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Will my character have standard MMORPG mechanics (when outside of the ship)?

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  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    Its fine if you want to say they are a MMO still in development but don't come in here saying they are an MMO pushing the genre forward when they actually haven't done anything new or other games have beaten them to the punch

    I say both, it is one MMO in development, and in my opinion, they will easily push the genre forward when they get the networking to support the gameplay mechanics and tech they already have.

    As for the rest, it's not only ideas on paper, stuff is actively under development on the network front, they are long-term projects as Item 2.0 was (and today we are seeing the fruits and things they are now being able to do after such lengthy engine rewrite).

    Time will tell what will their engineers be able to achieve on this.
    Ok I can respect your opinion but you should be questioning them when they tell you they aren't sure if there are any engineer methods to increase the player count. 

    Ok itmight be under development but it's not released in any form that backers can notice on the PU. If they release some network update that fixes the stupid issues they have created for themselves and if it pushes the genre forward somehow then I'll relent. 

    Your last point is agreeing with me in an indirect way. Time will tell what their engineers will achieve on this. Yes it will and that's what I'm saying. You can't claim the game is pushing the envelope in one breath and then in another say well you have to wait and see what they can do. Those 2 statements are in direct opposition of each other.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,495
    Kefo said:
    You can't claim the game is pushing the envelope in one breath and then in another say well you have to wait and see what they can do. Those 2 statements are in direct opposition of each other.
    Well simple, I do think they will achieve stuff within that aspect, to bring the MMO vibe to SC, as I do think that will take its time to achieve, so when time is tell is not "IF" for me, it's to what extent, because the base of such network is a must-happen, there's no way around that one.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    You can't claim the game is pushing the envelope in one breath and then in another say well you have to wait and see what they can do. Those 2 statements are in direct opposition of each other.
    Well simple, I do think they will achieve stuff within that aspect, to bring the MMO vibe to SC, as I do think that will take its time to achieve, so when time is tell is not "IF" for me, it's to what extent, because the base of such network is a must-happen, there's no way around that one.
    Alright. So then why did you respond to my original question of what have they done blah blah and argue that this is what they have done and they are awesome for it?
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,495
    Kefo said:
    Alright. So then why did you respond to my original question of what have they done blah blah and argue that this is what they have done and they are awesome for it?
    That was a 2nd point towards the MMO side of it, that is stuff to come. I did address what I thought of it as it is right now on what's available.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    Alright. So then why did you respond to my original question of what have they done blah blah and argue that this is what they have done and they are awesome for it?
    That was a 2nd point towards the MMO side of it, that is stuff to come. I did address what I thought of it as it is right now on what's available.
    And I specifically said I don't want ideas or things on paper cause you can't claim it's game changing if it doesn't actually exist
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,495
    Kefo said:
    And I specifically said I don't want ideas or things on paper cause you can't claim it's game changing if it doesn't actually exist
    Because you compare a game under development that is by nature is always changing, with fully released games.

    The entire point is about what it will be, even the fans of ED still use this logic today.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    And I specifically said I don't want ideas or things on paper cause you can't claim it's game changing if it doesn't actually exist
    Because you compare a game under development that is by nature is always changing, with fully released games.

    The entire point is about what it will be, even the fans of ED still use this logic today.
    I actually haven't. I will say it again. I asked what features have they put in that everyone keeps claiming are cutting edge or never done before. Ideas on paper don't count because they are just that and any idiot can make promises.

    So far I have gotten answers about features that either exist in other games or that don't actually exist in SC. 

    And we aren't talking about E:D so not sure why you brought it up except to try and use it as a distraction.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,495
    edited May 2017
    Kefo said:
    I actually haven't. I will say it again. I asked what features have they put in that everyone keeps claiming are cutting edge or never done before. Ideas on paper don't count because they are just that and any idiot can make promises.

    So far I have gotten answers about features that either exist in other games or that don't actually exist in SC. 
    You play specific features, I play one game, and that game experience is unique. \o/


    I know you just ask for standalone features so you can say "Oh look another game has done that feature before!", but that is not what makes one unique game, its gameplay is.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    I actually haven't. I will say it again. I asked what features have they put in that everyone keeps claiming are cutting edge or never done before. Ideas on paper don't count because they are just that and any idiot can make promises.

    So far I have gotten answers about features that either exist in other games or that don't actually exist in SC. 
    You play specific features, I play one game, and that game experience is unique. \o/


    I know you just ask for standalone features so you can say "Oh look another game has done that feature before!", but that is not what makes one unique game, its gameplay is.
    And there isn't a lot of gameplay in SC is there? Gameplay is made up of different features coming together. If you all want to say you think it's fun that's fine but saying it's ground breaking when it is not if people can't even rattle off an example that hasn't been done before
  • adamlotus75adamlotus75 Member UncommonPosts: 387
    I thought the official SC FAQ said the game is not an MMO.  Its a sub-MMO but its being talked about like a super-MMO. Why?
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,185
    I thought the official SC FAQ said the game is not an MMO.  Its a sub-MMO but its being talked about like a super-MMO. Why?
    Because they want to avoid the MMO definition that would cause certain expectations. Star Citizen is in its own class, and should be compared to other games only when it's doing something better, not when it's doing something worse.
    Kefo
     
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,495
    edited May 2017
    @adamlotus75 @Vrika ;That was on Kickstarter, SC was not put boldly as one MMO simply because the game was meant to support Offline Play / Private servers (side of the obvious SP Campaign SQ42), so they refrained from describing SC as one MMO.

    Today it's already known offline/private servers are features the game will not release with, without them SC retains only its MMO aspect, the online persistent universe shared across all players, and that is why on the site they now put MMO in its description.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    edited May 2017
    Twisted77 said:
    I'm about to close this thread as my question has been mostly answered, yet this thread seems to be spiraling into all types of topics.

    Question for Erillion/MaxBacon - I wasn't aware that the current tech only allows 20-30 players in an instance... that's really low.  Will 3.0 fix this?  If not, what is the ultimate release goals around players in the same instance?

    Not a big Eve player, but they had some epic PVP battles with hundreds of concurrent players... maybe because this is a space sim, I was expecting/assuming the same...
    The ultimate goal is per Erin Roberts 100.000+ players, I guess he meant in total on a galaxy server ... the number 1000+ Players per instance has been mentioned more often.

    You have to understand that during the 5+ year development everything has been promised ... - imagine it and it will be done - But per the latest ATV show yesterday the 3 game programmers in Frankfurt are now working on the Doors.

    With the network stuff we have a different problem, the quest NPC Miles has i.e. 550.000 Polygons (Aloy from Horizon has 300k + 100k for Nvidia Hairs). the Ship Hulls have often 1mil+ polys. there you may have an optimal rig to render everything at 60+Frames but the guy next to you maybe not and we are working on UDP here so the server is guessing what happens, there will be a discrepancy due to Graphics lag of  other clients. - Client is lagging - sends wrong position to server - Server is guessing what happens next - sends it out to other clients - likely result: 2 Characters are on the same spot because one of them was lagging -> Physic engine will go wild and sends one client with max V into nothingness.
    This Situation is based on client lag which is always a big problem and which is the reason why online game graphic is 5+ years outdated to simply avoid server load due to graphic lag.
    On Top of this we have the massive data packs sent over the network, like their 64bit stuff (which I still insist was one of their stupiest moves ever) which results in 2^31 more data for every vector (positional, V) for every network shared GO.

    Edit: AWS is subpar for MMO type games
    Sunojibjab

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,495
    edited May 2017
    Turrican187 said:
    But per the latest ATV show yesterday the 3 game programmers in Frankfurt are now working on the Doors.
    You, the one who supposedly works on development should know better as to what the Frankfurt studio works on, the Engine team and the cinematics team is most of it. A studio that on the past times started to assemble one game programming team...

    Yet, you felt the need to reply the guy stating that? Your point is...?  Just trolling?
    Hmmmm!
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • BalmongBalmong Member UncommonPosts: 170
    edited May 2017
    Twisted77 said:
    I'm about to close this thread as my question has been mostly answered, yet this thread seems to be spiraling into all types of topics.

    Question for Erillion/MaxBacon - I wasn't aware that the current tech only allows 20-30 players in an instance... that's really low.  Will 3.0 fix this?  If not, what is the ultimate release goals around players in the same instance?

    Not a big Eve player, but they had some epic PVP battles with hundreds of concurrent players... maybe because this is a space sim, I was expecting/assuming the same...
    The ultimate goal is per Erin Roberts 100.000+ players, I guess he meant in total on a galaxy server ... the number 1000+ Players per instance has been mentioned more often.

    You have to understand that during the 5+ year development everything has been promised ... - imagine it and it will be done - But per the latest ATV show yesterday the 3 game programmers in Frankfurt are now working on the Doors.

    With the network stuff we have a different problem, the quest NPC Miles has i.e. 550.000 Polygons (Aloy from Horizon has 300k + 100k for Nvidia Hairs). the Ship Hulls have often 1mil+ polys. there you may have an optimal rig to render everything at 60+Frames but the guy next to you maybe not and we are working on UDP here so the server is guessing what happens, there will be a discrepancy due to Graphics lag of  other clients. - Client is lagging - sends wrong position to server - Server is guessing what happens next - sends it out to other clients - likely result: 2 Characters are on the same spot because one of them was lagging -> Physic engine will go wild and sends one client with max V into nothingness.
    This Situation is based on client lag which is always a big problem and which is the reason why online game graphic is 5+ years outdated to simply avoid server load due to graphic lag.
    On Top of this we have the massive data packs sent over the network, like their 64bit stuff (which I still insist was one of their stupiest moves ever) which results in 2^31 more data for every vector (positional, V) for every network shared GO.

    Edit: AWS is subpar for MMO type games
    You're really excited for the doors huh? 
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    edited May 2017
    MaxBacon said:
    Turrican187 said:
    But per the latest ATV show yesterday the 3 game programmers in Frankfurt are now working on the Doors.
    You, the one who supposedly works on development should know better as to what the Frankfurt studio works on, the Engine team and the cinematics team is most of it. A studio that on the past times started to assemble one game programming team...

    Yet, you felt the need to reply the guy stating that? Your point is...?  Just trolling?
    Hmmmm!
    Hu? no I was just baffled, I surely know that FFM is mostly working on engine but why are they employing 2 people (with one teir2) to work on doors ???
    and WTF is going on here at

    I was able to hear him just saying that ... now its just background music ....

    Edit ... Youtube Timemarks ... t=8m43s
    Sunojibjab

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    Balmong said:
    Twisted77 said:
    I'm about to close this thread as my question has been mostly answered, yet this thread seems to be spiraling into all types of topics.

    Question for Erillion/MaxBacon - I wasn't aware that the current tech only allows 20-30 players in an instance... that's really low.  Will 3.0 fix this?  If not, what is the ultimate release goals around players in the same instance?

    Not a big Eve player, but they had some epic PVP battles with hundreds of concurrent players... maybe because this is a space sim, I was expecting/assuming the same...
    The ultimate goal is per Erin Roberts 100.000+ players, I guess he meant in total on a galaxy server ... the number 1000+ Players per instance has been mentioned more often.

    You have to understand that during the 5+ year development everything has been promised ... - imagine it and it will be done - But per the latest ATV show yesterday the 3 game programmers in Frankfurt are now working on the Doors.

    With the network stuff we have a different problem, the quest NPC Miles has i.e. 550.000 Polygons (Aloy from Horizon has 300k + 100k for Nvidia Hairs). the Ship Hulls have often 1mil+ polys. there you may have an optimal rig to render everything at 60+Frames but the guy next to you maybe not and we are working on UDP here so the server is guessing what happens, there will be a discrepancy due to Graphics lag of  other clients. - Client is lagging - sends wrong position to server - Server is guessing what happens next - sends it out to other clients - likely result: 2 Characters are on the same spot because one of them was lagging -> Physic engine will go wild and sends one client with max V into nothingness.
    This Situation is based on client lag which is always a big problem and which is the reason why online game graphic is 5+ years outdated to simply avoid server load due to graphic lag.
    On Top of this we have the massive data packs sent over the network, like their 64bit stuff (which I still insist was one of their stupiest moves ever) which results in 2^31 more data for every vector (positional, V) for every network shared GO.

    Edit: AWS is subpar for MMO type games
    You're really excited for the doors huh? 
    http://kotaku.com/designing-a-video-game-as-illustrated-by-doors-1774319142
    SunojibjabBalmong

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member EpicPosts: 3,759
    Loving those doors! Glad to see a dev going at it despite all the odds.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,495
    edited May 2017
    Hu? no I was just baffled, I surely know that FFM is mostly working on engine but why are they employing 2 people (with one teir2) to work on doors ???
    and WTF is going on here at
    I was able to hear him just saying that ... now its just background music ....

    From the schedule: "We are starting to update the doors and airlocks within the game to be more intelligent. In time, this would mean that the door would ‘know’ if a room beyond them is depressurised and would stay shut for safety."

    So this showing to be based on simulation, over the necessary conversion of systems (as this one) to new engine tech that was rewritten, that is Item 2.0. Seems far more complex than just adding functional doors.
  • BalmongBalmong Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Balmong said:
    Twisted77 said:
    I'm about to close this thread as my question has been mostly answered, yet this thread seems to be spiraling into all types of topics.

    Question for Erillion/MaxBacon - I wasn't aware that the current tech only allows 20-30 players in an instance... that's really low.  Will 3.0 fix this?  If not, what is the ultimate release goals around players in the same instance?

    Not a big Eve player, but they had some epic PVP battles with hundreds of concurrent players... maybe because this is a space sim, I was expecting/assuming the same...
    The ultimate goal is per Erin Roberts 100.000+ players, I guess he meant in total on a galaxy server ... the number 1000+ Players per instance has been mentioned more often.

    You have to understand that during the 5+ year development everything has been promised ... - imagine it and it will be done - But per the latest ATV show yesterday the 3 game programmers in Frankfurt are now working on the Doors.

    With the network stuff we have a different problem, the quest NPC Miles has i.e. 550.000 Polygons (Aloy from Horizon has 300k + 100k for Nvidia Hairs). the Ship Hulls have often 1mil+ polys. there you may have an optimal rig to render everything at 60+Frames but the guy next to you maybe not and we are working on UDP here so the server is guessing what happens, there will be a discrepancy due to Graphics lag of  other clients. - Client is lagging - sends wrong position to server - Server is guessing what happens next - sends it out to other clients - likely result: 2 Characters are on the same spot because one of them was lagging -> Physic engine will go wild and sends one client with max V into nothingness.
    This Situation is based on client lag which is always a big problem and which is the reason why online game graphic is 5+ years outdated to simply avoid server load due to graphic lag.
    On Top of this we have the massive data packs sent over the network, like their 64bit stuff (which I still insist was one of their stupiest moves ever) which results in 2^31 more data for every vector (positional, V) for every network shared GO.

    Edit: AWS is subpar for MMO type games
    You're really excited for the doors huh? 
    http://kotaku.com/designing-a-video-game-as-illustrated-by-doors-1774319142
    Well that explains all the references, makes more sense now. I thought everyone was still trying to snipe over that door in the CIG LA offices that some people tried to make a big fuss over, around the same time they also tried to convince others that Devs/Programmers aren't militant about their coffee.
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