Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Lets get real regarding the graphics in Pantheon

12346»

Comments

  • okamilla44okamilla44 Member CommonPosts: 1
    For me, the game is too good to care about the graphics. 
  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 499
    Ozmodan said:
    The graphics are ok, but the animations are horrid.  Hopefully that improves before release.
    too true.  You would think that by now there would be some basic but passable public domain/open source animation scripts adaptable to most graphics engines, and that any game company could easily avoid having animations that look as terrible as pantheons.
  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 499
    Recore said:
    The graphics are not the problem. 

    Its the bland gameplay.
    Yeah, that gameplay made my eyes bleed.

    It looks like the graphics are the best part of the game.
    Sadly this is true too.  The combat looks considerably slower than even FFXIV, which to me was already painfully slow and static.  Better animations could help fill in the static appearance but only to a very limited point.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Dvora said:
    Recore said:
    The graphics are not the problem. 

    Its the bland gameplay.
    Yeah, that gameplay made my eyes bleed.

    It looks like the graphics are the best part of the game.
    Sadly this is true too.  The combat looks considerably slower than even FFXIV, which to me was already painfully slow and static.  Better animations could help fill in the static appearance but only to a very limited point.
    FFXiV was awful. Had like 3 abilities at level 15 which I spammed nonstop. Let's not compare something so horrible filled with invisible walls to even an alpha Pantheon. total joke.
    Nanfoodle


  • QuillimQuillim Member UncommonPosts: 83
    edited May 2017
    Dvora said:
    Recore said:
    The graphics are not the problem. 

    Its the bland gameplay.
    Yeah, that gameplay made my eyes bleed.

    It looks like the graphics are the best part of the game.
    Sadly this is true too.  The combat looks considerably slower than even FFXIV, which to me was already painfully slow and static.  Better animations could help fill in the static appearance but only to a very limited point.
    What they showed was indicative of the EQ1 experience killing a mob, and handling adds if necessary. As stated, to effectively(as in, you don't fall asleep) kill mobs in EQ, it always tended to be a case of technique, teamwork, and often class selection(the famed Holy Trinity, for instance) for OP methods, to minimize downtime. At which point, it becomes more of a flow, and you don't want to poke your eyes out.

    Basically, you keep busy enough such that you lose track of the time.

    Edit: And to be perfectly honest.. for EQ1-style gameplay, the graphics aren't that bad. Granted, they aren't cutting edge... but i've seen some very crappy graphics in cutting edge games when it comes to player movement.

    Also.. there is a point in their videos where a person walked through another, and you see their face and teeth from behind. Flat out.. THAT IS EVERQUEST 1 CODE. PERIOD. No two ways about it. I've seen that Exact Thing way too many times when zoning into Guild Lobby back in the day. It was instant recognition and its not something you can just happen upon, they are flatout using (probably large) segments of the codebase from EQ1 for this game.

    If thats the case, they probably have access to the scripting engine(still one of the most advanced ever made) for raids. Granted, Brad almost certainly got access(legal reasons) to use it as part of the deal when he came back in 2013 and kept it on the down-low, but actually making a new game off the Everquest 1 Code Base with some updates and tied into Unity.. just lol. I'm so pre-sold on this.
    Post edited by Quillim on
    [Deleted User]Siug
  • jpedrote52jpedrote52 Member UncommonPosts: 112
    Dvora said:
    Recore said:
    The graphics are not the problem. 

    Its the bland gameplay.
    Yeah, that gameplay made my eyes bleed.

    It looks like the graphics are the best part of the game.
    Sadly this is true too.  The combat looks considerably slower than even FFXIV, which to me was already painfully slow and static.  Better animations could help fill in the static appearance but only to a very limited point.
    Combat in ffxiv is slow because of the huge global cooldown, 2.5 secs, the combat in Pantheon is not slow, you can spam the shit out of your abilities if you wanna, (the global cooldown seems to be 0.5 secs), but it's not the best way to play because you'll quickly run out of mana, or energy or pull aggro and you'll die. There will be moments where you do need to speed up your gameplay, normally when you pull to much, or someone dies, but if everything goes according to plan, easy encounters like the outdoor ones will be calm if you have a full group.

    What they've shown so far is pre-pre-alpha combat and balance in relatively low level characters (lvl 10-20), it's safe to assume that combat will only get more complex from here on out, we've still not seen any raid encounters, or fully scripted bosses with complex mechanics, I'll just say wait and see it will change for sure.
  • linadragonlinadragon Member RarePosts: 589
    Gdemami said:
    Dullahan said:
    They have plenty of time to add similar light, shadow, camera fx and higher quality object and npc animations. 
    That is nothing a time could fix - for the former, they are limited by engine capabilities, for the latter they lack resources.

    There is no way Unity game could ever look anywhere close  as game made in Unreal engine. Room for improvement? Sure, but it will always look dated due realistic theme and engine limitations.

    Unity graphics engine is rather weak, unlike Unreal where graphics is what the engine excels at.
    This is completely untrue in general terms as I've seen games in unity that have done a spectacular job graphically speaking. Most modern engines (including unity) are fully capable of much the same feature set (though some of the particle effects and the like in unreal are better at the moment). Most people tend to base their opinion of game engines off demos or art assets they have seen vs actual games developed in those engines. 

    A prime example of a unity game looking as good as unreal counterparts would be Osiris : New Dawn. I thought it was developed in unreal before looking and realizing it was in unity, though I guess the skybox in a survival game not having a blindingly ridiculous light from the sun should of been a solid give away that it wasn't UE4. 

    Don't get me wrong UE4 is currently the best engine out there as far as middleware engines go, but this idea of them not being able to look as good is simply asinine as the way most games look is fully reliant on their art assets more than anything else. 
    GdemamiSlyLoK
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Pay no attention to mr trollolol. Nothing in unreal can't be done in unity. It's just that unreal is easier to make look good out of the box.
    Gdemami


  • QuillimQuillim Member UncommonPosts: 83
    edited May 2017
    Dullahan said:
    Pay no attention to mr trollolol. Nothing in unreal can't be done in unity. It's just that unreal is easier to make look good out of the box.

    That's all fine and good... but what they are showing in their streams is the Everquest 1 game itself with Pantheon-specific mods(i.e. better character models/animation, different spells/abilities/button windows, etc). It may use Unity for the resources, they may be updating certain things in their own way, but the codebase they're running is EQ1, through and through.


    Nanfoodle[Deleted User]svann[Deleted User]Dullahan
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,713
    Quillim said:
    Dullahan said:
    Pay no attention to mr trollolol. Nothing in unreal can't be done in unity. It's just that unreal is easier to make look good out of the box.

    That's all fine and good... but what they are showing in their streams is the Everquest 1 game itself with Pantheon-specific mods(i.e. better character models/animation, different spells/abilities/button windows, etc). It may use Unity for the resources, they may be updating certain things in their own way, but the codebase they're running is EQ1, through and through.


    Do you even know what game engine EQ1 used? Do you know what Pantheon uses? Or you just trying to stir the pot? 
  • QuillimQuillim Member UncommonPosts: 83
    edited May 2017
    Nanfoodle said:
    Quillim said:
    Dullahan said:
    Pay no attention to mr trollolol. Nothing in unreal can't be done in unity. It's just that unreal is easier to make look good out of the box.

    That's all fine and good... but what they are showing in their streams is the Everquest 1 game itself with Pantheon-specific mods(i.e. better character models/animation, different spells/abilities/button windows, etc). It may use Unity for the resources, they may be updating certain things in their own way, but the codebase they're running is EQ1, through and through.


    Do you even know what game engine EQ1 used? Do you know what Pantheon uses? Or you just trying to stir the pot? 

    I've played EQ1 in the past 5 years and spent years playing the game. Have you? At first I thought, well they're close but maybe they're just riding similar ground.. but then...



    Smoking Gun is @ 1:14:57. Anyone who has played EQ1 will instantly recognize the graphical artifacts when the monk collides with Aradune.

    I don't care what they say or tell you. I program for a living. You don't get that level of graphical tick exactness without using the same codebase and engine(new model skins, environments, and effects of course). I don't really think its a bad thing what they're doing, particularly if Brad got signoff for it in 2013 as part of his deal. I'm not trying to piss on it.

    A lot of people see EQ1 and think 1999.. but it had 15 years of active development(beyond just a new boilerplate expansion) by the time Brad would have gotten it in 2013 and he's had like 3 years to drop in some updates. But the core game contains a lot of subsystems and code at a maturity level that no MMORPG that isn't WoW can match. As an example, the Housing System that was added in 2010 with House of Thule is huge and provided ways to be able to place 3D objects(even your items) inside of 3D environments at will and have them convert to 3D objects(putting your weapon on a wall), along with then being able to convert them to icon and buy/sell 3D objects on vendor or through the cash shop.

    If he has access to all this and can generate a new game on top of the existing subsystems, he'll save tens of millions of dollars and years of work.
    Post edited by Quillim on
    Gdemami[Deleted User]DullahanNanfoodle
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,229
    edited May 2017
    I have seen that kind of no-collision graphics artifacts in other games.
    Dullahan
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    Quillim said:

    I don't care what they say or tell you. I program for a living. You don't get that level of graphical tick exactness without using the same codebase and engine(new model skins, environments, and effects of course). I don't really think its a bad thing what they're doing, particularly if Brad got signoff for it in 2013 as part of his deal. I'm not trying to piss on it.

    It's not the same engine. Pantheon uses the Unity Engine and it didn't exist when EQ was developed. Pantheon is advertised on the Unity site. Go look for yourself.
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • QuillimQuillim Member UncommonPosts: 83
    edited May 2017
    Quillim said:

    I don't care what they say or tell you. I program for a living. You don't get that level of graphical tick exactness without using the same codebase and engine(new model skins, environments, and effects of course). I don't really think its a bad thing what they're doing, particularly if Brad got signoff for it in 2013 as part of his deal. I'm not trying to piss on it.

    It's not the same engine. Pantheon uses the Unity Engine and it didn't exist when EQ was developed. Pantheon is advertised on the Unity site. Go look for yourself.

    EQ1 was under active development for 15 years. Long after Unity came around.

    I'm quite sure Pantheon uses Unity to some extent.

    I'm also quite sure it utilizes code from EQ1.

    If they were building something completely new here, it would look wildly different in structure using modern techniques. There are certainly far better ones for 3D graphics than using EQ1's style of modeling and gameplay. Remember, that's what this thread was originally about. Why the graphical look is so dated. Its dated, because they're updating EQ1 with a new look and feel, and making it into a different game. This isn't actually the first time either. Remember Star Wars Galaxies back in the day? They've done it before. And if they're doing that, they get a boatload of modern tools along with it that are priceless.

    Once again, to this day, there are few MMORPG's with as much complexity and development on them as EQ1. Its easy to dismiss it because its old, but it has most of the bells and whistles under the hood of any modern mmo including full mapping(player created, no less), raiding, instancing(with lockouts), the raid scripting engine, guild management tools, in-game housing,  guild halls, etc).

    Its like a sportscar with a volkswagon body lolz. It just looks like crap. If Brad can fix that second part, while keeping the first... he could have something that is very easy to expand and cheap af to run.

    Ashes of Creation being a good example with a more modern look utilizing modern graphical abilities that looks nothing like EQ1. But then, they also don't have access to the subsystems and have to generate each and every one they use. Lets see how long that takes...

    Edit: There is also one thing that EQ1 utilized that I have never really seen replicated since. In particular, there is an interaction between PC's to the environment. This, in turn, gave the ability to use the environment as part of the fight. The infamous AOW pin if you will. Also, this came into play with large characters trying to navigate small spaces needing shrink and/or illusion along with having differing agro radius based on size. Most modern MMORPG's steer clear of these type of environment mechanics, because they can be hell to manage. 

    I got money all that will be magically carbon copied into Pantheon, because it provides a lot of the framework for pulling and splitting along with tanking effectively to counteract push on big mobs.


    Gdemami[Deleted User]Nanfoodle
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    These last few posts have been truly hilarious.

    EverQuest was developed on the engine of a 3d tank game in the mid 90s. Pantheon bears no resemblance other than in design, which predates even EQ. You would be better off saying that both Pantheon and EQ are emulating MUDs from the '90s.

    I've seen that character model clipping revealing eyes, teeth and other internal objects in countless games.

    Thanks for the laugh, though.
    svann[Deleted User]jpedrote52NanfoodleSlyLoKdcutbi001


  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Quillim said:
    Dullahan said:
    Pay no attention to mr trollolol. Nothing in unreal can't be done in unity. It's just that unreal is easier to make look good out of the box.

    That's all fine and good... but what they are showing in their streams is the Everquest 1 game itself with Pantheon-specific mods(i.e. better character models/animation, different spells/abilities/button windows, etc). It may use Unity for the resources, they may be updating certain things in their own way, but the codebase they're running is EQ1, through and through.



    Multiple time I've stated I would be happy with EQ 1 with better graphics.


    Telling me that is what is actually happening is the opposite of discouraging.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • MensurMensur Member RarePosts: 1,183
    its alpha chile the buck out..

    mmorpg junkie since 1999



  • HoopdyDooHoopdyDoo Member UncommonPosts: 22
    I'd much rather play a game with meaningful, groupcentric content then a claymation flashy lights shitshow.


    Siug
  • tarodintarodin Member UncommonPosts: 128
    Perfect graphics make your mind work less and your imagination dont work.

    Not perfect graphics forces your mind to work to make a better perception about what you see and it translates into a better memories.

    Check this video: 
    GdemamiDullahanRidelynn[Deleted User]Mikeha
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    Quillim said:
    Dullahan said:
    Pay no attention to mr trollolol. Nothing in unreal can't be done in unity. It's just that unreal is easier to make look good out of the box.

    That's all fine and good... but what they are showing in their streams is the Everquest 1 game itself with Pantheon-specific mods(i.e. better character models/animation, different spells/abilities/button windows, etc). It may use Unity for the resources, they may be updating certain things in their own way, but the codebase they're running is EQ1, through and through.


    Are you actually serious?
    I want some of the stuff you are smoking.

    If you really want to troll at least you should say they are using Vanguard Engine as it is Brad most recent game, it would be less obvious you are taking the piss.

    Either way Visual Realm cannot use EQ or Vanguard engine as they are Day Break property not Brad McQuaid personal property, get a clue dude.

    svann

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Nope...keywords>>>MAKES SENSE.

    Any idea is doable if the game supports the plausible idea that it makes sense.Yes i could explain this further using about 5 paragraphs but i won't,i hope i made it clear my thought on the idea.

    Example the mere fact we have magic is NOT realistic but it is when designed to portray that very idea.How can i make it any more obvious?Well think of it this way,the game in no sense what so ever supports modern mechanical ideas,so if we all of a sudden see a Lambourghini racing past a Mage,it would look retarded...correct?

    Too often people take a word and nail it down to one meaning,example "realistic",i would rather use the term PLAUSIBLE which enforces the phrase "making sense".
    [Deleted User]Gdemami

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    As well,i should also point out that just because i liked playing a game does not mean i support everything it does,EVERY single game including ones i endorsed have flaws but luckily some  games just do some things really well which entices me to play them.
    Some games actually,at least imo do NOTHING well and some do very little well.Yes even a SIMPLE game can be good to play ,it does not have to be super complex even though sometimes i give that impression.
    I just use my MANY years of experience that allows me to judge weather a developer is just cutting corners to cost effectively get a shotty game out OR if they actually put in some real effort to make a quality game.Point being,i am not looking for perfection or realistic, i am looking for PLAUSIBLE realism and EFFORT.

    It is no different than your boss at work,his  long experience will tell him right away if you are any good as an employee or if you have some potential.
    Gdemami

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • MaximusNovaMaximusNova Member UncommonPosts: 27
    If i had to chose btw Graph and content i would go for content every day. 
    If you look at these modern day mmo`s they can barley hit 60 fps in crowded areas
    Pantheon want to have a stable frame-rate even with 30-40+ people on the screen.
    After all Pantheon is focusing on group content.   
    Gdemamitimtrack
Sign In or Register to comment.