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PC Gamer: " There's something strange about Ashes of Creation. "

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  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,066
    edited May 2017
    @Slapshot1188

    If it really looks like they're not going to pay you for those Kickstarter referrals, you might want to start contacting Youtubers who spread their referral links so that you can demand answers and payment together.

    It's easy for a large business to ignore a single person. It's much harder for them if a group of popular Youtubers with audience of more than a million start acting together.
    NycteliosSlapshot1188
     
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,700
    Vrika said:
    @Slapshot1188

    If it really looks like they're not going to pay you for those Kickstarter referrals, you might want to start contacting Youtubers who spread their referral links so that you can demand answers and payment together.

    It's easy for a large business to ignore a single person. It's much harder for them if a group of popular Youtubers with audience of more than a million start acting together.
    Yeah. And it might get the attention of some big name that could help you if that is the case and they did wrong - which I'm waiting an official statement still.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • PresciencePrescience Member UncommonPosts: 246
    Nyctelios said:
    Vrika said:
    @Slapshot1188

    If it really looks like they're not going to pay you for those Kickstarter referrals, you might want to start contacting Youtubers who spread their referral links so that you can demand answers and payment together.

    It's easy for a large business to ignore a single person. It's much harder for them if a group of popular Youtubers with audience of more than a million start acting together.
    Yeah. And it might get the attention of some big name that could help you if that is the case and they did wrong - which I'm waiting an official statement still.
    I believe Deltia from Deltia's Gaming was a big promoter. I think he might be a good place to start.
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,000
    Kind of hard to claim damages when nothing of value was lost. 

    I don't think you'll get very far with breach of contract, either.  Go ahead, though; the popcorn is delicious. 
    SBFordGaladournConstantineMerus

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 4 tracks in Distance

    Minecraft server: kyoto.apexmc.co

  • PonziniPonzini Member UncommonPosts: 445
    I asked Steven to again make a statement because of your paranoid asses. He said he is going to so look out for that. Not sure where he will post it yet. 
    SBFord
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,494
    Ponzini said:
    I asked Steven to again make a statement because of your paranoid asses. He said he is going to so look out for that. Not sure where he will post it yet. 
    Hopefully the statement is simply a YES/NO to the question:

    Are Kickstarter Pledges included in the referral system?

    That's really all it takes.  And for those trying to backtrack and claim it was never included, here is a quote from the moderator on their official forums who is giving advice on this very question a few weeks back:


    Shunex Moderator
     May 1, 2017 at 11:26 am #13351
    Shunex

    they need to register a account using your referral link, then they can go to the kickstarter and buy a package, at the end of the kickstarter they will be sent a code to apply on the account then it will show in your stats.


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • Ashes_StevenAshes_Steven Member UncommonPosts: 28
    edited May 2017
    Official Statement:

    Kickstarter has stated that one time financial rewards are acceptable for package pledges on Kickstarter. This was also a part in the PCGamer article,

    I reached out to Kickstarter to see what their policy is on the matter. "Last year we began allowing financial incentives for referrals," they responded. "But we do not allow revenue or profit sharing, which this program essentially offers through its payouts over time."

    As such, Kickstarter asked us to change the language on our referral program. 


    The PCGamer was incorrect however in stating;

    In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.

    This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer. MassivelyOP has now today issued an article based on the PCGamer reporting.


    Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.

    Intrepid Studios is in close communications with Kickstarter, as we are now their 10th highest funded Video Game project ever.



    Let me be clear on another point;

    It is COMPLETELY within your rights to be skeptical of our ability to deliver.  It is 100% your choice to participate in our project at this stage or any other stage in the future.  We do not want someone who is uncomfortable with Ashes of Creation to participate in our crowdsourcing.  Everyone at Intrepid Studios is passionately working to make Ashes a game that will make every MMORPG player proud.  Honestly, proud.  If you disagree with a feature, or you don't like the referral program, do not participate in it. 

    What is not cool, is the character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to our community or our studios.  We are more than that as a community.  If you have legitimate concerns or comments, by all means voice them.  But try to remember, there are real human beings behind these computer screens.
    GaladournSlapshot1188PonziniForgrimmblorpykinsblueturtle13laxiebcbullyPhaserlightTindale111and 3 others.
    Happy to be with you fine ladies and gentlemen on MMORPG.com, hope to participate in healthy discussions about our favorite genre.

    Founder/Creative Director @ Intrepid Studios
    Building upcoming MMORPG  Ashes of Creation
    Discord

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,494
    edited May 2017
    Official Statement:


    In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.

    This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer. MassivelyOP has now today issued an article based on the PCGamer reporting.


    Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.


    Thank you for posting that.  I will join you in calling for a retraction on both sites.

    To be clear, if my referrals purchase $1000 in pledges I will see a $150 credit that I can ask you to send as cash correct?
     
    Edit to add:  Also this part is very troubling

    The PCGamer was incorrect however in stating;

    In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.

    This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer


    If the author outright lied, there should be repercussions. At a minimum he should issue a public apology.


    YashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • PonziniPonzini Member UncommonPosts: 445
    Official Statement:

    Kickstarter has stated that one time financial rewards are acceptable for package pledges on Kickstarter. This was also a part in the PCGamer article,

    I reached out to Kickstarter to see what their policy is on the matter. "Last year we began allowing financial incentives for referrals," they responded. "But we do not allow revenue or profit sharing, which this program essentially offers through its payouts over time."

    As such, Kickstarter asked us to change the language on our referral program. 


    The PCGamer was incorrect however in stating;

    In response to PC Gamer's inquiry, Kickstarter told me they've informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.

    This is an outright lie, and we have sent a request for a retraction from PCGamer. MassivelyOP has now today issued an article based on the PCGamer reporting.


    Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.

    Intrepid Studios is in close communications with Kickstarter, as we are now their 10th highest funded Video Game project ever.



    Let me be clear on another point;

    It is COMPLETELY within your rights to be skeptical of our ability to deliver.  It is 100% your choice to participate in our project at this stage or any other stage in the future.  We do not want someone who is uncomfortable with Ashes of Creation to participate in our crowdsourcing.  Everyone at Intrepid Studios is passionately working to make Ashes a game that will make every MMORPG player proud.  Honestly, proud.  If you disagree with a feature, or you don't like the referral program, do not participate in it. 

    What is not cool, is the character assassination, lying, trolling or outright rudeness to our community or our studios.  We are more than that as a community.  If you have legitimate concerns or comments, by all means voice them.  But try to remember, there are real human beings behind these computer screens.
    Thank you Steven! 
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    So apparently KS is now a platform for revenue sharing affiliate marketing - one step closer to becoming an MLM company itself.

    Good to know, I won't ever be backing anything on their site ever again.
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,000
    So it looks like some people will indeed be seeing thousands of dollars in the near term for simply referring people to the Kickstarter.  That's amazing.  Mitzvah!
    Slapshot1188

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 4 tracks in Distance

    Minecraft server: kyoto.apexmc.co

  • SwordeBeemeLordSwordeBeemeLord Member Posts: 25
    Thanks for telling me my rights Steven, just go easy on the handcuffs, I'm a frail bee.
  • PresciencePrescience Member UncommonPosts: 246
    edited May 2017
    Well, it's the other sides turn now. MassivelyOP has updated their article to reflect Steven Sharif's statement. The strange thing is why PCGamer is taking so long to retract if that's indeed what they need to do. They could be liable if they don't comply. Then on the other hand Kickstarter could be telling them something different.

    Update: Steven Sharif has posted that Kickstarter did indeed request that his team “change the language on [its] referral program” but claims that PC Gamer issued an “outright lie” when the publication wrote, “In response to PC Gamer’s inquiry, Kickstarter told me they’ve informed Intrepid Studios, which has removed Kickstarter pledges from its referral program.”

    Sharif says he’s requested a retraction from PC Gamer, but as I type this, PC Gamer has not granted that request for reasons unknown to us. Sharif says that “pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it’s policy of a ‘financial incentive for referrals’ and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.”

    We’ll update when we know more.

    http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/27/ashes-of-creation-revises-referral-program-unlocks-underrealm-race-and-shows-freehold-housing/

    Nyctelios
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,494
    More from Massively:

    Bree Royce

    To be clear, no one’s contacted me about any error in our piece. PC Gamer has not retracted it as I type this either. I am a little bit skeptical of the mobbing of the PC Gamer author (accusing him of lying is waaay over the top – there’s no reason whatsoever to think he “lied” – it’s far more likely that there’s terminology confusion or that Kickstarter miscommunicated what was going on during that interview). I’m going to update to acknowledge the ongoing dispute, but that’s it for now until it’s clear what’s going on.


    NycteliosYashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • PresciencePrescience Member UncommonPosts: 246
    edited May 2017
    I'm pretty sure PC Gamer would immediately retract if this was the case. I'm not sure what the problem is here. I'm also having trouble grasping why Steven Messner would lie and endanger his entire reputation for no gain whatsoever, it seems unlikely. 

    Kickstarter rules: https://www.kickstarter.com/rules
  • PresciencePrescience Member UncommonPosts: 246
    edited May 2017
    I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.


    Bree Royce
    Nyctelios
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,494
    I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.


    Bree Royce

    Cringe. Not sure whom he thinks that’s helping. :/

    I'm going to assume that Steven posted the truth here so I will defend him.

    If I were the subject of an article and it got something really important wrong like this I would be pissed too.  I wish he had simply posted yes/no to the question instead of the really long answer that I still struggle to parse, but it seems like it was a YES, the Kickstarter Pledges count for the referral system based on the first phrase in his answer.

    The author claimed the opposite.. and when there are $2.5M pledged to the Kickstarter that is a BIG mistake.   If Kickstarter told him this, as he stated in his article he should immediately make that communication public.  If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.


    Nyctelios

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited May 2017
    I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.


    Bree Royce
    I do think it's questionable to use reddit as a source, anyone can write anything there with little in the way of accountability. It's not much different than if he were to use our posts as a source for an investigative article. 


    ManWithNoTan

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    edited May 2017
      If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.

    That is going way to far.

    Revenue sharing vs. one time revenue share incentive is not exactly a clear distinction. He actually exposed a huge potential problem which is his job.

    YashaX
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    edited May 2017
    I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.


    Bree Royce
    You can invite people to join you on another site to take part in your discussion without linking all of the comments back and forth between you and one of their writers.

    If you want to participate in the discussion, please do. Simply copy / pasting links or comments from another site doesn't really add much to the discussion. 

    You have a lot to say. So say what YOU have to say as you have been!
    Nyctelios


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • PonziniPonzini Member UncommonPosts: 445
    I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.


    Bree Royce

    Cringe. Not sure whom he thinks that’s helping. :/

    I'm going to assume that Steven posted the truth here so I will defend him.

    If I were the subject of an article and it got something really important wrong like this I would be pissed too.  I wish he had simply posted yes/no to the question instead of the really long answer that I still struggle to parse, but it seems like it was a YES, the Kickstarter Pledges count for the referral system based on the first phrase in his answer.

    The author claimed the opposite.. and when there are $2.5M pledged to the Kickstarter that is a BIG mistake.   If Kickstarter told him this, as he stated in his article he should immediately make that communication public.  If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.


    Why do you only understand yes or no? It wasn't a confusing post.

    "Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter."

    It doesn't get any more crystal clear than that. *facepalm*
  • PresciencePrescience Member UncommonPosts: 246
    Jacobin said:
      If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.

    That is going way to far.

    Revenue sharing vs. one time revenue share incentive is not exactly a clear distinction. He actually exposed a huge potential problem which is his job.

    I do agree and if it is NOT retracted and is wrong PC Gamer is going to be shouldering the liability. That's what doesn't make sense to me. Something like this would IMMEDIATELY be removed in most situations or responded to promptly eg. MassivelyOp. They should have a way to verify this or have a way to contact Messner. 

    PC Gamer is a twenty-three year old company it's not some fly-by-night news contributor. 
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,494
    Ponzini said:
    I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.


    Bree Royce

    Cringe. Not sure whom he thinks that’s helping. :/

    I'm going to assume that Steven posted the truth here so I will defend him.

    If I were the subject of an article and it got something really important wrong like this I would be pissed too.  I wish he had simply posted yes/no to the question instead of the really long answer that I still struggle to parse, but it seems like it was a YES, the Kickstarter Pledges count for the referral system based on the first phrase in his answer.

    The author claimed the opposite.. and when there are $2.5M pledged to the Kickstarter that is a BIG mistake.   If Kickstarter told him this, as he stated in his article he should immediately make that communication public.  If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.


    Why do you only understand yes or no? It wasn't a confusing post.

    "Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter."

    It doesn't get any more crystal clear than that. *facepalm*
    Look Im defending the guy.. why make it difficult?

    My point is why couldn't he have stopped at:
    Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it

    What does this part add other than to qualify the first part?  
    that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter.

    Rule #1... keep it simple.

    SBFordDistopiaNycteliosYashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Ponzini said:
    I have more from MassivelyOP after someone posted more of Steven Sharif refuting PC Gamer.


    Bree Royce

    Cringe. Not sure whom he thinks that’s helping. :/

    I'm going to assume that Steven posted the truth here so I will defend him.

    If I were the subject of an article and it got something really important wrong like this I would be pissed too.  I wish he had simply posted yes/no to the question instead of the really long answer that I still struggle to parse, but it seems like it was a YES, the Kickstarter Pledges count for the referral system based on the first phrase in his answer.

    The author claimed the opposite.. and when there are $2.5M pledged to the Kickstarter that is a BIG mistake.   If Kickstarter told him this, as he stated in his article he should immediately make that communication public.  If he made it up, IMHO he should be fired.


    Why do you only understand yes or no? It wasn't a confusing post.

    "Pledges from Kickstarter will have the referral reward associated with it, that reflects it's policy of a "financial incentive for referrals" and remains in accordance with their policies and procedures at Kickstarter."

    It doesn't get any more crystal clear than that. *facepalm*
    It's always best to side with caution on matters like this, especially when it's he said vs he said. While it looks clear, you can never be 100% certain there isn't some fine print left out of such an answer. So I understand why Slap would take that position, a flat yes or no is simply a better answer than carefully worded legalese. 
    Nyctelios

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • PonziniPonzini Member UncommonPosts: 445
    I guess I am just irritated that I had to ask Steven to come back to essentially say the same thing because people are so paranoid. He was being specific because you guys like to pick apart all of his posts letting you know it remains in accordance with kickstarters policy. If he hadn't said that one of these other bozos would be still on that subject as well. 

    I need to take a break from trying to ease all your minds. lol 
    Distopia
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