me and placed a bet on MS I would say 'dont you think Microsoft missing out on cell phones, smart phones, for the most part tablets, all internet services and the explosion of companies like Google, Apple and Amazon is an indication that its not 1993 anymore?'

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,333
    SEANMCAD said:
    mgilbrtsn said:
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Well, there were some that didn't really take off. The Newton (way ahead of its time) and the cube. Keep in mind I'm a huge fan of Apple's products.
    The cube was a joke lol remember the Pippin? Apple actually made a failed game console ugh terrible.
    Or the Tam? Killed off in one year
    Or the Mighty Mouse? Which was surprisingly worse than their failed hockey puck mouse.
    Or their 3rd gen ipod shuffle? terrible technically and commercially. 
    Or even the 2015 macbook.
    Noone bought that thing and Apple admitted after terrible sales and community reception "We need to go back to the board" lol  
    Agreed.  Apple is by no means infallible when it comes to tech.  They do seem to be almost infallible when it comes to PR.  They shuffle their failures to the back, quietly and quickly, and move on with their PR for future tech.  A Brilliant company, however, I had an intervention and managed to break away.  That was only slightly more difficult than leaving Scientology.

    The question is not one of infalliablity.

    The question is when presented two options which one do you think is more successful today in a specific market.

    -Bing is horrible
    -MSN is basically a non-thing even when they came out
    -really all internet apps like maps, youtube etc (if you told me MS would basically not have a serious presence on the internet 20 years ago I would call you crazy)
    -Zune (which was a counter to the iPod which was a HUGELY successful music player)
    -nearly completely missing the entire cell phone market
    -nearly completely missing the entire smart phone market
    -coming VERY late to the party with 'smart pads'
    -a huge expensive Touch device that didnt go anywhere
    -I might even suggest Xbox One was a huge mis-step. not a failure but they have the resources and presence in gaming that Sony should not have been able to out do them

    If you had to make a bet at Vegas that Apple would reveal a product today (not 15 years ago but today) and Microsoft would reveal a product of the same type today but you dont know what that said product is, its more likely a bet to bet on Apple. That is all I have been saying.

    If you were standing next to me and placed a bet on MS I would say 'dont you think Microsoft missing out on cell phones, smart phones, for the most part tablets, all internet services and the explosion of companies like Google, Apple and Amazon is an indication that its not 1993 anymore?'
    I don't disagree that Apple puts out some quality stuff.  That doesn't mean that Microsoft doesn't.  They can both be good companies in their own way.  I would say that Microsoft has pulled up a bit from their nose dive.  Surface is doing well, 10 is good, Xbox is doing well, They're AR seems...seems headed in the right direction.  

    As a general rule, I'm in the googleshphere with most of my automation, other than my PC.  So they can both go pound sand with their gadgets.  I'm not a real advocate for either of them.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited June 2017
    mgilbrtsn said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    mgilbrtsn said:
    Sovrath said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    This seems destined to fail.  Not a fan of any Apple products so it won't affect me either way if it's successful or not.  But I don't really see a huge market for $5000 Macs when you could have an insane PC for half that price.
    has any Apple Product failed? not that I know of
    has any Microsoft Product failed? a lot
    Well, there were some that didn't really take off. The Newton (way ahead of its time) and the cube. Keep in mind I'm a huge fan of Apple's products.
    The cube was a joke lol remember the Pippin? Apple actually made a failed game console ugh terrible.
    Or the Tam? Killed off in one year
    Or the Mighty Mouse? Which was surprisingly worse than their failed hockey puck mouse.
    Or their 3rd gen ipod shuffle? terrible technically and commercially. 
    Or even the 2015 macbook.
    Noone bought that thing and Apple admitted after terrible sales and community reception "We need to go back to the board" lol  
    Agreed.  Apple is by no means infallible when it comes to tech.  They do seem to be almost infallible when it comes to PR.  They shuffle their failures to the back, quietly and quickly, and move on with their PR for future tech.  A Brilliant company, however, I had an intervention and managed to break away.  That was only slightly more difficult than leaving Scientology.

    The question is not one of infalliablity.

    The question is when presented two options which one do you think is more successful today in a specific market.

    -Bing is horrible
    -MSN is basically a non-thing even when they came out
    -really all internet apps like maps, youtube etc (if you told me MS would basically not have a serious presence on the internet 20 years ago I would call you crazy)
    -Zune (which was a counter to the iPod which was a HUGELY successful music player)
    -nearly completely missing the entire cell phone market
    -nearly completely missing the entire smart phone market
    -coming VERY late to the party with 'smart pads'
    -a huge expensive Touch device that didnt go anywhere
    -I might even suggest Xbox One was a huge mis-step. not a failure but they have the resources and presence in gaming that Sony should not have been able to out do them

    If you had to make a bet at Vegas that Apple would reveal a product today (not 15 years ago but today) and Microsoft would reveal a product of the same type today but you dont know what that said product is, its more likely a bet to bet on Apple. That is all I have been saying.

    If you were standing next to me and placed a bet on MS I would say 'dont you think Microsoft missing out on cell phones, smart phones, for the most part tablets, all internet services and the explosion of companies like Google, Apple and Amazon is an indication that its not 1993 anymore?'
    I don't disagree that Apple puts out some quality stuff.  That doesn't mean that Microsoft doesn't.  They can both be good companies in their own way.  I would say that Microsoft has pulled up a bit from their nose dive.  Surface is doing well, 10 is good, Xbox is doing well, They're AR seems...seems headed in the right direction.  

    As a general rule, I'm in the googleshphere with most of my automation, other than my PC.  So they can both go pound sand with their gadgets.  I'm not a real advocate for either of them.
    I am not asking if the stuff is quality or not.
    One thing is for sure the population does not buy the best quality. I am saying ....well..fuck it...what I already said please go back and read it as if you are an investor and both companies had separate stocks for JUST products.

    and again..

    Apple over the past 15 years have had considerably better success at consumer products then microsoft has.

    quality is not important in that statement

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,696
    Microsoft is a software company that happens to make hardware. Apple is a hardware maker that happens to make software.
    Phaserlight

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












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