I have to laugh at any old MMO gamer saying standards have been lowered. No games today get away with horrendous launches like we had back then. Most early access games today launch with a more intact more stable product than games like SWG, EVE, AO etc... did back then. That's just a hilarious statement.
So much delusion. This can't be a serious post.
I dont know if its more stable but I will say as an early access player, they often are very stable about 1 year in.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I have to laugh at any old MMO gamer saying standards have been lowered. No games today get away with horrendous launches like we had back then. Most early access games today launch with a more intact more stable product than games like SWG, EVE, AO etc... did back then. That's just a hilarious statement.
So much delusion. This can't be a serious post.
Nope I'm serious, can you point me to a modern game that did well with a launch as close to as bad as SWGs or AO's? OR even a modern game that released in close to that kind of state?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have to laugh at any old MMO gamer saying standards have been lowered. No games today get away with horrendous launches like we had back then. Most early access games today launch with a more intact more stable product than games like SWG, EVE, AO etc... did back then. That's just a hilarious statement.
So much delusion. This can't be a serious post.
I dont know if its more stable but I will say as an early access player, they often are very stable about 1 year in.
Heh I just used EA games as a way to make a dig at the types of launches we had back in the day. By today's standards they'd be no different than those EA games. Incomplete features, myriad of bugs and issues, barely or not working at all for the first week of access.
That kind of thing is highly damning for a modern game. Yet we ate it up back in the day. I'm still an SWG fanboi, that doesn't mean I can't see the truth in the state of that game as well as others at the time.
Post edited by Distopia on
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have to laugh at any old MMO gamer saying standards have been lowered. No games today get away with horrendous launches like we had back then. Most early access games today launch with a more intact more stable product than games like SWG, EVE, AO etc... did back then. That's just a hilarious statement.
Several old games had the worse launches, MMO's were known to be broken for long times until stuff normalized.
But that's a different sphere from Early Access, the released games it's just a first impact.
I have to laugh at any old MMO gamer saying standards have been lowered. No games today get away with horrendous launches like we had back then. Most early access games today launch with a more intact more stable product than games like SWG, EVE, AO etc... did back then. That's just a hilarious statement.
Several old games had the worse launches, MMO's were known to be broken for long times until stuff normalized.
But that's a different sphere from Early Access, the released games it's just a first impact.
I think people just look at it differently today because they're told they're buying an incomplete game. LIke I said above in a lot of ways those older games would be considered no different than EA games of today. They'd probably get worse treatment actually for claiming to be in a complete state.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Launches always go poorly. Never been at the launch of a game where the release wasn't buggy/laggy/hailed by it's community as the worst launch ever. Hell most major expansions end up like that even.
I don't mind early access as long as it's the Life is Feudal route of "pay once and play forever" and not the Pathfinder Online route of "Pay 15$ a month to play a tenth of a finished product."
Also there needs to be a wipe between early access and release. Having some kind of reward is fine. Giving people years to build resources in a half finished product just screws over anyone who actually wants to get in at the start but expects the game to actually be fun.
I played ESO at launch. I didn't encounter that glitch at all so it sounds more like a minor problem then some wide sweeping "the game is unplayable" type of catastrophic launch. Glitches happen though.
I played ESO at launch. I didn't encounter that glitch at all so it sounds more like a minor problem then some wide sweeping "the game is unplayable" type of catastrophic launch. Glitches happen though.
Agreed...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have to laugh at any old MMO gamer saying standards have been lowered. No games today get away with horrendous launches like we had back then. Most early access games today launch with a more intact more stable product than games like SWG, EVE, AO etc... did back then. That's just a hilarious statement.
So much delusion. This can't be a serious post.
Nope I'm serious, can you point me to a modern game that did well with a launch as close to as bad as SWGs or AO's? OR even a modern game that released in close to that kind of state?
Elder Scrolls Online (modern game)
Then we have older games launches that just... well... worked (ragnarok online, lineage 2, everquest, ect...).
My point was about what happens to games that launch bad, those that did back then got away with it, we ate them up, some are still going strong today or are considered genre masterworks.
Fast forward....What happened to AOC, WAR, and a number of others? Many couldn't maintain a sub based model because they didn't offer enough content, had severe issues (AOC/WAR). etc.... Even ESO was forced to change to a B2P model, because standards today are higher for what people will pay monthly for.
The majority don't play EA games today either, That audience is still drastically smaller than is made out to be. These games also get lambasted if they attempt to make ongoing money from these EA projects. Look at what happened to Pathfinder, look at the outrage at ark. DO I need mention SOTA?
Sorry I will not buy the idea that overall standards are lower today. What do we consider games that come out like SWG, AO and EVE did? Early access, or alphas. Back then that was considered a complete game, and studios got away with it.... While they didn't even have main functions active like in SWG at launch, the Jedi system, Vehicles, BGs that never worked. AO and EVE were even greater shells at release.
Your response to that point is a glitch in one game lmao.....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If you were following a MMORPG in early access AND it was already persistent, would you keep following it and wait for commercial launch or start playing now?
Personally, if it's persistent (i.e. no more wipes) and / or taking money (via cash shop or subscription) I consider it launched and will judge it as such (and no, I don't give a **** if the Devs are still calling it 'Alpha'), so really, like any launched game, it depends on the quailty of the product at that point.
If you were following a MMORPG in early access AND it was already persistent, would you keep following it and wait for commercial launch or start playing now?
I would typically wait, often times I won't play a game till at least a few months after official launch, or depending on the game, it's reviews and their payment model, till their starry eyed dreams of fleecing their players die in the all consuming flames of F2P (like TERA, for example).
It's a players market right now, there are tons upon tons of games out there right now, I can afford to be picky and particular in what I want from a game.
As such I don't feel any driving need to jump into a game before it's ready.
@Distopia - The common theme of most of Vardahoth's posts is to insinuate that everything was done better back in the day, everything is terrible now, and any insinuation otherwise is beyond absurd.
And it's all the fault of those darn millennials! Obviously the primarily older people who invest in and run the companies that build MMOs have no influence over any of the issues in gaming today.
It was all sunshine and rainbows in the gaming industry until the millenials came along and ruined EVERYTHING.
---------------------
The MMO industry has made a lot of strides forward and has gotten stuck in a rut in a lot of other areas.
Some of the problems are related to a dumbing down of MMOs which seems to be done primarily for the sake of younger players. Many of the problems are related to dogmatic insistence that "That's how it's always been done and how it always should be done!" such as Vardahoth's own insistence that massively long grinds must be included in every new MMO.
The future of MMOs lies in finding out what we've done right, what we've done wrong and making games that account for these things going forward. EQ1 or Lineage 2 re-released in 2017 would be total flops. Those games were not the pinnacle of what MMOs can achieve. They were prototypes to be learned from. Most modern MMOs may not have learned the correct lessons from them but some of the changes that have been made have been very positive. I don't know about anyone else but I'm very glad some features of older MMOs such as skill decay took their appropriate place in the bin of failed mechanics.
Comments
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That kind of thing is highly damning for a modern game. Yet we ate it up back in the day. I'm still an SWG fanboi, that doesn't mean I can't see the truth in the state of that game as well as others at the time.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
But that's a different sphere from Early Access, the released games it's just a first impact.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't mind early access as long as it's the Life is Feudal route of "pay once and play forever" and not the Pathfinder Online route of "Pay 15$ a month to play a tenth of a finished product."
Also there needs to be a wipe between early access and release. Having some kind of reward is fine. Giving people years to build resources in a half finished product just screws over anyone who actually wants to get in at the start but expects the game to actually be fun.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Fast forward....What happened to AOC, WAR, and a number of others? Many couldn't maintain a sub based model because they didn't offer enough content, had severe issues (AOC/WAR). etc.... Even ESO was forced to change to a B2P model, because standards today are higher for what people will pay monthly for.
The majority don't play EA games today either, That audience is still drastically smaller than is made out to be. These games also get lambasted if they attempt to make ongoing money from these EA projects. Look at what happened to Pathfinder, look at the outrage at ark. DO I need mention SOTA?
Sorry I will not buy the idea that overall standards are lower today. What do we consider games that come out like SWG, AO and EVE did? Early access, or alphas. Back then that was considered a complete game, and studios got away with it.... While they didn't even have main functions active like in SWG at launch, the Jedi system, Vehicles, BGs that never worked. AO and EVE were even greater shells at release.
Your response to that point is a glitch in one game lmao.....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's a players market right now, there are tons upon tons of games out there right now, I can afford to be picky and particular in what I want from a game.
As such I don't feel any driving need to jump into a game before it's ready.
And it's all the fault of those darn millennials! Obviously the primarily older people who invest in and run the companies that build MMOs have no influence over any of the issues in gaming today.
It was all sunshine and rainbows in the gaming industry until the millenials came along and ruined EVERYTHING.
---------------------
The MMO industry has made a lot of strides forward and has gotten stuck in a rut in a lot of other areas.
Some of the problems are related to a dumbing down of MMOs which seems to be done primarily for the sake of younger players. Many of the problems are related to dogmatic insistence that "That's how it's always been done and how it always should be done!" such as Vardahoth's own insistence that massively long grinds must be included in every new MMO.
The future of MMOs lies in finding out what we've done right, what we've done wrong and making games that account for these things going forward. EQ1 or Lineage 2 re-released in 2017 would be total flops. Those games were not the pinnacle of what MMOs can achieve. They were prototypes to be learned from. Most modern MMOs may not have learned the correct lessons from them but some of the changes that have been made have been very positive. I don't know about anyone else but I'm very glad some features of older MMOs such as skill decay took their appropriate place in the bin of failed mechanics.